732 réponses à ce sujet

[wulf3n]

I can kinda see it from both sides, i mean i wouldn't care if Tali, was Bi ( which i still don't think is apt because your from two different species? , however if Jacob started hitting on my Male Shepard i would probably be a bit weird-ed out.

[Naltair]

HAGA NAGA wrote...
well hey. guess what, i respect you a lot more than Naltair for coming out and being that blunt about it. so there.

And to clarify for you, i never said "Bioware owes the gay community" or anything of the sort.  What i do feel they owe me as a player is an explanation (or fix) as to why i was able to romance Tali 75% of the way with my Femshep and then cut it off.  And i know some people are arguing that that 75% wasn't romantic, but rather platonic and i gotta tell ya that argument is a LOAD OF CRAP and they know it.

This is insulting I have been very clear on my stance from the beginning you just want to believe I am some kind of bigot when I am not.

[HAGA NAGA]

Naltair wrote...

I should reiterate that I am against any drastic change in a DLC for any character especially orientation which seems to be the big one. As I said before would you be happy if they decided to do this and made Jack the bisexual option?

that's not what I want personally (I want Tali), but if it made other players happy i would be all for it.  Why? because i'm a member of this community and a change like that wouldn't alter my gaming experience in the slightest unless i too decided to take advantage of another "option" in the game.

[DaeJi]

Novacain999 wrote...

And, honestly, I don't mind talking to you about this, and you haven't attacked people, you are correct, but to some degree, coming into this thread just to activly disagree and arguing constantly is trolling, if you that was your intent or not.

He isn't trolling, the original post did call for discussion on the subject. Disagreeing with having a same sex option is fine, not everyone has to agree with everyone. I just hope that BioWare hears our side over his.

[colbert123]

I find it extremely silly that people let this same sex gay/lesbian **** bother them so much. Its a game people. If you want to have sex with Tali, make a male shepard and stop spamming these forums with these useless threads. For once i'd like to see something constructive about the damn game and get a decent conversation going.

[AngryTigerP]

HAGA NAGA wrote...

LemuresXL wrote...

HAGA NAGA wrote...

Naltair wrote...

DaeJi wrote...
While Shepard's dialog isn't there, the squad's dialog is. BioWare would need to spend maybe an hour or two recording new dialog for the character, probably something they could do while working on a DLC. It's not a problem that cannot be overcome with any amount of difficulty.

Of all the DLC to make this just does not seem a good use of resources, but I understand if you disagree.

oh yes, we're all very aware that you feel this way.  i would certainly respect you more if you came right out and said "i don't want you guys to have your Femshep/Tali romance" instead of trying to beat around the bush about it.

I'll say it... I don't want a femShep and Tali romance possibility.  I'll also admit it's for selfish reasons.  I'm not saying it in any kind of hateful way though.  Part of it comes from my personality, in that I wouldn't want to date a Bi-Sexual.  Also I don't like that I've seen so many posts acting like Bioware Owes the gay community this. 
They don't owe anything.  They didn't even owe us a Tali romance at all.  I'm not saying you've acted this way at all HAGA NAGA.  To be honest I haven't read all your posts in here so I don't know. 

Also I wouldn't like the feeling that everyone in the Mass Effect universe is Bi.  People have asked for gay romance with Jack, Miranda, Garrus and Thane also. 

That being said... if Tali ends up having a lesbian also romance included...  I'm not gonna freak out.  Whatever *shrug*

well hey. guess what, i respect you a lot more than Naltair for coming out and being that blunt about it. so there.

And to clarify for you, i never said "Bioware owes the gay community" or anything of the sort.  What i do feel they owe me as a player is an explanation (or fix) as to why i was able to romance Tali 75% of the way with my Femshep and then cut it off.  And i know some people are arguing that that 75% wasn't romantic, but rather platonic and i gotta tell ya that argument is a LOAD OF CRAP and they know it.

Your notion is quite silly, really. I mean... the part that really bugs me is your conspiracy theory-generating scheme, where Bioware whitewashed (straightwashed?) the game where it was ALWAYS MEANT TO contain gay relations. If Bioware had the ability to release a game with purely gay romantic interests (and not simply 'more tolerable' bisexual ones), what would stop them from going through with making Tali bisexual? Absolutely nothing... except if her character was always meant to be (that is, was WRITTEN TO BE) straight.

I would actually like to see ME3 feature a flirtation attempt by femsheps where Tali responds with, "Uh... Commander... I'm sorry, but that's not exactly the way I fly." (okay, that's not how she would say it, but you get the idea). Not to spite you, but so that it is explicitly stated that she isn't bi, as anything less than that will leave individuals such as yourself clamoring for an abuse of the creative process to satisfy what YOU think the game should have been like.

(inb4 Haga ignores my post except for the part that she thinks makes it look like I'm homophobic)

[Naltair]

Maybe the new DLC character Kasumi will be bisexual? That could kill at least one bird.

[HAGA NAGA]

Naltair wrote...

HAGA NAGA wrote...
well hey. guess what, i respect you a lot more than Naltair for coming out and being that blunt about it. so there.

And to clarify for you, i never said "Bioware owes the gay community" or anything of the sort.  What i do feel they owe me as a player is an explanation (or fix) as to why i was able to romance Tali 75% of the way with my Femshep and then cut it off.  And i know some people are arguing that that 75% wasn't romantic, but rather platonic and i gotta tell ya that argument is a LOAD OF CRAP and they know it.

This is insulting I have been very clear on my stance from the beginning you just want to believe I am some kind of bigot when I am not.

i never said you were a bigot. i actually seriously doubt that you are. i just think you're causing trouble in here behind the guise of "a nice guy whose interested in facts"

[N30795]

People can ask for romance with nearly everyone - or everything - and hell, it's okay around here. If you shout enough, you'll even get what you were asking for (Tali, Garrus). But if you start saying you want a F/F or M/M romance, then it seems that you are really really wrong. It begins to be infuriating.



I really missed a Tali-FShep option in the game...

[Scire The Warden]

Haga Naga, it's not just you defining your gaming experience through options. Bioware defines it through the characters, story, etc. I could make a separate thread arguing why i should be allowed to rampage through the normandy killing my crew with the "option" logic.  Or why I can't persuade Jacob to become a serial killer and Miranda to get a sex change.  Bioware creates the characters, not you.

Modifié par Scire The Warden, 03 février 2010 - 11:09 .

[Novacain999]

DaeJi wrote...

Novacain999 wrote...

And, honestly, I don't mind talking to you about this, and you haven't attacked people, you are correct, but to some degree, coming into this thread just to activly disagree and arguing constantly is trolling, if you that was your intent or not.

He isn't trolling, the original post did call for discussion on the subject. Disagreeing with having a same sex option is fine, not everyone has to agree with everyone. I just hope that BioWare hears our side over his.

Hmm. Fair enough I guess. It seems like our side doesn't have that many people behind it, so I'm guessing it's unlikely. Can only keep talking I guess.

I still would like an outright response to how it'd be hurting the character to have Tali be open to romancing a female Shepard. Like I've said, I think her stating that she was just overly nervous about pursuing not only a member of the same species, but also of the same gender, would be a completely rational reason for it, that wouldn't hurt Tali as a character a bit.

[HAGA NAGA]

colbert123 wrote...

I find it extremely silly that people let this same sex gay/lesbian **** bother them so much. Its a game people. If you want to have sex with Tali, make a male shepard and stop spamming these forums with these useless threads. For once i'd like to see something constructive about the damn game and get a decent conversation going.

lol. yeah coming in here and making a comment like that is really gonna slow the thread down. nicely done.

[Naltair]

I am just posting in a thread which is interesting to me, for the implications it could have on story design and fan motivations. ME2 has quite a bit of fan service in it and I can only suspect that ME3 will have even more and if they decide to open that path to female Shepherds at that time then so be it. I don't think a DLC is a good way to handle it, personally if it can be explained in ME3 then that would be better, since it would hopefully be a better treatment than voice these lines and slap this into the game.



My personal stance is that if they do this they need to do this for men as well, and I am not gay I just like equality.

[Kolaris8472]

AngryTigerP wrote...
I would actually like to see ME3 feature a flirtation attempt by femsheps where Tali responds with, "Uh... Commander... I'm sorry, but that's not exactly the way I fly." (okay, that's not how she would say it, but you get the idea). Not to spite you, but so that it is explicitly stated that she isn't bi, as anything less than that will leave individuals such as yourself clamoring for an abuse of the creative process to satisfy what YOU think the game should have been like.

Part of why I've been arguing in this thread is to try to figure out how ANYONE saying that in-game could still be in-character. 

How can anyone argue that physical genders would play a role in an extra-species relationship? The connection would have to be mental and emotional, ergo my confusion over why Tali picks up Male Shep when all communication between Tali and Shephard, whether Male or Female, has been exactly the same up to that point. 

[AngryTigerP]

N30795 wrote...

People can ask for romance with nearly everyone - or everything - and hell, it's okay around here. If you shout enough, you'll even get what you were asking for (Tali, Garrus). But if you start saying you want a F/F or M/M romance, then it seems that you are really really wrong. It begins to be infuriating.

I really missed a Tali-FShep option in the game...

"Hey, I want Bioware to dedicate resources to release downloadable content (that has to apply to a wide swath of the fanbase) featuring a change in established story because I want to bang a straight chick!"

If you changed the thread title to Jack, Jacob, Miranda, Garrus, or Thane, I'd be in here, just as against it.

Bioware chose to have straight squadmates. It is outrageous to think that there should be DLC dedicated to changing their orientations for a relatively small (but very vocal) fanbase that wanted EXISTING characters to be modified in their personalities. Hell, if Bioware HAD gay squaddies, and someone was like, "Wow, that gay Turian guy is pretty hot! I wish my Femshep could do him! BIOWARE APPEASE ME!", I would be just as against it.

Modifié par AngryTigerP, 03 février 2010 - 11:14 .

[Scire The Warden]

Kolaris, because clearly, the quarians have male/female genders which look very similar to humans.

[Novacain999]

Naltair wrote...

Maybe the new DLC character Kasumi will be bisexual? That could kill at least one bird.

no, it really wouldn't. The comment is about Tali, a character we have known for a long while, and someone who we have a previous connection with, and someone who a good portion of the people here think has enough evidence to show an attraction between our female Shepards. Throwing another bisexual character at us isn't what we want, we want the character we've grown to love and feel is interested in our character to be an option.

Mini rant over. I'm heading out, i'll come back to this topic later

[AngryTigerP]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...
I would actually like to see ME3 feature a flirtation attempt by femsheps where Tali responds with, "Uh... Commander... I'm sorry, but that's not exactly the way I fly." (okay, that's not how she would say it, but you get the idea). Not to spite you, but so that it is explicitly stated that she isn't bi, as anything less than that will leave individuals such as yourself clamoring for an abuse of the creative process to satisfy what YOU think the game should have been like.

Part of why I've been arguing in this thread is to try to figure out how ANYONE saying that in-game could still be in-character. 

How can anyone argue that physical genders would play a role in an extra-species relationship? The connection would have to be mental and emotional, ergo my confusion over why Tali picks up Male Shep when all communication between Tali and Shephard, whether Male or Female, has been exactly the same up to that point. 

I didn't SAY that gender matters. I said that the personality as established by the writers a year and a half ago (maybe more, maybe less) matters, not the outcry of some fans a week after the game's launch and two months after its final publishing.

[N30795]

Don't pull that "Bioware makes the character"-crap.



Characters are changed because of fans (or because of clothes, if you think of Miranda's ex-blond hair).



Look at Garrus or Tali: what the hell did say in ME1 that they were into interspecies relationship ? Nothing.



Then, a lot of complains for a Tali-mance/Garrus-mance, and bam, this character is changed from a friendly squadmate into a potential love interest.



Female players want to have more straight romances ? Let's design the Drell to look attractive.



Etc.



So Tali is not a romance interest in ME2, I can get over that.



Why not make her one in ME3 ?

[Naltair]

Kolaris8472 wrote...
Part of why I've been arguing in this thread is to try to figure out how ANYONE saying that in-game could still be in-character. 

How can anyone argue that physical genders would play a role in an extra-species relationship? The connection would have to be mental and emotional, ergo my confusion over why Tali picks up Male Shep when all communication between Tali and Shephard, whether Male or Female, has been exactly the same up to that point. 

That is a rather high level way of looking at it.

But we apply female traits to tali, we consider her a woman, we being the fans.  Just as we consider Garrus to be male, even if we really have no female turians to compare against.  They could look exactly alike.  So as the fans and general populace it makes sense that we would apply gender roles to other species even if it does not make total sense.  Within the ME universe this idea is reinforced and so is correct to apply gender specific titles to other species and is why Garrus is not available for a male Shepard.  Even if he is not attracted to humans and just Shepard, in some small way this seems more right to him than it would with a male Shepard.

Same goes for Tali, as written in game.

[DaeJi]

Naltair wrote...

My personal stance is that if they do this they need to do this for men as well, and I am not gay I just like equality.

I agree with this 100%. Personally, I would like to see Jacob and Thane for male Shepards, Tali and Jack for females. That gives each gender a human and alien same sex option, so Jacob and Tali are obvious choices, and Jack and Thane speak to me more than Garrus and Miranda.

[HAGA NAGA]

AngryTigerP wrote...

N30795 wrote...

People can ask for romance with nearly everyone - or everything - and hell, it's okay around here. If you shout enough, you'll even get what you were asking for (Tali, Garrus). But if you start saying you want a F/F or M/M romance, then it seems that you are really really wrong. It begins to be infuriating.

I really missed a Tali-FShep option in the game...

"Hey, I want Bioware to dedicate resources to release downloadable content (that has to apply to a wide swath of the fanbase) featuring a change in established story because I want to bang a straight chick!"

If you changed the thread title to Jack, Jacob, Miranda, Garrus, or Thane, I'd be in here, just as against it.

Bioware chose to have straight squadmates. It is outrageous to think that there should be DLC dedicated to changing their orientations for a relatively small (but very vocal) fanbase that wanted EXISTING characters to be modified in their personalities. Hell, if Bioware HAD gay squaddies, and someone was like, "Wow, that gay Turian guy is pretty hot! I wish my Femshep could do him! BIOWARE APPEASE ME!", I would be just as against it.

you're not a very good listener (reader, whatever). the majority of us are arguing that the orientation is already in-game and the conclusion of that content is missing.  you keep insisting that what we are trying to do is get Bioware to change Tali from straight to bisexual, which is wrong. we are arguing that they should give us the remaining 25% of a romance that is in the game. clear enough for ya?

[Heavensrun]

I am another person who is sad that Tali wasn't an option for femsheps, but as someone who has fallen for a straight member of the same gender in the past, I know well the sting of loving someone that isn't interested in your own gender.



Still, maybe she could still be swayed in ME3. I wouldn't hold out hope, though.



I do think it's a shame that at least some of the clamoring for same-sex love interests could have been assuaged by making Tali and Garrus bi. (or situationally gay, as they both have reasons to feel closer to Shepard than anybody else)

[N30795]

Miranda is the poster girl from the very beginning.

Poster girl are never lesbians.

Damn... =[

[sliverofamoon]

As to the original topic..... Probably ONLY going to play a male-shep in ME from now on, JUST because it's the only way I can romance her. Honestly, I don't care if I have to play opposite gender, as long as I have my Tali-mance. The fact that I am a woman irl, and bi-sexual is beside the point to me. As long as I GET to romance Tali, and keep her in my squad, I don't care about the rest. That... may, also have something to do with the fact that I am bi-sexual to begin with... I don't know. I'd RATHER play a fem-shep for immersion reasons, but, meh. *shrugs*



I'm just happy I have the opportunity at all!