732 réponses à ce sujet

[Scire The Warden]

Ok, I will be open minded. Please give me reasons you think that Tali wants to have a relationship with FemShep.  It's getting to the point where i can't respond to everyone in time.

Modifié par Scire The Warden, 04 février 2010 - 12:40 .

[HAGA NAGA]

MagicianCamille wrote...

You say you "care" about Tali but you essentially want to change who she is. If you cared about Tali you'd accept that she is straight, and not want her to be written as a bisexual. There are 3 exclusive FemShep romances, and 3 exclusive MaleShep romances. Bisexual Tali would have to mean a bisexual Thane, or Garrus, or Jacob. How many bisexual people are we gonna have on this ship?

Forget about the Reapers, let's just break down into random pairs and start going at it, we'll switch partners every time EDI stops the music.

um. we're arguing over whether or not she is "straight". read. it helps

[MagicianCamille]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

MagicianCamille wrote...

You say you "care" about Tali but you essentially want to change who she is. If you cared about Tali you'd accept that she is straight, and not want her to be written as a bisexual. There are 3 exclusive FemShep romances, and 3 exclusive MaleShep romances. Bisexual Tali would have to mean a bisexual Thane, or Garrus, or Jacob. How many bisexual people are we gonna have on this ship?

Forget about the Reapers, let's just break down into random pairs and start going at it, we'll switch partners every time EDI stops the music.

I'm sorry, but LOL. First you say we shouldn't be trying to change a character when she's never stated her personal preferences, then you say she can't be bisexual because of unrelated game balancing concerns? How would Tali feel about not being able to care for someone because some Shephard that DOES NOT EXIST in that playthrough might not have enough romantic options? 

I'm sorry, but LOL right back at you. You put words in my mouth, I didn't say why things couldn't be any certain way, I just said they aren't, and showed how other things would have to change to make them that way, and the absurdity of it all.

Secondly, Tali is a fictional character. I was mocking the OP for saying she "cares" about Tali. I am now mocking you for suggesting Tali is capable of feeling anything as a fictional character.

She is written straight. This is evident by the fact that she only romances Male Shepards. Discussion over.

[ERJAK2]

MagicianCamille wrote...

You say you "care" about Tali but you essentially want to change who she is. If you cared about Tali you'd accept that she is straight, and not want her to be written as a bisexual. There are 3 exclusive FemShep romances, and 3 exclusive MaleShep romances. Bisexual Tali would have to mean a bisexual Thane, or Garrus, or Jacob. How many bisexual people are we gonna have on this ship?

Forget about the Reapers, let's just break down into random pairs and start going at it, we'll switch partners every time EDI stops the music.

Bring the femshep romances in again. I dare you. Those sorry excuses for dialogue choices don't count anymore than Kelly did. You want to talk fairness? Maleshep gets 2 beautiful human women and a gorgeous quarian female.

Femshep gets a disfigured TURIAN, a DIEING lizardman, and a human male that's blah.

[Scire The Warden]

ERJAK, that's a perfectly valid argument. FemShep should have better options. Agreed. Doesn't mean tali should be one of them.

Although i'm not sure jack counts as a beautiful woman, what with the messed up attitude and all.

Modifié par Scire The Warden, 04 février 2010 - 12:46 .

[Kolaris8472]

Scire The Warden wrote...

Ok, I will be open minded. Please give me reasons you think that Tali wants to have a relationship with FemShep.  It's getting to the point where i can't respond to everyone in time.

There are two ways I look at it.  First, that there were enough hints between a Tali and Maleshep to spark a relationship, hints that are exactly the same with a Femshep. Then you'd have to question why Tali would specifically not want a relationship with a Human that's Female, a position I can't justify with anything in-game. 

Or, you can look at the way the relationship was escalating (Idolized in ME1, Constantly on the mind while on Haelstrom, trusted on a level she's never had with anyone, shared the ordeal with her Father ) and then realizing that because it is now rather unlikely she's romanceable in ME3, this relationship just hit some sort of invisible wall with no explanation within her character. 

Modifié par Kolaris8472, 04 février 2010 - 12:48 .

[MagicianCamille]

ERJAK2 wrote...

MagicianCamille wrote...

You say you "care" about Tali but you essentially want to change who she is. If you cared about Tali you'd accept that she is straight, and not want her to be written as a bisexual. There are 3 exclusive FemShep romances, and 3 exclusive MaleShep romances. Bisexual Tali would have to mean a bisexual Thane, or Garrus, or Jacob. How many bisexual people are we gonna have on this ship?

Forget about the Reapers, let's just break down into random pairs and start going at it, we'll switch partners every time EDI stops the music.

Bring the femshep romances in again. I dare you. Those sorry excuses for dialogue choices don't count anymore than Kelly did. You want to talk fairness? Maleshep gets 2 beautiful human women and a gorgeous quarian female.

Femshep gets a disfigured TURIAN, a DIEING lizardman, and a human male that's blah.

Miranda looks like a cyborg and has the personality to boot. Jack is a tatted up baldy, and Tali is fully covered, has a glask mask, and an inhuman amount of fingers and toes.

And Jacob is meh? Come on, even I got wood when I saw that chest shot.

[ERJAK2]

Scire The Warden wrote...

Ok, I will be open minded. Please give me reasons you think that Tali wants to have a relationship with FemShep.  It's getting to the point where i can't respond to everyone in time.

We really don't give a flying hanar what you personally believe about Tali's character, we're stating our interest in a female romance option for her, while simultaneously cutting down the incorrect things you say. The goals not to convince you, it's to CORRECT you.

[Radahldo]

MagicianCamille wrote...


She is written straight. This is evident by the fact that she only romances Male Shepards. Discussion over.

Because of IRL societal reasons, an exclusive F/F pairing is just hugely unlikely to recieve funding.   Thats the only reason.  She wasn't written straight; she's written platonic, vaguely flirty--same exact dialouge for either gender-- and then  she comits to a relationship with MaleShep.  Thats it.  It's moreso that they decided to write a relationship for MaleShep, than some serious, long-lasting fact of Tali's sexuality. It was fan-service from the very start. The exlcusion of her being bi, though, is just without explanation. It's not precluded by a fact-- simply, its not in the game.. for no resaon.  Both male and femshep have the same hurdles to overcome, but, for whatever reason an additional barrier was put in front of femshep.

[DaeJi]

Scire The Warden wrote...

ERJAK, that's a perfectly valid argument. FemShep should have better options. Agreed. Doesn't mean tali should be one of them.

Although i'm not sure jack counts as a beautiful woman, what with the messed up attitude and all.

Giving females Jack would be the same as giving females Tali; BioWare would need to unlock the romance dialog for them and have Hale record some new lines. Why is Jack a viable option but not Tali?

[HAGA NAGA]

ERJAK2 wrote...

MagicianCamille wrote...

You say you "care" about Tali but you essentially want to change who she is. If you cared about Tali you'd accept that she is straight, and not want her to be written as a bisexual. There are 3 exclusive FemShep romances, and 3 exclusive MaleShep romances. Bisexual Tali would have to mean a bisexual Thane, or Garrus, or Jacob. How many bisexual people are we gonna have on this ship?

Forget about the Reapers, let's just break down into random pairs and start going at it, we'll switch partners every time EDI stops the music.

Bring the femshep romances in again. I dare you. Those sorry excuses for dialogue choices don't count anymore than Kelly did. You want to talk fairness? Maleshep gets 2 beautiful human women and a gorgeous quarian female.

Femshep gets a disfigured TURIAN, a DIEING lizardman, and a human male that's blah.

it's a load of crap. Femsheps got the shaft soooooo bad in ME2.  And when you consider the FACT that we were fed 75% of the Tali romance and had it suddenly "blanked out" the list you just threw out gets even worse.

[MagicianCamille]

Radahldo wrote...Because of IRL societal reasons, an exclusive F/F pairing is just hugely unlikely to recieve funding.   Thats the only reason. 

Juhani in KOTOR. Enough said.

[Kolaris8472]

MagicianCamille wrote...

ERJAK2 wrote...

MagicianCamille wrote...

You say you "care" about Tali but you essentially want to change who she is. If you cared about Tali you'd accept that she is straight, and not want her to be written as a bisexual. There are 3 exclusive FemShep romances, and 3 exclusive MaleShep romances. Bisexual Tali would have to mean a bisexual Thane, or Garrus, or Jacob. How many bisexual people are we gonna have on this ship?

Forget about the Reapers, let's just break down into random pairs and start going at it, we'll switch partners every time EDI stops the music.

Bring the femshep romances in again. I dare you. Those sorry excuses for dialogue choices don't count anymore than Kelly did. You want to talk fairness? Maleshep gets 2 beautiful human women and a gorgeous quarian female.

Femshep gets a disfigured TURIAN, a DIEING lizardman, and a human male that's blah.

Miranda looks like a cyborg and has the personality to boot. Jack is a tatted up baldy, and Tali is fully covered, has a glask mask, and an inhuman amount of fingers and toes.

And Jacob is meh? Come on, even I got wood when I saw that chest shot.

Err, what? So you came to mock people trying to discuss a fictional character's personality and identity, then staid to get an erection over a fictional character's bare chest? 

[MagicianCamille]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

MagicianCamille wrote...

ERJAK2 wrote...

MagicianCamille wrote...

You say you "care" about Tali but you essentially want to change who she is. If you cared about Tali you'd accept that she is straight, and not want her to be written as a bisexual. There are 3 exclusive FemShep romances, and 3 exclusive MaleShep romances. Bisexual Tali would have to mean a bisexual Thane, or Garrus, or Jacob. How many bisexual people are we gonna have on this ship?

Forget about the Reapers, let's just break down into random pairs and start going at it, we'll switch partners every time EDI stops the music.

Bring the femshep romances in again. I dare you. Those sorry excuses for dialogue choices don't count anymore than Kelly did. You want to talk fairness? Maleshep gets 2 beautiful human women and a gorgeous quarian female.

Femshep gets a disfigured TURIAN, a DIEING lizardman, and a human male that's blah.

Miranda looks like a cyborg and has the personality to boot. Jack is a tatted up baldy, and Tali is fully covered, has a glask mask, and an inhuman amount of fingers and toes.

And Jacob is meh? Come on, even I got wood when I saw that chest shot.

Err, what? So you came to mock people trying to discuss a fictional character's personality and identity, then staid to get an erection over a fictional character's bare chest? 

Pretty much. This entire "discussion" is absurd. Why not be absurd myself? 

I know you think this is really important, but the developers of the game obviously disagree with you. Nothing to fight for at that point.

[Radahldo]

MagicianCamille wrote...

Radahldo wrote...Because of IRL societal reasons, an exclusive F/F pairing is just hugely unlikely to recieve funding.   Thats the only reason. 

Juhani in KOTOR. Enough said.

I actually said a  lot in that post, which Juhani's existence doesn't fully answer.

Modifié par Radahldo, 04 février 2010 - 12:54 .

[HAGA NAGA]

Radahldo wrote...

MagicianCamille wrote...


She is written straight. This is evident by the fact that she only romances Male Shepards. Discussion over.

Because of IRL societal reasons, an exclusive F/F pairing is just hugely unlikely to recieve funding.   Thats the only reason.  She wasn't written straight; she's written platonic, vaguely flirty--same exact dialouge for either gender-- and then  she comits to a relationship with MaleShep.  Thats it.  It's moreso that they decided to write a relationship for MaleShep, than some serious, long-lasting fact of Tali's sexuality. It was fan-service from the very start. The exlcusion of her being bi, though, is just without explanation. It's not precluded by a fact-- simply, its not in the game.. for no resaon.  Both male and femshep have the same hurdles to overcome, but, for whatever reason an additional barrier was put in front of femshep.

i'm tellin ya. it was probably something stupid like, they had all the content ready to go and EA made them take it out at the last minute to avoid another bad spot on Fox News or something, i dunno. It would explain why they didn't have time to go back and recreate an actual "platonic" relationship with Femshep. 

[Scire The Warden]

Kolaris, I accept those are strong points, and if Tali were an asari, yes it would be absurd. However, the way i see it is that Tali is a female who is attracted to quarian males, and that because humans/quarians are so similar in this respect she is attracted to MaleShep and not FemShep. The same way a human male could be attracted to a human woman because she is nice and not another male because he is nice.

[ERJAK2]

MagicianCamille wrote...

ERJAK2 wrote...

MagicianCamille wrote...

You say you "care" about Tali but you essentially want to change who she is. If you cared about Tali you'd accept that she is straight, and not want her to be written as a bisexual. There are 3 exclusive FemShep romances, and 3 exclusive MaleShep romances. Bisexual Tali would have to mean a bisexual Thane, or Garrus, or Jacob. How many bisexual people are we gonna have on this ship?

Forget about the Reapers, let's just break down into random pairs and start going at it, we'll switch partners every time EDI stops the music.

Bring the femshep romances in again. I dare you. Those sorry excuses for dialogue choices don't count anymore than Kelly did. You want to talk fairness? Maleshep gets 2 beautiful human women and a gorgeous quarian female.

Femshep gets a disfigured TURIAN, a DIEING lizardman, and a human male that's blah.

Miranda looks like a cyborg and has the personality to boot. Jack is a tatted up baldy, and Tali is fully covered, has a glask mask, and an inhuman amount of fingers and toes.

And Jacob is meh? Come on, even I got wood when I saw that chest shot.

Miranda is actually very sweet, very intelligent, Jack is still very attractive(I swear her face is modeled after angelina jolie), has a compelling personality, Even Tali's covering is beautiful, and she's as kind a person as you could possibly be and not die doing the crazy **** shepard does everyday. Beyond that, the pure devotion that she would have to show to be in a relationship with any human is heartwarming.

Also, none of them are dieing from an incurable, untreatable disease, and none of them have huge chunks of their head missiing. 

[Lord Atlia]

Scire The Warden wrote...

ERJAK, that's a perfectly valid argument. FemShep should have better options. Agreed. Doesn't mean tali should be one of them.

Although i'm not sure jack counts as a beautiful woman, what with the messed up attitude and all.

Jack is hideous and shouldn't be mentioned within 3 paragraphs of the goddess.  Good to see the 2 most active threads are Tali threads.

[Scire The Warden]

ERJAK, whether or not one group of relationships vs another group of relationships is better is completly subjective and cannot be used as evidence to argue your case.

[Keltoris]

HAGA NAGA wrote...

it's a load of crap. Femsheps got the shaft soooooo bad in ME2.  And when you consider the FACT that we were fed 75% of the Tali romance and had it suddenly "blanked out" the list you just threw outgets even worse.

Hehey, we have a winner.

I remember thinking on my Femshep as Tali started talking about suit linking and trust "Hmm, maybe Casey got paid by Chris to mess with us." Nope.

[Naltair]

ERJAK2 wrote...
Bring the femshep romances in again. I dare you. Those sorry excuses for dialogue choices don't count anymore than Kelly did. You want to talk fairness? Maleshep gets 2 beautiful human women and a gorgeous quarian female.

Femshep gets a disfigured TURIAN, a DIEING lizardman, and a human male that's blah.

But those are your opinions not facts, you don't like the romance choices, that does not in turn make them facts that they are any worse or better than the male alternative.  I think the most telling comment was Casey Hudson in the Best Buy chat session when he stated there are no same sex relationships in ME1 or ME2; meaning the dev team does not consider asari to be female.

I sympathize with your notion that you believe she should be, but the evidence is not in your favor.  On top of that people don;t have to explicitly state they feel one way sexually to fully express it and the notion that it should be laid out plain as day is pretty funny to me.  Why her and not anyone else?  Should every character first thing tell you:

"By the way Shepherd I only like girl, or boys, or hanar, or all things?"

 Is this legitimate dialog for any real conversation between two friends.  I admit there may be some ambiguity but you are making a mountain of a mole hill and seeing things that may not really be there.  I mean I have seen people say that the hug during the Loyalty mission was romantic... seriously?


A hug standing over her dead father's body is romantic?  It can't just be two comrades/friends having a touching moment where one consoles the other.  It can't just be a moment where one person can comfort another because the other has just seen their dead parent on the ground?  But this is touted as proof that there was some ulterior secret operation to make a bisexual romance that never surfaced.

Or the fact that Kelly Chambers who seems to notice everything did not comment on any actual sexual attraction.  She may be a tertiary character but she hints at the possibility if it is there.  

I am not against the idea but I don't see it happening without overhauling several other  relationships and not just one.

Modifié par Naltair, 04 février 2010 - 01:01 .

[Scire The Warden]

What if i said that Malesheps were fed 75% of the Jacob/Thane/Garrus romance and got shafted? Isn't that the exact same logic?

[ERJAK2]

MagicianCamille wrote...

Kolaris8472 wrote...

MagicianCamille wrote...

ERJAK2 wrote...

MagicianCamille wrote...

You say you "care" about Tali but you essentially want to change who she is. If you cared about Tali you'd accept that she is straight, and not want her to be written as a bisexual. There are 3 exclusive FemShep romances, and 3 exclusive MaleShep romances. Bisexual Tali would have to mean a bisexual Thane, or Garrus, or Jacob. How many bisexual people are we gonna have on this ship?

Forget about the Reapers, let's just break down into random pairs and start going at it, we'll switch partners every time EDI stops the music.

Bring the femshep romances in again. I dare you. Those sorry excuses for dialogue choices don't count anymore than Kelly did. You want to talk fairness? Maleshep gets 2 beautiful human women and a gorgeous quarian female.

Femshep gets a disfigured TURIAN, a DIEING lizardman, and a human male that's blah.

Miranda looks like a cyborg and has the personality to boot. Jack is a tatted up baldy, and Tali is fully covered, has a glask mask, and an inhuman amount of fingers and toes.

And Jacob is meh? Come on, even I got wood when I saw that chest shot.

Err, what? So you came to mock people trying to discuss a fictional character's personality and identity, then staid to get an erection over a fictional character's bare chest? 

Pretty much. This entire "discussion" is absurd. Why not be absurd myself? 

I know you think this is really important, but the developers of the game obviously disagree with you. Nothing to fight for at that point.

How about trying to convince them it is important?

I really hope they create a female character that appeals strongly to the whole player base and is female romance only, just so I can tell the people who freak out about that(the same people who freak out about our interest in tali) to shut their whining mouth because the devs intended her to be that.

[ERJAK2]

Scire The Warden wrote...

What if i said that Malesheps were fed 75% of the Jacob/Thane/Garrus romance and got shafted? Isn't that the exact same logic?

Yes, it's sad that happened huh?