732 réponses à ce sujet

[juxtaposedjoker]

I was baffled by the suit sharing too at first. I may be wrong on this since my memory isn't the best but when you do the trial mission doesn't her aunt mention how she shared the environment with Tali's mother when she was born? This gave me the impression it was about trust and not sex. Also, the sex scene with Tali doesn't show suit sharing. So this leads me to believe it's ultimately not a sexual act.



I was rather disappointed with the fem Shep romance choices. You get the typical male soldier with a soft side cliche, a living hallucination (well that is sort of appealing! lol), or Garrus who I thought was cute but not moving. This stands in stark contrast to ME1 where the fem/fem romance was moving.



I can accept that Tali is straight it just would have been nice if there had been more options. To be truthful, her whole daddy complex sort of makes the fact she doesn't get with the fem shep make sense. Actually, now that I think about it, Tali and Miranda both have daddy issues and it's a tired device which takes something away from them as heterosexual romance choices too really.

[Maria Caliban]

RAZZberree wrote...

I don't think your wrong for feeling that way, I only don't agree with most MAKE THIS CHARACTER GAY NOW is because, well they were never gay to begin with and...well, this is where Bioware fails in my opinion as they just toss out characters who swing both ways for no reason just to make the gay/lesbian players happy, when they really should be working hard on making a strictly mxm/fxf character with a lot of depth rather than just a stupid cop out bi character.

Liara, Zevran, and Leliana were all conceived as bisexual from the start. In fact, Leliana’s back-story is about her relationship with a woman. If these characters are bisexual ‘for no reason’ then Miranda and Alistair are straight ‘for no reason.’

[Von Verrikan]

Well I'm a gay man who wanted Garrus... It's really up to the developers if they want their characters to be straight, bi, etc. We can't expect them to craft realistic reasons for each character to like us depending on sexual orientation.



I'm still surprised there is no gay content at alll in a game awash with sexuality. But whatevs. I am just happy bioware had the courage to listen to fans who wanted Garrus/Tali in the first place.

[KalosCast]

juxtaposedjoker wrote...

I was baffled by the suit sharing too at first. I may be wrong on this since my memory isn't the best but when you do the trial mission doesn't her aunt mention how she shared the environment with Tali's mother when she was born? This gave me the impression it was about trust and not sex. Also, the sex scene with Tali doesn't show suit sharing. So this leads me to believe it's ultimately not a sexual act.

It is definitely about trust, as Femshep Tali can still say she'd sync environments with you. Most sexual relationships require trust too on some level, even if it's a fling.

Modifié par KalosCast, 03 février 2010 - 08:49 .

[aaniadyen]

...Isn't Tali straight?

[RAZZberree]

tmp7704 wrote...

RAZZberree wrote...

I just need...more reasoning for someone to be gay/lesbian. It's a big choice y'know? If they had a very believable reasoning as to why Tali swung both ways then sure, I'd totally test the waters with a femShep.

I think the reasoning might be in fact she's actually entirely different species. It's kind of like, say there's a species which has females who look like pink balls and males who look like blue balls (bad pun) ... and then you go and say a heterosexual human male can only be attracted to pink balls. It's a stretch but hopefully can give the idea of what i'm getting at -- for a quarian the humans can be so different species there doesn't have to be sexual attraction there at all, or if there is any it doesn't have to be limited to any particular gender based on our own wiring.

Lol, that was a horrible but funny example. I definitely see where your coming from and I actually do agree, it's just that in most cases, the ultimate end for the relationships is...sex, in most medias. If a romance with a quarian led to a very deep and god forbid this annoying cliche, emotionally engaging relationship that didn't end in sex being it's climax, then I would be more inclined to believe that Tali being lesbian was sincere and not just a fan pleaser. For once in a game I'd like a romance that didn't seem like the only thing you were getting at was sex, like with Garrus. I loved Garrus but I just couldn't do the romance because that's all the romance talked about...sex. The preparations for it, safety issues and there's not a ton of dialogue as to why your so willing to delve into inter-species intercourse. Yes, I know that at the actual romance part Garrus says that your his only friend and you only want to be with someone you trust but...why couldn't all that have been said beforehand?

I hope I'm making myself clear, I tend to screw up my explanations...

StaR_JeS wrote...

I agree wholeheartedly with everything
you said right up until the last paragraph. I think that if they can
create beautifully crafted heteromances, then why couldn't they create
a beautifully crafted homoromance? I agree with not having a cop-out,
but I don't know if you played DA:O...I didn't think Zevran or Leliana
were cop-outs at all. While Zevran gave the impression of being easy,
he actually wasn't. You had to wait until the very end almost to get
him to admit he loved you, and if you miss the correct cue, he won't
admit it at all. If they did it for DA:O, they can certainly do it for
ME. And I'm not talking about Liara. In my mind, she doesn't really
count as a legit F/F relationship. Don't really want to go into the
reasoning as that would just create a wall of text.

Bah, I may have phrased that a little too...badly. I did play Dragon Age and I do agree that Leliana and Zevran had great romantic dialogue. The...er...god, sorry having a hard time phrasing myself correctly. My problem is that, there's about a few lines that differentiate the romance between genders, otherwise it's pretty much the same thing. Cop out was a poor choice of words (though it wasn't actually intended towards Leli and Zev). And to Maria, I know Leliana's backstory was focused around her relationshp with a certain woman, but the relationship was more about Leliana's feelings of betrayal from a woman she loved which can be taken as both platonically and romantically. Leliana to me, is more legit as a fxf because she mentions she may prefer a woman's company to men, where as Zev says he prefers a woman's company to men.

[HAGA NAGA]

KalosCast wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

RAZZberree wrote...

I just need...more reasoning for someone to be gay/lesbian. It's a big choice y'know? If they had a very believable reasoning as to why Tali swung both ways then sure, I'd totally test the waters with a femShep.

I think the reasoning might be in fact she's actually entirely different species. It's kind of like, say there's a species which has females who look like pink balls and males who look like blue balls (bad pun) ... and then you go and say a heterosexual human male can only be attracted to pink balls. It's a stretch but hopefully can give the idea of what i'm getting at -- for a quarian the humans can be so different species there doesn't have to be sexual attraction there at all, or if there is any it doesn't have to be limited to any particular gender based on our own wiring.

As Femshep, you can get Tali to do everything but say she loves you... platonically. And the whole different species attraction thing where it's not dependant on gender only really works on species that don't look so humanoid. From what little we've seen, the only thing separating Quarians from Humans is leg joints... and possibly glowing eyes.

And if you really want to get into the ambiguity of writing, maybe Tali IS bisexual but just doesn't see Femshep as a viable sexual partner. Maybe she's into more feminine ladies.

they should have never led us down this tunnel.

Look! prior to release i was willing to accept the possibility and frankly the likelihood that Femshep couldn't romance Tali.  For me, the problem started when they let Femshep romance her 75% of the way and then cut it off.  I'm sure what happened is that they goofed on letting her say to many "sweetly romantic" things to Femshep (because that is EXACTLY what they are) and not too many people cared anyway. except me...........and a few others who got screwed

[Terwox_]

To be perfectly honest. I think the entire Quarian race is rather heterosexual. Seeing as same sex relationships/marriage would kind off go against the whole survival as a species thing they got going on. Not saying it would never happen, but the odds aren't exactly stacked in the favor off same sex relationships/marriage.

[speedy111280]

I like Tali but she's my femSheps little sister. I don't want to romance Tali at all. I'm sure I'll choose her on one of my maleShep run throughs just to see it but I'd never choose her for my femShep's (they are all staying loyal to Liara). Neither Tali or Garrus ever appealed to me as romantic options for my Shepard's. But I can understand the sentiment. To this day I always play as a male Revan just for the romance with Bastila, I was rather disappointed that I couldn't romance her in KOTOR.

[KalosCast]

aaniadyen wrote...

...Isn't Tali straight?

But if every peson in the universe isn't sexually attracted to your gender AND want to have a sexual relationship with you while encounting horrors at your side and constantly being thrown into life or death situations (there's a reason why the military has regs about this stuff) then it's oppression.

HAGA NAGA wrote...

they should have never led us down this tunnel.

Look!
prior to release i was willing to accept the possibility and frankly
the likelihood that Femshep couldn't romance Tali.  For me, the problem
started when they let Femshep romance her 75% of the way and then cut
it off.  I'm sure what happened is that they goofed on letting her say
to many "sweetly romantic" things to Femshep (because that is EXACTLY
what they are) and not too many people cared anyway. except
me...........and a few others who got screwed

Being able to have a character who's emotionally stable enough to love someone without rapidly applying  stimulation to their genitalia is not "getting screwed" (quite the opposite, really). I'm sorry that this game isn't your personal sexual fantasy. Go read some fanfiction and have a good ******, christ.

Modifié par KalosCast, 03 février 2010 - 09:04 .

[HAGA NAGA]

speedy111280 wrote...

I like Tali but she's my femSheps little sister. I don't want to romance Tali at all. I'm sure I'll choose her on one of my maleShep run throughs just to see it but I'd never choose her for my femShep's (they are all staying loyal to Liara). Neither Tali or Garrus ever appealed to me as romantic options for my Shepard's. But I can understand the sentiment. To this day I always play as a male Revan just for the romance with Bastila, I was rather disappointed that I couldn't romance her in KOTOR.

WELL OK!!!!! everybody has their way of playing, thanks for the intel!

[Adain878]

Being just straight fits Tali's character.



That being said, Shepard is the captain kirk of the mass effect universe. I suspect if it has a vaguely humanoid form Shepard will find a way ha ha, or at least someones variation of Shepard.

[Crowwalker100]

Tali's has got to be my favorite in ME 2, I played a Femhep on my second playthrough and it would be have been nice to have a romance with her, but not everyone is gay/bi. My Femshep had romanced Laria in ME 1 and there where no options for her to have a romance in ME 2. Hopefully Laria will be back in ME 3..

And who know her race may not even be wired to same sex relationships. As a race they almost died out. Reproduction would have been at the top of the list. Just as I doubt you would find a gay Korgan.

[rage-monk]

Terwox_ wrote...

To be perfectly honest. I think the entire Quarian race is rather heterosexual. Seeing as same sex relationships/marriage would kind off go against the whole survival as a species thing they got going on. Not saying it would never happen, but the odds aren't exactly stacked in the favor off same sex relationships/marriage.

Yeah, but joining with MaleShep isn't gonna increase the Quarian population either.

And why on earth would you need a reason for your sexual orientation? That is nothing one could jusify.

As for Tali appearantly not being lesbian - as I, too, got the faint hope of being possible through, well... sloppy sex-differentiated dialogues with her - is kind of sad, but I'll live with it.
But seeing how big the similarities of the male and female dialogues are, the option to ask whether she might be interested in a lesbian relationship wouldn't have hurt, I suppose.

[HAGA NAGA]

i guess it's a lost cause. i can accept that. i just needed to throw it out there to get over it.


however, there should be more F/F romance options in ME3.

[Fulgrim88]

DBHolm wrote...

Not everyone is bisexual, and Tali simply isn't one. I prefer playing Shepard as female and I generally go for lesbian romances if there are any, but I don't see this as a "lack".

This.

While i can understand that you're mad about the sharing suits dialogue, which is basically a big, mean tease on BWs side, you can't force bisexuality on everyone. Even with studies showing that most of humanity are potentially bisexual, only a minority actively lives that way. And we don't even know about Quarians.

However, they should at least include "something" for female Tali fans. Having the suit dialogue and then being basically unable to talk to her any further isn't only a slap in the face for a possible LI, but also for any kind of deep friendship (or even non sexual love, for that matter). Maybe include some additional dialogue options for FemSheps

Modifié par Fulgrim88, 03 février 2010 - 09:29 .

[wulf3n]

Terwox_ wrote...

To be perfectly honest. I think the entire Quarian race is rather heterosexual. Seeing as same sex relationships/marriage would kind off go against the whole survival as a species thing they got going on. Not saying it would never happen, but the odds aren't exactly stacked in the favor off same sex relationships/marriage.

wouldnt that effectively be the same as going off with shepard, do human quarian "relations" further the quarian cause.

[grayfox4000]

Hmm I wouldn't mind seeing some Tali girl on girl action. Its not like they couldn't fix that with a patch or somebody could mod it. I had to use my male shepard to fully romance her. Tali could be bi. But if you want her that bad, play as a male shepard then you'll get what you want. Thats what I did. Its worth it. Hell I romanced her twice. LOL

[Policyofnoreturn]

HAGA NAGA wrote...

First off, i cannot believe that i am the only Femshep that was holding out for Tali.  It was incredible that our efforts in the forums preceding the release of ME2 led to Tali being a romanceable squadmate, but "only" with Maleshep? is that acceptable? I don't play as Maleshep, I was part of the Tali movement, how have i (we) been forgotten? why have my sisters (and brothers, i thought) abandoned me?

You're not alone. My Femshep was really hoping for a Tali romance.

[Faerlyte]

Most species rely on a male breeding with a female...I would hazard a guess that the same would be true, even of a species from across the galaxy. Homosexuality isn't a choice in most cases - grant it, some people can't seem to grasp that, but the science behind it is that a person is born that way for whatever reason. I can't recite the particulars, not being a scientist or doctor and all.

I'm sure that homosexuality would be present in all species for the same reason it is present in humans, but regardless, sexual orientation is what we are born to, whether heterosexual or homosexual (except in some extreme cases of severe abuse). It doesn't change - not for most people, certainly not myself. I'm attracted to males and I will instinctively look for the male representative of another species because that is my sexual orientation.

Life, no matter how far disconnected and how different seeming, has a specific framework that will likely be similar in many ways wherever you go, no matter how many galaxies away. There is probably a specific reason for the fact that the more complex species on earth evolved to reproduce through sexual intercourse between male and female. Just because someone is of a different species doesn't mean that sexuality changes, unless your dealing with a species like the asari who are mono-gendered.

But there is a flaw with them in that they are basically the epitome of a female human, but blue. As a straight female it just doesn't feel right to think of them as anything but platonic because they don't pass my subconscious sexual orientation test, regardless of what they're supposed to be. You'd have to rewire my brain for that to feel right.

I guess what I'm saying is that sexual orientation has nothing to do with what species your dealing with. If you're attracted to males, you're attracted to males, and you're going to seek out that equivalent. The actual sexual attraction is something that would likely occur after having developed a deep emotional connection with that person, regardless of their species.

EDIT* Obviously, I wasn't interested in Tali in that way, but it's perfectly understandable why others might be. 

Modifié par Faerlyte, 03 février 2010 - 10:02 .

[aaniadyen]

KalosCast wrote...

aaniadyen wrote...

...Isn't Tali straight?

But if every peson in the universe isn't sexually attracted to your gender AND want to have a sexual relationship with you while encounting horrors at your side and constantly being thrown into life or death situations (there's a reason why the military has regs about this stuff) then it's oppression.

Please tell me that's a joke. if not...

Females get Thane, Garrus, Jacob (And Kaiden, if you want to count it).
Males get Miranda, Jack, Tali (And Ashley, if you want to count it).

Looks pretty even to me. *shrugs*

[Phil5000]

I think Tali's great, I'd love my Shep to lez out with her. Her figure drives me crazy and I lover her voice. And if I don't get to see what's under that face plate by the end of this whole thing I'm going to be super pissed.

By the way, since you're obviously a dedicated femshep like me, what do you think of Shepard's voice work this time around? I loved the job Jennifer Hale did with Shepard in ME 1 but this time she's trying to sound too much like a tough guy and (I'm finding at least) it's coming off a bit silly. What do you think?

[Phil5000]

Now that i think about it all, i wish Bioware would have the nerve to just let players romance whoever they wished regardless of sex or race (assuming they were "romanceable options" to begin with).  Am i wrong for feeling that way?

I agree completely.

[Faerlyte]

Phil5000 wrote...

Now that i think about it all, i wish Bioware would have the nerve to just let players romance whoever they wished regardless of sex or race (assuming they were "romanceable options" to begin with).  Am i wrong for feeling that way?

I agree completely.

I agree as well. 

[rage-monk]

grayfox4000 wrote...

(...) if you want her that bad, play as a male shepard then you'll get what you want. (...)

That wouldn't be the same.
When I play a RPG, I attach to my Character - mind you, I pick a female 99% of the time. She is me as much as she is merely my possesion. Even though i'm male, it works better for me with a female character, somehow. To me, Tali is the most interesting member of the crew. No other "man" shall have her. I smiply can't "be" a character that has his own voice, my empathy for a male (player) character is very low.

And why is Shepard always passive in the romances? Only exception in the MEs I can think of is Garrus. I think it's established that FemShep does not apppear as the girly type. So it should kinda fit if she would occasionally take the first step. I don't know how it works in real life, but I guess a gay/lesbian must be 'aggressive' from time to time.
I wonder if BioWare leave this out in order not to hurt feelings. You know what hurts most? A girl saying "I'm not interested in a relationship right know." and never talking to you again or simply disappearing in one way or another. That is in a way what Tali does. Teasing, but nothing whatsoever happens afterwards.