Naltair wrote...
We are playing the same game, where characters have emotions, motivations, and their own goals. You can totally screw up Tali's loyalty mission by telling the truth, by your logic you should be able to tell the truth and still be happy times with her.
Novacain999 wrote...
AngryTigerP wrote...
ERJAK2 wrote...
AngryTigerP wrote...
ERJAK2 wrote...
I'm going to ignore the logical points you made and instead try to destroy your credibility with accusations of prejudice
Fixed.
Good game, everybody, good game.
Whether your points have logic or not is utterly inconsequential, this thread got your attention because you have a fundamental issue with Tali being a female romance character. That's fine. However, your vitriol over our desire to see her as a female LI CANNOT rationally be explained by a dislike of character changes. Either you're prejudiced or you're a little crazy.
If you can point out a thread begging for a Jack f/f, or a Thane m/m -- and more specifically, threads that actually go so far as to suggest DLC to change the game to add such relations -- I will gladly post there, as well.
You state this and don't even seem to realize that there is a reason why this thread specifically about Tali exists, and is at 23 pages, but not for Jack or Thane? It's because there are obviously a lot of people that thought there was chemistry between a female Shepard, much more so then Thane and a Male Shep, or Jack and a femshep.
And seriously, god forbid fans throw out ideas of things they'd like to see in the game. If they made the DLC (which has a 99% odds of not happening), don't buy it. Jeez.
Naltair wrote...
But Mass effect does it best to try and present real people and real situations not fantasies. It's not a choose your own romantic adventure. It's a space action story with interesting characters who you interact with and deal with as they come. Some will like you, some will hate you, and some may not return the feelings you have for them.
That is the draw of the story.
Doesn't that include those huge rants of yours?AngryTigerP wrote...
Novacain999 wrote...
AngryTigerP wrote...
ERJAK2 wrote...
AngryTigerP wrote...
ERJAK2 wrote...
I'm going to ignore the logical points you made and instead try to destroy your credibility with accusations of prejudice
Fixed.
Good game, everybody, good game.
Whether your points have logic or not is utterly inconsequential, this thread got your attention because you have a fundamental issue with Tali being a female romance character. That's fine. However, your vitriol over our desire to see her as a female LI CANNOT rationally be explained by a dislike of character changes. Either you're prejudiced or you're a little crazy.
If you can point out a thread begging for a Jack f/f, or a Thane m/m -- and more specifically, threads that actually go so far as to suggest DLC to change the game to add such relations -- I will gladly post there, as well.
You state this and don't even seem to realize that there is a reason why this thread specifically about Tali exists, and is at 23 pages, but not for Jack or Thane? It's because there are obviously a lot of people that thought there was chemistry between a female Shepard, much more so then Thane and a Male Shep, or Jack and a femshep.
And seriously, god forbid fans throw out ideas of things they'd like to see in the game. If they made the DLC (which has a 99% odds of not happening), don't buy it. Jeez.
A thread blown far out of proportion by myself and others trying repeatedly to reason with the OP and supporters and constantly returning to the same circular logic.
There hasn't been much of substance for the past dozen pages, at least. Just the same things said over and over.
Modifié par Naltair, 04 février 2010 - 05:55 .
ERJAK2 wrote...
Naltair wrote...
But Mass effect does it best to try and present real people and real situations not fantasies. It's not a choose your own romantic adventure. It's a space action story with interesting characters who you interact with and deal with as they come. Some will like you, some will hate you, and some may not return the feelings you have for them.
That is the draw of the story.
See, I recently figured out why the romances are so important to the story as a whole. Whatever your opinions of me or the issue are this first paragraph should be at least skimmed over.
The romances are what make shepard a human being instead of a really big gun on legs. She has no real wants or desire, no real likes, or dislikes, beyond what applies directly to the mission. This is great from a role playing standpoint, as you can fill those in in your head, but too much time without some explicit feeling or need, not related to the mission, detach you from the character. I know from personal experience that it happens. The romances are the easiest way to remedy it without limiting the characters choice.
Now here's the part you might not like, limiting those romances to strictly(in this case by gender) eliminates that sense of "Shepard likes/dislikes whatever I think she/he does", because the only explicit way to express that is through romances you wouldn't choose, and the character you invisioned would never go along with. Can they please everyone? No, do I expect them to try and give as many options as possible? Yes, does it matter if it explicitly fits the companion character? Not if it's written well.
The romances humanize Shepard.
KateKane wrote...
Doesn't that include those huge rants of yours?AngryTigerP wrote...
Novacain999 wrote...
AngryTigerP wrote...
ERJAK2 wrote...
AngryTigerP wrote...
ERJAK2 wrote...
I'm going to ignore the logical points you made and instead try to destroy your credibility with accusations of prejudice
Fixed.
Good game, everybody, good game.
Whether your points have logic or not is utterly inconsequential, this thread got your attention because you have a fundamental issue with Tali being a female romance character. That's fine. However, your vitriol over our desire to see her as a female LI CANNOT rationally be explained by a dislike of character changes. Either you're prejudiced or you're a little crazy.
If you can point out a thread begging for a Jack f/f, or a Thane m/m -- and more specifically, threads that actually go so far as to suggest DLC to change the game to add such relations -- I will gladly post there, as well.
You state this and don't even seem to realize that there is a reason why this thread specifically about Tali exists, and is at 23 pages, but not for Jack or Thane? It's because there are obviously a lot of people that thought there was chemistry between a female Shepard, much more so then Thane and a Male Shep, or Jack and a femshep.
And seriously, god forbid fans throw out ideas of things they'd like to see in the game. If they made the DLC (which has a 99% odds of not happening), don't buy it. Jeez.
A thread blown far out of proportion by myself and others trying repeatedly to reason with the OP and supporters and constantly returning to the same circular logic.
There hasn't been much of substance for the past dozen pages, at least. Just the same things said over and over.
That is your interpretation to be sure and I agree each story is different but the characters are the same, your Ashley is the same as my Ashley except she might be dead or a love interest. Your Udina is still a jerk like my Udina. The list goes on and on, the only change is your Shepard and the choices you make.wulf3n wrote...
Each Shepard universe is unique hence the option should be there, should they change it? who knows, who cares.
wulf3n wrote...
Each Shepard universe is unique hence the option should be there, should they change it? who knows, who cares.
I agree with your statements. I try to add more than just because I want her to be or because in my secret fan fiction we are, or because she should be.AngryTigerP wrote...
No, because I'll bring up new points and facts to support my side of this debate. Everyone opposed to me is just like "lulz you're homophobic" and ignores me, goes another page and says something else stupid or inane which I address. I tend to avoid supposition without evidence... and if that means I have to say more than "TALI SHOULD BE ROMANCEABLE FOR FEMSHEP BECAUSE I LOVE HER" in a post, well, so be it. I'm not going to dumb myself down; I'll just continue to stack up the counterargumentation until I receive proper rebuttal.
with any NPC, I don't mind actual rejections. Jack and Mordin would be interesting LIs for FemShep. The difference between them ans Tali is they say "Your interest in me is flattering, but no thanks.", with Tali it's rather the other way round.The ambiguity starts in ME1. I personally didn't think the comforting hug was of sexual nature. Still too many signs she might have been.Naltair wrote...
Seriously anyone that thinks that the hug during Tali's loyalty mission was romantic really has a keen lack of understanding of what human/sentient compassion and comfort really is.
It is a moving moment of comfort for another sentient being going through probably one of the most traumatic moments of their young life.
wulf3n wrote...
but does they're sexual orientation change who they are?
or just how you percieve them?
Modifié par AngryTigerP, 04 février 2010 - 06:05 .
How we see them is important to who the character is. If you didn't see Tali as desirable you would not perceive her as such. Perception is one of the only ways we have to distinguish people. They may not even be correct perceptions but it still matters in how you compose your idea of a character.wulf3n wrote...
but does they're sexual orientation change who they are?
or just how you percieve them?
I think HAGA NAGA may have left you a bit jaded. Most people on the pro-FemShep/Talimance side have contributed more than that to the argument.AngryTigerP wrote...
No, because I'll bring up new points and facts to support my side of this debate. Everyone opposed to me is just like "lulz you're homophobic" and ignores me, goes another page and says something else stupid or inane which I address. I tend to avoid supposition without evidence... and if that means I have to say more than "TALI SHOULD BE ROMANCEABLE FOR FEMSHEP BECAUSE I LOVE HER" in a post, well, so be it. I'm not going to dumb myself down; I'll just continue to stack up the counterargumentation until I receive proper rebuttal.
AngryTigerP wrote...
wulf3n wrote...
but does they're sexual orientation change who they are?
or just how you percieve them?
Red herring.
Naltair's and my argument isn't about how they are oriented, it is about modifying orientation because you decided you'd rather be gay this round.
RPG this may be, that still doesn't mean we should stop people getting pissed about being decked in the jaw, Quarians reacting negatively to a live Geth on their ship, or yes, characters changing orientation at will like those African frogs that change gender as neccessary.
Perhaps but people are pointing to that moment as if it was the moment when the stars align and she magically wants to be with you. It isn't, the attraction is there before because Kelly tells you as much.rage-monk wrote...
The ambiguity starts in ME1. I personally didn't think the comforting hug was of sexual nature. Still too many signs she might have been.
True but if that were the case there would be no post about this subject or other posts similar to this one, or other posts that will come along in the interim before ME3 comes out. It's not a matter of affecting me you are looking at this the wrong way, it affects the overall story and the design of future LIs going forward. By your stance every character should be modified by the player to suit their whims and desires.wulf3n wrote...
but the change won't affect your game. unless you decide to romance Tali with a femshep. Hell bioware could have already done it and you wouldnt notice.
Naltair wrote...
Perhaps but people are pointing to that moment as if it was the moment when the stars align and she magically wants to be with you. It isn't, the attraction is there before because Kelly tells you as much.
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