732 réponses à ce sujet

[Naltair]

DaeJi wrote...

Naltair wrote...
It's the idea of a DLC coming out to change that, which perturbs me, it just reeks of pandering and not so much story wise direction.  If they meant for them to be bisexual then they should have just done that from the start, changing it sets a bad precedent and they might as well just change everyone to bi and be done with it.  But then that takes the idea of choice out of the window.

If BioWare had meant for them to be romance options they would have been right from the start too. But they weren't, and fans wanted them, so they got them. You keep going on and on about pandering while ignoring that the Tali and Garrus romance are panderings to fans already. And guess what, it didn't ruin the characters. And tell me, how does giving a player a choice throw choice out of the window? Maybe I'm missing something here, but in a game built on the choices you make more choices would be a good thing (within reason). Not only that, not giving same sex romance options limits how a player can design their Shepard, a character already fairly limited when it comes to customization.

So, to sum up, BioWare already pandered to the fans without ruining any characters.

I already admitted that making them love interests was pandering, I said that already.

Let me put it this way if you have to choose between two different doors but both doors have cake behind then did it really matter what choice you made?  If they suddenly released a DLC called Virmire Remix where you can save both Kaidan and Ashley, would that not diminish the choice that was made?  Giving players more options is great but doing that and diminishing the actual impact of choices is not.

Sometimes making a choice means that certain options just won't be available to you.

No matter how much I pine for a Brokeback Normandy adventure with Thane it just won't happen.  But that was a choice I made when I chose a male Shepard.

Modifié par Naltair, 03 février 2010 - 09:07 .

[KalosCast]

jlb524 wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

I don't get it; BioWare created a Tali and Garrus romance because the fans wanted it, but when fans want to make Tali available to female Shepards all of a sudden we're ruining her character?

I know right?  This is one thing that's always perplexed me... What a double standard 

It has nothing to do with that. It's simply the fact that the fanbase is essentially demanding that every single character should be bisexual, see Shep (usually FemShep, I've noticed) as a viable sexual partner, want a relationship with them, and want to explore that while the constant threat of a painful inglorious death is looming over them. There are plenty of nice, good looking people of my gender that I would totally go out with and it's not an option because they're straight... but I don't petition Congress to force them into being an option and then "feel betrayed" when I find out the entire galaxy doesn't wanna get in my pants.

[DaeJi]

Naltair wrote...
I have a question when you recruit Tali as a female Shepard, does Kelly Chambers mention anything about her wanting to be more than friends?

No, because the romance flag for her is locked for female Shepards. The content is actually there, just not accessible to players.

[Naltair]

sp333dd3m0n wrote...

I don't know, if she does, then i'll eat my words. Although it's entirely plausable that they had a coding error.....meh you never know. But more likely than not, if kelly mentions something like that, that would mean that they started the idea but never finished it.....? Just throwing ideas around here.

I think this would be telling since she does not say anything for Garrus at all, romantically for male Shepard, just that she wants to hug him.

[Naltair]

DaeJi wrote...

Naltair wrote...
I have a question when you recruit Tali as a female Shepard, does Kelly Chambers mention anything about her wanting to be more than friends?

No, because the romance flag for her is locked for female Shepards. The content is actually there, just not accessible to players.

You make this sound like some kind of conspiracy.

[sp333dd3m0n]

DaeJi wrote...

Naltair wrote...
I have a question when you recruit Tali as a female Shepard, does Kelly Chambers mention anything about her wanting to be more than friends?

No, because the romance flag for her is locked for female Shepards. The content is actually there, just not accessible to players.

Well there is the proof. So ya.....back to my original thoughts. Tali's personality doesn't lend itself to be BI.

[DaeJi]

KalosCast wrote...


It has nothing to do with that. It's simply the fact that the fanbase is essentially demanding that every single character should be bisexual,

What the fanbase want is an option. Female Shepards do actually have a way to have a same sex romance in Mass Effect 2, but it's either remarkably shallow (Kelly) or kills her (Morinth). What about male Shepards? Or having one of the more in depth romance for a female Shepard? Why would a DLC that is optional be such a bad thing for this?

Naltair wrote...



You make this sound like some kind of conspiracy.

How? That's what happened with the game, the dialog was locked. How is that a conspiracy?

Modifié par DaeJi, 03 février 2010 - 09:10 .

[Naltair]

So can it be unlocked and if so are there actually voiced lines for any of that dialog?

[DaeJi]

Naltair wrote...

So can it be unlocked and if so are there actually voiced lines for any of that dialog?

The Tali dialog can be unlocked. As for whether or not a female Shepard has any responce to it I don't know. I'll go with probably, and if not then it's an hour or two of recording lines for it.

[Naltair]

Let me reiterate I am not against the idea of her being bi, just the idea that there needs to be some DLC, to fix something that isn't a problem to begin with. By that thinking they should just release a DLC that makes every character bisexual and call it a day making the gender choice rather pointless.

[Maria Caliban]

DaeJi wrote...

Naltair wrote...

So can it be unlocked and if so are there actually voiced lines for any of that dialog?

The Tali dialog can be unlocked. As for whether or not a female Shepard has any responce to it I don't know. I'll go with probably, and if not then it's an hour or two of recording lines for it.

Jennifer Hale has no voiced lines for a Talimance. You have to turn on subtitles.

[Naltair]

DaeJi wrote...

Naltair wrote...

So can it be unlocked and if so are there actually voiced lines for any of that dialog?

The Tali dialog can be unlocked. As for whether or not a female Shepard has any responce to it I don't know. I'll go with probably, and if not then it's an hour or two of recording lines for it.

I will just say that was probably something they thought about but eventually axed it, I would not read too much into that at all.  I am pretty sure this is a similar situation to Alistair and Morrigan in DA:O where the lines were there or something but never actually developed.  In fact I believe a dev even came into that thread and said that they were not intended for same sex roles even with the flags.

[jlb524]

KalosCast wrote...

It has nothing to do with that. It's simply the fact that the fanbase is essentially demanding that every single character should be bisexual, see Shep (usually FemShep, I've noticed) as a viable sexual partner, want a relationship with them, and want to explore that while the constant threat of a painful inglorious death is looming over them. There are plenty of nice, good looking people of my gender that I would totally go out with and it's not an option because they're straight... but I don't petition Congress to force them into being an option and then "feel betrayed" when I find out the entire galaxy doesn't wanna get in my pants.

Real life's a bit different from video games.  Of course you don't petition Congress to force a hot person to be bisexual!  That's ridiculous and  not a very good analogy.

A video game is just a form of entertainment and this specific game is supposed to be all about 'choices' and being able to play as your Shepard.  Well, romantic choices are awfully limited for gay and lesbian  Shepards.

[Exile Isan]

My femShep likes Tali only as a friend, and I would say Tali is her best friend, maybe even like the sister she never had (no matter what background you choose you never have siblings).

[DaeJi]

Naltair wrote...

Let me reiterate I am not against the idea of her being bi, just the idea that there needs to be some DLC, to fix something that isn't a problem to begin with. By that thinking they should just release a DLC that makes every character bisexual and call it a day making the gender choice rather pointless.

For a lot of people, not having any true same sex romances is a problem with the game. It's not even about Tali, it's about having a choice. As for gender, I did not choose to play a female Shepard because of the romance (I choose it because of the voice acting). I'm fairly sure that most people did not choice their Shepard's gender based on romance.

[Naltair]

jlb524 wrote...

A video game is just a form of entertainment and this specific game is supposed to be all about 'choices' and being able to play as your Shepard.  Well, romantic choices are awfully limited for gay and lesbian  Shepards.

I will agree there, they wrote themselves into a corner with Liara and asari in general.  Lesbian Shepards have it better than the gay Shepards who have nothing.  I am pretty sure this is intentional sadly.

Considering that young males/old males are more interested in female/female alien looking adventures than male/male encounters.

[Naltair]

DaeJi wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Let me reiterate I am not against the idea of her being bi, just the idea that there needs to be some DLC, to fix something that isn't a problem to begin with. By that thinking they should just release a DLC that makes every character bisexual and call it a day making the gender choice rather pointless.

For a lot of people, not having any true same sex romances is a problem with the game. It's not even about Tali, it's about having a choice. As for gender, I did not choose to play a female Shepard because of the romance (I choose it because of the voice acting). I'm fairly sure that most people did not choice their Shepard's gender based on romance.

Oh I agree, but that choice should determine what romances are available since well people like different things, I cannot speak for BioWare's choice to not include same sex relationships like they did DA:O but eh, not much can be done about it now.

[Nod_In_Death]

Ararara wrote...

Next people will want to be romancing Legion. (I wanted to romance Tali too, but I know it can't be, so I'll just wait for Liara! )

...what gave it away?

As soon as Legion showed up on scene totin' a long shiny sniper rifle I wanted him bad (not sarcasm). I find it hard to believe anyone wouldn't find him incredibly cute. <3 He just acts/talks/behaves like he is in serious need of being cuddled till his hard drive overheats.

[mione]

My femshep cared for Tali in that way but she didn't. .



*runs away crying*



*again*

[Kolaris8472]

Just got through digging through the dialogue sound files. If there are any female Shephard recordings for the relationship_04 or _05 scenes or culmination scene, its...well, its not there. Maybe its somewhere else, but very unlikely.



Personally, when it comes to this...inter-species romance, I highly doubt physical roles to play is the driving factor. Saying Tali '"isn't a Lesbian" is rather misleading since even when romancing a male Shephard I wouldn't exactly say she's "Heterosexual" - it kind of falls outside the normal bounds of the definitions. My Femshep was a protective and dominate figure in her relationship with Tali, when you're of a different species I would think that'd be enough to consider yourself the "male" aspect.



I was a bit disappointed there wasn't a romance there, but what really annoyed me is that because there's no romance you only get to have three conversations with her. I don't care if it ever gets physical or intimate, but they damn well better add something in its place. Tali was the FIRST squadmate to go into the "I really need to configure these engines, maybe later?" loop, despite seeming to be very very close with a female Shephard.

[DaeJi]

Naltair wrote...
Oh I agree, but that choice should determine what romances are available since well people like different things, I cannot speak for BioWare's choice to not include same sex relationships like they did DA:O but eh, not much can be done about it now.

I can see where your coming from, and believe it or not I do agree to a point. What I would like to see is a same sex romance DLC that allows one alien and one human option per gender. Which would mean Tali for females and Jacob for males at least. Straight romances would have more options, which makes sense applying real world logic, but people who want a gay romance would still get their wish.

[Riot Inducer]

I don't think Tali should be bisexual, it's just not in her character I think. That said I do kind of wish she was but that's only because I find it hard to play a male shepard anymore, Ms. Hale's voicework for female shepard is just so much better. No offense to Mr. Meer but he just doesn't add enough emotion and inflection to a lot of the lines.

[Naltair]

Yeah I wish we had more conversations with them even if were not romancing them.

[DaeJi]

Riot Inducer wrote...

I don't think Tali should be bisexual, it's just not in her character I think. That said I do kind of wish she was but that's only because I find it hard to play a male shepard anymore, Ms. Hale's voicework for female shepard is just so much better. No offense to Mr. Meer but he just doesn't add enough emotion and inflection to a lot of the lines.

Well, Tali reacted the same to a male and female Shepard in Mass Effect, so she did have to be altered a tiny bit for a romance with her in Mass Effect 2. Making her bisexual wouldn't be that much of a stretch. I will admit though, Mordin's lines about... stress relief are funnier without romance anyone and I would encourage a platonic run through of the game just for that part.

[Kolaris8472]

I'd like to ask anyone who's saying Tali doesn't seem the "bisexual" type to explain a bit further.



Is it because of her background and care for her people? Her desire for producing kids to "do her duty" for the Quarians? I'd hate to break it to you, but she's not getting any with a Male Shephard.



To put forward a hypothetical situation, what if the Asari, while outwardly looking identical (as in Female), had both Male and Female genders that only played a part in their mental baby-making. Would anyone who wasn't an Asari actually care?