732 réponses à ce sujet

[DaeJi]

Naltair wrote...

There are certain thing that are not subjective one of them being Kelly Chambers noticing the attraction, the actual flirtation, and the culmination of the romance. On top of that the fact that lines were not voiced and the voice work has been for about a year now is pretty telling now. Mark Meer stated he did the bulk of the voice work over last summer and there was voice in the GDC conference leak when the ME2 video was leaked. So the voice work was done quite awhile ago, if they wanted to fix it they had plenty of time to do so but never did. It says to me that decision was made a long time ago and just left in game and not dealt with.

While Shepard's dialog isn't there, the squad's dialog is. BioWare would need to spend maybe an hour or two recording new dialog for the character, probably something they could do while working on a DLC. It's not a problem that cannot be overcome with any amount of difficulty.

[Naltair]

HaloKT wrote...

Naltair wrote...

I can't argue with should she bisexual, but I can argue against is she bisexual, given the current evidence from ME2.

The current "evidence" is censored shortly before release. AFAIK the Prima guide states that only Miranda and Jacob were "straight only" romances but that there are other romances to be had. Which explains why Jacob is aso anxious to get into my pants so early. Just like Liara or Kaidan in ME1 it's very clear that he's the go-to standard romance option.
And just like the changing of a new character Shep's decisions in the ME1 timeline, same sex relationships got the axe very, very shortly pre-release. I wouldn't be shocked if some dataminer actually found audio files for the Tali/Femshep romance and they only blocked the conversational trigger for it before going gold in order to cheaply avoid backlash from popular media. Overall, the sex scenes are drastically toned down from ME1 as well. Not that I'd mind. I don't need some virtual depiction of sex. Call me a sucker for emotions, but I really miss the loved and cared for feeling I had in ME1.

Censored, but not shortly before the game's release the voice work was done months ago, if not almost a year ago.  Whatever decisions were made on romances were made long before launch.

[HAGA NAGA]

Naltair wrote...

There are certain thing that are not subjective one of them being Kelly Chambers noticing the attraction, the actual flirtation, and the culmination of the romance. On top of that the fact that lines were not voiced and the voice work has been for about a year now is pretty telling now. Mark Meer stated he did the bulk of the voice work over last summer and there was voice in the GDC conference leak when the ME2 video was leaked. So the voice work was done quite awhile ago, if they wanted to fix it they had plenty of time to do so but never did. It says to me that decision was made a long time ago and just left in game and not dealt with.

Another thing that is not subjective is that Tali wanted to join suits with Maleshep & Femshep in the exact same string of dialogue.  Also, the end to linking suits was a romanctic encounter in Shepard's Cabin.  The end to it with Femshep was...............utterly missing.  your theory is every bit as much conjecture as ours.  for a guy that is supposedly "all about the facts" you sure keep dropping the ball on this one.

[Naltair]

DaeJi wrote...
While Shepard's dialog isn't there, the squad's dialog is. BioWare would need to spend maybe an hour or two recording new dialog for the character, probably something they could do while working on a DLC. It's not a problem that cannot be overcome with any amount of difficulty.

Of all the DLC to make this just does not seem a good use of resources, but I understand if you disagree.

[DaeJi]

Naltair wrote...

Censored, but not shortly before the game's release the voice work was done months ago, if not almost a year ago.  Whatever decisions were made on romances were made long before launch.

Those decisions can be reversed. That Tali is even a romance is proof enough that character decisions aren't unchangable. And this is just recording a few new lines, something they could do while working on other DLCs.

Naltair wrote...
Of all the DLC to make this just does not seem a good use of resources, but I understand if you disagree.

Hence why I said that they could record these few, few lines while working on another DLC. Bare minimal amount of work needs to be done, they would get paid for it.

Modifié par DaeJi, 03 février 2010 - 10:31 .

[KalosCast]

HAGA NAGA wrote...

Another thing that is not subjective is that Tali wanted to join suits with Maleshep & Femshep in the exact same string of dialogue.  Also, the end to linking suits was a romanctic encounter in Shepard's Cabin.  The end to it with Femshep was...............utterly missing.  your theory is every bit as much conjecture as ours.  for a guy that is supposedly "all about the facts" you sure keep dropping the ball on this one.

She's saying that she loves you, she's not saying she wants to bump uglies. I'd hate to see how you handle rejection in real life.

You've heard of the term "love, but not IN love" right?

Modifié par KalosCast, 03 février 2010 - 10:32 .

[Naltair]

HAGA NAGA wrote...

Naltair wrote...

There are certain thing that are not subjective one of them being Kelly Chambers noticing the attraction, the actual flirtation, and the culmination of the romance. On top of that the fact that lines were not voiced and the voice work has been for about a year now is pretty telling now. Mark Meer stated he did the bulk of the voice work over last summer and there was voice in the GDC conference leak when the ME2 video was leaked. So the voice work was done quite awhile ago, if they wanted to fix it they had plenty of time to do so but never did. It says to me that decision was made a long time ago and just left in game and not dealt with.

Another thing that is not subjective is that Tali wanted to join suits with Maleshep & Femshep in the exact same string of dialogue.  Also, the end to linking suits was a romanctic encounter in Shepard's Cabin.  The end to it with Femshep was...............utterly missing.  your theory is every bit as much conjecture as ours.  for a guy that is supposedly "all about the facts" you sure keep dropping the ball on this one.

What dropped ball?

The fact is that one gender completes the relationship and one does not?  I am sorry if you feel there is something dangling there but I didn't make that decision the ME2 development team did.  I am just stating that without mods there is no same sex relationship which leaves me to believe that Tali is straight.  Just like there is no such relationship for Ashley which leads me to believe she is straight.

Even if the dialog is there the fact that it cannot be accessed in the normal game is fact enough.  Same with Kaidan or any other love interest that is not bisexual.

[AngryTigerP]

HAGA NAGA wrote...

Naltair wrote...

There are certain thing that are not subjective one of them being Kelly Chambers noticing the attraction, the actual flirtation, and the culmination of the romance. On top of that the fact that lines were not voiced and the voice work has been for about a year now is pretty telling now. Mark Meer stated he did the bulk of the voice work over last summer and there was voice in the GDC conference leak when the ME2 video was leaked. So the voice work was done quite awhile ago, if they wanted to fix it they had plenty of time to do so but never did. It says to me that decision was made a long time ago and just left in game and not dealt with.

Another thing that is not subjective is that Tali wanted to join suits with Maleshep & Femshep in the exact same string of dialogue.  Also, the end to linking suits was a romanctic encounter in Shepard's Cabin.  The end to it with Femshep was...............utterly missing.  your theory is every bit as much conjecture as ours.  for a guy that is supposedly "all about the facts" you sure keep dropping the ball on this one.

Jesus Christ--

LINKING SUITS =/= ROMANTIC GESTURE. IT MEANS TRUST.

I guess Raan and Tali's mother were totally feeling all lesbian and stuff when Tali was born, huh?

[HAGA NAGA]

Naltair wrote...

DaeJi wrote...
While Shepard's dialog isn't there, the squad's dialog is. BioWare would need to spend maybe an hour or two recording new dialog for the character, probably something they could do while working on a DLC. It's not a problem that cannot be overcome with any amount of difficulty.

Of all the DLC to make this just does not seem a good use of resources, but I understand if you disagree.

oh yes, we're all very aware that you feel this way.  i would certainly respect you more if you came right out and said "i don't want you guys to have your Femshep/Tali romance" instead of trying to beat around the bush about it.

[Dave the Seagull]

AngryTigerP wrote...

HAGA NAGA wrote...

Naltair wrote...

There are certain thing that are not subjective one of them being Kelly Chambers noticing the attraction, the actual flirtation, and the culmination of the romance. On top of that the fact that lines were not voiced and the voice work has been for about a year now is pretty telling now. Mark Meer stated he did the bulk of the voice work over last summer and there was voice in the GDC conference leak when the ME2 video was leaked. So the voice work was done quite awhile ago, if they wanted to fix it they had plenty of time to do so but never did. It says to me that decision was made a long time ago and just left in game and not dealt with.

Another thing that is not subjective is that Tali wanted to join suits with Maleshep & Femshep in the exact same string of dialogue.  Also, the end to linking suits was a romanctic encounter in Shepard's Cabin.  The end to it with Femshep was...............utterly missing.  your theory is every bit as much conjecture as ours.  for a guy that is supposedly "all about the facts" you sure keep dropping the ball on this one.

Jesus Christ--

LINKING SUITS =/= ROMANTIC GESTURE. IT MEANS TRUST.

I guess Raan and Tali's mother were totally feeling all lesbian and stuff when Tali was born, huh?

I guess nothing stirs up Girl/Girl passion like pushing a small humanoid out of your Xenowomb.

[Naltair]

DaeJi wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Censored, but not shortly before the game's release the voice work was done months ago, if not almost a year ago.  Whatever decisions were made on romances were made long before launch.

Those decisions can be reversed. That Tali is even a romance is proof enough that character decisions aren't unchangable. And this is just recording a few new lines, something they could do while working on other DLCs.

Naltair wrote...
Of all the DLC to make this just does not seem a good use of resources, but I understand if you disagree.

Hence why I said that they could record these few, few lines while working on another DLC. Bare minimal amount of work needs to be done, they would get paid for it.

Perhaps but why was this not done for any of the ME1 love interests and if you do this for Tali then you have to do this for others, you open a can of worms that becomes ridiculous story wise.  And effectively eliminates choices.

[HAGA NAGA]

AngryTigerP wrote...

HAGA NAGA wrote...

Naltair wrote...

There are certain thing that are not subjective one of them being Kelly Chambers noticing the attraction, the actual flirtation, and the culmination of the romance. On top of that the fact that lines were not voiced and the voice work has been for about a year now is pretty telling now. Mark Meer stated he did the bulk of the voice work over last summer and there was voice in the GDC conference leak when the ME2 video was leaked. So the voice work was done quite awhile ago, if they wanted to fix it they had plenty of time to do so but never did. It says to me that decision was made a long time ago and just left in game and not dealt with.

Another thing that is not subjective is that Tali wanted to join suits with Maleshep & Femshep in the exact same string of dialogue.  Also, the end to linking suits was a romanctic encounter in Shepard's Cabin.  The end to it with Femshep was...............utterly missing.  your theory is every bit as much conjecture as ours.  for a guy that is supposedly "all about the facts" you sure keep dropping the ball on this one.

Jesus Christ--

LINKING SUITS =/= ROMANTIC GESTURE. IT MEANS TRUST.

I guess Raan and Tali's mother were totally feeling all lesbian and stuff when Tali was born, huh?

A mother with her child is one thing. Two grown women going through the ordeal of sharing suits so they can chat is a retarded notion. think about what you're saying? Jesus Christ, right back at ya!

[Naltair]

HAGA NAGA wrote...

Naltair wrote...

DaeJi wrote...
While Shepard's dialog isn't there, the squad's dialog is. BioWare would need to spend maybe an hour or two recording new dialog for the character, probably something they could do while working on a DLC. It's not a problem that cannot be overcome with any amount of difficulty.

Of all the DLC to make this just does not seem a good use of resources, but I understand if you disagree.

oh yes, we're all very aware that you feel this way.  i would certainly respect you more if you came right out and said "i don't want you guys to have your Femshep/Tali romance" instead of trying to beat around the bush about it.

I am not against it, if it was in the game from launch I wouldn't care.

It's the idea that it needs to change to suit your whims that I do not agree with.

[KalosCast]

For the record, voice work is the most time-consuming and expensive part of game development in this scope. That's why most games have godawful VO work.

[Kolaris8472]

Naltair wrote...
Perhaps but why was this not done for any of the ME1 love interests and if you do this for Tali then you have to do this for others, you open a can of worms that becomes ridiculous story wise.  And effectively eliminates choices.

I'm sorry, what? Eliminates choices how? Seems like it would only be adding choices. 

If you're talking about someone who had already played through and "missed out", they can always replay it and take advantage of this "choice" bonus pack. 

[Naltair]

HAGA NAGA wrote...

A mother with her child is one thing. Two grown women going through the ordeal of sharing suits so they can chat is a retarded notion. think about what you're saying? Jesus Christ, right back at ya!

Because best friends don't like to show each other how much one means to the other?  Platonic love can be just as powerful as romantic love.

[DaeJi]

Naltair wrote...
Perhaps but why was this not done for any of the ME1 love interests and if you do this for Tali then you have to do this for others, you open a can of worms that becomes ridiculous story wise.  And effectively eliminates choices.

The slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy. Just allowing one thing does not mean something else has to happen. And please tell me, how does adding more choices eliminate choice?

[KalosCast]

HAGA NAGA wrote...



A mother with her child is one thing. Two grown women going through the ordeal of sharing suits so they can chat is a retarded notion. think about what you're saying? Jesus Christ, right back at ya!

By this logic, every time I hug someone, it means I want to have sex with them

[Naltair]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Naltair wrote...
Perhaps but why was this not done for any of the ME1 love interests and if you do this for Tali then you have to do this for others, you open a can of worms that becomes ridiculous story wise.  And effectively eliminates choices.

I'm sorry, what? Eliminates choices how? Seems like it would only be adding choices. 

If you're talking about someone who had already played through and "missed out", they can always replay it and take advantage of this "choice" bonus pack. 

My insinuation is that if you make every romance choice available to every gender then you eliminate one of the KEY differences between female and male Shepard.  They are nearly exactly the same otherwise.

[AngryTigerP]

HAGA NAGA wrote...

Naltair wrote...

DaeJi wrote...
While Shepard's dialog isn't there, the squad's dialog is. BioWare would need to spend maybe an hour or two recording new dialog for the character, probably something they could do while working on a DLC. It's not a problem that cannot be overcome with any amount of difficulty.

Of all the DLC to make this just does not seem a good use of resources, but I understand if you disagree.

oh yes, we're all very aware that you feel this way.  i would certainly respect you more if you came right out and said "i don't want you guys to have your Femshep/Tali romance" instead of trying to beat around the bush about it.

So you'd expect him if he outright lied?

Because he's being pretty frickin' clear.

Bioware shouldn't waste time or resources on modding something as petty as a ROMANCE, especially in order to modify a character's written sexual orientation just because YOU want it. I am not saying that I think same-sex relations are icky -- but so far, there simply have been none written in. None of the characters swing that way. So be it. Get over it. Stop being so damned selfish.

[Naltair]

DaeJi wrote...

Naltair wrote...
Perhaps but why was this not done for any of the ME1 love interests and if you do this for Tali then you have to do this for others, you open a can of worms that becomes ridiculous story wise.  And effectively eliminates choices.

The slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy. Just allowing one thing does not mean something else has to happen. And please tell me, how does adding more choices eliminate choice?

Think big picture not just your own desires.

It is a slippery slope and it would create a hell storm on the forums, just because you want Tali for your fem Shepard does not mean everyone else does.  Maybe they want Miranda or Jack?  Would you be upset if they did such a DLC but did it for Miranda or Jack and not Tali?

Modifié par Naltair, 03 février 2010 - 10:41 .

[Novacain999]

Naltair wrote...

Novacain999 wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Novacain999 wrote...
I've stated in the past all I really want from ME3 reguarding Tali is there to be an option were Tali admits that she views you as more then a best friend. I don't need a sex scene or anything like that. I don't know, I don't think it's asking that much, but I don't see it happening.

She did that in ME2 by suggesting linking suits?  I am not quite clear on how that works for the female Shepard, but that seems as close as one can get to a quarian, like knowing a hanar's soul name.

*chuckles* I like how you delete the stuff outside of that so you don't have to adress the part of the argument that you'd have admit is a fair point. It's a clever dodge.

That scene was approaching what I mean, but I don't think it quite got there. The fact that a male shepard can continue it to the point of bedding her kinda goes why it's a letdown to players using a female Shepard who love Tali to death.

I also find the notion that the fact that she didn't hit on you there means she wouldn't have interest flawed, and that she's "written to be straight" as well. She still shows a great deal of interest in a female Shepard over the course of the game. Like I asked before, if Bioware decided to have Tali admit that she did have interest in you, but was too nervous and insecure to admit it due to it not only being another species, but also the same gender, would it really come across as out of character? I don't think so.

I wasn't really dodging I just found that bit the more interesting of what you wrote.

It is obvious there is no real middle ground here, if you want to infer from the scenes that there is something more then go for it but if nothing comes of it, then well that is how it goes.

I think I've been arguing the middle ground (That it's not likely, but they didn't completely close the door on the issue like some people think). Honestly, I'm biased, but I'd say your the one who isn't seeing the middle ground here.

And yeah, as someone who thinks they didn't completely shut the door (The only way for that to have been done would be propositioning her, and her saying I'm not interested, or her dieing I guess), and would like to see it in the 3rd if at all possible, I'm gonna keep commenting on it. No clue why you are posting here if basically all your going to do is argue with everyone who agrees with the thread concept.

[DaeJi]

Naltair wrote...
My insinuation is that if you make every romance choice available to every gender then you eliminate one of the KEY differences between female and male Shepard.  They are nearly exactly the same otherwise.

The key difference between a male and female Shepard is that one is a male, and the other is female. And note how we don't want every love interest to be bisexuality, just one or two  of them for each gender.

Naltair wrote...
Think big picture not just your own desires.

Big picture is that this is content that a lot of fans would like to see, would require minimal work to implant, and would net them a tidy profit. BioWare is a company with a goal to make money, and this would make them money.

It
is a slippery slope and it would create a hell storm on the forums,
just because you want Tali for your fem Shepard does not mean everyone
else does.  maybe they want Miranda or Jack?  Would you be upset if
they did such a DLC but did it for Miranda or Jack and not Tali?

Again, slippery slope is a logical fallacy. Read this: http://www.nizkor.or...pery-slope.html

Modifié par DaeJi, 03 février 2010 - 10:43 .

[AngryTigerP]

HAGA NAGA wrote...

AngryTigerP wrote...

HAGA NAGA wrote...

Naltair wrote...

There are certain thing that are not subjective one of them being Kelly Chambers noticing the attraction, the actual flirtation, and the culmination of the romance. On top of that the fact that lines were not voiced and the voice work has been for about a year now is pretty telling now. Mark Meer stated he did the bulk of the voice work over last summer and there was voice in the GDC conference leak when the ME2 video was leaked. So the voice work was done quite awhile ago, if they wanted to fix it they had plenty of time to do so but never did. It says to me that decision was made a long time ago and just left in game and not dealt with.

Another thing that is not subjective is that Tali wanted to join suits with Maleshep & Femshep in the exact same string of dialogue.  Also, the end to linking suits was a romanctic encounter in Shepard's Cabin.  The end to it with Femshep was...............utterly missing.  your theory is every bit as much conjecture as ours.  for a guy that is supposedly "all about the facts" you sure keep dropping the ball on this one.

Jesus Christ--

LINKING SUITS =/= ROMANTIC GESTURE. IT MEANS TRUST.

I guess Raan and Tali's mother were totally feeling all lesbian and stuff when Tali was born, huh?

A mother with her child is one thing. Two grown women going through the ordeal of sharing suits so they can chat is a retarded notion. think about what you're saying? Jesus Christ, right back at ya!

So... a couple of girlfriends (both heterosexual) sharing a bed for a sleepover means that they must have sex? Because I doubt they have more in mind than gossip.

[KalosCast]

DaeJi wrote...

Naltair wrote...
My insinuation is that if you make every romance choice available to every gender then you eliminate one of the KEY differences between female and male Shepard.  They are nearly exactly the same otherwise.

The key difference between a male and female Shepard is that one is a male, and the other is female. And note how we don't want every love interest to be bisexuality, just one or two  of them for each gender.

Well, unless your NAGA HAGA, then you believe that Bioware pesonally owes you Talisex. And that everyone you talk to should be Bisexual.

Modifié par KalosCast, 03 février 2010 - 10:42 .