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[Saibh]

kaimanaMM wrote...

Thane isn't a man easily impressed.  Irikah shook him up, her courage and boldness made a pretty big impression on him.  He was also young at the time, remember it's been ten years since her death and if my timeline is right, about ten years that they were married / had Kolyat together.  (If my timeline is off, don't flog me too hard.)  

Did he envision Irikah as the Goddess Arashu?  Possibly.  That was the first time Thane had ever been challenged before - directly, the only other time was when Shep came busting through the Dantius Towers.  The point is that the impression Irikah must've made on a man who'd been killing for about seven solid  years by then must've been very profound.  Did he call her siha?  Maybe.  But in the end, does it really matter?

A huge chunk, if not all of Thane's romance is about letting go of the past and living in the now.  Thane loves Shepard now. It doesn't mean he loves her any less because he had Irikah in his life.  And it doesn't lessen the memory of Irikah any less that he loves Shepard now.

Oh, you enlightened fools!

Me and the petty crowd are going to sit over in the corner and sulk.



Fun.

Modifié par Saibh, 02 octobre 2010 - 09:34 .

[cindalkitty]

kaimanaMM wrote...

Thane isn't a man easily impressed.  Irikah shook him up, her courage and boldness made a pretty big impression on him.  He was also young at the time, remember it's been ten years since her death and if my timeline is right, about ten years that they were married / had Kolyat together.  (If my timeline is off, don't flog me too hard.)  

Did he envision Irikah as the Goddess Arashu?  Possibly.  That was the first time Thane had ever been challenged before - directly, the only other time was when Shep came busting through the Dantius Towers.  The point is that the impression Irikah must've made on a man who'd been killing for about seven solid  years by then must've been very profound.  Did he call her siha?  Maybe.  But in the end, does it really matter?

A huge chunk, if not all of Thane's romance is about letting go of the past and living in the now.  Thane loves Shepard now. It doesn't mean he loves her any less because he had Irikah in his life.  And it doesn't lessen the memory of Irikah any less that he loves Shepard now.

I want to call this post Siha.

And then maybe sex it.

It is like it looked into my heart... and showed what was inside.

[cindalkitty]

Regarding Jacob/Thane loyalty conflict... I really like Cheese's write-up.  I wasn't a fan of loyalty conflict, though, on my half-and-half morality Shepard.  That's how Miranda got killed >.>  And too much of that sort of fighting between squad mates would have made them look, to me, like a bunch of children incabale of being professional and putting the fate of the galaxy before bickering.  Didn't I just do a loyalty quest for you?  C'mon!

Regarding insubordination... I wanted to reprimand Miranda as well a couple of times for leaving out what my Shepard considered somewhat important details about Miranda's loyalty mission, and for messing with Jacob by passing along the information about the Hugo Gernsback (however, there, T.I.M. has a talk with her about it).

I felt the writers put Jacob out of line in Thane's debriefing, and they didn't let Shepard butt in - which is what annoyed me most, I think.  It's a debriefing, for crying out loud.  What I would have given for a "STFU" button.  Give me your opinion, sure, but not as a surprise.

Shepard says in a few places that, as a rule, she is not fond of surprises.

And if you (any of the squad/crew) are going to be a jerk, well, I'm sure our cook could use a break from working on  the ship's plumbing so he can spend more time on the meals.


On the other hand..
Since you don't get to talk to Thane in his debriefing, it's the perfect excuse to go talk to him in Life Support... which allows for a much more in-depth conversation than you would have had otherwise (since most debriefings are over fairly quickly).

So, meh.  I'm glad, despite how it went, that the issue was left alone after.


I would have liked the option to appoint positions >.>  Or not have had Cerberus in every single debrief, but that's neither here nor there.

Modifié par cindalkitty, 02 octobre 2010 - 10:32 .

[JECWSU]

kaimanaMM wrote...

Thane isn't a man easily impressed.  Irikah shook him up, her courage and boldness made a pretty big impression on him.  He was also young at the time, remember it's been ten years since her death and if my timeline is right, about ten years that they were married / had Kolyat together.  (If my timeline is off, don't flog me too hard.)  

Did he envision Irikah as the Goddess Arashu?  Possibly.  That was the first time Thane had ever been challenged before - directly, the only other time was when Shep came busting through the Dantius Towers.  The point is that the impression Irikah must've made on a man who'd been killing for about seven solid  years by then must've been very profound.  Did he call her siha?  Maybe.  But in the end, does it really matter?

A huge chunk, if not all of Thane's romance is about letting go of the past and living in the now.  Thane loves Shepard now. It doesn't mean he loves her any less because he had Irikah in his life.  And it doesn't lessen the memory of Irikah any less that he loves Shepard now.

In the end I don't think it really matters at all. I don't think your timeline is off. Thane was pretty young when he met her. I think maybe around 19 or 20 which is about the age his son is now. Unless my timeline is off that's about how old Kolyat should be. Thane was also very young when he became a father. 

[hanar05]

[TheSweetGirl]

^ LOL I love that, Hanar05



Thane's smirk is cute.



Makes me wish that in ME3, when you make a good shot or you are cornered by enemies, your love interest makes a comment and helps you or vice versa. Sweeeet.

[Thrazesul]

Aww, yeah, that'd be sweet. I still miss the "Shepard's been hit" from ME 1.



Would be awesome if your LIs said something different. Like how Thane said Siha when you had to decide whether to keep or blow up the collector station.

[Fiery Phoenix]

"Siha, I've made a life of killing those who deserve to die. We must struggle to not become what we hate."

[TheSweetGirl]

I miss that too.



If you die, it would be nice if the other squadmates acknowledge it.



"SHEPARD!!!"



"SIHA!!!!!"



Awwww man that would be so sad and make me be extra careful.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I absolutely love how--in the letter--Thane says something about standing at Shepard's side and protecting her with everything he is. It's just so... uh, I don't know anymore.

EDIT: @Hainkpe, yes ma'am, that would be my interpretation as well.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 03 octobre 2010 - 02:18 .

[JECWSU]

Hainkpe wrote...

I've been thinking about Thane's letter. He mentions Shepard's destiny. Do you think he now believes he was meant to find Shepard?

I love that we get that letter from him. It's jus so beautiful.
 
I think he might belive he was meant to find Shepard.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Technically, though, Shepard found Thane, not the other way around.

[Saibh]

I gotta say, we were very lucky to get that letter. Of course, Thane is also the "you silly masochist" romance, so...eh. That very dossier cemented him as my favorite romance. I was leaning there anyway, but Carth syndrome automatically lowers my opinion of any romance.



Also, what "destiny" line are we talking about? Because he talks about "succeeding in your destiny", and I assumed he meant he wants he to succeed in whatever she does. Presumably Reaper slaying.



Oh, are we just talking about theoretically, does he believe that? Maybe, sure. He's the most religious of all of the romances, and he does sort of have a fatalistic person.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I think Thane does hint on Shepard being "his destiny" anyway. And yes, the "darkness" and "destiny" mentioned at the end of the letter are most probably references to the upcoming Reaper invasion.

[CheeseEnchilada]

Love the comic, Hanar05! All your stuff is gold!
And I agree with the fate talk, both that in the letter Thane was talking about fighting the Reapers, and that he hints Shepard was his destiny. I realize that's part of the reason he's one of my favorite characters--his fatalistic views are similar to mine, yet his overall view on life is so alien. It's intriguing.
Just replayed Horizon and got Kaidan's speech. Am I the only one who thinks he and Thane would get along rather well? Hopefully the fact that I'd romanced them both won't affect it. I don't want to hear Kaidan bash Thane the way Liara did, since her choice of words were harsh.

[CheeseEnchilada]

That was beautifully written Hainkpe I can fully see your side of the argument, and I'll admit that although I'm a firm believer in fate, one must realize that just because there may be a larger plan, it doesn't mean that you can't alter it somewhat. If anyone's read the Dark Tower series by Stephen King, I feel the argument for fate is similar. While there are some things that simply seem destined to happen, you do have some sway over your world, and it can drastically affect the outcome--you just need to be persistent, and be aware.

Nothing irks me more than a fatalist who lies down and says that whatever happens, happens. While there may be a broad plan, you are the one creating the details. Fight, and you will prevail. I think Thane shows that in his romance. A passive, fully fatalistic Thane wouldn't have gotten into the romance to begin with, I think, and even if he would have, the romance scene proves he isn't content with his own fate. He's looking to change it, and stepping from passive to active. That makes all the difference in the world.

And I apologize if another person takes offense to my views on fate. I'll admit I'm not a traditionalist

Edit: Oh I can't wait for my Kaidan/Thane showdown....even though I know it'll never happen outside my head
I do forsee some tension, but not for Thane staying by Shepard. Pretty sure Bioware wants to reserve that for Garrus and Tali. I am interested in a romanced Thane interacting with a previously romanced Kaidan though. Both men have loved and lost (albet in different ways) and I think they'd be pretty level-headed with each other. Bummer. I want my shirtless man-tussle!

Oh, Virmire Survivor, if you get a DLC what will you say to us if we cheat on you? Liara already used the dead wife card!

Modifié par CheeseEnchilada, 03 octobre 2010 - 04:26 .

[kaimanaMM]

Hainkpe wrote...

I've been thinking about Thane's letter. He mentions Shepard's destiny. Do you think he now believes he was meant to find Shepard?

I actually think that Thane believes Shepard was meant to find him.

The letter says : 

I once accepted my fate. Nothing remained but a shell destined to die. I only had to choose the when and how of my passing.

Thane claims that Shepard's showing up at the Dantius Towers was a divine intervention.  For all intents and purposes he was going to die that night, one way or another.  Then along comes Shep, storming the gates, guns blazing, tearing through mercs and saving innocent salarians.  (Siha, indeed.)

Thane's a spiritual man, he believes we're all meant to do what we're meant to do.  Even thought  he'd accepted his death, in the end, he wasn't meant to die that night.  And Shep had everything to do with that.

Modifié par kaimanaMM, 03 octobre 2010 - 04:57 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

It has once been said that those who have lived a good life do not fear death, but meet it calmly, and even long for it in the face of great suffering. But those who do not have a peaceful conscience, dread death as though life means nothing but physical torment. The challenge is to live our life so that we will be prepared for death when it comes.

I wouldn't say Thane has lived a particularly good life, but nevertheless, he always seems to follow his de facto agenda no matter how obstacled he gets. It is safe to assume that, by this point, Thane has pretty much done everything he could've hoped for as of Irikah's death, and is ready to die peacefully. Shepard's presence makes him shameful of his condition, yet he still seems to accept his fate with open arms, believing that his turn in life has come to an end.

The way his letter is worded kind of reinfoces this; he wishes Shepard success and promises her the Goddess' protection. What exaclty is meant by that is anyone's guess, but one thing is for certain, Thane does seem to be at peace with his fate, even with Shepard being in love with him (and vice versa).

Overall, I agree with Hainkpe that there is a very philosophical touch to all of this -- one I don't really understand myself.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 03 octobre 2010 - 05:04 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Thane and Mordin are by far the deepest characters in the entirety of ME2, in my opinion.

[Hedgepath]

Bacteria are usually easier to cure than viruses...we only have a handful of bacteria now that we can't "cure" with antibiotics (antibx). AND - Nanotech is working in animal trials currently for resistant Staph Aureus, so in ME3 future - either the Protheans have the cure (in all that Prothean data), or Mordin develops Nanotech that encapsulates the little bacterial buggers. Also, lung transplants are a temp fix, not a cure (transplanted lungs have high risk of contracting disease again - bacteria still in patient's body!). Lung transplants don't work real well now for most folks (mortality and recurrence rate is high). However, lung lavage with antibx works VERY well now, would think in the future, it's perfected, esp in conjunction wlung transplant & nanotech!!! He only needs one side transplanted (the side with 42% loss) Here's hoping BW listens......

[Saibh]

Hedgepath wrote...

Bacteria are usually easier to cure than viruses...we only have a handful of bacteria now that we can't "cure" with antibiotics (antibx). AND - Nanotech is working in animal trials currently for resistant Staph Aureus, so in ME3 future - either the Protheans have the cure (in all that Prothean data), or Mordin develops Nanotech that encapsulates the little bacterial buggers. Also, lung transplants are a temp fix, not a cure (transplanted lungs have high risk of contracting disease again - bacteria still in patient's body!). Lung transplants don't work real well now for most folks (mortality and recurrence rate is high). However, lung lavage with antibx works VERY well now, would think in the future, it's perfected, esp in conjunction wlung transplant & nanotech!!! He only needs one side transplanted (the side with 42% loss) Here's hoping BW listens......

In the future, we are free to say "And now lung transplants can be done by jellyfish people with no casualties". Thane also isn't human, so complications arising from human anatomy aren't as applicable.

That being said, Shadow Broker DLC makes it clear Thane is a candidate for lung transplant surgery--he simply declined the offer. This is what I think will happen:

Paragon: Convince him to take the surgery, but rendering him hospitalized for the remainder of the mission and unable to help you (to what expense I don't know).
Neutral: Telling him to choose for himself, and of course he picks the mission. In this option, he is able to complete the Mission with you until the very end, where he is too far gone for surgery. He might possibly die during the game. Hopefully the game concludes with a video epilogue (instead of DAO-style epilogue cards). Maybe you see him suffocate to death in a hospital bed with you there.
Renegade: Tell him hell no, you need him there.

However, it's possible you gain access to lung transplant through illicit means, switching the morality up a little. It's also possible the game doesn't want to pigeonhole saving your love interest as a Paragon move, and instead moves it to neutral, and telling him to choose for himself a Paragon thing to do. 

It's also possible that you need Charm/Intimidate to convince him properly, and the regular options are all just different ways of telling him to stay. That could be ideal, but I always feel like neutral Shepards are cheated in ME2.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Modifié par Saibh, 03 octobre 2010 - 08:33 .

[disconnect7]

@Fiery: I agree. Mordin and Thane are my favorite characters of the series. I feel such pain for Mordin, almost pity, of the moral dilemmas he has had to deal with. He and Thane are quite similar in that way. Mordin, having difficulty sleeping at night, wishes to rationalize his work on the genophage with statistics. Also, he wished to do something good, not morally difficult, in his last decade (opening the clinic on Omega to help plague victims.)



Thane believes his body is simply the tool that killed his targets, he has been raised to use his body as a weapon, he knows no other life. He is able to protect his soul from the moral damage it would cause to him by rationalizing that his clients made the choice to kill his targets, his body was simply the tool used to kill them. Albeit, with Irikah's murderers Thane goes on the hunt purposely, torturing the murderers and leaving them with a slow death. Thane feels remorse for his actions; it is his method to kill cleanly and bring death quickly. Along with his remorse with Irikah's murderers, he feels the pain of being a deadbeat dad.



That got a bit long winded but, ahem, my point is that Mordin and Thane are similar in the way that they feel remorse for their actions and have gone down morally difficult paths.



@Hedgepath: Interesting analysis, here's to hoping indeed!