16751 réponses à ce sujet

[cindalkitty]

mashavasilec wrote...

oh but please, Cindal, let's argue about something

say, the crotch or the zipper?

No, I refuse to argue.

Your turn.

[General Ashous]

Arguing is not the way of Thane. We must remain calm and collected.

[JECWSU]

cindalkitty wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

It isn't so much that it is a part of his appeal, its more the fact that it is the single unifying characteristic of his personality. If I had the option to save him I would unless it interfered with the mission, but I would feel like his character had lost some of its meaning.

Mortality is such a huge part of his character that some sort of win button to save him would diminish who he is as expressed in ME2.

Now there's always the option for further character development and if they expand on his character to include things that aren't so centered around his mortality, then I might feel differently.

But as it stands now, it would feel cheap, there really isn't a better way to say it.

You asked about a single conversation when death isn't brought up.  In the second shipboard conversation, you learn about hanar, drell culture, and are exposed to his first instance of solipsim.  Death is not brought up once in any possible path of conversation.

Otherwise, Shepard is the one who brings it up, not Thane, with very very few exceptions, and these moments are only experienced through specific conversation choices which are possible to avoid altogether.  The meat of his conversation options and topics focus on drell culture, the hanar, his LIFE (his profession, his family, revenge) his philosophy/spirituality, and how Shepard has affected him.

In regard to character development -
In ME2, Thane transitions from his battle sleep to being awake (regardless of romance, he says his mind /had been/ dead for a long time).  And, if you romance him, you find out he doesn't want die anymore.  Assuming he dies before or even just after ME3, he's not really going to get much of a chance to develop further as a character.  In addition to "I'm dying" he says in Dantius Towers that he wants to make the galaxy brighter before he dies.  Would that change if he was going to die 40 years from now instead of tomorrow?  This is something to explore. Assuming you did his loyalty mission, he also has the chance to watch over his son and repair some things.

Given the actual topics of his conversations, he's got a solid base to grow from with plenty of avenues to explore and a lot of questions to address.   Bad writing could cheapen any of it, but that also goes for anything and anyone in the Mass Effect universe.

As everyone here is used to, people drop in from time to time and claim his disease is all there is to his character.  This is a result of people failing to realize the distinction between character traits and plot devices.  His disease is a plot device, something to be reacted to and resolved one way or another (like the subjects of the loyalty missions).  His character, however, and things that are integral to his character, are what determine how he reacts to this plot device.


If I had to pick a "single unifying characteristic of his personality" it would be his spirituality:

Irikah - he thought she was the goddess arashu herself.

Shepard - Siha, warrior angel of Arashu.

Revenge - the body working independent of the soul.  It is a source of guilt.  He's sinned.

In his work - He prays to Arashu for protection, Amonkira to find his prey, and Kalihira for when they die/prays for forgiveness.

His purpose - atonement.

His son - the only good he's ever added (see: atonement)

Death - His spirituality reinforces his understanding of acceptance (if the soul does not move on when the body dies, "accept a new way of living," it will be lost) regardless of the cause or timing.

I think this perfectly states how most of us feel. You said it much better than I could have.

[JECWSU]

It doesn't happen that often.

[abnocte]

I'm always late for dicussions.... 

Well, I agree with everybody.

We don't want to start ME3 with Thane already cured or find a cure behind some random crate.
I expect a full-fledged subplot adressing the issue, maybe finding some Prothean technology  that will further the developement of a cure, and if given to Hanar o Salarian will open a epilogue where they find a cure and Thane decides to undego the treatment... I wouldn't ask for more.


About Thane dialog being centered around his mortality, I totally fail to see it.
I mean, we DO KNOW Thane is ill, but we DON'T FEEL/SEE it. I mean, he shows no sings of it, gameplay-wise he is as able as any other squad member.

So if he is as able as any squad member, and all of them are going into a suicide mission... anyone could die. Thane illness makes no difference. Everybody is aware they may not come back. So I fail to see how Thane mortality is tied to his conversations anymore than any other squadmate....

I hope I made sense... 

[General Ashous]

Indeed, well said. As for us being disciples... I think we are Thaneists, believers in the cause of Thane. LOL.

[Pacifien]

I can't seem to write this warning in any manner that works for me, so suffice to say, everyone just refamiliarize yourselves with the welcome post to the forum here.

Modifié par Pacifien, 21 octobre 2010 - 08:08 .

[kaimanaMM]

I didn't draw the Thane zipper pic.  That belongs to the fabulous Hyperbali.  If you click on the picture it should take you to her DA profile.  <3

Nobody misquoted you GuardianAngel.  You said on page 245:

How do you guys think Thane will survive? Personally I hope he dies because it is a HUGE part of his character.

For him to live would invalidate why he was worth listening to in ME2.

You then said on page 248:

I never said he should die, I said that with the current amount of character development for him, including as I understand it the romance, curing him would be cheap.

You also said on page 247:

My opinion as of now is a standing one, subject to change if it is warranted.

I'm curious why it's apparently our job to convince you that there is more to Thane than you perceived.  Whether you choose to see him as repentant man, a guilt-ridden killer, a deadbeat dad or even see him at all since it's possible to not even recruit him, is entirely up to the person behind the screen.  

You are dead-set in thinking that Thane and his story's single most important aspect is how many minutes he has left on the clock.  I am dead-set in thinking that Thane and his story's single most important aspect is how he, and by extension Shepard, make the most of those minutes both as brothers-in-arms and possible romantic partners.  

You see quantity.  I see quality.

You're certainly allowed your opinion of the character just as I am allowed mine.  I could write up a thesis complete with index, glossary and appendix declaring Thane as the single most evolved and interesting character in the Mass Effect universe.  But it's not my job to change your opinion if you refuse to see the character from a different angle.  Nor is it my job, or the job of anyone here to convince you somehow that Thane is more than you think he is.

[cindalkitty]

I consider him converted.

And Pacifiened.

And ilu guys, but I refuse to be called a Thaneist.  Back to the drawing board.

Modifié par cindalkitty, 21 octobre 2010 - 08:04 .

[GuardianAngel470]

kaimanaMM wrote...

I didn't draw the Thane zipper pic.  That belongs to the fabulous Hyperbali.  If you click on the picture it should take you to her DA profile.  <3

Nobody misquoted you GuardianAngel.  You said on page 245:

How do you guys think Thane will survive? Personally I hope he dies because it is a HUGE part of his character.

For him to live would invalidate why he was worth listening to in ME2.

You then said on page 248:

I never said he should die, I said that with the current amount of character development for him, including as I understand it the romance, curing him would be cheap.

You also said on page 247:

My opinion as of now is a standing one, subject to change if it is warranted.

I'm curious why it's apparently our job to convince you that there is more to Thane than you perceived.  Whether you choose to see him as repentant man, a guilt-ridden killer, a deadbeat dad or even see him at all since it's possible to not even recruit him, is entirely up to the person behind the screen.  

You are dead-set in thinking that Thane and his story's single most important aspect is how many minutes he has left on the clock.  I am dead-set in thinking that Thane and his story's single most important aspect is how he, and by extension Shepard, make the most of those minutes both as brothers-in-arms and possible romantic partners.  

You see quantity.  I see quality.

You're certainly allowed your opinion of the character just as I am allowed mine.  I could write up a thesis complete with index, glossary and appendix declaring Thane as the single most evolved and interesting character in the Mass Effect universe.  But it's not my job to change your opinion if you refuse to see the character from a different angle.  Nor is it my job, or the job of anyone here to convince you somehow that Thane is more than you think he is.

But I don't think it is his single most important aspect. I said it was a huge part of how I percieved him,and I elaborated on my initial post and fully explained my intentions as I discovered them all myself, so the more important quote is the second one, after I have argued my position.

I explain later on exactly what I meant in the first post, and it isn't as callous as it seems. his mortality is a large part of his character as presented in ME2. It is the instigator of discussion on numerous occassions and is an overarching theme to who he is as he is in ME2.

His past with his wife and son are introduced after discussion of the chances of his survival. It is as large a part of his character as they are. His philosiphical and religious reaction as well as his parental reaction to it are just as important.

That is why I believe it would be cheap to have a miraculous cure, something most of you seem to agree with. A miraculous cure would be a cop out, and very lazy writing. It would taint one of the reasons I respect his character because, as he is in ME2, the only judge of him, it is too integral to his character. So many things are tied to it, accentuated by it, and simply born from it that I would feel that a cure without further character development would be a bad idea.

You say that his relationship with his family and his profession are a separate part of him, I say that because they were all introduced as a result of his mortality or at least directly after it that they are all interconnected to form the Thane of ME2. His views are all, in my mind, influenced by it.

EDIT: And it isn't your job. I came to discuss him as a character. It is Bioware's job. They hold the cards.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 21 octobre 2010 - 08:13 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Guardian, we're going in circles. Let's just agree to disagree and call it a day.

[GuardianAngel470]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Guardian, we're going in circles. Let's just agree to disagree and call it a day.

Fine.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 21 octobre 2010 - 08:24 .

[Radahldo]

YAY

[abnocte]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

You say that his relationship with his family and his profession are a separate part of him, I say that because they were all introduced as a result of his mortality or at least directly after it that they are all interconnected to form the Thane of ME2. His views are all, in my mind, influenced by it.

Both Miranda and Jacob introduce their 'families'. Both do so because they know that they can die during the suicide mission, and want to leave things resolved just in case. 

So why Miranda and Jacob personality isn't tied to their mortality?

I must insist than Thane illness is irrelevant from my point of view, because the suicide mission takes place before the illness makes its toll on Thane. So everybody has the same survival chance, so everybody feel on mortality should be the same...

[Raokin]

Hainkpe wrote...

@CIN ILU, too.
Alright, we need to have an open call for names.
What do we, devotees/disciples of Thane, call ourselves?

Thanites
Thaneists
Other - please offer an alternate

I feel that Thane would be against the idea of people wanting to follow him in any way. He is, after all, but a flawed mortal within that godlike body of his, trying to make up for his past mistakes.

[abnocte]

Thanemancers isn't an option, is
it? 

XDD

*just joking*

Modifié par abnocte, 21 octobre 2010 - 08:31 .

[cindalkitty]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

You say that his relationship with his family and his profession are a separate part of him, I say that because they were all introduced as a result of his mortality or at least directly after it that they are all interconnected to form the Thane of ME2. His views are all, in my mind, influenced by it.

Mortality influences most people's decisions, doesn't it, as a major point of self-interest?

Mortality and Thane... in spite of his line of work, in spite of having acknowledged from an early age that he was, in essence, already dead (note: due to his line of work, not his disease, which came later), he still chose to pursue a family.

This family wasn't a result of his mortality.  It was a result of love.  And it was introduced because it is something that is important to Thane and gives his character an aspect the player can possibly identify with more than the fact that he's a badass assasin lizard monk - not because he's dying or because of his mortality.

His views are shaped by his spirituality, culture, training, and life events.  Just like everyone else.



Edit:  doom.  We've agreed to disagree?  Fine, back to zipper worship.

PS: No, no thanemancer for me, either.  "mancer" holds ominous connotations.  I'll settle for being a thane loving thane lover.

Modifié par cindalkitty, 21 octobre 2010 - 08:30 .

[abnocte]

Raokin wrote...

I feel that Thane would be against the idea of people wanting to follow him in any way. He is, after all, but a flawed mortal within that godlike body of his, trying to make up for his past mistakes.

That's more than most people do....