16751 réponses à ce sujet

[Fiery Phoenix]

Persephone wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

It was made by Persephone, who is also a Loghain fan,

A Loghain fan who has neglected Thane far too much. Must play ME2 again! Thanks for recommending my video. :happy:

[abnocte]

magelet wrote...

 I think Thane and Samara would probably have some disagreements.  Samara follows a strict code about protecting the innocent, fighting the wicked etc, but Thane probably wouldn't have an issue with  hurting the innocent if he had to.  Thane follows his own ideas of morality, which are considerably looser than Samara's.  Like how he considered himself as a weapon for those who hired him, rather than being held responsible for the assassinations.  
As for Garrus, he's probably more similar to Thane than Samara.  His concept of morality is like Thane's, if he thinks they should be killed then he'll kill them.

*cough*

I have to disagree here.

Samara decisions may be based on a strict code but she clearly states when she is arrested that after one day she will kill everyone in her way, that means she will have to kill the police officers trying to detain her.
That sounds like innocent people to me... <_<

On other occasion, she comments how she killed a whole village that was being controlled by Morinth. I wonder if there was no other choice but to kill them...

So Samara follows a Code with the intention to bring justice to the wicked, but that Code overrides an innocent life If that means destroying the bigger threat. Or so I understand it...

Thane on the other hand is an assassin. By definition an assassin's job is to kill a single target going unnoticed. If Thane finds himself in a position where he has to hurt an innocent to achieve that... he did something utterly wrong.

And remember that in his recruitment mission he went out of his way to put some Salarians in a safe place.

Now another thing, is if Thane was hired to kill innocent people when he freelanced, which I'm not sure if we have enough info about his freelance time to know... ( being a while since last played ME )

[CheeseEnchilada]

/stops lurking and decides to chime in



Great post, abnocte! I love Samara, but her code is confusing sometimes. She had to stop hunting Nihlus because if she continued she could hurt an innocent, yet we have the story about Morinth's overtaken village, and the fact that she's willing to put an innocent in danger (Shep) to catch Morinth. Thane clearly cares about the innocents during his missions, as seen by the salarians, but don't forget that he used Mouse, just a child, to help him. Both might be Paragon characters overall, but it's obvious that neither of them are 'pure' Paragon; that's just illogical.



And while I think Garrus and Thane might have some small disagreements at first, I can see the two of them becoming quite close after Garrus' loyalty mission, especially if the Paragon route is taken. Revenge is a central point in Thane's life, which is why I always bring him on that mission. I like to think that while Shepard is busy with something else, Thane's describing his own experiences to Garrus.



/back to lurking

[General Ashous]

Do not sit in the shadows, come and join us. I too take Thane on Garrus' loyalty. I think it's a shame he doesn't get any extra dialogue, some helpful advice. Perhaps only saying to Shepard, don't let him do it.

[magelet]

@abnocte: Hmm, I gues Thane is more Samara-like than I thought. I suppose I was considering the difference between being a sort of moral crusader like Samara, and killing people because someone else told you to/becasue it's a job, like Thane.

[Skyline_Stanza]

CheeseEnchilada wrote...


And while I think Garrus and Thane might have some small disagreements at first, I can see the two of them becoming quite close after Garrus' loyalty mission, especially if the Paragon route is taken. Revenge is a central point in Thane's life, which is why I always bring him on that mission. I like to think that while Shepard is busy with something else, Thane's describing his own experiences to Garrus.

General Ashous wrote...

I too take Thane on Garrus' loyalty. I think it's a shame he doesn't get any extra dialogue, some helpful advice. Perhaps only saying to Shepard, don't let him do it.

Nice. I like the thought you put into these. This is going to help me with defining the relationship between Garrus and Thane. I used to take these two on the other's loyalty missions. At first it was due to gameplay (both occur on the Citadel) but then I began to RP and think of reasons they might want to accompany each other. The interactions between these two, are going to be something of a focus in my fanfic. They will have interactions with Samara, but it's going to be more or less Garrus/Thane.  

[cindalkitty]

I think Thane and Samara would probably have some disagreements. Samara follows a strict code about protecting the innocent, fighting the wicked etc, but Thane probably wouldn't have an issue with hurting the innocent if he had to.

Samara follows a strict code about right and wrong and galactic justice or whathaveyou. In her conversations, if you ask her about it, she pretty much says if it's gotten to the point that a Justicar is involved, everyone's doomed, and that's her justification for killing everyone.



Hide yo kids.



Hide yo wife.



She's killin urvryone up in hurr.



Meanwhile, the current state of Thane's assassinating isn't ever really fleshed out in game, which is kind of too bad. We know he's freelance now and that he took Nassana's contract for free and is helping Shepard for free. On the BioWare Mass Effect site, it's implied he's picking and choosing his contracts based on his own sense of personal morals and justice.



Which is sort of vigilante of him, a lot like what Garrus was doing on Omega. I'd be interested in learning how Samara feels about that sort of thing, how her Code sees this.



I think, personally and professionally, Samara and Thane have had a few things in common, but because both are so distant, I don't think it's too likely that their interactions would go much beyond a professional respect for one another's work, if only because they recognize there might be potential conflicts otherwise, and privacy. Not that it would be impossible for there to be more to it than that, but the game is set up to where both characters are portrayed as loners and Shepard is the one who is able to sort of break through their walls and pull them out of their heads a little where, with others, they might not be as likely to open up about some things. But that's nothing a good writer can't get past, right?



Meanwhile, the vigilante/revenge thing might be easier for forming a bro-ship over than Samara cooly asking, "Do I really need to know the man I am about to kill is somebody's father?" or whatever it is she says.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I don't think that Thane is distant. He seems very open, he talks about his deceased wife and his son honestly, and he talks about how he feels for them, and you can see that he really cares for them. On the other hand, Samara is very cold, she doesn't want pity, and she wants revenge and justice rather than comfort. Only her dossier reveals that she actually cares for her daughter. She is not very expressive or emotional, and Thane is.

Garrus on the other hand, will talk about his past and his hard life, but will often counteract it with a joke. For example, when he is talking about his scars. He is not as emotional as Thane, but he doesn't quite know how to deal with his loss.

My interpretation anyway...

[kaimanaMM]

So Thane, Garrus and Samara walk into a bar on Ilium ... 

I actually can see more of a friendship forming between Garrus and Thane than I can between Thane and Samara. Not to say at some point Thane and Samara wouldn't call eachother friend, but, I don't see either of them having very many close friends due to their personalities and professions.  

I think when the word 'distant' is used, it's meant that both Thane and Samara are isolated personalities used to their own insular goings on.  

Then again, I see Thane discussing Hemingway with Grunt and watching Old Yeller with Jacob.

[mllrthyme]

Hopefully this isn't too off topic, but one of my friends brought this video to my attention. It's the best tribue to Thane that I've seen yet.

[cindalkitty]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I don't think that Thane is distant. He seems very open, he talks about his deceased wife and his son honestly, and he talks about how he feels for them, and you can see that he really cares for them.

What KaimanaMM said about distant is more what I meant.

And, I agree entirely with what's quoted above, but that's what I meant about the way the game's set up.  He's very open with Shepard.  Shepard's able to pull Thane out of his head - and he'll tell you that Shepard's the first friend he's made in 10 years and that he hasn't talked to anyone about his wife... ever - where, based off of what he mentions about friends and talking about his wife, I wonder if he would bother with opening up to other members of the squad and/or someone like Samara, whom you described as cold.

And Samara's not SO bad.  She'll tell Shepard that she's spent so long on her own that it's nice to travel in the company of others again, and that she also enjoys talking to Shepard.  So, she's amiable enough... to Shepard, anyway... if you can see past the I Will Kill You If I Must stone cold harbinger of justice exterior.  And she'll still toss a motherly jibe at you if you take the poisoned drink from the batarian bartender on Omega.

Garrus is... Garrus.  He may not open up about personal stuff in ME2 (like how we only found out about his mother and sister thanks to his LotSB dossier), but that doesn't mean he can't be a good bro to a fellow sniper who's also known what it was like to lose someone due to his profession and then seek revenge for it.  Or maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see there, because I consider him my Shepard's best friend.


It is unfortunate that there's not much at all in the way of squad interactions in Mass Effect 2 like there was in ME1 in the elevators, or like there is in Dragon Age.

mllrthyme wrote...

Hopefully this isn't too off topic, but one of my friends brought this video to my attention. It's the best tribue to Thane that I've seen yet.

<3

Modifié par cindalkitty, 02 novembre 2010 - 06:35 .

[Skyline_Stanza]

Well, could you say that, due to Shepard's interaction with the the crew, that they, the squad of the Normandy 2.0, start opening up to each other? I mean, not like spilling thier guts or telling thier life stories or anything major like that. just tiny little things, like Thane or Garrus talking about different techniques for sniping? Or Thane talking about biotics with Samara or Miranda?

Hmm, I feel that's a bit off topic...so! Thane's biotics! What do you think he uses them for? We've seen his hand to hand skills and gunplay, but nothing cutscene wise (besides Suicide Mission) about his use of biotics in his assassinations. Do you think this was added after the fact or during Thane's creation? (What can I say, I'm a sucker for biotics....or turian renegades. )

Modifié par Skyline_Stanza, 02 novembre 2010 - 06:44 .

[cindalkitty]

Skyline_Stanza wrote...

Well, could you say that, due to Shepard's interaction with the the crew, that they, the squad of the Normandy 2.0, start opening up to each other? I mean, not like spilling thier guts or telling thier life stories or anything major like that. just tiny little things, like Thane or Garrus talking about different techniques for sniping? Or Thane talking about biotics with Samara or Miranda?

I could see that.  Good point

Skuline_Stanza wrote...

Hmm, I feel that's a bit off topic...so! Thane's biotics! What do you think he uses them for? We've seen his hand to hand skills and gunplay, but nothing cutscene wise (besides Suicide Mission) about his use of biotics in his assassinations. Do you think this was added after the fact or during Thane's creation? (What can I say, I'm a sucker for biotics....or turian renegades. )

Thane biotics.... I dunno.  You see him use them in the Blur Trailer in the group scene against the collectors toward the end.  Biotic barrel roll/bro fist FTW.

I could maybe argue that having biotics allows for a tiny bit more diversity than something like Kasumi's shadow strike, if only in that you can do combo things with him and a biotic Shepard or squadmate, like warp explosion, but Shadow Strike makes so much more sense for Thane's character than biotics.  Because, yeah, any solo cutscene of Thane shows him with pistols and popping out of nowhere.

But shadow strike AND his weapon damage bonus/sniper headshot damage?  That might be a little ridiculous and reason enough for the devs to leave it out.  Or maybe Shadow Strike didn't exist by the time the game launched?

Instead of biotics and the Drell Marksman +50% weapon damage, maybe Shadow Strike and Drell Marksman +50% weapon damage, trading out Sniper Rifle proficiency for Heavy Pistols instead?  But, I loves me some long-range sniper action, so, I dunno.  I also think he's the only squadmate who's both proficient in sniper rifles and uses the sniper rifle by default, while Garrus, Legion, and Zaeed all need to be switched to it... and of those 3, only Zaeed has the chance for +50% weapon damage as a Mercenary Warlord.

He'd need something to replace Throw as well.  He doesn't seem the grenades type... unless you're a Krogan.  However, only the DLC characters use grenades, so... it's an idea.  Concussive Shot?  But Garrus, Grunt, and Zaeed all have that.  Don't really consider him a techie hybrid, either, and Miranda, Kasumi, and Garrus all have Overload.

And his loyalty weapon ammo is not really useful in higher difficulties levels.  Given the state of things, I'm thinking:

4/4 Exposed Drell Chest: Doubles chance for survival.  FOR SCIENCE.
or
4/4 Trippin' Balls (Squad): area effect distraction, descreasing the likelihood that the enemies can aim effectively through all of the pretty, pretty colors and... BUGS?? OMG THERE ARE BUGS UNDER MY SKIN!!

What does he use biotics for when he's on his own?  Ima vote for opening pickle jars.

Or something.

Modifié par cindalkitty, 02 novembre 2010 - 07:44 .

[dirae]

General Ashous wrote...

Do not sit in the shadows, come and join us. I too take Thane on Garrus' loyalty. I think it's a shame he doesn't get any extra dialogue, some helpful advice. Perhaps only saying to Shepard, don't let him do it.

I'd like to delurk as well and chime in that I agree. I always bring Thane along with Garrus's quest and in my mind, they're friends as well. What friends agree perfectly on every issue?

Thane's face is kind of uncomfortable and sad in the cab during Garrus's quest.

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

I don't think that Thane is
distant. He seems very open, he talks about his deceased wife and his
son honestly, and he talks about how he feels for them, and you can see
that he really cares for them.
My interpretation anyway...

I agree heartily with this. Thane isn't distant or cold at all. He states very clearly that for many years he was in a battle sleep. A torpor, basically-- which is very reptilian, I must say. He's waking up from it, and out of practice.

For the record, Samara is in a similar position, and even says as much herself. She's glad to have a friend to talk to, but isn't used to it and is out of practice.

Modifié par dirae, 02 novembre 2010 - 09:14 .

[Skyline_Stanza]

HRMMMMMM....(that was my thinking noise)

I could see Thane with Pull in his arsenal of powers, seeing how it makes sense that it hampers a target and that, given the rare instance that Thane isn't fast enough to get to cover, he could Pull a crate or other cover to protect him. Plus, he could do the Pull+Warp combo all on his own. And he's the only other squadmate to have Warp aside Miranda, not counting an adept!Shep.

I think Shadow Strike was made after the game. Maybe it was the dev's fiddling around with Shep's class powers and figuring 'Hey! why don't we fiddle with some, tweak the Tactical Cloak, and figure out where to go from there."

XD Oh yes, I can see those powers working wonders on the battlefield.

Random Merc: I CAN'T AIM THROUGH ALL THE PRETTY. OH MAN, OH GOD, OH MAN, OH GOD.

Modifié par Skyline_Stanza, 02 novembre 2010 - 09:04 .

[Skyline_Stanza]

dirae wrote...

I'd like to delurk as well and chime in that I agree. I always bring Thane along with Garrus's quest and in my mind, they're friends as well. What friends agree perfectly on every issue?

Thane's face is kind of uncomfortable and sad in the cab during Garrus's quest.

 Really now? That's...interesting. When I get my 'canon' Femshep through ME and into ME2, I'll look for that. Ah, ME2, with all your little nuances, and the squadmates with thier facial features, you make me want to write again.  

Modifié par Skyline_Stanza, 02 novembre 2010 - 09:07 .

[dirae]

Skyline_Stanza wrote...

dirae wrote...

I'd like to delurk as well and chime in that I agree. I always bring Thane along with Garrus's quest and in my mind, they're friends as well. What friends agree perfectly on every issue?

Thane's face is kind of uncomfortable and sad in the cab during Garrus's quest.

 Really now? That's...interesting. When I get my 'canon' Femshep through ME and into ME2, I'll look for that. Ah, ME2, with all your little nuances, and the squadmates with thier facial features, you make me want to write again.  

 The camera very clearly pans over and rests on Thane's face for a moment before Garrus sets up to shoot Sidonis. I don't know what expressions other squadmates would make in that scene, because I never bring any others

its weird, there are some really nice moments you wouldnt think to look for, but then Bioware misses big things that seem really obvious to me. Like if your Shep is an Akuze survivor you can't question cerberus about their hand in the matter. Things like that.

EDIT: I've looked at the Thane photos that have been uploaded and I was wondering if anyone had actual references of what Thane looks like shirtless? I remember a while back there was a bioware article about the design process and the original concept of Thane was that he'd be shirtless. There was even a series of pictures to go with it. I can still find the articles about Thane's design process, but the pics are conspicuously absent. Unless I imagined them in the first place.

Modifié par dirae, 02 novembre 2010 - 10:46 .

[Twilight_Princess]

Ok this is random but I have to share, I did thane's loyalty in a more renegade fashion this time. So I meet mouse but I don't beat him up (that's just mean) instead I intimidated him, what happened was I got some interesting dialogue that I sort of inappropriately laughed at. Mouse tells thane;



"You gave me chocolate real chocolate"



thane then says



"(silence) I never gave my son chocolate"



I shouldn't have LOLed since it was supposed to be a serious moment >_>. Then again I reacted the same way when a turian in noveria said “I know what I could go for? A DOUGNUT!” it’s just funny when aliens say they like chocolate and doughnuts, it catches you off guard.

[JECWSU]

dirae wrote...

 The camera very clearly pans over and rests on Thane's face for a moment before Garrus sets up to shoot Sidonis. I don't know what expressions other squadmates would make in that scene, because I never bring any others

its weird, there are some really nice moments you wouldnt think to look for, but then Bioware misses big things that seem really obvious to me. Like if your Shep is an Akuze survivor you can't question cerberus about their hand in the matter. Things like that.

I didn't know that  happenes either.  I always bring Tali, and since I can't see her face I don't know what expression she makes. I don't know why I never brought Thane. I'm going to have to do that on my next playthrough. 

I have to shepards that were on Akuze and I thought it was a bit odd that  you don't at least get to say anything to  cerberus about it. It's as if Shepard just forgot.

Modifié par JECWSU, 03 novembre 2010 - 08:53 .

[Skyline_Stanza]

JECWSU wrote...

dirae wrote...

 The camera very clearly pans over and rests on Thane's face for a moment before Garrus sets up to shoot Sidonis. I don't know what expressions other squadmates would make in that scene, because I never bring any others

its weird, there are some really nice moments you wouldnt think to look for, but then Bioware misses big things that seem really obvious to me. Like if your Shep is an Akuze survivor you can't question cerberus about their hand in the matter. Things like that.

I didn't know that  happenes either.  I always bring Tali, and since I can't see her face I don't know what expression she makes. I don't know why I never brought Thane. I'm going to have to do that on my next playthrough. 

I have to shepards that were on Akuze and I thought it was a bit odd that  you don't at least get to say anything to  cerberus about it. It's as if Shepard just forgot.

I suppose that's what fanfiction is for, correct?

Modifié par Skyline_Stanza, 04 novembre 2010 - 01:35 .

[JECWSU]

Skyline_Stanza wrote...

JECWSU wrote...

dirae wrote...

 The camera very clearly pans over and rests on Thane's face for a moment before Garrus sets up to shoot Sidonis. I don't know what expressions other squadmates would make in that scene, because I never bring any others

its weird, there are some really nice moments you wouldnt think to look for, but then Bioware misses big things that seem really obvious to me. Like if your Shep is an Akuze survivor you can't question cerberus about their hand in the matter. Things like that.

I didn't know that  happenes either.  I always bring Tali, and since I can't see her face I don't know what expression she makes. I don't know why I never brought Thane. I'm going to have to do that on my next playthrough. 

I have to shepards that were on Akuze and I thought it was a bit odd that  you don't at least get to say anything to  cerberus about it. It's as if Shepard just forgot.

I suppose that's what fanriction is for, correct?

Well I love good fanfiction. Especially if Thane is in it.

[JECWSU]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

Ok this is random but I have to share, I did thane's loyalty in a more renegade fashion this time. So I meet mouse but I don't beat him up (that's just mean) instead I intimidated him, what happened was I got some interesting dialogue that I sort of inappropriately laughed at. Mouse tells thane;

"You gave me chocolate real chocolate"

thane then says

"(silence) I never gave my son chocolate"

I shouldn't have LOLed since it was supposed to be a serious moment >_>. Then again I reacted the same way when a turian in noveria said “I know what I could go for? A DOUGNUT!” it’s just funny when aliens say they like chocolate and doughnuts, it catches you off guard.

I don't think I have ever gotten the lines about the chocolate. I don't always like picking the renegade options. I may do it just this once to hear him say the lines.

[JECWSU]

I have a hard time with renegade also, so I do't know if I will ever hear those lines. I didn't even know he said that because I always pick the paragon lines.

[General Ashous]

I am a paragon through and through. However, I do have a renegade waiting to be imported so I may hear those lines at some point. But I doubt that will be for a long... long... long time.