16751 réponses à ce sujet

[Roxy]

@Beaniebat    That's true with me too I didn't play ME for just the romance,although romance adds alot of good in the game I played because of the action and story. It amazes me how this company thinks we should bow down to them and accept the crap they gave us with Thane....especially when they knew we wanted to save Thane right from the start.
I see nothing wrong with us gettin a choice to save a Great character that they made and now they just want to throw him in the trash and Gaider/BioWare want to *itch and moan about what we are upset about and we have every right to complain! *shakes head*


EDIT: Yay Thane pic time!!!!

Modifié par Roxy, 14 janvier 2013 - 09:31 .

[BeanieBat]

Vlk3 wrote...

And, well, Gaider complains about people's posts on BSN and general atmosphere here, but he forgets that what's really toxic on these forums is the attitude he's just shown...

People who won't even try to understand the point we're making are putting some words in our mouths that are ridiculous and claim that this is what we said we wanted.

This is exactly what I was trying to say! And the fact that it comes from a BioWare employee rather than a random troll only just amplifies my frustration. It also encourages the trolls to continue. It's no wonder the BSN has such a bad reputation.

Edit: @Roxy - That's where the "plausibility" issue he uses against us comes in, for me. It is plausible for Thane to be treated based on the information in game. We know that. Do BioWare? They didn't even know he was a romance option. A cure is more of a long shot, but so was the genophage in my playthrough! Bottom line is, they could have worked it in with good story writing. If they insisted on a dark romance, if it were written properly it might have worked... who knows? What we were given was only an afterthought and it shows. They know it too and they're trying to cover it up.

Modifié par BeanieBat, 14 janvier 2013 - 08:59 .

[Roxy]

@giftfish Oh wow...that is..wow is all I can say to that pic you posted lol.... I ♥ it!

@Beanie I thought games were supposed to be fun and make you happy,yet with BioWare it's like the opposite....When you mess up BioWare you admit it and fix it that's how you can get the respect back but I don't think this company knows how lol....

EDIT: Idk why this company wants to put in break ups and tragedy's towards the LI's that people pick...that's not what alot of customers want Bioware. Out of all their customers 99.9 % percent of them don't want to get a horrible romance/ending with their LI's.

Modifié par Roxy, 14 janvier 2013 - 10:28 .

[Thrazesul]

Stilographium wrote...

Hi, I just came here to vent.

I noticed the mention of this EuroGamer article (http://www.eurogamer...riter-discusses) on Cosmic Love, followed the link and ended up reading that blog post David Gaider made about romances. Of course, I mostly focused on the little part about Thane. And now I just can't even.

From Gaider's blog post:
There are people who did (and still do) think that, having selected Thane as their romance, they should have been able to cure him of his illness and make everything better. Why? Because he’s their romance, and they’re entitled to have it be a happy one. Regardless of whether you think they are justified in feeling so, they do. I don’t think plausibility is really what they’re looking for.

What the f**k?! It's been what, almost a year and people still can't see what is the real issue with Thane's ME3 romance? I haven't heard anyone saying that they wanted to save Thane because "he was their love interest" or they "wanted to have a happy romance". And what the heck does he mean with "and make everything better"? Puppies and rainbows? Who ever asked for that? Hell, not everyone even wanted to save Thane. They just wanted to have a romance arc that makes some freaking sense. And in this case, I feel like saving Thane, even with some stupid space magic makes a lot more sense than what we got. Has Gaider ever actually listened to what Thanemancers have to say about this issue? Not to mention, played Thane's romance? I didn't think so.

Well at least he acknowledges that the fans don't want more Thane or Jacob kind of romances. I guess we don't need to be afraid of seeing something like that in DA3.

Phew sorry, had to vent somewhere. I hate it how reading  something like that still manages to ruin my day.

But now that that has been dealt with, I do agree with Gaider in one point: not every character needs to be romanceable; some characters might even suffer from it (can't think of an example right now, but...). Otherwise, I was a little disappointed in how little romances mean to him. To me, they are one of the highlights of any RPG game.

For pity's sake! Bioware, just get the point, please...

Modifié par Thrazesul, 14 janvier 2013 - 10:47 .

[coldwetn0se]

Quality content is what most of us expect. Utilizing all aspects of in-game lore and storylines, to move the characters forward (romance or not), makes the characters "rich", satisfying, and immersive (get ya mind outta da gutter, Shell! XD). Thane had no character development in me3. None. And what growth was shown in the romance storyline from ME2, was removed. We couldn't even choose how our Shepards were allowed to react (same with Jacob). I felt disconnected with my Shepard way too many times in me3, but that part just severed it! I felt neutered. Throw the nonsensical stuff in there (i.e. changing the disease, ignoring time-lines, illogical fight scene, and shoehorning a character into an established plotline), and I was done.

[Emeraldfern]

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

I would headdesk had I not already flipped my desk.
I guess a *FloorThump* will suffice.

Seriously, the level of ignorance is...I have no word. Nor do I have one for the "Lalala! can't hear you attitude". And ditto on missing the point by miles.

So let's see, absence of a character arc is apparantely plausible. Turning a character's motivation around 180 with no explaination is plausible. So is changing the very nature of said illness. De-volving the PC's relationship with Thane as no more than "Hospital Nookie" is plausible.

And it is plausible for Shepard to stand around like an incompetent fool while Thane is fighting Leng in CQC. Despite you know, the fact that Shepard has succesfully done the following in the past: tackled a Yahg in CQC, or with the help of another squadmate, broken a stand-still with a Spectre holding an innocent hostage. Yes, Shep standing still = Plausible.

Not to mention that Thane living through ME3's events ≠ "Sunshine and Rainbows".
Wether the means of such survival would be attributed to treatment, which already exists in the lore, or through a cure*, neither of them is an "automatic ticket to happy-timez". They would only be as "Sunshine and bunnies" as they would be written. Just as "le tragic death" is only as tragic as it is written. Ie the circumstances surrounding said death carry the emotional gravitas for the intended emotional impact. Which it didn't. And again, so it is with survival; it would hold emotional impact if it was properly written, the impact of such an event reflected in the characters.

*/ Because in my honest opinion, I wouldn't find a cure for Kepral Syndrome less plausible than gaining the knowledge & language of an entire species through a genetically shared memory, reviving a dead commander, curing the Krogan genophage in record time, the Quarian's swift adaption to Rannoch, or a WMD with RGB explosions, all which happened in-game.

Or, if I may be bold, no less plausible than curing a Grey Warden of the taint in an extended universe novel. Or a certain Arl with miracle ashes for that matter. Funny, I could have sworn that last one just occured in the game I played yesterday.

And how convenient that Jacob wasn't mentioned. Was Jacob's romance in ME3 "plausible" too?
Or Samara's?

(In case my sarcasm has gone rusty these days, I'll just point out that alot of it is present in this post)

Modifié par Emeraldfern, 15 janvier 2013 - 12:12 .

[wildannie]

You know, whatever. If they BW want to play that game and stand by f***ing fans over then that's fine I'm hardly lining up to give them any more of my money. me not playing games is of no loss to anyone except those who make them, I have no problem putting gaming in the guilty pleasure area of my life and choosing to no longer indulge I've got 100 things to do that are more productive any day of the week.
That DG is so stupid as to think that making players choices over 3 games and around 6 years obsolete is okay just shows how low they have fallen. The arrogance is a little nauseating, but tempered with a massive dollop of 'i don't really care any more' is fairly palatable.

I find it hard to not visit BSN because I have a lot of love and respect for everyone who's been posting here for the last few years. but in all honesty that is the only reason I still visit here. BW as a company and anything they might do is only of passing interest and I have a solid aim to avoid funding their projects wherever I can (2nd hand and discounts). While DG has written some of my favourite characters in game (Zevran) he's hardly a giant in the world of fiction, his books are mediocre at best and I'm hardly in awe of his talent. So whatever his take on anything holds little weight/respect, although I do respect that he's managed to make a living out of it.

As the end to an epic trilogy ME3 was utter and complete ****e. That is a fact and one that I can never imagine me reconsidering.

Modifié par wildannie, 15 janvier 2013 - 01:24 .

[DineBoo]

This is all headdesk and table flipping worthy. I'm so sorry guys.

My issue with this? If romances weren't all supposed to be rainbows and sunshine, how come broShep's are (ignoring Miri/Jack for a bit here) and femShep's aren't? Why does he get the girl/guy in the end? I thought the romances are supposed to be realistic?

If they were really trying to drive that point home, they failed miserably. Why didn't Miri run off with some broShep clone? Jack with a renegade biotic? Tali dying despite your choices?

I also see Jacob get's ignored when BW talks about this. Typical, since you can't explain Jacob's "arc" away AT ALL.

[mnomaha]

Isn't there a thread on this idiotic blog of his in the ME3 forum?

[Twilight_Princess]

*edit*

Not yet but I'm reading the tumblr notes. Some great replies so far, pointing out how mistaken Gaider is about how Thane was treated. If anyone has an account it might be a good idea to say something

Here

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 15 janvier 2013 - 05:42 .

[mnomaha]

I can't effing stand the chaos of Tumblr. How can you tell he replied? Is it in his normal holier-than-thou tone?

[Twilight_Princess]

I can't either apparently because, whoops, no he hasn't.  My bad *derp* Still, might still be good to reply anyways. Tumblr is not something I use so it's still a bit foreign to me.

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 15 janvier 2013 - 05:44 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

To be entirely fair to Gaider, speaking from a position of ignorance and a position of malice are not the same thing. There's very little in the base ME2 game that indicates a plausible cure within Thane's lifespan. Thane even says so himself.  Everything that turns a cure from "happy ending wish fulfillment" to "plausible" is buried in codices, Cerberus News, DLC, etc.  I very much doubt Gaider went over that stuff as exhaustively as we have.  And he's not responsible for all that knowledge; when it comes to the ME franchise, he's strictly a gamer and not a developer.

He also did make several very good points defending so-called "fangirls," which we've been called plenty often.

That being said, I do think all he managed to do was kick a hornet's nest.  There's something in that blog post to ruffle everyone's feathers.  Shame, really, because most of his other posts on BioWare's writing process and character design are really interesting.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 15 janvier 2013 - 12:30 .

[mythlover20]

Well, I wrote a letter in reply, and sent it via tumblr. I don't expect him to reply, or even to read it, or if he does to get past the first paragraph. But I wrote it anyway. I saved it though just in case I decide to do an open letter and post it on the ME3 forums.

[JECW]

It looks like he may have responded to someone.
I haven't seen one Thane fan who is upset simply because they couldn't cure him, so I don't know what he's talking about. Maybe before he opens his mouth maybe he should actually read what Thane fans have said and not just skim over it.

http://dgaider.tumbl...-follower-depth

Modifié par JECW, 15 janvier 2013 - 06:21 .

[mnomaha]

Hm, perhaps then he, as a Dragon Age writer, should not mention things Mass Effect if he has no major knowledge of them. Perhaps he should stick to what he does know.

Thanks Jecw, wouldn't have seen that otherwise.

[Stilographium]

@JECW I read that, too. I guess we should be glad he bothered to respond, but his attitude still rubs me the wrong way. It's like he still thinks that anyone who wants Thane alive, no matter why or how they want him alive, falls to the group of "stupid fangirls".

I admit, I once believed that an option to save Thane would be too much to ask for, and that I could, or should be satisfied if we just got more and better content with him. But after realizing how much different cures were foreshadowed and how unfair it was to kill Thane when everyone else got an option to be saved, etc etc, I changed my mind. I think that if Gaider had all the knowledge about Thane that is available, he might agree with, or at least understand those of us who want an option to save Thane. Perhaps he would still think it is fine to create a tragic and bittersweet romance, but I doubt even he could excuse all those hints about the cure. On the other hand, he does seem to ignore how stupidly Thane went away even if not romanced...

[Belisarius25]

Stilographium wrote... On the other hand, he does seem to ignore how stupidly Thane went away even if not romanced...

To be fair, the ME3 writers didn't give him much to work with there  Hard to defend "one dialogue and killed by Captain Cutscene, Kai Leng".

[JECW]

@Stilographium
I agree with everything you have said.
His attitude still bothered me as well. It's like he thinks we shouldn't even question his opinion on a game he didn't eve work on.

@mnomaha
I agree.
He should stick with what he knows and that clearly isn't Mass Effect. There certainly wasn't any reason for him to single out this fanbase.

[giftfish]

Hey ladies/gents --

Cosmic Love's response to the Gaider post is up on the blog

Enjoy!

[coldwetn0se]

Okay Thane Thread, the Cosmic Love blog has put together our own response to DG's personal blog post.  Feel free to give it a look, and as always......LOVE US!!  LOL

**EDIT**

Bah! Ninja'd  (YAY though......this is the first time I have been able to properly use that emoticon.  *sob*)

Modifié par coldwetn0se, 15 janvier 2013 - 08:42 .

[giftfish]

muuuuhahahhahahahah!

[mnomaha]

I gave you a nice lengthy reply on the blog.

[Sable Rhapsody]

mnomaha wrote...

Hm, perhaps then he, as a Dragon Age writer, should not mention things Mass Effect if he has no major knowledge of them. Perhaps he should stick to what he does know.

Tumblr, BSN, and most other Internet social sites would have a lot fewer posts if everyone had to know all the details of what they're talking about   Having shoved my own foot down my throat a few times when it comes to Thane, I feel a little odd saying it's inexcusable when someone else does it.