16751 réponses à ce sujet

[Belisarius25]

JECW wrote...

That is sad and very true.
I don't know why they feel Thane getting a cure would effect their game.

Some people get really possessive/aggressive about what Shepard's story "should" be, especially when it comes to love interest-related stuff - that and if it's a character they're not attached to, they often times dismiss any concerns related to them (which is sort of ironic because if someone does the same to their characters they get upset).

I also don't think some people realize that Thane's treatment in ME3 isn't a tragic romance like, say (using Bioware examples), Warden/Alistair (if one dies to kill the archdemon) or PC/Viconia (with her "good") romance epilogue) - it's a romance the writers in ME3 apparently forgot about or didn't put any energy into and it shows - lack of real dialogue, the fight scene, the way his disease is treated (by the writers I mean).

The most positive thing I can say about the writing is that he at least tried to contact you while you were imprisoned while basically every other character ignored you.

Modifié par Belisarius25, 25 janvier 2013 - 02:38 .

[disc0nnect7]

Ya know, I've never seen people campaign so hard for a non villainous characters' death. It's baffling. As much as they say Thane was "always meant to die" it'll never help me understand why they feel so strongly about it. It wouldn't affect their game at all if we at least had a CHOICE. Isn't that what Mass Effect used to stand for-player choice?

They seem obsessed with the fact that there are casualties in every war, blah blah blah not everyone can survive, yet those same people go around shrieking I WANT MY BLUE BABIES NAO I WANT MY HAPPY ENDING. They want their happy ending, yet we're not allowed to want ours?

Modifié par disc0nnect7, 25 janvier 2013 - 03:31 .

[mnomaha]

Yeah, exactly on all of this. They seem to think we are whining, ****ing and/or moaning about it. We just want the same treatment that the other characters got...except Jacob. Nobody wants that.

[Twilight_Princess]

disc0nnect7 wrote...

Ya know, I've never seen people campaign so hard for a non villainous characters' death. It's baffling. As much as they say Thane was "always meant to die" it'll never help me understand why they feel so strongly about it. It wouldn't affect their game at all if we at least had a CHOICE. Isn't that what Mass Effect used to stand for-player choice?

If I may *takes a puff from pipe* I have one theory.


I believe this has something to do with insecurity for LIKING that Thane died the way he did. Let me explain. Thane’s death (as it stands) is a no choice situation and therefore has become canon to the eyes of many So people learnt to wax poetic about it despite the obvious inconsistencies and mistakes. It happens no matter what so might as well just accept it and love it right? “It’s amazing! It’s emotional! Blah blah blah”.

So when a poster comes along and says “That’s great and all guys but can we also have a choice to keep him alive?” Suddenly there is a realization that if they HAD the choice in the beginning they probably wouldn’t have such a hard on for that death after all.

The general rule is that most people will try to save as many people as they can in the mass effect games and if Thane was given a choice from the get go MOST would have saved him and it would have been a non issue. Isn’t it interesting that people have actually said that a choice to keep him alive would invalidate their choice? That’s odd considering how some have kept Mordin alive in their playthroughs but no one screams about how those people invalidate them . Something else is going on here.

With Mordin his optional death was different. You loved the guy but most would rather save the entire krogan race, than keep him alive. Again, creating the most amount of happiness out of a bad situation. So liking that Mordin died for the whole krogan race is different to just liking the death Thane got. Mordin’s could be prevented for one, it was built up well and like I said before his death resulted in a big pay off.

What was the payoff to Thane’s death? By comparison it seems very worthless and pointless. So the IDEA of a choice being added makes some shift uncomfortably because they don’t want the choice to exist full stop. Such a hypothetical choice would put a big ol spotlight on the “perfect death” they love so much . They would feel  even more insecure about it when people start to choose his survival rather than watch him die pointlessly every single playthrough.

One of the complaints I’ve seen regarding the players who want a better ending is that such a choice existing would mean “EVERYONE would pick that!”. So hold on. So you don’t want them to get the ending they want because...you don’t want other players to prefer it? Making your choice less popular? I think this can be compared to Thane’s situation. Some like the crap they were spoon-fed and resent anyone who doesn’t like or accept what they were given. Most of all they don’t want it to be obvious that what they were given was indeed crap after all and worse...THAT THEY LIKED IT.

Of course I could be wrong and this pipe just makes bubbles so

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 25 janvier 2013 - 06:03 .

[coldwetn0se]

Typing on my phone sux, but "hot damn", @Hyrule!! I would say that you sucessfully described most who vehemently try and quash anyones hopes (wishes/personal head canons) for something they feel "obligated" to defend liking. Had the choices been there from the get go, this would be a "non-starter" for most.

Hand cramp...must go to bed. Sorry for text errors......

[mythlover20]

Just letting everyone, especially mnomaha, know I made it home safely, despite the flooding up this way. Thane Plushie is sleeping in bed (lazy bastard), and I'm going to go clean.

I should have left the cockroach repellant on while I was away. *brain damaging headdesk*

Also.... one more thing...

http://mythlover20.d...et=144#/d5gpgnd

http://mythlover20.d...et=168#/d5fvr6g

Gods I love his back. It's just so damn sexy. *drool*

Oh, OH! Have you girls read this fic yet by nerdymum? You have to! It's SO FUNNY!

http://nerdymum.devi...ter-1-350020859

[bananflugan14]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

disc0nnect7 wrote...

Ya know, I've never seen people campaign so hard for a non villainous characters' death. It's baffling. As much as they say Thane was "always meant to die" it'll never help me understand why they feel so strongly about it. It wouldn't affect their game at all if we at least had a CHOICE. Isn't that what Mass Effect used to stand for-player choice?

If I may *takes a puff from pipe* I have one theory.


I believe this has something to do with insecurity for LIKING that Thane died the way he did. Let me explain. Thane’s death (as it stands) is a no choice situation and therefore has become canon to the eyes of many So people learnt to wax poetic about it despite the obvious inconsistencies and mistakes. It happens no matter what so might as well just accept it and love it right? “It’s amazing! It’s emotional! Blah blah blah”.

So when a poster comes along and says “That’s great and all guys but can we also have a choice to keep him alive?” Suddenly there is a realization that if they HAD the choice in the beginning they probably wouldn’t have such a hard on for that death after all.

The general rule is that most people will try to save as many people as they can in the mass effect games and if Thane was given a choice from the get go MOST would have saved him and it would have been a non issue. Isn’t it interesting that people have actually said that a choice to keep him alive would invalidate their choice? That’s odd considering how some have kept Mordin alive in their playthroughs but no one screams about how those people invalidate them . Something else is going on here.

With Mordin his optional death was different. You loved the guy but most would rather save the entire krogan race, than keep him alive. Again, creating the most amount of happiness out of a bad situation. So liking that Mordin died for the whole krogan race is different to just liking the death Thane got. Mordin’s could be prevented for one, it was built up well and like I said before his death resulted in a big pay off.

What was the payoff to Thane’s death? By comparison it seems very worthless and pointless. So the IDEA of a choice being added makes some shift uncomfortably because they don’t want the choice to exist full stop. Such a hypothetical choice would put a big ol spotlight on the “perfect death” they love so much . They would feel  even more insecure about it when people start to choose his survival rather than watch him die pointlessly every single playthrough.

One of the complaints I’ve seen regarding the players who want a better ending is that such a choice existing would mean “EVERYONE would pick that!”. So hold on. So you don’t want them to get the ending they want because...you don’t want other players to prefer it? Making your choice less popular? I think this can be compared to Thane’s situation. Some like the crap they were spoon-fed and resent anyone who doesn’t like or accept what they were given. Most of all they don’t want it to be obvious that what they were given was indeed crap after all and worse...THAT THEY LIKED IT.

Of course I could be wrong and this pipe just makes bubbles so

I kinda agree, but if they would bring an optional choice for Thane (that you can extend or cure him) It should have devastating consequenses since Shep will spend her time saving her drell instead of maybe...I dunno...gaining more war assets or something, so the choice would be almost equally hard as to Mordin's death meaning maybe that only those that romanced him might actually pursue it cause it would be def EASIER to go with the original ending, but for a romanced shep...she would do ANYTHING to cure the one thing that actually keeps her going without falling completely apart in the war.

And that if you manage to cure Kepral's that you gain maybe war assets from the drell but lose maybe something else. So that people that want to still keep the original ending won't feel that they are missing out on more war assets or a great side-quest. I dunno.

God I can't make sense through my morning tears, so sorry for my ramblings lol. And if someone has said this before, wups! GOOD MOOOORNING BTW good people 

[RGC_Ines]

Im curious if Devs/anti-Thane players really understand what Thane fans really are thinking/want..Thane returns in ME3 just looks like " last minute" add-on...Thane writer changed his illiness, also forgot that he is an LI, I think he ever forgot that Thane had to retun in ME3. Did Devs put Thane into game right before ME3 went gold or something? Letter from LotSB used again , pathetically cheap dialog, lack of any emotional reactions from Shepard in certain game events, so called " intimate" situation in hospital, lack of choices, and really poorly done Kai Leng vs Thane fight. Plus everything dominated by Kaidan theme if player romanced with VS in ME1....pathetic. So Devs and anti-Thane players as a Thane fangirl I will tell You what I really want:
-I want to have chance to tell Kaidan directly that Shep is in love with " assasin"
-I want to tell Liara at the Mars that Kaidan isn't for Shepard the reason she is living for...( god I hated this scene and this looks from Kaidan)
-I want to tell Thane that Shepard love him
-give me good dialog and change this pathetic sex scene right before everyone Huerta's patients and workers eyes
-make Shepard feel someting when Thane is wounded by Kai Leng...why for god sake she react so histerically after Kaidan was beaten by mech while she didn't care about him anymore ( Im renegade to him at the Mars becouse paragon dialog is too stupid and out of my personality), and feel nothing when her LI is fighting/wounded ?
-give me BioWare even a little chance to save Thane if not, give me at last a chance to mourn him propely . Also why no one from ME2 crew ( Tali, Garrus or Liara) never mentioned Thane death and tried to comfort Shepard?

well...I don't have any hope that Devs will fix something and I feel sorry for Thane fans...Jacob's fans were screwed too...and after Mr.Gaider twiter about romances in ME3 I feel even worse...but to be honest I don't care anymore..Im playing my head cannon where I have to do Hannar Diplomat mission to save Kahje and after fight against Leng Thane is in coma and taken by Kolyat to theirs homeworld where he will be cured...

[Vlk3]

RGC_Ines wrote...

Im curious if Devs/anti-Thane players really understand what Thane fans really are thinking/want..Thane returns in ME3 just looks like " last minute" add-on...Thane writer changed his illiness, also forgot that he is an LI, I think he ever forgot that Thane had to retun in ME3. Did Devs put Thane into game right before ME3 went gold or something? Letter from LotSB used again , pathetically cheap dialog, lack of any emotional reactions from Shepard in certain game events, so called " intimate" situation in hospital, lack of choices, and really poorly done Kai Leng vs Thane fight. Plus everything dominated by Kaidan theme if player romanced with VS in ME1....pathetic. So Devs and anti-Thane players as a Thane fangirl I will tell You what I really want:
-I want to have chance to tell Kaidan directly that Shep is in love with " assasin"
-I want to tell Liara at the Mars that Kaidan isn't for Shepard the reason she is living for...( god I hated this scene and this looks from Kaidan)
-I want to tell Thane that Shepard love him
-give me good dialog and change this pathetic sex scene right before everyone Huerta's patients and workers eyes
-make Shepard feel someting when Thane is wounded by Kai Leng...why for god sake she react so histerically after Kaidan was beaten by mech while she didn't care about him anymore ( Im renegade to him at the Mars becouse paragon dialog is too stupid and out of my personality), and feel nothing when her LI is fighting/wounded ?
-give me BioWare even a little chance to save Thane if not, give me at last a chance to mourn him propely . Also why no one from ME2 crew ( Tali, Garrus or Liara) never mentioned Thane death and tried to comfort Shepard?

well...I don't have any hope that Devs will fix something and I feel sorry for Thane fans...Jacob's fans were screwed too...and after Mr.Gaider twiter about romances in ME3 I feel even worse...but to be honest I don't care anymore..Im playing my head cannon where I have to do Hannar Diplomat mission to save Kahje and after fight against Leng Thane is in coma and taken by Kolyat to theirs homeworld where he will be cured...

It's the same for me. I really hate to make changes to the game, so I try to adapt my headcanon to the in-game content. They gave me a great opportunity, since Thane is in fact, breathing after his death. I just pretend Shep thought that it is over and ran away from there in shock. There is a great reunion a few years after the war... But it's still lame a bit. There were too many things that went wrong with this romance to accept it.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Vlk3 wrote...
They gave me a great opportunity, since Thane is in fact, breathing after his death. I just pretend Shep thought that it is over and ran away from there in shock. There is a great reunion a few years after the war... But it's still lame a bit. There were too many things that went wrong with this romance to accept it.

Wait, Thane's model is still breathing after his death scene?  How did I not know this?  

bananflugan14 wrote...
I kinda agree, but if they would bring an optional choice for Thane (that you can extend or cure him) It should have devastating consequenses since Shep will spend her time saving her drell instead of maybe...I dunno...gaining more war assets or something, so the choice would be almost equally hard as to Mordin's death meaning maybe that only those that romanced him might actually pursue it cause it would be def EASIER to go with the original ending, but for a romanced shep...she would do ANYTHING to cure the one thing that actually keeps her going without falling completely apart in the war.

TBH I think Mordin's death was a no-brainer for most people, since the option to have Mordin live doesn't appear at all unless your events unfold just so.  Yet that choice exists, even though few people took it, and no choice for Thane or Jacob.  I was really surprised when I found out I could save Mordin, but going all the way back to ME1 and f***ing over an entire race for one salarian?  Pbbt.  You can mess up the krogans (and by extension possibly the turians), quarians, geth, hanar, and elcor, but there's no option to screw over the asari, because they're EVERYONE'S FAVORITES 

One thing that I did really like about Mordin's choice was how it depended on your actions across all 3 games.  Obviously the same wouldn't be applicable for Thane since drell didn't even exist in ME1, but having an option to save him contingent on his loyalty would make sense.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 25 janvier 2013 - 10:00 .

[RGC_Ines]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Wait, Thane's model is still breathing after his death scene?  How did I not know this?  

Yes he is still breathing in my game too....Once I had better bug also. I edited my game save from ME2 that Thane died in SM...but when I went to Huerta Hospital he was still there next to window. While Kirrahe died on Citadel saving Council I could very easy imagine that Thane is still alive and on his way to Kahje.
Anyway Im very curious why Mordin couldn't help Thane with Kepral Syndrome. Mordin was genious, he cured genocide and still wasn't able to find a way to stop/or slow down Kepral Syndrome?

[Tinve]

I just want my happy ending...

[Twilight_Princess]

Tinve wrote...

I just want my happy ending...

I know , I know, we all do



They said they will show a teaser for the new DLC soon...I only hope it contains something that will make things better for all of us.

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 25 janvier 2013 - 03:47 .

[Thrazesul]

That's a painful hope. I hoped my heart to bits at the start of ME3 when I sat here and waited for something positive for those who got the game before us in EU. Never again. At most I'm hoping the DLC isn't another wasteful extra mission like Omega.

First choice for that DLC is fixed ME2 crew/romances... (Not happening)
Second choice is that Garrus comes back for my Shepard... (Not happening either)

I don't care about much else...

I mean could I at least have Garrus telling Kaidan to go to hell or something, since Shepard can't tell him to do so apparantly! -.-

Also, I need to know. Does Kaidan still give that look of longing to Shepard and other way around even if you DIDN'T romance him in ME1, on Mars? Cause they exhanged looks at Liara's question and I did romance Kaidan in ME1, and then swapped to Garrus, on purpose. But the scene remains the same even if he's not romanced since ME1?

Sigh, had to respond in that headcanon thread again, since it was again assumed Thane was at peace, when he wasn't! I really wish people could understand this and look at BOTH sides.

Modifié par Thrazesul, 25 janvier 2013 - 06:10 .

[bananflugan14]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Vlk3 wrote...
They gave me a great opportunity, since Thane is in fact, breathing after his death. I just pretend Shep thought that it is over and ran away from there in shock. There is a great reunion a few years after the war... But it's still lame a bit. There were too many things that went wrong with this romance to accept it.

Wait, Thane's model is still breathing after his death scene?  How did I not know this?  

bananflugan14 wrote...
I kinda agree, but if they would bring an optional choice for Thane (that you can extend or cure him) It should have devastating consequenses since Shep will spend her time saving her drell instead of maybe...I dunno...gaining more war assets or something, so the choice would be almost equally hard as to Mordin's death meaning maybe that only those that romanced him might actually pursue it cause it would be def EASIER to go with the original ending, but for a romanced shep...she would do ANYTHING to cure the one thing that actually keeps her going without falling completely apart in the war.

TBH I think Mordin's death was a no-brainer for most people, since the option to have Mordin live doesn't appear at all unless your events unfold just so.  Yet that choice exists, even though few people took it, and no choice for Thane or Jacob.  I was really surprised when I found out I could save Mordin, but going all the way back to ME1 and f***ing over an entire race for one salarian?  Pbbt.  You can mess up the krogans (and by extension possibly the turians), quarians, geth, hanar, and elcor, but there's no option to screw over the asari, because they're EVERYONE'S FAVORITES 

One thing that I did really like about Mordin's choice was how it depended on your actions across all 3 games.  Obviously the same wouldn't be applicable for Thane since drell didn't even exist in ME1, but having an option to save him contingent on his loyalty would make sense.

But...but....Mordin  But yeh that's kinda true...didn't really know what refererence I could otherwise take to make somewhat sense and I'm not used to these forums and actually engaging in them so I feel like an idiot when I write something. But I'll try to actually think before I say something next time. The fact that I'm incredibly shy just ads to the Idiot factor.

But anything I have to say about Thane has been said before so there is no point to that. I just wanna be able to have the CHOICE to save him.

I guess the last glimmer of hope (the 0,0000001 % chance) that the next DLC that comes out will have something that can add to Thane's story.

[Sable Rhapsody]

RGC_Ines wrote...
Yes he is still breathing in my game too....Once I had better bug also. I edited my game save from ME2 that Thane died in SM...but when I went to Huerta Hospital he was still there next to window. While Kirrahe died on Citadel saving Council I could very easy imagine that Thane is still alive and on his way to Kahje.
Anyway Im very curious why Mordin couldn't help Thane with Kepral Syndrome. Mordin was genious, he cured genocide and still wasn't able to find a way to stop/or slow down Kepral Syndrome?

That's actually not a bug   That's a product of not editing all the save variables.  You need to tick the box that says Thane is dead, and then edit the boolean values for it under "Raw" data, and to be doubly sure, you need to make sure both are correct in your ME3 saves.  

As for Mordin, I think he had bigger fish to fry.  Don't get me wrong, he's a good dude, but Mordin's also not much of a sentimentalist.  If Thane's condition didn't affect his performance on the SM, I don't think he'd consider it a priority, since everyone was expecting to die anyway.  And after that, the Reaper war kicks into high gear, the krogan females are abducted, and Mordin's busy trying to save an entire species.

bananflugan14 wrote...
But...but....Mordin [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie] But yeh that's kinda true...didn't really know what refererence I could otherwise take to make somewhat sense and I'm not used to these forums and actually engaging in them so I feel like an idiot when I write something. But I'll try to actually think before I say something next time. The fact that I'm incredibly shy just ads to the Idiot factor.

No, no, it's fine!  You're fine, don't worry so much. These things are very rarely a matter of fact; everyone's got opinions, and no one's opinion is more valid than anyone else's.  Sorry if I scared you or anything.  I promise I don't bite! 

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 25 janvier 2013 - 10:17 .

[Askeebe]

Hi again. Been gone a long time and had a lot to read to catch up. I don't have a lot of time to browse other threads, but I'll have to go look for that head canon thread.

BTW, I'm sure this is old news to everyone here, but I reloaded Skyrim off Steam and discovered the workshop. I'd heard a while ago you can mod in Thane to be a follower there, but I've never done modding. But the workshop does it all for me. I'm eagerly waiting to put the little one to bed so I can load up Skyrim and go look for my drell.

[disc0nnect7]

Hyrule_gal has said that most people would opt to keep Thane alive if they had the choice (and I have seen people say this on the forums) but if there were some dire or huge consequence comparable to keeping Mordin alive, maybe choosing Thane's life wouldn't be the obvious choice for some players.

I think most of us here agree we don't want the "magical cure", we don't expect Thane to live without some kind of consequences. The argument I could see people making is that Thane wouldn't want to sacrifice anyone for himself, if there were some greater good (like choosing to help the entire krogan race over just keeping Mordin alive) then keeping Thane alive probably wouldn't be the obvious choice. We're kind of at an impasse then, what if you choose to keep Thane alive, but it somehow has a negative impact on the game? Is it really worth it then? Would Thane even let Shepard do that? I imagine he'd find it selfish, but he is totally OOC in ME3 so who knows what he would "think". They made him resigned to die in a hospital, which only adds fuel to the fire of the notion that he should die.

Modifié par disc0nnect7, 26 janvier 2013 - 02:35 .

[Elana.S]

@Hyrule_Gal, that is an incredibly interesting observation. It's so amazing how after so many months, this game and its community reaction still has so much to teach us about psychology :happy: When player agency is this sacred, it's really true how sensitive people can become if an alternative is proposed that they didn't choose.

To anyone following my femShep/Thane romance fic "The Phenomenology of Shepard", I've posted chapter 5 today! It follows Grunt's loyalty mission, so it's a lot of watching Thane and engineer femShep in action against Tuchanka beasties.  Next week's instalment has the first sexy scene, so the time to catch up is now!! Ha ha ha.

This chapter is rated M for language.

For those just joining me, "The Phenomenology of Shepard" is a somewhat cerebral take on the themes of memory and death as they figure in to the femShep/Thane romance.

Links:
from the beginning: Archive of Our Own | Fanfiction.net
chapter 5: Archive of Our Own | Fanfiction.net

[coldwetn0se]

@Disconnect - I think for some this is true....consequences are needed/wanted, and then it begs the question as to whether or not Thane would want Shepard to act on such things. BUT (isn't there always a "but"? hehehe), I have never seen his situation, as something needing to be an either/or situation. Instead, it's about putting in the time and effort (which could inadvertently cause some sacrifice, but it isn't a necessary ingredient....so to speak).

Look at Miranda; she can die based on a few factors. 1) Her loyalty status 2) If she is romanced, does Shepard break up with her 3) Give her access to intel. 4) Warn her about Kai Lame.
Lots of hoops to jump through. Even Mordin can be viewed that way. Some hold to the belief (based on the Shepard they are role playing), that the Genophage "shouldn't" be cured. This is not a "wrong" thing, but a "role playing choice". For those that are RPing such a PC, then sabotaging the Genophage and keeping Mordin alive seems completely reasonable. To players like that, it isn't so much a "consequence" but merely a choice to follow what they believe is appropriate for their Shepard.

Personally, I always felt that they should have merely kept him alive throughout the game (I would have been more than happy to make up my own mind on what happens AFTER all is said and done). Or, given him some autonomy based on loyalty and/or romance, that he decides for himself to take the transplant during the interim between ME2 and me3.

Unfortunately, those never came to be. So instead, we examine the idea of some kind of life extention or cure. This is where the "many hoops to jump through" comes in. Is he loyal? Do you make contact with him? Do you keep him informed of intel you come upon (maybe accomplishing that silly fetch quest for the Salarian doctor in Huerta, or Kasumi's side quest)? Do you direct him in some manner through involvement/dialogue, that can then impact him (good example would be the VS while they are recovering at Huerta hospital....to help deflect the need to "potentially" shoot them during the coup)?

These are just a few ideas, but I think you get what I am driving at. I don't think it needs to be a
"Sophie's Choice" situation to have gravitas. Most things in the game (and life) don't come with a either/or, but instead, a chain of events, actions, and choices......steps, in other words. Doing "specific" ones, and having certain key elements align would make it dramatic enough to work.

Now, having said all that, it sure as shyte doesn't mean I think they will do this (obviously). But it could or could HAVE been done. The in-game lore supports a couple of possibilities to a life extention or cure, so had it actually been implemented, I believe it could have been done quite well and quite moving. It would have also required work on the players part.....good enough for some characters already, good enough for Thane.

Just my .02

[Sable Rhapsody]

coldwetn0se wrote...
These are just a few ideas, but I think you get what I am driving at. I don't think it needs to be a
"Sophie's Choice" situation to have gravitas. Most things in the game (and life) don't come with a either/or, but instead, a chain of events, actions, and choices......steps, in other words. Doing "specific" ones, and having certain key elements align would make it dramatic enough to work.

Agreed.  Keeping Mordin alive is IMO more of a sadistic choice because he's so tied up in the main plot of the genophage cure.  But Thane is not tied up in any of the main plot stuff--never was, even back in ME2.  The option to keep him alive should've been more like Miranda's: dependent on certain conditions, but not a "your love interest or this species" kind of thing.  If we're drawing the analogy with Miranda, maybe Thane's survival would require the player to 1) secure his loyalty 2) interact with him well in ME3 and 3) expend some resources (either money, short sidequest, or EMS) to improve his health.

As long as it wasn't dependent on romance status: the idea that you have to sleep with someone to help them is one of my biggest pet peeves in RPGs. 

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 26 janvier 2013 - 11:17 .

[Askeebe]

On the subject of choice and happiness, I read a study a few years back. Been a while, and not sure I can find it again. It was an experiment that asked people to rank five pieces of artwork from best to worst. Half the group was allowed to rerank. The first half, the control group, was very happy with their choice of ranking. But the experimental group that was allowed to rerank, was significantly less happy with their choice, even after reranking. It showed that the human brain will make you enjoy something more if you have no choice in it. But if you have a choice, you keep second guessing yourself.

[Hisilome]

Hello all, very happy to be back in here after a bit!

What's that I hear about a new DLC? Not another Omega, I hope!!:/

As for Thane...the more I think about it-and replaying ME2 still, lack of time has stalled me significantly-the more it makes less and less sense!!I'd be happy with a decent ending, even if it meant he still had to die, though we do get way too many hints that he might be able to survive in ME2,in his story and in the romance.

What we got was badly-written, badly executed, full of plot holes-and not the only thing in ME3 to suffer from that affliction, either- a story that did very little justice to both Thane and the players who chose to romance him!

I can live with a sad ending, if it could be well done; of course, a happy ending would be the best thing, of course, but still...anything would be better than what we got!!

[Vlk3]

@ Squeegee Thsi is hilarious but also sad. I can't decide what to feel about this picture.

I'm exploring dialogue options in ME2 and I realised, that non- romanced version of Thane sounds exactly like Thane in ME3. Now I know for sure, Hepler didn't check the romanced version before starting to write Thane . He might have realised later that Thane could be romanced and then he made slight changes. But it's not possible to write Thane in ME3 the way he was written, knowing how his romance looked like. People believing that he should die and his death was very good have a point- most of them didn't see what we saw and Thane was so ready to die, they don't even consider any other option. But I would argue here that Shepard in most cases would still try to help Thane and prevent his death somehow, convince him to take lung transplant or seek other treatment. Hell, the lack of cure for the whole race seems like a problem big enough to consider worth investigating more. Even if Thane was ready to die, it doesn't mean that he absolutely wouldn't want to seek other option if one was available.