16751 réponses à ce sujet

[Thrazesul]

No wonder people get so mad when a cure or something like that is mentioned. They don't know better, they haven't seen the other side of him. They just think of their own playthrough and how ridiculous our suggestions are cause we must seem like rambling fools, just wanting something that doesn't "exist."

Doesn't excuse anything though. But I KNOW I get defensive myself when people want to tamper with "my" playthrough, by changing things I find perfectly fine. Granted, I don't run around and curse and yell and call people stupid because of it. >.> It's the overreactions that are so extremly bad and childish, nothing forces them to have it happen in their own. It's about as ridiculus as people complaining that Anders was bi in DA2, because even if he wasn't in their playthrough, they KNOW he was in others and this was oh, so horrible, apparantly and somehow reduced the joy of their own playthrough.

Will still continue like I have before though. Trolls and unknowing people can be ignored, Bioware still needs to hear how wrong this is.

Modifié par Thrazesul, 27 janvier 2013 - 12:14 .

[Belisarius25]

A lot of people have favorite characters, so they don't really have any particular interest in developing the ones they either don't like or are indifferent to. It's not so much that they dislike Thane, in this case, as much as they only really care about characters X, Y and/or Z and treat any request to give Thane better content in ME3 as taking away resources that should be devoted to giving their characters more time.

To them, giving Thane a real storyline/dialogue in ME3 means that their favorite character(s) won't get the extra content they deserve. I've read posts by people who are upset that there wasn't special content for taking Liara to Thessia, for example - never mind that their argument was less about whether that content would add anything to the story and more about it being content they wanted for their own personal story. Giving Thane something more than a single conversation and (bad) cutscene) before dying, on the other hand, would actually strengthen the story and show some appreciation for the character.

Not to say I don't have that same viewpoint to an extent - my 'main' Shepard has some squadmates that are way more important to him than others (and, thus, more important to me) - but on the internet everything tends to be a little nastier and BSN is no different. Hell, since Ashley's my favorite LI for male Shepard I run into that nastiness more often than most!

[JECW]

Thrazesul wrote...

No wonder people get so mad when a cure or something like that is mentioned. They don't know better, they haven't seen the other side of him. They just think of their own playthrough and how ridiculous our suggestions are cause we must seem like rambling fools, just wanting something that doesn't "exist."

Doesn't excuse anything though. But I KNOW I get defensive myself when people want to tamper with "my" playthrough, by changing things I find perfectly fine. Granted, I don't run around and curse and yell and call people stupid because of it. >.> It's the overreactions that are so extremly bad and childish, nothing forces them to have it happen in their own. It's about as ridiculus as people complaining that Anders was bi in DA2, because even if he wasn't in their playthrough, they KNOW he was in others and this was oh, so horrible, apparantly and somehow reduced the joy of their own playthrough.

Will still continue like I have before though. Trolls and unknowing people can be ignored, Bioware still needs to hear how wrong this is.

I don't think I will ever get their way of thinking. I don't see how what one person wants would effect their playthrough. To me it's simple. If they don't want Thane to live then you don't have too. We are not asking or even making them keep him alive. I don't see how they could look at what Thane was given and think that was good writing. Even if Thane was just a friend I thought it was pretty bad.

What I noticed is most of them don't know anything about Thane or care to know. They didn't romance him and they probably barely talked to him. What some of them think is that if bioware were to give Thane this cure then somehow it would take something away from their LI.

[Seifer006]

[Moira-chan]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

disc0nnect7 wrote...

Ya know, I've never seen people campaign so hard for a non villainous characters' death. It's baffling. As much as they say Thane was "always meant to die" it'll never help me understand why they feel so strongly about it. It wouldn't affect their game at all if we at least had a CHOICE. Isn't that what Mass Effect used to stand for-player choice?

If I may *takes a puff from pipe* I have one theory.


I believe this has something to do with insecurity for LIKING that Thane died the way he did. Let me explain. Thane’s death (as it stands) is a no choice situation and therefore has become canon to the eyes of many So people learnt to wax poetic about it despite the obvious inconsistencies and mistakes. It happens no matter what so might as well just accept it and love it right? “It’s amazing! It’s emotional! Blah blah blah”.

So when a poster comes along and says “That’s great and all guys but can we also have a choice to keep him alive?” Suddenly there is a realization that if they HAD the choice in the beginning they probably wouldn’t have such a hard on for that death after all.

The general rule is that most people will try to save as many people as they can in the mass effect games and if Thane was given a choice from the get go MOST would have saved him and it would have been a non issue. Isn’t it interesting that people have actually said that a choice to keep him alive would invalidate their choice? That’s odd considering how some have kept Mordin alive in their playthroughs but no one screams about how those people invalidate them . Something else is going on here.

With Mordin his optional death was different. You loved the guy but most would rather save the entire krogan race, than keep him alive. Again, creating the most amount of happiness out of a bad situation. So liking that Mordin died for the whole krogan race is different to just liking the death Thane got. Mordin’s could be prevented for one, it was built up well and like I said before his death resulted in a big pay off.

What was the payoff to Thane’s death? By comparison it seems very worthless and pointless. So the IDEA of a choice being added makes some shift uncomfortably because they don’t want the choice to exist full stop. Such a hypothetical choice would put a big ol spotlight on the “perfect death” they love so much . They would feel  even more insecure about it when people start to choose his survival rather than watch him die pointlessly every single playthrough.

One of the complaints I’ve seen regarding the players who want a better ending is that such a choice existing would mean “EVERYONE would pick that!”. So hold on. So you don’t want them to get the ending they want because...you don’t want other players to prefer it? Making your choice less popular? I think this can be compared to Thane’s situation. Some like the crap they were spoon-fed and resent anyone who doesn’t like or accept what they were given. Most of all they don’t want it to be obvious that what they were given was indeed crap after all and worse...THAT THEY LIKED IT.

Of course I could be wrong and this pipe just makes bubbles so

i think that you're right  i thought about it many times and came to the same conclusion. even one of the trollers in a thane thread said, that he does not want an option, because if there had been one, he would have save thane and that would unreveal all that Thane meant to be. To show, that nothing is pink in this world, that the universe of Mass effect is dramatical. 
First i was just saying: wtf o.O this argument doesn't make sense. and it is like that (especially for us) but for him it makes sense. So there must had been something behind this argumentation and i started to think about it. It took quite a time until i realized exaxtly the same as you did, hyrule. i came to the same conclusion.
most of gamers would have save thane if it had been possible and with our protest they realiszed that maybe her preformed opinion wasn't the right one and so they started to fight against it, because somehow they noticed that they acted against her normal gameplay way, against how their shepard would act.

[Stilographium]

Vlk3 wrote...
I'm exploring dialogue options in ME2 and I realised, that non- romanced version of Thane sounds exactly like Thane in ME3. Now I know for sure, Hepler didn't check the romanced version before starting to write Thane . He might have realised later that Thane could be romanced and then he made slight changes. But it's not possible to write Thane in ME3 the way he was written, knowing how his romance looked like. People believing that he should die and his death was very good have a point- most of them didn't see what we saw and Thane was so ready to die, they don't even consider any other option. But I would argue here that Shepard in most cases would still try to help Thane and prevent his death somehow, convince him to take lung transplant or seek other treatment. Hell, the lack of cure for the whole race seems like a problem big enough to consider worth investigating more. Even if Thane was ready to die, it doesn't mean that he absolutely wouldn't want to seek other option if one was available.

Yeah, I had almost forgotten what Thane's friend path was like until I saw my brother playing it the other day. It was horrible to watch how Thane was totally ready to die even when he had just reunited with his son. I still find it hard to believe that, even if Thane didn't want to live for Shepard, he wouldn't try to extend his life to live for Kolyat. It just seems so unfair that Kolyat has to live 10 years without his father, then he suddenly shows up and says: "hi son, just wanted to make things up with you before I die and you'll be all alone again, trololol." Would Kolyat be alright with that? Wouldn't Thane want more time to make up for his mistakes?
On the other hand, I guess Thane would seem out of character to non-romancers if he suddenly wanted to live in ME3. Still, I think every Shepard should have an option to persuade Thane to take lung transplant or at least help him in the fight with KL. There are non-romancers who wanted to save Thane as well, so I think it would be unfair to make the option dependent on romance status.

[Roxy]

Stilographium wrote...

Vlk3 wrote...
I'm exploring dialogue options in ME2 and I realised, that non- romanced version of Thane sounds exactly like Thane in ME3. Now I know for sure, Hepler didn't check the romanced version before starting to write Thane . He might have realised later that Thane could be romanced and then he made slight changes. But it's not possible to write Thane in ME3 the way he was written, knowing how his romance looked like. People believing that he should die and his death was very good have a point- most of them didn't see what we saw and Thane was so ready to die, they don't even consider any other option. But I would argue here that Shepard in most cases would still try to help Thane and prevent his death somehow, convince him to take lung transplant or seek other treatment. Hell, the lack of cure for the whole race seems like a problem big enough to consider worth investigating more. Even if Thane was ready to die, it doesn't mean that he absolutely wouldn't want to seek other option if one was available.

Yeah, I had almost forgotten what Thane's friend path was like until I saw my brother playing it the other day. It was horrible to watch how Thane was totally ready to die even when he had just reunited with his son. I still find it hard to believe that, even if Thane didn't want to live for Shepard, he wouldn't try to extend his life to live for Kolyat. It just seems so unfair that Kolyat has to live 10 years without his father, then he suddenly shows up and says: "hi son, just wanted to make things up with you before I die and you'll be all alone again, trololol." Would Kolyat be alright with that? Wouldn't Thane want more time to make up for his mistakes?
On the other hand, I guess Thane would seem out of character to non-romancers if he suddenly wanted to live in ME3. Still, I think every Shepard should have an option to persuade Thane to take lung transplant or at least help him in the fight with KL. There are non-romancers who wanted to save Thane as well, so I think it would be unfair to make the option dependent on romance status.

I 100% agree on that!


I don't get people who want to throw a fit just because we want to have an option...an option to save Thane,cause if this happened to their LI they would be screaming bloody murder and threaten to sue Buttware!!!

Need ...some.. happy Thane!



 Wish it would have happened like that but if we get just an option to save Thane in the next DLC I will be happy...if not then Buttware will stand at the top of my poop list forever.

Modifié par Roxy, 28 janvier 2013 - 01:06 .

[JECW]

I'm don't have any hope for the next dlc. I would love to be wrong, but I doubt it.
I think Bioware would just like to forget ME2 happened, and they are just waiting for us to go away.

I don't know why Bioware chose to listen to a small minority of people who don't want to save Thane. Those people are not trying to understand our point and they don't want to. They would definitely be upset if it was happening to their LI, but since it's only happening to ours they are fine with it.

[RGC_Ines]

Thrazesul wrote...

Also, I need to know. Does Kaidan still give that look of longing to Shepard and other way around even if you DIDN'T romance him in ME1, on Mars? Cause they exhanged looks at Liara's question and I did romance Kaidan in ME1, and then swapped to Garrus, on purpose. But the scene remains the same even if he's not romanced since ME1?

I had Kaidan as an LI in ME1 and Thane in ME2 and still on the Mars I got " THAT LOOK" from Kaidan...so now I just choose lower dialog option with Liara ( Renegade). Honestly I was very dissapointment when I played ME3 first time and instead of some hints about Thane ( at last after LotSB Liara knew that Im with Thane) I get this scene with Kaidan...Don't know about Garrus ( never romanced with him) but If Thane is an ME2 LI I have feelings like Devs are forcing me to care too much about Kaidan in ME3

JECW wrote...

I'm don't have any hope for the next dlc. I would love to be wrong, but I doubt it.
I think Bioware would just like to forget ME2 happened, and they are just waiting for us to go away.

I don't know why Bioware chose to listen to a small minority of people who don't want to save Thane. Those people are not trying to understand our point and they don't want to. They would definitely be upset if it was happening to their LI, but since it's only happening to ours they are fine with it.

Well I havn't any faith in BioWare about Thane, but Im almost sure that VS fans will get something even it will be as stupid as Normandy evac scene right before Harbringer eyes in EC...

Modifié par RGC_Ines, 27 janvier 2013 - 06:49 .

[Belisarius25]

RGC_Ines wrote...

I had Kaidan as an LI in ME1 and Thane in ME2 and still on the Mars I got " THAT LOOK" from Kaidan...so now I just choose lower dialog option with Liara ( Renegade). Honestly I was very dissapointment when I played ME3 first time and instead of some hints about Thane ( at last after LotSB Liara knew that Im with Thane) I get this scene with Kaidan...Don't know about Garrus ( never romanced with him) but If Thane is an ME2 LI I have feelings like Devs are forcing me to care too much about Kaidan in ME3

I think that scene is the case regardless of who you romance in ME2, and is meant to show your Shepard *cares* about Kaidan. I'm not really sure why they kept that in, unless the intent was to imply that - regardless of what the player wants - Shep/Kaidan are still close. I definitely found it weird too - it's a nice small thing when the VS is still your LI, not so much when they're not. I'm pretty sure you get a Liara-romancesque response if you were with Liara in ME1 and someone else in ME2 as well, I'll have to check though.

Well I havn't any faith in BioWare about Thane, but Im almost sure that VS fans will get something even it will be as stupid as Normandy evac scene right before Harbringer eyes in EC...

The last time they promised VS fans something, it was that there were "big plans" for them after people got upset about their scene/possible email in ME2....and that turned out to be derailing them further in ME3 until you get past the coup and then limiting their dialogue afterwards unless romanced. Count me as a VS fan who is always nervous about what Bioware might or might not do to them!

Modifié par Belisarius25, 27 janvier 2013 - 07:06 .

[RGC_Ines]

Belisarius25 wrote...

The last time they promised VS fans something, it was that there were "big plans" for them after people got upset about their scene/possible email in ME2....and that turned out to be derailing them further in ME3 until you get past the coup and then limiting their dialogue afterwards unless romanced. Count me as a VS fan who is always nervous about what Bioware might or might not do to them!

Sorry I didn't want to hurt anyone, or start any characters war, maybe Im just a little bitter about all this situation with ME2 LIs in ME3..I remember BioWare promises about VS, especially that before ME2 Kaidan was permanent LI for my all Shepards and I wanted to continue theirs relationship in ME2 ( I failed but well...). Also I remember that they promised " big deal" for VS in ME3 and we all know how it is in game...But hope You will understand my opinion that evac scene in ME3 EC is really silly, and it's pure certain LIs fan service...To be honest I still like Kaidan as character. Unfortunetly ( once again in my opinion) Kaidan is a little forced on PC in ME3, and it's sad, especially if I romanced with Thane and wanted some good story. Instead I got " crazy about Kaidan" Shepard ( at the end of Mars mission, even after I chose renegade dialog options and said that everything between them is over), who never told Thane that she loved him, talks about Kaidan by almost all her only dialog with Thane, and even don't care when Thane is badly wounded by Kai Leng

[Belisarius25]

Oh, no worries. I totally agree that with you.

The scene after the coup where nobody says a damn thing about Thane but Garrus is upset about almost shooting Kaidan (or actually killing him I guess) was really really obnoxious for my female Shepard.

I think part of the problem might be that Bioware might have been too concerned with setting up the Kaidan romance for new players/non-imports (where he's your only male/non-Liara option) and didn't change enough for people who were importing. There's other stuff that feels that way too (the whole Cerberus conversations on Mars feel like they belong in ME2 and that Shepard/the VS would have gotten over it already, but since Bioware thought the Cerberus coup was a great idea...)

Bioware did a pretty bad job of managing a lot of the relationships in ME3 though. If you have a continuous relationship with one character for your Shepard it's generally okay. If you picked a ME2 character (other than Tali/Garrus of course)...not so much.

Modifié par Belisarius25, 27 janvier 2013 - 08:29 .

[mnomaha]

Seifer006 wrote...

Okay, I'll bite...is this where you got your screen name? Love this game. If it weren't packed, I would go play it.

Modifié par mnomaha, 28 janvier 2013 - 06:01 .

[JECW]

RGC_Ines wrote...

JECW wrote...

I'm don't have any hope for the next dlc. I would love to be wrong, but I doubt it.
I think Bioware would just like to forget ME2 happened, and they are just waiting for us to go away.

I don't know why Bioware chose to listen to a small minority of people who don't want to save Thane. Those people are not trying to understand our point and they don't want to. They would definitely be upset if it was happening to their LI, but since it's only happening to ours they are fine with it.

Well I havn't any faith in BioWare about Thane, but Im almost sure that VS fans will get something even it will be as stupid as Normandy evac scene right before Harbringer eyes in EC...

I pretty sure the VS will get something too. The only LI's that wont get anything are the ones from ME2 except for Tali and Garrus.

Modifié par JECW, 27 janvier 2013 - 09:57 .

[JECW]

RGC_Ines wrote...

Belisarius25 wrote...

The last time they promised VS fans something, it was that there were "big plans" for them after people got upset about their scene/possible email in ME2....and that turned out to be derailing them further in ME3 until you get past the coup and then limiting their dialogue afterwards unless romanced. Count me as a VS fan who is always nervous about what Bioware might or might not do to them!

Sorry I didn't want to hurt anyone, or start any characters war, maybe Im just a little bitter about all this situation with ME2 LIs in ME3..I remember BioWare promises about VS, especially that before ME2 Kaidan was permanent LI for my all Shepards and I wanted to continue theirs relationship in ME2 ( I failed but well...). Also I remember that they promised " big deal" for VS in ME3 and we all know how it is in game...But hope You will understand my opinion that evac scene in ME3 EC is really silly, and it's pure certain LIs fan service...To be honest I still like Kaidan as character. Unfortunetly ( once again in my opinion) Kaidan is a little forced on PC in ME3, and it's sad, especially if I romanced with Thane and wanted some good story. Instead I got " crazy about Kaidan" Shepard ( at the end of Mars mission, even after I chose renegade dialog options and said that everything between them is over), who never told Thane that she loved him, talks about Kaidan by almost all her only dialog with Thane, and even don't care when Thane is badly wounded by Kai Leng

It seems as if Bioware thought everyone would go back to Kaidan if they romanced him in ME1. It's not just that scene on Mars. It's Shepards reaction to him being hurt on Mars. I thought that reaction was way overboard if you didn't roamance him. It's the fact that Shepard seems to go out of her way to apologize for choosing Thane, Jacob or Garrus over Kaidan. I'm still a little upset that MShep doesn't have to apologize to Ashley.

[Vlk3]

That's why after seeing what happened in ME3 I changed some parts of my canon Shep's story. I started the game once again and left Kaidan on Virmire. Problem solved. At least partially. It really doesn't change much since I never made it out of Palaven with that Shep. But still..if I ever decide to continue her story in ME3, at least she won't tell Thane that she's in hospital only to see some other man.

Roxy wrote...

One of the cutest pics on the internet

[coldwetn0se]

I like Kaidan as a character, but I never saw him as a LI for any of my f!Sheps. I had one Shepard choose him (out of 5...nearing 6 f!Sheps), to try it out, but he just wasn't LI material for most of my Sheps (or me, for that matter). I DID however, see a m!Shep (before me3 even came out) that was perfect for him. As For Ashley, some around here know I love this lady. My favorite M!Shep is with her, though they will never see the light of day in me3. So I wish nothing for the best for VS lovers.

Course, this also illustrates just how much Thane became my "one true LI" in this series. I still choose Thane everytime, when it comes to f!Shep. And since I admittedly do connect a bit more to my female Shepard play throughs (being female might be the reason...), Thane is my true LI.

Here is hoping for the best; expecting.....absolutely nothing! Chin-Chin!!

[giftfish]

Vlk3 wrote...
I'm exploring dialogue options in ME2 and I realised, that non- romanced version of Thane sounds exactly like Thane in ME3.

Yep, been saying this for over 6 months now.

This is the problem.  According to our survey 28% of the player population has romanced Thane -- 48% of female players, but only 11% of male players.

According to further analysis, the vast majority of players who do not support a cure/live option are those who are either male, or did not romance Thane. 

To these players their direct interaction with Thane in game was different from ours, and his death is cannon.  For them, we are a bunch of whiny girls who are "butt-hurt" that BW killed our "boyfried" -- so much so that we want BW to alter cannon just for us  This is what makes sense from their perspective, which is why no matter how much you argue, you won't convince them that your perspective is "right". Perspective is just that -- opinion and world-view based upon your personal experience, and as we know, personal experiences can be drastically different.

Mind you, not every player who did not romance Thane (or is male) shares this perspective, but, it is why it's so common.

Hence the picture I made for the blog....

Modifié par giftfish, 28 janvier 2013 - 02:07 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

JECW wrote...
It seems as if Bioware thought everyone would go back to Kaidan if they romanced him in ME1. It's not just that scene on Mars. It's Shepards reaction to him being hurt on Mars. I thought that reaction was way overboard if you didn't roamance him. It's the fact that Shepard seems to go out of her way to apologize for choosing Thane, Jacob or Garrus over Kaidan. I'm still a little upset that MShep doesn't have to apologize to Ashley.

For the record, I don't remember getting any of this with Kaidan, or at least not the long stare on Mars or the ninjamance in his Citadel conversation.  But I did not so much as flirt with Kaidan in ME1, and locked in Garrus very early in ME3.  He seemed pretty thoroughly friendzoned in my game.

[mnomaha]

If you are with Garrus, it is heaps easier to get Kaidan to leave you alone. Well, after the long stare on Mars. I think I know what you're talking about here. I had less problems with Liara and Kaidan with my non import. I know I was all kinds of pissed off when I played my FemShep. I couldn't have beat those two away with a thresher maw.

So, really, I liked them with a new game. Imports suck. Just another reminder that this game was not made with an existing fanbase in mind.

[Vlk3]

Did you see a screenshot from a new DLC? https://twitter.com/...2942336/photo/1

I'm not sure what it is... looks like Illium a bit, but it could be Citadel as well.

Modifié par Vlk3, 28 janvier 2013 - 06:16 .

[JECW]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

JECW wrote...
It seems as if Bioware thought everyone would go back to Kaidan if they romanced him in ME1. It's not just that scene on Mars. It's Shepards reaction to him being hurt on Mars. I thought that reaction was way overboard if you didn't roamance him. It's the fact that Shepard seems to go out of her way to apologize for choosing Thane, Jacob or Garrus over Kaidan. I'm still a little upset that MShep doesn't have to apologize to Ashley.

For the record, I don't remember getting any of this with Kaidan, or at least not the long stare on Mars or the ninjamance in his Citadel conversation.  But I did not so much as flirt with Kaidan in ME1, and locked in Garrus very early in ME3.  He seemed pretty thoroughly friendzoned in my game.

If you didn't romance him in ME1 you don't get those things. I still think bioware went overboard with Shepard reaction to Kaidan getting hurt on Mars. This is a man she hadn't seen in two years and the last time she saw him he called her a traitor and walked away. By her reaction you would think she had feelings for him even if your shepard didn't romance him and that bothered me. If he was your LI then her reaction is understandable.

On my first playthrough with my shepard that romanced Garrus I was surprised by her reation. Also I didn't lock into my relationship with Garrus yet in ME3 and when I went to lunch with Kaidan he started talking about us. I was again surprised that he was hitting on my shepard when I never even spoke to him in ME1 and was with Garrus. I don't think you should have had to lock into the relationship all over again. Especially since I already did it in ME2.

[Roxy]

@Vlk I agree that pic of Thane and Shep with a drell baby is adorable! ^^
Also that pic on twitter does look like the Citadel.


See that's one of the reasons why I kept Ashley alive,I didn't want Kaiden panting and following my femshep like she was a dog in heat lol.

Modifié par Roxy, 28 janvier 2013 - 07:22 .

[Thrazesul]

1. That Many faces of Thane picture> absolute win. If people can't understand text, maybe they can understand pictures better.

2. Good to know that the Kaidan stares might be a bit less if he's not at all romanced/flirted with. Just started a new ME1 playthrough and I got no intention of even hinting on that with him. As... easy as that is in ME1... not.

3. Those new pictures of the DLC are as vague as I don't know what. Citadel or Illium, difficult to tell. Before ending or after Ending DLC, hard to tell. People wouldn't be that relaxed and hardly much R&R with the reaper war going on, you'd think... but maybe I'm wrong. While I'll appreciate a friend/LI/reunion DLC on my Garrus Shep... it's going to hurt so much more on my Thane side. Ya know, since he's dead.