16751 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

kaimanaMM wrote...
My rage will be beyond epic if choices and consequences are taken away from me (i.e. Thane dying between ME2 and ME3) and I would not spend one red cent on ME3.

I agree in principle that if ME1 and ME2 characters don't return, I have little reason to play ME3 let alone purchase it.

I've said it in other places, possibly even in this thread, but what does his death give to those of us who romanced him?

Exactly! It does nothing. They say it adds to the drama, but I'd say that even more drama can be gained with Thane alive. Not to mention that Shepard so far has not really been able to express grief over people dying. You get "sad music" and that's about it.

Should a choice arise where Shepard has to choose between Thane and X, involving a cure or possibly proloning his life without suffering then that has the potential to be a very memorable and poignant moment - but not at the cost of the relationship between him and Shepard.

I agree. Let's not have choices where Shepard has to be a being a selfish jerk in order to keep the love interest alive. 

There are many ways to keep Thane alive and still retain the feeling of drama and attachment to the character.

Yep. The very fact that was drama within Thane's character and romance to begin with proves as much.

[SleepyBird]

laradenton wrote...

Collider wrote...

Arahlene wrote...

I don't mind having some type of twist to curing him. The one to keep Alistair (or yourself) in DA is brilliant for example (and it was very entertaining to persuade him),

It's kind of sad how the Alistair romance was handled especially since Alistair staying with you apparently hinges a lot on whether you said something in one easily missable conversation that didn't appear to be that significant...

That was a... cheap trick. Too many events depended on a damned crappy line. Let's not get into that. I'll get dizzy.

Ooo, that "choice" and it's consequences annoy the crap out of me.  classic example of bad game design.  There is no way anyone who cares enough about Allistair to be doing the side quest would choose that particular line of dialog.  I have never heard from anyone online or in RL anywhere who made that dialog choice without having read about it in advance.  Requiring a player to have read a cheat sheet to make a major impact on a character like that is just plain bad writing and storytelling.

That said - Mass Effect may be from the same company as DragonAge, but it's an entirely different creative team.  One that has never yet placed my Shepard in any situation that felt like a cheap trick.

Arahlene wrote...

My initial assumption was definitely that his illness just wouldn't matter that much in terms of the games, just like you mention. To be honest, I will be content with just not having to watch him die in the game. However, I would prefer a little more ambiguous ending where his life is either prolonged or his illness is cured.

Summary of my opinions:
Happy: Thane is cured or his life is prolonged
Content: Thane does not die in the game
Unhappy: Thane dies during the course of ME3
Nerd Rage: Thane dies in between ME2 and ME3

I don't think there's much chance of you having to go into nerd rage over this.  (I say "you" when I mean all of us - I think there would be nerd rage everywhere if no closure is given to Thane at all)  There's too much good dramatic storytelling still left to be told.  Why would they put so much time and effort into creating a great character only to have him disappear without any wrap-up to his story?  I simply don't think it'll happen.

(I still think there's a very good chance his story will end tragically, but that's a whole other argument.  I'm just saying we WILL get something emotionally satisfying, even if it's sad.)

[Collider]

SleepyBird wrote...
Ooo, that "choice" and it's consequences annoy the crap out of me.  classic example of bad game design.  There is no way anyone who cares enough about Allistair to be doing the side quest would choose that particular line of dialog.  I have never heard from anyone online or in RL anywhere who made that dialog choice without having read about it in advance.  Requiring a player to have read a cheat sheet to make a major impact on a character like that is just plain bad writing and storytelling.

I think it would have been much better if there was a [Persuade] tag next to the choice. Something like this where the player would more likely know what they say makes an impact:

1. [Persuade] We're your friends Alistair and we support you.
2. Let's get going.
3. [Persuade] You need to learn that everyone is out for themselves.

So basically the player would either decide to take a stance or just say to Alistair that it's time to go. The persuade options would succeed no matter how low your persuasion is.

Modifié par Collider, 22 mars 2010 - 03:19 .

[Baris]

Sialater wrote...

The problem with Thane's illness is that it may not have been intended to define his character, but it does. He's The Tragically Dying Romantic Interest. It's lame in normal fiction, doubly lame in Sci-fi.

Cure him, so we can forget the illness ever existed and he can just be an awesome assassin.

Exactly. Well, aside from "cure him and let's move on" part maybe - although I would have totally agreed with that too a couple weeks ago but since I came to these boards, this issue is so focused on by people, it even managed to effect me - as someone who was annoyed by it and ready to forget all about it (I even voted "Curing Thane should be irregardless of my actions - just get on with it already" on Collider's poll) eventually didn't care much about it. As I said earlier, "what could have been"s give me a headache.

Shavon, nice pics. I took a look at the old forums a little and it seems you guys had quite some fun before the game release. I didn't see one ad/picture/trailer before I got my hands on my game and the first time I saw the trailer was when I forgot to "press any key" then it started. My reaction to Thane was "homg who is this bamf!"

[kaimanaMM]

I've missed you Thane.



Stripes.  Want to see more stripes.



Thane logic > TIM logic.

[Arahlene]

Shavon wrote...

Do you know, BW did excellent with THane. I'm buying the PC version, eventually just so I can recruit him first! Sad, I know, but that's how much I love one of the best written characters in all of BW games (probably should play NWN and BG2 before actually saying that, but still . . . )

Well, I don't think the characters from either one of those games made much of an impact (not on me anyways  and not in that way). However, one romance I actually liked very much is from one of the expansions to NWN (Hordes of the Underdark). A half-devil/tiefling with red hair that is fighing the "taint", i.e. his blood tells him to kill demons, I thinks there's some power struggle in the planes between devils and demons, but it was a while since I played so I don't quite remember. He was one of those strong silent types (not in a Sten-way fortunately), really nicely designed character, especially considering it was only an expansion.

Other than that, not much missed in that area. But I would still strongly encourage you to play BG2 because it is a classic.

And yes, BW did a good job with Thane, they managed to get both appearance and personality to feel more unique (perhaps the dead wife thing wasn't but you can't get everything). But I'm curious, you actually liked him from the moment you saw him? My first impression was not all that good, and when I heard he had been designed for the ladies I was like "What? Guess I'm not a lady then..." but he grew on me.

[RShara]

laradenton wrote...

RShara: I don't have the heart to read it.

Baris: I'm fine with a cure between the games. There's nothing wrong with that.

Collider: because ME2 was named the dark chapter, I am expecting some happy endings.
The poll pretty much shows that more people care about him being cured, one way or another, than him being dead.

51ha: I dont call him emo, but I've seen it before and there's a post a page back that uses the word and I was referring to that one.

It has a good/dark ending.  Please read 

[Arahlene]

kaimanaMM wrote...

Thane logic > TIM logic.

Heh, I don't know if I was too excited to properly listen to Thane in this scene, but I was convinced he tried to tell me I shouldn't blow up the base. Then afterwards he wasn't so happy about it so I figured I had misunderstood. I would have given the base to TIM anyways, but still funny how you hear what you want to hear.

[ebidebby]

I don't think there's no point to Thane being sick. Maybe if he's not your LI or if you are a male Shep, there is less of a point, but his story arc revolves around a person being resigned to death and then suddenly having reason to want to live again (and an even stronger reason if he is your LI).

[RShara]

Yes, his newfound desire to live is a very important point that many overlook. It's silly to say either that he is defined by his illness, or that it doesn't matter to him or the story. Yes, his illness has affected him, and changed his outlook on the life he has left.



However, he is obviously more then just a silly disease. With or without it, he has an interesting past, issues to resolve with his son, awesome skills, and a desire to improve the universe that he lives in, for however long that is.



I think my Shep will go kamikaze if her Thane dies before her!

[Arahlene]

RShara wrote...

Yes, his newfound desire to live is a very important point that many overlook. It's silly to say either that he is defined by his illness, or that it doesn't matter to him or the story. Yes, his illness has affected him, and changed his outlook on the life he has left.

However, he is obviously more then just a silly disease. With or without it, he has an interesting past, issues to resolve with his son, awesome skills, and a desire to improve the universe that he lives in, for however long that is.

I think my Shep will go kamikaze if her Thane dies before her!

Very well put. I agree 100%.

[ebidebby]

RShara wrote...

Yes, his newfound desire to live is a very important point that many overlook. It's silly to say either that he is defined by his illness, or that it doesn't matter to him or the story. Yes, his illness has affected him, and changed his outlook on the life he has left.

However, he is obviously more then just a silly disease. With or without it, he has an interesting past, issues to resolve with his son, awesome skills, and a desire to improve the universe that he lives in, for however long that is.

I think my Shep will go kamikaze if her Thane dies before her!

Well put! Thane is an interesting character and love interest, and I hope there's more in store for him in ME3. In the meantime, I'm so thankful for this forum! It's my only outlet for Thane love.

[RShara]

I actually wrote out the kamikaze...

*shameless advertising*



Finality



I cried.

[IccaRa]

Arahlene wrote...

Heh, I don't know if I was too excited to properly listen to Thane in this scene, but I was convinced he tried to tell me I shouldn't blow up the base. Then afterwards he wasn't so happy about it so I figured I had misunderstood. I would have given the base to TIM anyways, but still funny how you hear what you want to hear.

Huhwha? Haha, yeah, he's definitely for blowing it up.

Thane has no trust for TIM. I know he mentions TIM as becoming a giant, a man who works for his own greed and power.

Definitely not a TIM fan.

[RShara]

IccaRa wrote...

Arahlene wrote...

Heh, I don't know if I was too excited to properly listen to Thane in this scene, but I was convinced he tried to tell me I shouldn't blow up the base. Then afterwards he wasn't so happy about it so I figured I had misunderstood. I would have given the base to TIM anyways, but still funny how you hear what you want to hear.

Huhwha? Haha, yeah, he's definitely for blowing it up.

Thane has no trust for TIM. I know he mentions TIM as becoming a giant, a man who works for his own greed and power.

Definitely not a TIM fan.

To paraphrase, "The danger of fighting the beast is becoming it."  That's what he seemed to be warning of, that TIM in his zeal to "protect humanity" will send everyone down a dark road.

[IccaRa]

ebidebby wrote...

I don't think there's no point to Thane being sick. Maybe if he's not your LI or if you are a male Shep, there is less of a point, but his story arc revolves around a person being resigned to death and then suddenly having reason to want to live again (and an even stronger reason if he is your LI).

Aye, his sickness helped give him perspective. That was the most important thing it did.

Thankfully perspective isn't something you magically lose, so "curing" him -- or prolonging his life a bit further -- wouldn't backtrack that in the least.

To be honest, after Lazarus, and in light of the convenient genius of Mordin... eh, maybe it's just me, but when you toss that on the power fantasy that is Shepard, Thane's Kepral's being magically untouchable would reek of narrative lame. Shepard's freeze-dried crisp nub of a heart and lungs can be rejuvenated, but years of Illuminated Primacy research has done nothing for a bacterial infection? Just what is Mordin goofin' around doing anyway?

I'd be fairly happy with an ambiguous ending myself.

[IccaRa]

RShara wrote...

To paraphrase, "The danger of fighting the beast is becoming it."  That's what he seemed to be warning of, that TIM in his zeal to "protect humanity" will send everyone down a dark road.

Aye. And continuing to develop along the Reapers predestined paths.

It is rather amusing to see TIM snap back at him only to have Thane glower at his hologram. What, you don't like my Shepard's boo, TIM? So sad. ;D

[Arahlene]

RShara wrote...

To paraphrase, "The danger of fighting the beast is becoming it."  That's what he seemed to be warning of, that TIM in his zeal to "protect humanity" will send everyone down a dark road.

I don't exactly remeber what I made of it (and I don't play with subtitles, don't ask why) and I can't recontruct the thought now that I realise what he's really trying to say. And when you put it like that it becomes even more obvious. Sigh. <_<

IccaRa wrote...
Aye. And continuing to develop along the Reapers predestined paths.

It is rather amusing to see TIM snap back at him only to have Thane glower at his hologram. What, you don't like my Shepard's boo, TIM? So sad. ;D

Nobody likes TIM (he really does have way too much power with that base) , but I figure my
Shepard needed to stay on his good side since I played renegade all the way through both games. Nope, sorry Thane, she won't change even for you. I'm pretty sure being schizo about the big decisions would come back and slap you in the face somewhere along the line.

Modifié par Arahlene, 22 mars 2010 - 11:13 .

[RShara]

You'll have a choice of becoming a human Reaper and smiting the unholy, then ruling as the evil overlord

Or

You'll kill all the Reapers and everything will be rainbows and puppies.

[Shadow_Puppet]

RShara wrote...

 everything will be rainbows and puppies.

Only if we get to cure Thane, or atleast prolong his life long enough for a happy ending!

I just don't do sad endings!

Don't make me start BioWare!

Modifié par Shadow_Puppet, 22 mars 2010 - 11:21 .

[IccaRa]

How would y'all's Shepards get along with Kolyat, you think?

[ebidebby]

IccaRa wrote...

ebidebby wrote...

I don't think there's no point to Thane being sick. Maybe if he's not your LI or if you are a male Shep, there is less of a point, but his story arc revolves around a person being resigned to death and then suddenly having reason to want to live again (and an even stronger reason if he is your LI).

Aye, his sickness helped give him perspective. That was the most important thing it did.

Thankfully perspective isn't something you magically lose, so "curing" him -- or prolonging his life a bit further -- wouldn't backtrack that in the least.

To be honest, after Lazarus, and in light of the convenient genius of Mordin... eh, maybe it's just me, but when you toss that on the power fantasy that is Shepard, Thane's Kepral's being magically untouchable would reek of narrative lame. Shepard's freeze-dried crisp nub of a heart and lungs can be rejuvenated, but years of Illuminated Primacy research has done nothing for a bacterial infection? Just what is Mordin goofin' around doing anyway?

I'd be fairly happy with an ambiguous ending myself.

I suppose you're right, but that's a slippery slope of bad writing and easy answers for Bioware. The Lazurus project is a bit of a bad plot device (though it was fun to play), but it took an incredible amount of funds. I doubt Cerberus will still put up funding in ME3...
But now I'm just being devil's advocate. I agree with you that a cure wouldn't remove Thane's perspective, just that his sickness makes him appreciate the time he has left more. And he would still cherish his time if he was cured, no question.

[Shadow_Puppet]

IccaRa wrote...

How would y'all's Shepards get along with Kolyat, you think?

Awkwardly.....very awkwardly, specially after punching him one in the face an' all...eek

Modifié par Shadow_Puppet, 22 mars 2010 - 11:26 .