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Thane Fanclub. Keep Thane Alive and in ME3!!!


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#1651
Sialater

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dunefarble wrote...

RShara wrote...

Please post it. Anything to encourage a cure!


As requested.
WARNING - is loooooooong-


Okay, here’s my take on Kepral’s. May be adjusted as I’m corrected by people smarted than me/get missed info pointed out to me. (Any microbiology majors out there, feel free to help me out, my degree is in business)
As of ME2, as far as we know Kepral’s is a bacterial infection that cause’s the tissue of Drell lungs to lose the ability to function in high humidity environments (they can no longer absorb oxygen).
When the effects were first realized antibiotic treatments were used to combat the effect, but quickly loosed effectiveness and other treatments such as lung transplants have so far been unsuccessful and the disease eventually spreads to other organs. 

So why have efforts been so unsuccessful? Because it’s the symptom that’s been treated, not the origin. 
Starting at the beginning – The Drell are busily Industrial Revolutionizing the **** out of their planet, so in swoops the Hanar to rescue them. But they don’t just rescue the Drell, they also rescue Cannotus Thinkus Ofnameus, the tiny bacteria that had evolved symbiotically in the lungs of the Drell, aiding in the regulation of blood oxygenation. See where I’m going with this yet?

So the Hanar, rather than say, “Here’s a few bucks for a hotel,” are their typical nice selves and say, “Come stay at my place!” So the Drell go  from their nice, arid planet, and are introduced for the first time to a predominantly marine ecosystem. Only, whoops, looks like a huge aspect of marine ecology is the presence of bacteriophages.   Bacteriophages are viruses that infect bacteria, eventually causing the infected bacteria to burst and release compounds that stimulate the growth of more bacteria for the virus to feast on (according to Wikipedia), and the ocean is full of them. Seriously.

               Viruses are the most abundant biological entity in aquatic environments[65]—there are about one million of them in a teaspoon of seawater [66]—and they are essential to the regulation of sal****er and freshwater ecosystems. [67] Most of these viruses are bacteriophages…” (http://en.wikipedia....tion_to_viruses)

So, say you’re a Hanar doctor and your buddy Kepral starts coughing like a 80 year-old smoker. You take a look at his lungs and think, “Wow! Look at all that bacteria growth! That must be causing the problem.” You give him antibiotics to cut down on the bacteria, but the virus that you don’t know about just keeps chugging away and eventually the bacterium becomes resistant and you’re right back where you started. And that gene therapy that’s not really working? It turns out that the primary way bacteria protects itself from bacteriophages is by destroying any foreign DNA introduced to its system, like the DNA that bacteriophages uses to infect the bacteria…or like the DNA from the viruses used in gene therapy. 

So the solution to Kepral’s (assuming that any of this is right) is actually pretty simple. Stop looking at antibiotics and start looking at antivirals that could treat the actual root of the problem.
Anyway, that’s just my opinion, no need to spread it around.


Actually, a bacteriophage would make a lot of sense.  I don't, however, think that an anti-viral would cure the symbiotic bacteria in the lungs.   A stomach ulcer operates in a similar fashion, except without the bacteriophage.  The only way to really cure a stomach ulcer is to kill off ALL bacteria, including the good stuff.  Or do what you can to strengthen the surviving healthy bacteria and hope they kill off the bad/infected ones.

I think the only treatment you could really utilize would be to kill all the symbiotic bacteria and then reintroduce healthy organisms. 

If, in fact, this is how Kepral's works.

#1652
Shadow_Puppet

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Though it does make sense to tackle the root of the problem first i.e. the bacteriophage, in order to hinder the growth of yet more harmful bacteria and stop it from spreading throughout the body.

Then move on to dealing with the remaining bacteria, in whatever fashion applicable, whether that be kill them all, healthy and harmful and begin the process of re-introducing the healthy bacteria, or try to strengthen the healthy ones in the hope that they will destroy the harmful ones.

That is assuming of course dunefarble's theory applies.

Modifié par Shadow_Puppet, 23 mars 2010 - 05:32 .


#1653
dunefarble

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I think someone who has a better grasp of this kind of thing should help me lay it out and we can send it to BioWare (See! It can be done! <3).

#1654
Shadow_Puppet

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It was never actually a question of whether or not it could be done, I am sure given time the Hanar would indeed have found a cure, it's whether or not Thane can hold out until then. Posted Image

#1655
RShara

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Dang it Thane, hang in there. You've got reasons to live now!

#1656
Pacifien

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I never think of Kepral's Syndrome of being from bacterial or viral origin. It seemed to describe more of a pathophysiology of the lungs, much in the manner of cirrhosis with the liver. And as cirrhosis can have many causes, I suppose so could Kepral's Syndrome. But the key factor in cirrhosis isn't how someone got it, but the simple fact the damage is done.

Which I think is where Thane comes to his problem, because if Kepral's Syndrome is like cirrhosis, it means his lungs are irreparably damaged. To cure Thane would then mean finding a way to repair the lungs or even replace the lungs.

The hanar could figure out what causes Kepral's Syndrome and come up with preventative measures for the future, but the key word there is preventative. Or Thane could replace his lungs, but that would mean waiting for a drell donor. There simply aren't many drell. Thane's best bet at this point is to repair his lungs, but there doesn't seem to be either the technology, the money, or the time.

#1657
Sialater

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I don't think donors are the issue, rather time to grow the new lungs in whatever organ cloning method they use.



(I doubt Shep was rebuilt from spare parts, they had to have grown her new organs from whatever tissue was still viable, otherwise, rejection is still an issue.)

#1658
dunefarble

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Sialater wrote...

I don't think donors are the issue, rather time to grow the new lungs in whatever organ cloning method they use.

(I doubt Shep was rebuilt from spare parts, they had to have grown her new organs from whatever tissue was still viable, otherwise, rejection is still an issue.)


This and also, I could've sworn it mentioned that Kepral's was bacterial somewhere.  That's what kicked this off, is I thought it was strange for a bacterial issue.

#1659
Pacifien

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Sialater wrote...

I don't think donors are the issue, rather time to grow the new lungs in whatever organ cloning method they use.

(I doubt Shep was rebuilt from spare parts, they had to have grown her new organs from whatever tissue was still viable, otherwise, rejection is still an issue.)


Dammit, if only you hadn't killed Dr. Saleon....

#1660
Pacifien

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dunefarble wrote...
This and also, I could've sworn it mentioned that Kepral's was bacterial somewhere.  That's what kicked this off, is I thought it was strange for a bacterial issue.


I've been meaning to question the de facto nature of saying Kepral's Syndrome was bacterial. If it was stated in the game, I missed it.

#1661
Shadow_Puppet

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Who needs Dr. Saleon, when we have Dr. Mordin Solus, the guy was trying to find a cure for Vroliks Syndrome in his spare time, now if that doesn't spell dedication, I don't know what does! Posted Image

Modifié par Shadow_Puppet, 23 mars 2010 - 06:19 .


#1662
-Jaren-

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I support this thread! Speak loudly brothers and sisters!!

#1663
Guest_Shavon_*

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Shadow_Puppet wrote...

It was never actually a question of whether or not it could be done, I am sure given time the Hanar would indeed have found a cure, it's whether or not Thane can hold out until then. Posted Image


You know how they can put Jack in cry before fetching her?  I wonder if they could put Thane in a cryo-stasis, or medical-induced coma, until the coma is fully developed.  Of course, this would only work if this act also impedes the progression of the illness.  Idk, if they can impede the illness, than I guess he probably wouldn't need cry-stasis to begin with . . .
You know, even in my non-romance Thane playthroughs, I always make sure Mordin survives, you know, just in case . . . 

#1664
Shadow_Puppet

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Thank you so much for your support Jaren, much appreciated! Posted Image

Modifié par Shadow_Puppet, 23 mars 2010 - 06:24 .


#1665
Shadow_Puppet

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Either way I am going to remain optimistic on the whole situation. I would like to believe that we will be able to cure Thane somehow and I am sure BioWare will do a great job creating a story around it as to how it will be achieved, and also could make for good game play!

Seriously he's too good a character only to feature in one game, I want to see him again in ME3, as my LI and team mate! Posted Image

Modifié par Shadow_Puppet, 23 mars 2010 - 06:37 .


#1666
RShara

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From the Codex:



Because the drell ancestors emerged from arid, rocky deserts, the humid, ocean-covered hanar homeworld of Kahje proved tolerable only when the drell stayed inside a climate-controlled domed city. Due to this huge disparity in the two species' homeworld environments, the leading cause of death among drells on Kahje is a bacterial lung disease called Kepral's Syndrome.



Within a generation of the drell's arrival on the planet, the disease had become resistant to hanar antibiotics and other advanced treatments. Once an infection settles in, death is slow but imminent. Transplants may buy time, but as the infection spreads to other major organs there comes a point of diminishing returns and eventual systems failure.

#1667
Lara Denton

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I know you're talking serious business here and I fully support it, but I wanted to show you this. :crying:

Posted Image

:alien:

#1668
RShara

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I just don't know if that's good or bad........

#1669
Shadow_Puppet

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I like the idea of him wearing shades, but they hide his lovely eyes....



On the flip side, totally diggin' the piercings!


#1670
dunefarble

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For some reason I've felt like Thane probably surfed when he was younger. That picture has now cemented that as head-cannon.

#1671
RShara

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Ehm, humid environments=bad for drell, so probably not surfing :)



So I would guess the hanar's genetic solution is to prevent the infection from settling in the first place. Some way of preventing the spread to other organs+tissue repair on the lungs maybe?

#1672
Lara Denton

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RShara wrote...

Ehm, humid environments=bad for drell, so probably not surfing :)

So I would guess the hanar's genetic solution is to prevent the infection from settling in the first place. Some way of preventing the spread to other organs+tissue repair on the lungs maybe?


There has to be way. It is a Sci Fi story and Thane was no quite interested in looking for a cure before Shepard. But things have changed.

:alien:

#1673
Shadow_Puppet

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And we all know the rules when it comes to sci-fi - anything is possible!

#1674
kaimanaMM

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I'm with S_P, I like the idea of the shades, but his eyes are just one of his many interesting features, why cover them.  Marty McFly called, he wants his sunglasses back.

Added on to that, the devs / designers said the characters' eyes in ME2 were a huge thing, eyes convey emotion and they really wanted to bring that emotional impact across.

Let's say the Hanar came to Thane or we contacted them and they told us a way had been found prolong Thane's life.  To do so, they would need lung tissue that was his genetic match to regrow / implant, but the life of the donor would be significantly lessened or the donor could possibly not survive the procedure. 

Paragon persuade option aside, do you think Thane would consider asking / putting Kolyat through through that? 

#1675
RShara

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No, he wouldn't :( But hey, cloning organs should certainly be possible.