16751 réponses à ce sujet

[Lara Denton]

epoch_ wrote...

Good start. I made a post in the garrus thread asking for positives about him. I'll see what both of you guys have to say and decide based on that later today I think.

Garrus is my mainsheps bro, so it feels a bit weird to romance him on my femshep. Despite how bad ass he is. I loved how thane has an absolute ton of dialogue.

I know what you're doing here. You're going to crush the dreams of both Thane's and Garrus' fans of winning you over by going for Jacob. I'm on to you now.

[RShara]

Pacifien wrote...

I wonder what Thane's childhood must have been like. Was he trained with other children? Was it sombre, devoid of any of the delights of getting to behave as a child? Did he ever get to see his family? Is his insistence about the separation of body and soul truly a drell trait or one that was drilled into him for the very start of his training?
I also wonder what might have changed once he was with Irikah. Did he start to interact with the world around him more? Was it a smooth relationship or did his job cast an unspoken darkness over everything? Did she help him discover humor? Was he a proud father?
And finally, I wonder if the Thane we meet is much changed from who he was when he was when he took assassination jobs quite readily. Are we seeing a repentant man, brought down by the realization of the effects of his life's work? Was he cocky about it once?

I don't see Thane as damaged or repentent about most of his life.  The only sins he ever mentions as such are the ones where he let his wife's killers linger.  Plus, his guilt over being the inadvertant death of his wife, and abandoning his family.  During the last conversation cutscene, he also makes it clear that he is afraid to die, but who of us isn't?

In his dialogues, he tells how Irikah woke him up from his battle sleep, and showed him the world beyond his work.  I think that's the best answer I can give that doesn't go into the realms of speculation

[IccaRa]

Obligatory new page gif!







Now lemme catch up on some o' this discussion.

[RShara]

Icca you are going mad with that gif

[IccaRa]

epoch_ wrote...

I'm having issues choosing between garrus and thane for my main femshep. Thane thread, please give me positives points for thane.

Notice, I didn't say negatives about Garrus. Thank you for the help

It depends on who your Shepard is, so whoever meshes best with her should be who you go for.  You needn't even have added that last sentence, most (if not all!) of us here love Garrus and like his romance. We're not going to dog him for anything as silly as shipping wars or something.

Someone asked me some points I liked about Thane and I'll just copy-paste them here. This is, of course, my own personal opinion as to why he's one of my favorite characters.

* He managed to defy my expectations in a good way. I've never had a
special interest in assassins, I normally favor clutsy characters over
more serious ones, and as far as the romance department goes I've never
been into "older" men (although he isn't that old) or persons with
children, etc. Before release there were so many mixed signals about
him. I thought he might be something of a know-it-all, proud, vain,
etc. I was interested in seeing how he'd turn out in game. I assumed he
would be serious, all business. But then the first livestreams started
leaking and I saw that for such a serious guy he sure smiles a lot.
I love a good smile. Things just got better from there. I found myself
intrigued by all the elements I thought I'd only tolerate.



* Thane has a mature gravitas about him. I find it refreshing. He
feels like a peer more than a subordinate, someone who journeys with
Shepard out of honest desire rather than obligation. His ideals are
good ones. He wants to make the universe a brighter place than the one
he came into, but he isn't preachy about it. It's a personal decision.



* He will always let you know how he feels about something
(morally) but he doesn't question Shepard or challenge Shepard's
decisions. He lets him/her know his stance but still allows him/her to
take their own path. He gets on pretty well with both renegades and
paragons.


* He's strong but he doesn't posture about it. He acknowledges his
strengths and his weaknesses. He owns up to his mistakes. One can
disagree with his living gun analogy but he still recognizes the things
that he did. He's very open with Shepard, especially if romanced, and
keeps no secrets, preferring to explain himself and where he's coming
from. It feels like a relationship of equals. He doesn't *need* Shepard
for anything but he *wants* Shepard around and there's a real sense of
appreciation when Shepard reciprocates.



* He strikes a fine balance between the worldly and the spiritual.
He's confident but not arrogant. He's sensitive but not a pushover.
He'll listen, but he'll talk. He's the good cop and the bad cop. I find
this system of balance interesting.



* He's something of an avatar for things in my own life -- love and
life and loss, and what it means to be whole. I can empathize with him
in certain things. Some of what he's been through resonates with my own
experiences.



* While a mature, relatively serious individual he still maintains
a sense of humor. It's subtle, but I love his Mouse lines, his little
jabs at Shepard during some of their dialog and his Princess Bride
reference with the volus. It cracks me up.



* On a more shallow note, I adore his design. He's got an
incredible aesthetic, speaking from an artist's standpoint -- his
features are so intricate and symmetrical with bold splashes of color
counteracted by thick bands of black. He's got a lot of interesting
texture, great lips and incredibly expressive eyes for someone whose
eyes appear black in most lighting. And hey, his jacket is fantastic
and his voice... hmm, it's like an auditory back massager. I love it.



* And I love learning about different cultures, even space-man
lizard cultures. This goes for different spiritualities as well. It's
fascinating and I find the backstory of the drell to be almost
harrowing in how brutal, but... uplifting? it is.

[IccaRa]

RShara wrote...

Icca you are going mad with that gif

I can't help it. It makes me grin at how ridiculous it is.



But I do wonder just what a "dance crazy" session looks like. Equally as ridiculous?

[Lara Denton]

IccaRa wrote...

RShara wrote...

Icca you are going mad with that gif

I can't help it. It makes me grin at how ridiculous it is.



But I do wonder just what a "dance crazy" session looks like. Equally as ridiculous?

I imagine it being cute. Ridiculously cute and sweet.

Modifié par laradenton, 12 avril 2010 - 05:44 .

[kaimanaMM]

epoch_ wrote...

I'm having issues choosing between garrus and thane for my main femshep. Thane thread, please give me positives points for thane.

Notice, I didn't say negatives about Garrus. Thank you for the help

It depends on your own Shepard, I think. For me personally, I've only romanced Thane on my 3 playthroughs. Two of them didn't romance anyone in ME1, one moved on from her relationship with Kaidan. I will admit up front, I'm a total sucker for dark, handsome, stealthy assassin types. And while Thane is all these things, he is so much more.

Confidence is sexy no matter if you're a man or a woman and Thane has it in spades. But he's not overt or in your face about it. He exudes a quiet self-assurance in his skills and himself. He's not one to impose his will on anyone else but he's not above challenging Shepard's way of thinking.

He's thoughtful, well-spoken and well-read. He's grounded and has a strong sense of self in addition to being spiritual and philosophical. He sees gray alot more easily than black and white, yet he never once uses it as an excuse for any of his actions, only as an explanation.

Thane can solve his own problems. He's out to balance the scales, to bring right to some of the wrongs (not necessarily his own, he could have easily refused Shepard saying his/her problem was a human one). When he asks for help it's not because he expects Shepard to hold his hand and figure it out for him, it's because he sees Shepard as an equal whom he respects. If you persue the relationship it's easy to see how the mutual respect that Shepard and Thane share builds into attraction and then into love. And there's no question Thane loves Shepard.

His outlook could be horribly bleak, but he definitely has a sly, subtle sense of humor that comes out when you least expect it.

Along with that (and much more) his design is incredibly appealing. His body is lithe and muscular without being outlandish. His eyes are deep, dark and intense green in the inky black. His face is humanoid, but definitely alien. His lips are absolutely delicious. His clothing is perfect : stylishly understated yet not without flair (the jacket is a total lady killer and the way he pops his collar during his idle animation is simply swoon-worthy).

Modifié par kaimanaMM, 12 avril 2010 - 08:48 .

[IccaRa]

I like your sig, Kai!

[kaimanaMM]

Thanks!  I made it this morning, felt like a change, been working on a few more too, I'll get them posted up!  Now that things have slowed down a bit (for now) I can get back to what's really important, like Thane and how super cool his dance moves are.  I have alot of catching up to do.

I shamelessly snagged your own sig banners from NSAS a while back. 

Thane would be a fantastic dancer, graceful yet powerful, commanding yet subtle.  Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly combined, but without the flounce and all of the flourish.

[Sylph_14]

Everyone already said what I wanted to say about why Thane is so lovable



Now I have an urge to make sigs.

[MarginalBeast]

Looks like Thane knows how to "dance crazy".

IccaRa wrote...

It depends on who your Shepard is, so whoever meshes best with her should be who you go for.

Yeah, I agree with this. Garrus and Thane both have their strong points, so it's more about which one fits your Shepard better if you ask me.

Modifié par MarginalBeast, 13 avril 2010 - 02:50 .

[Peppard]

 kaimanaMM wrote...


Thane would be a fantastic dancer, graceful yet powerful, commanding yet subtle.  Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly combined, but without the flounce and all of the flourish.

And next to him, poor Shep will still look like she's trapped in a hunk of armor, imitating a drunk frat boy  

Kaimana -- your descriptions of thane are as poetic as he is a character   

Modifié par Peppard, 13 avril 2010 - 02:54 .

[kaimanaMM]

Peppard wrote...

 kaimanaMM wrote...


Thane would be a fantastic dancer, graceful yet powerful, commanding yet subtle.  Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly combined, but without the flounce and all of the flourish.

And next to him, poor Shep will still look like she's trapped in a hunk of armor, imitating a drunk frat boy   

Kaimana -- your descriptions of thane are as poetic as he is a character   

Which is both hilariously true and painfully tragic at the same time.

---

Thane: Intriguing.

Shepard: I know.  I just ... I don't dance.

Thane: You're certain that you'll have to?  Kasumi has gone to great lengths to get you both close enough to Donovan Hock.  It would be a shame to have you escorted out for breaking something.

Shepard: Breaking something?

Thane: Belonging to Hock.  Or yourself.  Either situation would be unpleasant.

Shepard: Fine.  Have any advice then?

Thane: Let Kasumi do the dancing.

Shepard: Not an option, unfortunately.

Thane: Borrow her tactical cloaking program.

Shepard: I begged.  No dice.

Thane: Watch and learn.

[Peppard]

I'm not sure, Flies, it's an interesting topic. Clearly Thane regrets the revenge killings he undertook to avenge his wife. He also took on some freelance jobs, outside those he performed as part of the Compact. I wonder if for those jobs, because he could sort of choose his clients, even if he didn't choose the target, whether he felt guilt. His whole argument about "an assassin is just a weapon" is one I feel is just BS, but maybe he does too, so he still feels guilty ?


And Kaimma: LOL....Shepard and dancing is a recipe for disaster

Modifié par Peppard, 13 avril 2010 - 06:34 .

[Shadow_Puppet]

Well Flies, if Thane does indeed feel guilty about certain other past actions he has yet to mention them. We can only work with what the game has given us so far and that is that he feels guilty over the murder of his wife and abandonment of his son.
 
Anyway this is my take on it, ok obviously the guy feels totally guilty over his wife’s death because he believes that he was responsible for it and in a way he kind of was – he knew his line of work was dangerous, he knew he would make enemies, those enemies proceeded to murder his wife, thus he failed to ensure his families safety.
 
Those enemies were actually Batarian slavers so we can all assume that Irikah did not receive a quick or merciful death from them, infact I believe it was quite the opposite as they murdered her in an act of revenge to send a message to Thane and at the end of the day, Thane truly did love Irikah, you can tell by the way he talks about her to Shepard and he no doubt bears a huge amount of guilt over her death.
 
Yes, Thane is and assassin, he assassinated targets for his various clients which also makes him a murderer of sorts, a murderer by profession (like Shepard) rather than a murderer by nature – he was trained to be an assassin from the age of 6 but if you pay attention to what he says in game – he was also taught to bring death quick and cleanly and that his body was merely the weapon, his client was the actual murderer, which is where his whole body is distinct from the soul belief comes in – the client used his body as a weapon to murder someone else and going on his beliefs his soul had nothing to do with it thus he does not feel guilty about any of his assassinations regardless of whether Shepard would think them immoral or not.
 
Yet in the case of the Batarians (when he finally caught up to them), there was no client, he didn’t grant them death quick or cleanly he let them linger for days in other words he tortured them – which was something he was never taught to do that he did based on his own emotions, something he does indeed feel rather guilty and he tells Shepard this at one point in the game.
 
Now if we look at Kolyat, he lost his mother AND his father at a young age – which he is obviously quite bitter about. He somehow discovers his father was an assassin and for his own reasons decides to try the lifestyle out for himself much to Thane’s dismay. Thane ejected himself from Kolyat’s life not because he didn’t want to raise him rather he didn’t want Kolyat to follow the same path that Thane himself did, he wanted better for him and again blames himself for Kolyat’s actions – although we do get the chance to turn this around in ME2, however if you fail his loyalty mission, believe me you only thought you saw guilt beforehand.
 
As for the praying, like he said himself, he prays for the wicked i.e. himself which I would assume are for all the past actions that he considers to be wicked, the past actions which ultimately led to certain consequences that he feels guilty over. By the time Shepard meets him in ME2 he has been removing people from the galaxy in order to make it a better place likely as an act of repentance for not being around enough for his family, Irikah’s murder, the torture and murder of the Batarians, Kolyat losing both his parents, Kolyats actions in ME2.
 
If you read between the lines there is definitely a lot there to feel guilty about and Thane is just the type of person that carries it all with him couple that with the perfect memory thing and it’s pretty easy to see why he appears that way in ME2. Maybe there’s more to it than that but for now that’s all we really have to work with, we shall have to wait for ME3!
 
That's my take on it anyhoo.....I think that's like the longest post I have ever made......

Modifié par Shadow_Puppet, 13 avril 2010 - 09:14 .

[Shadow_Puppet]

Stupid Double Post!

Modifié par Shadow_Puppet, 13 avril 2010 - 08:16 .

[kaimanaMM]

What actions of Thane's does he consider wicked? Afterall, Thane tells Shepard later on in the Normandy that he feels no regret over what assignments he took on but I get the feeling that his guilt involves more than just avenging his wife's death and the neglect of his son.

It possibly could, but I sincerely doubt it. Even in his trailer he says he feels no remorse for those he kills. Nor should he. Being a highly trained assassin (in addition to his religious beliefs) would make it relatively easy for him to dissassociate.

He considers killing Nassana wicked because he is disconnected. He explains to Shepard what it is to be disconnected when asking to find Kolyat. When one is disconnected (when the soul is weakened by despair or fear or when the body is ill or injured) the body does what the soul wills. Because Thane had finally accepted his death due to his illness (and his soul is in despair over his imminent death and ten years of lonliness), he is disconnected. Thus, his actions in the Dantius Towers reflect on his soul. Hence, he prays for himself since he sees himself as wicked.

Does his belief in the separation of one's actions from the soul (and how the two don't always influence each other) suggest that he is likely to have commited assassinations that we, playing as Shepard, would find immoral?

That's wholly dependent on the morality of your own Shepard. Thane's religious beliefs aren't in any way uncommon. From Christianity to Buddism, there is the belief that the soul is a precious thing and the body is merely a vessel for it.  For the Drell, it is taken almost literally.  The body is not the true self, the soul is.

Could he have killed a devoted father? I don't doubt it. Working for the Hanar, Thane was trained and then contracted to assassinate specific targets. It was not his decision to kill these targets, he was just the highly precise tool used too complete the job. In addition, the Hanar didn't choose these targets randomly. If they contracted Thane to assassinate someone, chances are they were doing something that involved the Hanar to some degree in a negative aspect.

Could he have not pulled the trigger? Obviously he didn't the day Irikah stepped in front off his spotting laser. However, he only says he didn't take the shot that day. Thane's been an assassin for 27 years, it's all he knows, it's who he is. He's a very morally gray character, whether you judge him to be a sinner or a saint is up to your own interpretation.

[RShara]

I don't see Thane as thinking most of his life was wicked. The only sins he ever mentions as such are the ones where he let his wife's killers linger. Plus, his guilt over being the inadvertant death of his wife, and abandoning his family.



He feels no guilt or remorse over any of his contracts, except for those that he took out of his own decision, and the impact of his life on his family. In my mind, he thinks he is wicked because of "abandoning" his family and letting his wife die, then *of his own volition* going after and brutally taking out her killers

[Peppard]

So, I've been wondering something. We know Thane's wife died 10 years ago, and he took off after her killers. Bailey also tells you that 10 years ago, a whole bunch of bad people were killed on the citadel, like someone was "cleaning house".



So at first, I thought Thane picked to kill Dantius because she was at the end of the trail of blood leading to Irikha's death, which was why she was his final target. Yet after Bailey's comment, it sounds more like Thane's revenge killings happened 10 years ago, right after Irikha's death. So ....why Dantius on ILlium ? There's lots of bad people to kill of course, maybe he just picked her at random, and it was a plot convenience and not much thought behind it. But I don't remember there being a conversation about this even, out of all the evil folks in the galaxy, what led Thane to that place, that contact? Where of course, Samara and Miranda's loyalty quests just happened to be

[Shadow_Puppet]

Probably just plot convienence and for all we know he just chose Nassana randomly, although he did say that he lived on Illium for two years at one point during the game, maybe he already knew about her and decided that it was time he finally bumped her off and get himself killed at the same time - he does tell Shepard he wasn't planning on coming out of the tower alive - so it basically hitting the two birds with one stone - that is until Shepard intervened.

Modifié par Shadow_Puppet, 13 avril 2010 - 09:59 .

[RShara]

Dantius was a commission that he took on gratis, iirc. During the shuttle ride, Seryna says that he told her he wasn't doing it for pay. Then after you meet up with him, he says that the Dantius commission was to be his last, because he was dying.

[kaimanaMM]

I think Nassanna Dantius was convienient (and Miranda and Samara's quests are there).  Like S_P said, he tells Shepard he's been living on Illium for two years.  What brought him there, he never says.  Illium is most likely a great place to lose yourself and a decent base of operations for an assassin.

What is strange to me, is that Bailey tells Shepard it looks like someone was cleaning house ten years ago at the Citadel.  Batarians aren't exactly welcome at the Citadel and if BDtS showed us anything, it's that Batarians have a very big chip on their shoulder when it comes to the Council races (not just humans, though they're at the top of the list).  I know it's said just to move the plot along and probably help us identify with Thane, but it just seems a tad out of place is all.