16751 réponses à ce sujet

[Epantiras]

51ha wrote...
And if you want reality than don’t look for it in mass effect because fighting in high heels and with boobs hanging out is not very realistic, therefore I want my cure.

Fighting on high heels? Yeah I think we might get a cure for him after all ;-)

51ha wrote...
And I read in the codex that transplants can buy some time but are not a long term solution. So I don’t know what still the problem is. Or we could just give him some “Heavy lung weave”. Or a cool breathing mask. He would really look cool in one of those SITH ones.

Or maybe use some Cerberus tech to do a Lazarus project on him? (Hey he'd look cool with a Sith mask!)
My personal opinion is that the hanar DO have the cure for that illness, but they keep it secret because it helps to prevent the drell population to increase too much. Or maybe they even CREATED IT! A sort of  "drell genophage" to keep that race enlsaved. Because I haven't dismissed the "drell are slaves of the hanar" thing.

[Pacifien]

I agree the developers could have easily left out the disease aspect of Thane's character and have him just as easily join Shepard. The driving force behind Thane's character isn't so much that he's dying, but that he's a penitent man. I suspect he's been such ever since he willingly tortured and killed Irikah's killers.

But seeing as the developers throughthrew in the disease aspect, I think there's character development to be found in maintaining it. Shepard has performed a dozen hat tricks, including his own resurrection from death. But there is something to be said about how all the technology in the world can't stave off death forever. Unless you're President Huerta apparently.

If ME3 takes up right where ME2 left off, I can see the developers never even addressing the issue and leaving his fate up to the player.

ETA: Damn homonyms...

Modifié par Pacifien, 18 mai 2010 - 05:56 .

[Persephone]

Rebe70 wrote...

I agree, I thought that Thane would be more (or at least 'prefer') close combat killing. He did mention that was his prefered style, unless I am mistaken? Kasumi shows that this is achieveable with a character. But perhaps they will develop this more in ME3.
As for Kolyat in some way 'replacing' Thane...well, I don't even...please don't even go there Bioware.<_<
But I do like the idea of him being in ME3 and the relationship between Thane and him developed further as a side story/quest.

And, just because I need to say it, I really want Thane saved in some way. I know some don't, but even if his life is extended I would be happy. Huge side quest please. I really don't want a DO:O 'Sacrifice' ending repeated with Thane giving his life for Shep - I would be unbelievably sad    The thing that makes me nervous is that, when you talk to him about dying, he says something along the lines of 'to really appreciate something you have to lose it to know how much it truly meant'  No, Thane. No I don't!

Heh, that is why I always do Morrigan's ritual. The sacrifice endings are SO sad. (Including letting Loghain do it)

[Pacifien]

So while thinking about just how much each squadmate enjoys their kills (don't ask, that's just where my mind goes), I was thinking about how the developers described Thane before ME2 came out and we were being shown the footage on the Dantius Towers. In that footage, he is a very personal killer, actually holding onto his target, watching her die, and placing her gently into a death pose. In that situation, killing truly is an art for which he is a master.

Unfortunately, then he starts telling Shepard about removing the soul from the body, and that his actions as an assassin were simply someone else using his body as a weapon. I tend to think the soul is somewhat crucial to art, so from that description, killing is simply the end product of his role.

Okay, but then he tells Shepard about how someone was pushing him harder and faster to reach the target once he realized someone other than the Eclipse guards and leftover workers were moving through the building. Shepard can then ask him about hurting his pride, to which he admits having some.

Is he the craftsman or just the tool? It's like he doesn't even realize that he doesn't even know. He'll put his entire self into a properly executed assassination, but won't admit his soul had anything to do with the final result. I mean, I understand that an assassin probably has to enter a frame of mind where everything they do must be precise and mechanical. Just as Samara can't stop to question if her target is a loving father, neither can Thane. But Samara says she feels for every life she's taken, while Thane says he feels nothing.

It's like he wants to believe that he's truly a good soul. That's what disturbs him so much about how he went about eliminating Irikah's killers. But I think his removal of soul from the act of killing is what leaves his soul incomplete in the end. Like he never accepts who he is completely, both a good soul and a merciless soul.

[Collider]

That's the result of his assassination training, it appears, Pacifien. An emotional disconnect from his killings would likely make him a more reliable servant.

[Lara Denton]

Pacifien wrote...
It's like he wants to believe that he's truly a good soul. That's what disturbs him so much about how he went about eliminating Irikah's killers. But I think his removal of soul from the act of killing is what leaves his soul incomplete in the end. Like he never accepts who he is completely, both a good soul and a merciless soul.

From a human perspective, that would be right. But add his beliefs and the context of the world he lives in and things start to look different. I think it's more about accepting than understanding. He's alien, his world is alien, and his beliefs are alien.

Or maybe being very good at what you're doing does not equal with putting your soul on the line. Especially when his personal views conflict with what he was/is doing.

Did he put his soul into helping Shepard to save the universe? Yes. Did he put his soul in doing his (previous) job? No.

He is also "disconnected". This adds to the confusion. Beside the explanation he gives, my understanding is that he lost his balance; he has lost his control over his life.

Collider wrote...
That's the result of his assassination training, it appears, Pacifien. An emotional disconnect from his killings would likely make him a more reliable servant.

And then there's this: his training and being in the service of the Hanar. He has free will and he feels insulted if you're telling him that the Hanar have made the Drells slaves. But from a certain human perspective, they kinda are. Unless we're going to find out more about their society this remains open to speculation.

Modifié par laradenton, 20 mai 2010 - 12:24 .

[Lara Denton]

I just found this and it fits right in with the discussion. It depicts Thane's life before meeting Shepard. It's quite lovely. Right Click -> view image for the big version.


By pen-gwyn

Modifié par laradenton, 20 mai 2010 - 12:39 .

[Pacifien]

I guess the part about Thane's separation of body and soul, his disconnect from the job, that rings somewhat false to me is the amount of care he puts into taking out Nassana. What's shown is a very personal kill, probably somewhat brought on by his guilt over some of the salarian workers.

You could chalk it up to his being alien, having grown in a different environment. It's not much of an explanation. It's kind of hard to understand what makes an alien think if you don't think it out yourself and work around the limitations of description for alien thinking.

Really like pen-gwyn's work.

Modifié par Pacifien, 20 mai 2010 - 04:02 .

[Epantiras]

I never understood the "I didn't chose to kill them, someone else did" thing. Speaking of Zevran, he HAD to because it was either obeying or being killed, but Thane never mentioned that. Maybe he really had no other choice, but I also had the impression that he wasn't forced to be an assassin.

51ha wrote...

OR

(says quietly) The Hanar are manipulating him. Who knows what’s in those tentacles.

^^^^^^^^
this!!!

[Collider]

He was forced to be an assassin. Granted eventually he had his freedom, that's for certain, but at an early age he was basically abandoned by his parents and given to the hanar to be raised as an assassin. There's not much choice involved with that.

[Homebound]

Thane, he needs to be more badass in ME3. After the first cutscene, he's totally forgettable.

[RShara]

In some of the (I think) cut dialogue, he says, "I was six when the hanar began to train me. I didn't know any better."

[Persephone]

RShara wrote...

In some of the (I think) cut dialogue, he says, "I was six when the hanar began to train me. I didn't know any better."

Not cut. I had that conversation with him. You can basically accuse the Hanar of being wimpy slavers in that convo, it's the only time where Thane loses his composure outside his loyalty mission & romance cutscene.:wub:

[RShara]

No, this isn't the "The hanar sound like wimps/That sounds like slavery-that can't be legal/Don't insult me Shepard" conversation on the Normandy. It's something that could have been part of Thane's conversation with Kolyat.

Modifié par RShara, 20 mai 2010 - 06:19 .

[Pacifien]

51ha wrote...
I only have a problem with his not feeling guilty thing if he didn't kill only bad people. I think he did. I don’t think he would have such a high respect for the Hanar if they wanted him to kill innocents. And he probably only took those contracts that were meant for the most evil bastards. So why if he killed only the bad guys should he be judged differently than Mordin or Garrus or all the others. He only says he doesn’t feel guilty because he didn’t chose to kill them, someone else did. He probably feels remorse for the innocent victims that find themselves in the fire fight, like those salarians in Dantius Tower. He probably never killed an innocent in his live. And he is an alien.

He can claim to have never killed an innocent in his life because he is not the killer, just the weapon. I have no doubt some of those he assassinated were political leaders, loving fathers and mothers, brilliant competitors. Assassination is typically not the weapon of choice for good people. And I don't see why the Hanar would be exempt from all the races in having their corrupt citizens as well.

I'd go so far to say he has killed innocent people in his life. He killed whoever was responsible for his wife's murder, every single one of them. He made them suffer. If he was any good at it and if really wanted to make them feel as he felt, he probably did more than just break every bone in their bodies. You'd also have to wonder where he drew the line on who was responsible for his wife's death. Did he take out the driver, too? Those who were giving the killers safe haven on the Citadel?

Thane is a nice guy. My Shepard is nice, too. Mordin is nice. Jacob is nice. The Normandy crew has a good share of nice people. And they're all killers. Some a bit more gleeful about it than others.

[Persephone]

RShara wrote...

No, this isn't the "The hanar sound like wimps/That sounds like slavery-that can't be legal/Don't insult me Shepard" conversation on the Normandy. It's something that could have been part of Thane's conversation with Kolyat.

Ah, gotcha. But doesn't he say something like that to Kolyat after Kolyat asks about what makes it alright for his Dad to have killed for all those years?

[Fiery Phoenix]

Pacifien wrote...

51ha wrote...
I only have a problem with his not feeling guilty thing if he didn't kill only bad people. I think he did. I don’t think he would have such a high respect for the Hanar if they wanted him to kill innocents. And he probably only took those contracts that were meant for the most evil bastards. So why if he killed only the bad guys should he be judged differently than Mordin or Garrus or all the others. He only says he doesn’t feel guilty because he didn’t chose to kill them, someone else did. He probably feels remorse for the innocent victims that find themselves in the fire fight, like those salarians in Dantius Tower. He probably never killed an innocent in his live. And he is an alien.

He can claim to have never killed an innocent in his life because he is not the killer, just the weapon. I have no doubt some of those he assassinated were political leaders, loving fathers and mothers, brilliant competitors. Assassination is typically not the weapon of choice for good people. And I don't see why the Hanar would be exempt from all the races in having their corrupt citizens as well.

I'd go so far to say he has killed innocent people in his life. He killed whoever was responsible for his wife's murder, every single one of them. He made them suffer. If he was any good at it and if really wanted to make them feel as he felt, he probably did more than just break every bone in their bodies. You'd also have to wonder where he drew the line on who was responsible for his wife's death. Did he take out the driver, too? Those who were giving the killers safe haven on the Citadel?

Thane is a nice guy. My Shepard is nice, too. Mordin is nice. Jacob is nice. The Normandy crew has a good share of nice people. And they're all killers. Some a bit more gleeful about it than others.

Am I the only one who found that bit hilarious?

On topic, I personally don't think he will truly regret ANY of his kills as long as he believes in the claim that his body did the dirty work, but not his soul. He seems exceptionally faithful in his beliefs, especially that one in particular.

[Homebound]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

51ha wrote...
I only have a problem with his not feeling guilty thing if he didn't kill only bad people. I think he did. I don’t think he would have such a high respect for the Hanar if they wanted him to kill innocents. And he probably only took those contracts that were meant for the most evil bastards. So why if he killed only the bad guys should he be judged differently than Mordin or Garrus or all the others. He only says he doesn’t feel guilty because he didn’t chose to kill them, someone else did. He probably feels remorse for the innocent victims that find themselves in the fire fight, like those salarians in Dantius Tower. He probably never killed an innocent in his live. And he is an alien.

He can claim to have never killed an innocent in his life because he is not the killer, just the weapon. I have no doubt some of those he assassinated were political leaders, loving fathers and mothers, brilliant competitors. Assassination is typically not the weapon of choice for good people. And I don't see why the Hanar would be exempt from all the races in having their corrupt citizens as well.

I'd go so far to say he has killed innocent people in his life. He killed whoever was responsible for his wife's murder, every single one of them. He made them suffer. If he was any good at it and if really wanted to make them feel as he felt, he probably did more than just break every bone in their bodies. You'd also have to wonder where he drew the line on who was responsible for his wife's death. Did he take out the driver, too? Those who were giving the killers safe haven on the Citadel?

Thane is a nice guy. My Shepard is nice, too. Mordin is nice. Jacob is nice. The Normandy crew has a good share of nice people. And they're all killers. Some a bit more gleeful about it than others.

Am I the only one who found that bit hilarious?

On topic, I personally don't think he will truly regret ANY of his kills as long as he believes in the claim that his body did the dirty work, but not his soul. He seems exceptionally faithful in his beliefs, especially that one in particular.

Thane is suffering from Garrus-Syndrome.  Remember how lame Garrus was in Mass1?  Man, I hope Bioware pulls it together in the end like they did for Garrus in Mass2. Garrus is like, in my personal top 3 fav characters. I see the potential for Thane to be up there too, he just needs to murder someone.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Just_mike wrote...

Thane is suffering from Garrus-Syndrome.  Remember how lame Garrus was in Mass1?  Man, I hope Bioware pulls it together in the end like they did for Garrus in Mass2. Garrus is like, in my personal top 3 fav characters. I see the potential for Thane to be up there too, he just needs to be cured. .

Fixt.

[RShara]

Persephone wrote...

RShara wrote...

No, this isn't the "The hanar sound like wimps/That sounds like slavery-that can't be legal/Don't insult me Shepard" conversation on the Normandy. It's something that could have been part of Thane's conversation with Kolyat.

Ah, gotcha. But doesn't he say something like that to Kolyat after Kolyat asks about what makes it alright for his Dad to have killed for all those years?

I never chose that conversation option, so I've never actually heard the quote in game (thus the I think in parenthesis) 
It sounds like a lot of his remorse is -- not for the assassinations themselves-- but for letting his body become a tool.

[Pacifien]

51ha wrote...
Even bad guys can be devoted fathers, that doesn’t mean they are innocent. Those batarians that he killed – he said that killing for them was like sport – those batarians were evil. They killed an innocent mother because they were too cowardly to come after him. And we all know that politicians are usually not the good guys. Although deep down he probably still feels guilty. He is probably conflicted. He should hate the hanar for making him an assassin.

The hanar gave him and his family a great honor. They trained him to be the best in a unique field. While they trained him to take life, his skills provide him great opportunity to save lives as well. He does take considerable pride in his work.

As for the evil or innocence of various victims, it's all subjective. To the child whose father was killed, they see only a caring and good person taken from them. To a politician, the methods used may be harsh but the goals may be admirable. To the batarians who killed his wife, we get a description of who they are from a man who has every reason to hate them. And again, at what point to you draw the line between who has done bad from being good?

This is why I often like to compare Thane with Samara, as they both take a philosophical approach to the way they conduct their lives. Thane's line of work discourages in-depth evaluation of the soul of one's target. Samara's line of work, the soul of one's target is secondary to the injustice in which they have partaken. Samara says she feels for every life she has taken. Thane says he usually feels nothing. They have two very similar approaches to their work with two rather different approaches in how they view themselves for it.