24 réponses à ce sujet

[chengda85]

so the protheans made the conduit to backdoor into the citadel to hack the code to prevent reapers from entering, but I dont undersand some stuff.

when did they make the conduit? they couldnt have made it before the reaper invasion because the reapers took the protheans by surprise, So how did they manage to build the conduit in the citadel while the reapers were running around killing all the protheans? Or did the protheans somehow figured out that the reapers were coming beforehand so they built the conduit on the citadel before the reapers came? If thats the case why didnt it  get destroyed by the reapers?

Also, what really was the point of Saren finding the conduit? I mean he didnt need a backdoor to enter the citadel, he could have just entered citadel the normal way right?The Prothean scientists used the conduit to enter the citadel and disable the reaper's entrance, what other purpose did using the conduit serve?

Lastly, why didnt Sovereign just invade citadel right from the start and take control of it? its not like anything could even damage it

[AntiChri5]

It wasnt intended as a backdoor into the citadel. It only functios as one. They were trying to make a mini relay (just to see if they could).

[wardog7789]

no that cant be why all the attacks if thay were making a mini relay i think thay wood not go all out on the citadel

[chengda85]

AntiChri5 wrote...

It wasnt intended as a backdoor into the citadel. It only functios as one. They were trying to make a mini relay (just to see if they could).

really. is this stated in the game? because I thought the whole point of the conduit was for them to enter the citadel and disable the entrance for the reapers.

[DPSSOC]

chengda85 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

It wasnt intended as a backdoor into the citadel. It only functios as one. They were trying to make a mini relay (just to see if they could).

really. is this stated in the game? because I thought the whole point of the conduit was for them to enter the citadel and disable the entrance for the reapers.

That's what the plan was after the scientists were unfrozen.  The Conduit was originally a science project, they had managed to figure out how to make a working relay and they were giving it a go.  The reason it links to the Citadel is because they were probably building it into the existing relay network (of which the Citadel was the hub) and even if they weren't, miraculously appearing in the Citadel would be great for demonstration purposes.  Also the Citadel is safe and relatively stationary compared to trying to link to a planet.

So originally no the Conduit was not meant as a backdoor to the Citadel it was just a prototype for a Prothean made working mass relay.  We know this because the project on Ilos had already been going, and in fact was nearly complete, when the Reapers arrive and as Vigil says the Reapers took the Protheans entirely by surprise.

[Karstedt]

To die trying.

[grregg]

chengda85 wrote...

(...)

Also, what really was the point of Saren finding the conduit? I mean he didnt need a backdoor to enter the citadel, he could have just entered citadel the normal way right?The Prothean scientists used the conduit to enter the citadel and disable the reaper's entrance, what other purpose did using the conduit serve?

Lastly, why didnt Sovereign just invade citadel right from the start and take control of it? its not like anything could even damage it

This is, in my opinion, the biggest weakness of ME1 plot. Saren/Sovereign picked up the most complicated, convoluted, straight out impossible way of getting to Citadel. They essentially asked for failure. It is a minor miracle that they got as far as they did.

[Hyper Cutter]

chengda85 wrote...

Lastly, why didnt Sovereign just invade citadel right from the start and take control of it? its not like anything could even damage it

You clearly didn't talk to Vigil very thoroughly.  You can ask it pretty much exactly that, and Vigil points out that this would probably have been suicidal, even for Sovereign.

[chengda85]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

chengda85 wrote...

Lastly, why didnt Sovereign just invade citadel right from the start and take control of it? its not like anything could even damage it

You clearly didn't talk to Vigil very thoroughly.  You can ask it pretty much exactly that, and Vigil points out that this would probably have been suicidal, even for Sovereign.

its been a years since i played ME so i probably forgot that, but I dont see how that will be suicidal tho since it was clear that the combined firepower of the entire council fleet couldnt put a dent in Sovereign until Shepard killed Husk Saren.

[sivant]

In case you are a bit confused by these replies... I will summarize....



The conduit was built before the reaper's invasion, the protheans just wanted to build a mass relay based on the technoogy they had discovered (remember, teh reapers had buil the citidel, adn the mass relays and placed the entire system as a trap. To the protheans, these were teh gifts of some ancient advanced race)

when the reapers arrived, the protheans were denied access to the relay system, which effectively devided the prothean empire, isolating every region of space, and the reapers conquered.

Those at illos bunkered and hibernated

the only survivors of the hubernation were a small group of specialist

they used the conduit to access the citidel, and reprogrammed the citidel to no longer have the remotely opperatable back door to intersteller space and shutdown (of the network) sequence. however, there were too few of them to continue the species, and so they left the system intact with instructions for the VI to help whoever arrived and was not affected by indoctrination... this would be shepherd and crew



The prothean VI, vigil, explains all of this, and a bit more, like

sovereign is not invincible, and not likely to survive a direct assault on the citidel. His goal was to restore proper functioning of the citidel (as a back door for the rest of the reapers) and in order to do this, would need to access the citidel's mainframe to reprogram the hacked code... this is what the spectre saren was trying to do when you arrive and fight him.



Sovereign was not expecting to take an army of krogan and geth and conquer the ctidel from outside. If it could do that, it would have done so from the start, and then called the rest of the reapers (or not... as obviously they wold be unnecesary)



Sovereign needed all the ground troops for just one goal.. to invade and secure the citidel so that it could be reprogramed and he could call reinforcements. Failure to call the reapers would, and did, result in its demise.



essentially sovereign awoke, tried to open the door, and found it broken, and not being able to fight the highly evolved races alone, tried a very large and drawn out plan of espeanage to get the door open, and failed.



Something of note, saren accessed teh mainframe from the councel chambers. This is something teh councel would not have let him do. It reasons that he was expecting them to evacuate during the attack, and hsi army to clear out any resistance.

[chengda85]

I see, so what was sovereign doing when he attached himself to the citadel tower? I thought he was attempting to hack into the citadel?

[supakillaii]

Yes, he's hacking into the Citadel

Modifié par supakillaii, 04 février 2010 - 10:17 .

[supakillaii]

grregg wrote...

chengda85 wrote...

(...)

Also, what really was the point of Saren finding the conduit? I mean he didnt need a backdoor to enter the citadel, he could have just entered citadel the normal way right?The Prothean scientists used the conduit to enter the citadel and disable the reaper's entrance, what other purpose did using the conduit serve?

Lastly, why didnt Sovereign just invade citadel right from the start and take control of it? its not like anything could even damage it

This is, in my opinion, the biggest weakness of ME1 plot. Saren/Sovereign picked up the most complicated, convoluted, straight out impossible way of getting to Citadel. They essentially asked for failure. It is a minor miracle that they got as far as they did.

If Saren had accessed the MCU casually, he'd have been shot before doing anything.
Sovereign would have gotten his ass kicked if he had tried to attack Citadel on his own. He is Reaper, that doesn't mean he's Invincible.

[grregg]

supakillaii wrote...

(...)

If Saren had accessed the MCU casually, he'd have been shot before doing anything.
Sovereign would have gotten his ass kicked if he had tried to attack Citadel on his own. He is Reaper, that doesn't mean he's Invincible.

Why would he be shot? C-Sec is in habit of shooting the most trusted Spectres? I understand that if Saren tried to tinker with the console right in the middle of a Council meeting, he might arouse suspicion, but surely Council does not camp there 24/7, does it?

Spectres' authority is a bit murky, but perhaps if Saren chose a quiet moment in there, it would be enough to shout "Spectres business! Everyone leave!" and it might work. Why would they question him? 

Even if violent approach is necessary, why didn't Saren sneak geth into the Citadel, the same way he did on Noveria? Noveria is portrayed as having much tighter security and yet he managed. The Citadel should be a piece of cake. And remember that he would be operating as a trusted Spectre, not as a wanted fugitive.

Finally, think over what Saren/Sovereign tried to do. There are several impossibilities in there. It's only through the power of the plot that they managed to get as far as they did.

[chengda85]

supakillaii wrote...

Yes, he's hacking into the Citadel

so why did he need saren to do the hacking  if he could hack into the citadel?

[Kasumimi]

chengda85 wrote...

supakillaii wrote...

Yes, he's hacking into the Citadel

so why did he need saren to do the hacking  if he could hack into the citadel?

I'm not sure I remember the last videos properly but I'm pretty sure that Saren had to be inside to prevent the Citadel from shutting it's... errr "wings". After Sovereign is inside he then shuts them to prevent the other races's ships to interrupt Sovereign while it's hacking into the Citadel.

[TheDFO]

Kasumimi wrote...

chengda85 wrote...

supakillaii wrote...

Yes, he's hacking into the Citadel

so why did he need saren to do the hacking  if he could hack into the citadel?

I'm not sure I remember the last videos properly but I'm pretty sure that Saren had to be inside to prevent the Citadel from shutting it's... errr "wings". After Sovereign is inside he then shuts them to prevent the other races's ships to interrupt Sovereign while it's hacking into the Citadel.

That. While Sovereign could have hacked the citadel by his lonesome, he would have been incredibly vulnerable just sittin there. He needed Saren inside to shut the wards, thus protecting sovereign while he opened up the citadel relay.

That means Saren was never going to, nor ever could activate the relay inside. They needed to bring sovereign in to manually open the relay.

[chengda85]

so the only thing saren did was shut the citadel arms??? why couldnt sovereign do that? if he could open the relay he could shut the arms

[Yzzid]

Most importantly, since at the start of the game saren already have a geth army, why doesn't he :

Go to the council room using his specter status
Kill everyone (helped by matriarch benezia and the asari commando if needed) and start taking control of the citadel

While in the meantime

Sovereign and the geth ships do the same attack they did at the end of the game.

It essentially mean the conduit was useless and we lose before beginning the game, but i don't see any non gameplay reason why he couldn't do it.

I really love Mass Effect, but unless i missed something (which is quite possible ), the whole plot doesn't work

Modifié par Yzzid, 05 février 2010 - 11:07 .

[Homebound]

The Protheans wanted to make some delicious human-flavoured Milkshake.

[Jan Morsch]

Did Saren not need to visit Ilos to find out how to reprogram the keepers? Or at least to find out how the protheans made it so that the signal (sent to allow the entrance of the reaper fleet) did not work anymore? Sovereign could probably have invaded at the start, but than he would not have been aware about what the problem was, and I am not sure he would have been able to reprogram anything. He needed Saren for that, and Saren needed to know what happened (after all, the game states Saren visited Vigil as well, and he probably got the info there). Or did I misinterpret the game? It has been a while since I last played it. Cheers!

[Yzzid]

Sovereign / Saren not knowing what happened could possibly be an explanation I suppose.



But I don't remember Saren visiting Vigil. I think Vigil even say that Saren was indoctrinated, so he didn't stop him. And Sovereign plan wasn't to reprogram the keeper (he wanted to replace them by geth for the next cycle).



Since he knew from the start that the keeper weren't reacting to his signal, the most logical step from the start (and thats what he try to do at the end) would have been to activate manually the citadel relay (which his race built). That's even what he tried to do at the end...



But maybe Sovereign wanted to play it safe, to learn what happened and what the conduit was from the beacons in order to ensure that it never happened again. So he waited to know everything, prepare everything, and so his big chance disappeared when Saren was fired



That could probably work, but if that's the case, it should have been told more clearly.

[ME2Shephard]

Saren did visit Vigil. When you walk up to him he says "you do not bere the taint as the other before you did." Secondly Saren needed the Conduit to bypass Citadel Security defenses with the Geth army. Even through it wasn't flushed out in the first game, Citadel Security was higher than that on Noveria's due to the population there. Yes Noveria felt like it was more secure but it wasn't. Saren wouldn't have gotten the Geth through customs checks. Thirdly, Sarens Spectre status got revoked. He is no longer a Spectre and thus he can't due what he pleases. If he didn't get it revoked and he goes into the Citadel and opens the relay with Sovereign, the game is over before it began. Come on, who would play that? The story may have some flaws because not everything is explained but that doesn't make the story any less fun to go through

[sivant]

while not made clear, it is safe to assume that seren knew waht the conduit was. Sovereign needed only to know taht the citidel could nto be operated remotely to decide to go in person, but he could not safely do so. He required an army to keep him safe while approaching it.



I am not sure sovereign could hack the citidel. sovereign could control someone to push the button on teh mainframe, but his physical form, taht giant hand ship, could not operate the mainframe's keyboars. The hack the protheans executed prevented him from accessing teh citidel wirelessly. So it was necessary for someone to walk into the council chambers, and operate the mainframe directly. Ostensibly, a geth could do it, but seren had the honor.



Seren could not have walked into the council chambers and simply killed the council and been fine. First off all, his goal was to operate the citidel, not kill the council, and if he had attacked teh council, he would have been very dead before finishing. He needed to secure teh council chambers, so taht he could operate the mainframe from there. And for this, he needed an army. Geth were the army he had, probably because this was teh army sovereign could get him. I'm sure you can imagine that the council races would not have allowed a fleet of ships loaded with geth to just show up and camp at teh citidel. Seren needed a way to get in, deeply in, and fast. By using the conduit he didn't have to fight through miles of city taht forms most of the citidel. He simply showed up at the captiol, and went up the elevator to the council chambers, while his army wrecked havoc and kept the path blocked behind him.





Seren didn't have the option of using the conduit before finding illos, and I am not sure he knew where teh conduit was at the start of the game, rather he is tryign to find it from the start, which is why he was interested in prothean ruins.



In fact, the only part of teh story taht doesn't make good sense are Serens attempts at a racni and krogan army. Both troop types would have proven too slow to grow into an army before calling the reapers, and I would think unneccesary after they are called, although maybe not, maybe the reapers are *that* vulnerable (they didn't take on teh protheans all at once, and perhaps could not have won that fight).



This may have been Seren when in a more confused state about his own motives.

[Veritasinpersonam]

Saren DID NOT visit VIGIL. Vigil set up barriers to stop Shepard to speak with him/her because Shepard was not indoctrinated. Saren was most likley never even made aware of Vigil's presence.