416 réponses à ce sujet

[Barquiel]

Vaenier wrote...


On topic: I kept the base because it is the paragon thing to do.

Well, Bioware and your squadmates disagree.

[KnightofPhoenix]

tariq071 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


Except that the Romans or the Arabs or the British were not exterminated when their civilsaition fell. Try harder.
And that's our human history. I can't change it for you. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

Only because there was no technology available for that.

Salian laws show definite attemp to it,Saxon's invasion of Britain tried the same,Reqonquista, Conquest of Americas and  Mongols tried to do the same during their invasion of Muslim world(and part of Europe), by massacring everyone except few that they needed for their own use (think indoctrination in game terms)

Not different from Reapers at all, and it still doesn't justify Hegemony(ot totalitarity) being positive.

Again, you it is very obvious to me that you never tasted real war(luckily for you ) and without that no one can comprehend what real war is. All what you can see is gloryfied holywood presentation that is far from reality, unless you have been in one.

They didn't. They utilized mass murder yes. But not total extermination and definately not harvesting.
And you really need to study what "totalitarian" means. It's a modern political system. It had nothing to do with the prievous, or current global hegemons. The USA today is not totalitarian, neither domestically nor abroad.

But fine, if you think humans are like the REapers, then go right ahead.  
 
Sir, I am half Jewish and half Arab and I have seen my people slaughter each other for the past 2 decades,  while I was there, and I lost family and friends from both sides. And that;'s not to mention the wars that happened in the neighbourhood. So don't you dare lecture me about war. Still won't change how I view the big picture. Reaching an objective and impartial state of mind is what I try to do.

Now I will ask you to stop with this personal attack, as it has nothign to do with the topic at hand.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 février 2010 - 09:43 .

[Mallissin]

tariq071 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

First thing: Why does every alien refer to someone's balls as their "quads"?

On topic: I kept the base because it is the paragon thing to do. It would take one hell of a selfish renegade to blow up the greatest chance the galaxy has for survival because you don't like it.

If that's Paragon thing, how many Paragon points you got for keeping it ?

You don't get points either way. Soooo...?

Oh, and Krogan have four testicles. Hence the "quads".

[Mallissin]

Barquiel wrote...
Well, Bioware and your squadmates disagree.

Where's Bioware say it's Paragon or Renegade?

[tariq071]

Mallissin wrote...

You don't get points either way. Soooo...?

Oh, and Krogan have four testicles. Hence the "quads".

Not quite, check again about points...I got tons of Paragon(19 or 29 , not sure anymore) for telling TI Mthat i am blowing up the base.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Now I will ask you to stop with this personal attack, as it has nothign to do with the topic at hand.  

Fair enough , i appologize if i got to personal .

Modifié par tariq071, 04 février 2010 - 09:47 .

[tmp7704]

Vaenier wrote...

First thing: Why does every alien refer to someone's balls as their "quads"?

Supposedly it's running joke the devs picked up from penny-arcade forums -- Krogans have four testicles hence "quads". I don't think other aliens refer to their own package as such, usually when you hear it it's about the Krogans.

[KnightofPhoenix]

tariq071 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Now I will ask you to stop with this personal attack, as it has nothign to do with the topic at hand.  

Fair enough , i appologize if i got to personal .

Don't worry about it.

[Barquiel]

Mallissin wrote...


Where's Bioware say it's Paragon or Renegade?

the final conversation with TIM

blue background if you destroy the base
red background if you keep it

[Dragoncloud]

tmp7704 wrote...
How do you know it? That base could hold absolutely huge amounts of data, yet you expect your onboard AI was able to find it all, override all locks and defenses, get access to everything and grab it complete in the short time it took you to blow the place up?
Yes, i'm sure Protheans/Reapers use just the right communication protocols to make it possible for a human vessel with inferior technology to achieve all that. Over a remote connection to boot. When even humans nowadays have better security protocols than that. There's this basic concept of the really important data not being part of any network, for one.

Actually taking your point about EDI not being able to mine enough data because of how advanced/intelligent the reapers are...
Considering Harbinger had direct access to the base, why would anything usefull aside from the equipment itself even be left? It'd be a damn stupid million year old bug if it didn't wipe any usefull data from the storage. Or even plant false data making you think you have what you need to defeat them to show up at the showdown with a gun that barely tickles them.
Once more showing that destroying the base is probably the safest thing.

Mallissin wrote...
I'm sorry, but I highly doubt that a neural net running for a billion years would make up a religion. Computers run off logic and there is no randomness to logic. Something is either rational and quantifiable, or irrational and an error. There are no "beliefs" in logic.
The fact the Heretic geth began their split when Sovereign arrived cannot be ignored. Whether you wish to believe their story that witnessing a superior machine made them want to worship it or that Sovereign's indoctrination made them think that way is irrelevant. In either case, the issue would not have happened if not corrupted by the Reapers and since it's your mission to stop the Reapers, it should also be your mission to save the Heretic Geth.
Leading us back to the Paragon option.

THe heretic geth split because sovereign offered them tech advancement, which they came to consensus about that they could use, whereas the other Geth came to consensus that they'd rather develop tech on their own to get the same end result. The whole 'religious' bit in me1 is probably more a thing Sovereign/Nazara asked them to do, or something they came to do on their own, Legion also does things it/they cannot really explain.
And i find brainwashing (especially when the subjects are aware that they have been brainwashed) a lot more evil then just giving them a quick mercifull ending, heck even Saren chose to die in the end. It'd be silly if going full paragon somehow made the endgame easier, paragon got the Rachni in me1, renegade probably gets the Geth in 2, or atleast an easier way to solve the quarian/geth conflict (because you blew millions of geth to hell).
The base itself as mentioned will probably play a small role tech/upgrade wise in me3 and in the post-ending of me3.
Also we already know what the reaper weakness is from the me2 bossfight: "Go for the optics.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I am not American and I see that the USA's role in the world has been more positive then negative. It was the USA that made sense of the world economy. It was the USA that helped Europe rise to its feet. It was the USA that made countries like Germany and Japan become one of the richest and most peaceful countries in the world despite their past. It was the USA that leads the worlds in scientific advancement, medical advancement and entertainement...etc etc
And I don't really care about "renegade" or "paragon". Call it whatever you want. I am still going to do it.

USA is mostly made up of European migrants so yeah... it all comes back to the Europeans actually being the best <<.
The whole paragon/renegade split is a bit weird though, one time a paragon can hit people, the other time its a renegade action, and only killing things is renegade somehow. At times i really miss the simple 'Dark Side' 'Light Side' options, much easier to figure out whats the right thing to pick.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dragoncloud wrote...

USA is mostly made up of European migrants so yeah... it all comes back to the Europeans actually being the best <<.

If you want to talk in those terms, then yea sure. They are the best, for now. It's not innate superiority however.
Also the USA has a slightly different history and culture than Europe. But again, yea sure if you want to talk in those terms.  

[pelhikano]

Dragoncloud wrote...

Considering Harbinger had direct access to the base, why would anything usefull aside from the equipment itself even be left? It'd be a damn stupid million year old bug if it didn't wipe any usefull data from the storage. Or even plant false data making you think you have what you need to defeat them to show up at the showdown with a gun that barely tickles them.

How do you know the data EDI extracted apparently so easily and in record time while the bug was still alive isn't a complete trap? Once the base is gone, you can't take a second look.

[Mallissin]

tariq071 wrote...
Not quite, check again about points...I got tons of Paragon(19 or 29 , not sure anymore) for telling TI Mthat i am blowing up the base.

You get 12 points for Paragon or Renegade depending on your choice, and then dialog points. So, if you say all Paragon stuff and chose Renegade, or vice versa, you can get 12 and 12.

Doesn't seem like that drastic a difference.

Barquiel wrote...
the final conversation with TIM

blue background if you destroy the base
red background if you keep it

Keep the base and it's the same sun as before. Destroy the base and the star turns all blue, like the sun that had been sapped in Haestrom (where you found Tali).

You sure the blue sun is a Paragon ending?

Edit note: Damnit, it is. The sun is completely red on full renegade ending.



I must have got the neutral ending.

Modifié par Mallissin, 05 février 2010 - 06:34 .

[Gill Kaiser]

tmp7704 wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

First thing: Why does every alien refer to someone's balls as their "quads"?

Supposedly it's running joke the devs picked up from penny-arcade forums -- Krogans have four testicles hence "quads". I don't think other aliens refer to their own package as such, usually when you hear it it's about the Krogans.

Yep. The only non-Krogan who uses the term is the Asari matriarch bartender, and she was partially brought up by her father, a Krogan.

[tmp7704]

Abriael_CG wrote...

Yeassure. So you go in a suicide mission to stop the collectors and acquire their base, only to give it to someone that will surely misuse it (since they misused basically everything they got their hands on so far),

Some of things Cerberus got their hands on:

Shepard
half of Shepard's team
bunch of upgrades for your team
Normandy
Joker
EDI

do you feel the Lazarus technology was misused by bringing you back from the dead? do you think resources and people they gave you were misused? Should EDI be shut down considering it's the actual frickin' AI, something that makes the geth like walk in park according to both the common belief and Citadel regulations?

The world isn't so clearly blue/red as the neatly positioned dialogue choices could make one believe.

only to have to go to another nearly suicide mission to destroy that same base, killing hundreds of humans in the process, of course AFTER they would have had time to cause all the damages they could already.

What a smart approach. Perfectly fitting the chaotic stupid attitude of renegade shepard indeed

It's risk i've decided to take. Don't preach and gloat when Paragon Shepard lets dangerous species run unchecked through the galaxy even knowing perfectly well they've already been indoctrinated to be tool for Reapers once. But i'm sure the blue dialogue option will be enough to save the rachni from another indoctrination, right? Or they'll just resist it this time, because... oh i don't know why they would but i want to believe. The good is never stupid.

The fact that it'll take time to decrypt the data doesn't mean she didn't actually take all the data that was there.

No, the fact that EDI is shown incapable to interact with Collectors systems over remote connection (even something as simple as door security system) can mean that. I see you chose to overlook that point. Why is it?

There's no thread opened with anyone trying to justify destroying the base. All the threads on the base are opened by people that kept the base and try to persuade themselves and others that it was a good choice. That kind of insecurity already tells a lot.

But there is lot of people in these threads who try to persuade everyone that only destroying the base was the right choice. If discussing it is sign of insecurity that tells a lot, then both parties appear guilty of it.

[Vaenier]

Barquiel wrote...

Vaenier wrote...


On topic: I kept the base because it is the paragon thing to do.

Well, Bioware and your squadmates disagree.

Its sarcasm about how my opinion of the right thing to do is different then the game creators opinion of the right thing to do.

[Missouri Tigers]

I understand how dangerous the Reapers are.  I feel like the Reapers WILL attack, and we need to be ready for them.  The Illusive Man gained my trust by being a brilliant leader and being able to use my squad and I to the best of our abilities to stop the Collectors and slow the Reapers.  I decided that the Illusive Man had done a lot and that we would need everything we can in the war against the Reapers.

I can also understand why people would destroy the place.  No matter what, Cerberus isn't exactly the nicest organization and the Illusive Man is pretty sketchy.  And will all the horrible things that happened at the base, I wouldn't blame anybody for wanting to just blow it up.

Why can't my teammates.  Everybody tells me that I should have destroyed and it's god damn annoying.  I'm proud of myself and my decision though because I know it will be worth it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Vaenier wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Vaenier wrote...


On topic: I kept the base because it is the paragon thing to do.

Well, Bioware and your squadmates disagree.

Its sarcasm about how my opinion of the right thing to do is different then the game creators opinion of the right thing to do.

Bioware doesn't say anythign about the "right" path. It gives you options and allows you to choose whatever you want. This isn't Star Wars where Bioware has to conform with the idiotic perception that Lucas has.

The reason I love Bioware is precisely because they don't try to impose their opinion (as if Bioware has a single opinion, I am pretty sure the writers have different opinions). Sure, the "renegade gets your face melted" is a load of crap. But other than that, it doesn't impose on you a "right" or "wrong" way.

[pelhikano]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Bioware doesn't say anythign about the "right" path. It gives you options and allows you to choose whatever you want. This isn't Star Wars where Bioware has to conform with the idiotic perception that Lucas has.

The reason I love Bioware is precisely because they don't try to impose their opinion (as if Bioware has a single opinion, I am pretty sure the writers have different opinions). Sure, the "renegade gets your face melted" is a load of crap. But other than that, it doesn't impose on you a "right" or "wrong" way.

Absolutely. I would even go so far as to say that neither of the choices are "right" because we do not know what the writers have planned. The fact that we do get a choice tells me that neither of them means you can not "win" in ME3 (unless the writers really do want to punish people for choosing Renegade, which I doubt). In one case your savegame in ME3 might force you find vital information on Reapers elsewhere than the destroyed station, or if you kept the station you might have the vital info already but now TIM  has gone rogue somehow and you need to thwart him first. Either case is a perfectly valid turn of events and we simply do not know yet which one of them is ultimately the worse one.

[Gambit One]

What I found more irritating, is that after choosing to leave Cerberus (aka telling off TIM). Anderson, or anyone else in the universe had nothing to say to me.



Really? not even an "atta boy"?

[tmp7704]

Dragoncloud wrote...

Considering Harbinger had direct access to the base, why would anything usefull aside from the equipment itself even be left?

Since we don't actually know much about the way Reapers operate, it's pretty much impossible to know it for sure one way or the other. That's why i'd prefer to keep it and check rather than blow it up on principle.

If i had to make a guess, Harbinger had direct access to Collector general through the implants and then to any single individual drone, but it still makes sense to have at least some relevant data stored in the base so the other drones can access it directly, without the need for the Reaper to personally guide every single one of them all the time.
 

It'd be a damn stupid million year old bug if it didn't wipe any usefull data from the storage. Or even plant false data making you think you have what you need to defeat them to show up at the showdown with a gun that barely tickles them.
Once more showing that destroying the base is probably the safest thing.

If you want to look at it this way, then it's also damn stupid for the million year old bug to allow you to blow up the base like that and without much of opposition. So if you're going to credit them with this sort of intelligence and long-term planning, what makes you believe they didn't actually allow you to destroy the base, and by doing that you weren't playing into their hands in some way?

I mean heck, if Shepard can set up explosion which wipes out all life in the base while leaving the equipment intact, why didn't Harbinger do that himself to purge the threat of your squad from the station? He'd just lose some drones and one unfinished Reaper compared to losing the same *and* the station.

[Promethean 47]

Who the hell ever said being a renegade was popular?

[Blandi3737]

Is it not possible that the Reapers were arrogant enough to think that their factory was safe enough? Couldn't the IFF virus been created after Harbinger knew that Shepard was looking for the Collector base. Seeing as the Reaper wasn't dead, whose to say that the Collectors or even the Reapers didn't intentionally tamper with it. I mean if that Reaper got shot before the Protheans than there is no way it could send a signal to the Collectors.... seeing as they are Prothean...

Edit: meaning that the Collector base is relatively unprotected by traps or indoctrination

Modifié par Blandi3737, 04 février 2010 - 10:36 .

[senojones]

I'm sorry, but I highly doubt that a neural net running for a billion years would make up a religion. Computers run off logic and there is no randomness to logic.

Then why is Legion wearing a piece of Shepard's armor? The logical answer would of been for a quick repair, but when asked he had no answer.



Geth have always been evolving, no one knows how capable they are.

[tariq071]

Mallissin wrote...

tariq071 wrote...
Not quite, check again about points...I got tons of Paragon(19 or 29 , not sure anymore) for telling TI Mthat i am blowing up the base.

You get 12 points for Paragon or Renegade depending on your choice, and then dialog points. So, if you say all Paragon stuff and chose Renegade, or vice versa, you can get 12 and 12.

Doesn't seem like that drastic a difference.

Barquiel wrote...
the final conversation with TIM

blue background if you destroy the base
red background if you keep it

Keep the base and it's the same sun as before. Destroy the base and the star turns all blue, like the sun that had been sapped in Haestrom (where you found Tali).

You sure the blue sun is a Paragon ending?

I didn't say that you don't get points for keeeping it. But you get Paragon  for destroying it and Renegade for keeping it. And sun (or whatever is behind TIM) is blue if you blow it up and orange if you don't.

As for which one is correct path... both are..depending of your play.Again, i do belive that it will only result in some additional personal weapon or armor if you kept it and something else if you didn't.anything more than that would require 2 games or make unbalanced paths.

Anyone expecting some sort of huge benefit from keeping it or blowing it up is most likely be dissapointed.

You can find both endings on youtube if you need to confirm it for yourself.

Modifié par tariq071, 04 février 2010 - 11:00 .

[tmp7704]

senojones wrote...

Then why is Legion wearing a piece of Shepard's armor?

" ... There was a hole."

 Legion, pity he died to save my team