Aller au contenu

Photo

Flying from dark space? And other Reaper thoughts and questions. (kinda long)


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
96 réponses à ce sujet

#1
fogofeternity

fogofeternity
  • Members
  • 236 messages
Seems that a lot of people are assuming that the final cut scene shows the Reapers looking to fly to the Milky Way. This seems somewhat unlikely given the length of time and resources required to achieve this, and the fact that both real life physics and what's been explained of the ME universe would seem to suggest that this is impossible.

I'm not sure the cut scene wasn't simply to demonstrate the extent of the Reaper fleet. Particularly when you consider it's logical to assume that each of those Reaper ships could easily be the size of Sovereign, which individually took the combined efforts of the Citadel fleet to take down. (I know that Sovereign was accompanied by smaller vessels in ME1, I tended to think those were Geth ships developed to mirror Sovereign in appearance, rather than true Reapers).

Some thoughts;
  • Sovereign was a vanguard. A Reaper who didn't return to dark space with the rest. Therefore it was possible for Sovereign to act in known galactic space when it awoke.
  • The rest of the Reapers require activation of the Citadel's mass effect relay to enable their return from dark space.
  • The Reapers (potentially) need the organic matter from these developed civilizations in order to develop and to create new Reapers.
It also seems clear that while physically restricted to dark space, it is possible for Reaper consciousness to extend beyond that (though it is possible that Harbinger is a special case).

That provides an explanation for the construction of the Human-Reaper. The Collector homebase is still connected to the known galaxy, and the Reapers are still trapped in dark space. They still require the activation of the Citadel mass relay to allow their return. Given the destruction of Sovereign, they obviously need another Reaper that can access the known galaxy, activate the Citadel and allow their return as Sovereign had intended to do.

Sovereign was destroyed in large part due to the actions of the human race. Presumably Sovereign transmitted data on Shepard and the humans back to the rest of the Reapers. Hence why the Collectors were directed to start harvesting humans, rather than other species, both due to their wider vulnerability (just recently colonizing new worlds in the Terminus systems), and also because of the "wild card" aspect of their influence on galactic civilization. They were also directed to kill Shepard.

As the Collectors have failed, and the in-construction Human-Reaper is destroyed, what next for the Reapers?

I can guess that they are on a reasonably lengthy timescale. Sovereign hung out for 50,000 years waiting for the best time to act against galactic civilization. The two years they spent working on construction of the Human-Reaper seems minimal in that context. So clearly potential for them to spend another couple of years at least in addressing another option, unless they've been provoked into anger or reckless action.

But how do they get back to real space from dark space? If they just fly there then it seems a bit of a fudge, because it undermines most of their backstory. As well as being effectively impossible based on what has been explained of the ME universe.

Suggestion seems to be that the Collectors were their only long standing organic link (and the Omega 4 relay the only unknown mass relay), which they've now lost. That seems to preclude the idea of them building another reaper (which would be a bit repetitive in story terms anyway).

They could work at manipulating another race into aiding them. This was clearly presaged with Shepard's message from the Rachni Queen in ME2, explaining how the Rachni were manipulated into war by the Reapers. I couldn't work out *why* the Reapers would do this, as there seemed to be no particular benefit to them. I suppose one option might be that the Reapers themselves want to discourage the activation of dormant mass relays (why was banned after the Rachni wars), because they have another non-Citadel option of returning to normal space in a more convoluted way. They might also be looking for an opportunity of using a mass relay that has moved - as the Mu Relay did when it was caught in a supernova.

I suppose they could also try and provoke a careless civilization into building a new mass relay. It's something the Protheans managed in miniature. Particularly an inquisitive and reckless race like...humans. Even more possible when you consider a) the reliance on existing mass relays can be seen as one of the sources of the "geth" attack that was Sovereign and B) the council and the Alliance largely either hide or refuse to believe in the Reapers.

Anyway, that's my random thoughts on the Reapers and what's next...
 

#2
Gill Kaiser

Gill Kaiser
  • Members
  • 6 061 messages
Geth. Dying sun. Dark Energy. Wormholes.

Modifié par Gill Kaiser, 03 février 2010 - 08:16 .


#3
GnusmasTHX

GnusmasTHX
  • Members
  • 5 963 messages
They use super-advanced Reaper drives and the game takes place 20 years after ME2.



The only character that couldn't return is Mordin. Humans live till they're like 120-130.



And then you got awesome galactic invasion style metamap gameplay. Like the Vong in Star Wars.

#4
DingoEffect

DingoEffect
  • Members
  • 133 messages
I don't see why the Reapers can't start flying into the galaxy. Yes it does require a lot of fuel and power but this is the Reapers we are talking about. They know more than we or any other species does. Besides this is a slow way of taking the galaxy over again, giving everyone a chance to fight back.

#5
Guest_Kordaris_*

Guest_Kordaris_*
  • Guests
The Reapers are a big threat, but can be defeated. The Geth in one system alone have a fleet 5000-10.000 ship strong. Unlike previous invasions where Reapers crippled government of the galaxy, this time this won't happen. Even if Council now denies the Reaper threat, they are organisations that are aware of their existance STG, Cerberus, possibly others as well. So the Reaper invasion will be much more difficult for them.

I think the major point of ME3 will be allying races together, especially the Geth.

#6
Ataru13

Ataru13
  • Members
  • 58 messages

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They use super-advanced Reaper drives and the game takes place 20 years after ME2.

The only character that couldn't return is Mordin. Humans live till they're like 120-130.

And then you got awesome galactic invasion style metamap gameplay. Like the Vong in Star Wars.


Only 20? Why not make it 60... Then we can play as Old Shepard... You can have his back go out randomly just by taking cover, and you have to read porn mags and smoke cigarettes to keep his psyche bar up. It'll be awesome. :whistle:

#7
Guest_SwobyJ_*

Guest_SwobyJ_*
  • Guests
ME2 preps for ME3. Reapers can come to Milky Way galaxy, but they loses ALL of the major advantages in the time between the Ilos-Citadel hack, and Shepard's attack on the Collector Base. They gotta huff it, with factions now aware of them, the use of Mass Relays still existing, and a ready to fight Shepard lol.



Imagine Lord of the Rings - by the Return of the King, Mordor was still hugely strong, but the good side at least had a situation where they stood some sort of chance and to have some 'last stand'. The actual victory may be outside of the battle itself though, just like in ME1, but with the EPIC muliplied by thousands :P

#8
Brutalise

Brutalise
  • Members
  • 49 messages

fogofeternity wrote...

But how do they get back to real space from dark space? If they just fly there then it seems a bit of a fudge, because it undermines most of their backstory. As well as being effectively impossible based on what has been explained of the ME universe


Maybe they could've choosen to just fly from dark space to real space from the start. But after Shepard beat sovereign, then beating the hell out of the Collectors and their giant terminator reaper filled with human slushies, could be possible they are just truely pissed off and now with all other (known) options out of the way, maybe flying there is the only way to start the mass genocide. but in doing so maybe the reapers are left weakend from such a LONG trip there, having to use alot of their resources/energy to do so, meaning they most likely wound't want to take this opition in the first place. With them possibly just flying all the way out there, maybe in their weakend state, it'll give organic life a fighting chance againts the reaper armies. Just a thought I had, doesn't sound all that solid. But there is one explanation. Posted Image

#9
GnusmasTHX

GnusmasTHX
  • Members
  • 5 963 messages

Ataru13 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They use super-advanced Reaper drives and the game takes place 20 years after ME2.

The only character that couldn't return is Mordin. Humans live till they're like 120-130.

And then you got awesome galactic invasion style metamap gameplay. Like the Vong in Star Wars.


Only 20? Why not make it 60... Then we can play as Old Shepard... You can have his back go out randomly just by taking cover, and you have to read porn mags and smoke cigarettes to keep his psyche bar up. It'll be awesome. :whistle:


Old Snake is in his 40's chronologically, 20 year gap would make Shepard in his 50's... And he'd STILL be younger looking than Snake. Plus a 90 year old Shepard would just be like playing a more badass Pressly or Anderson. Both already badass in their own right.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 03 février 2010 - 08:36 .


#10
fogofeternity

fogofeternity
  • Members
  • 236 messages

DingoEffect wrote...

I don't see why the Reapers can't start flying into the galaxy. Yes it does require a lot of fuel and power but this is the Reapers we are talking about. They know more than we or any other species does. Besides this is a slow way of taking the galaxy over again, giving everyone a chance to fight back.


In game codex seems to suggest that FTL technology allows for travel of around 12 light years per day, using an element zero fuelled mass effect drive.

If "dark space" was about the same distance away as the closest galaxy to the milky way, it'd be 2.5 million light years away. If the Reapers travelled five times faster than the best tech in Citadel space, they'd manage 60 light years a day. Which would take them 114 years. 

In general though, if they merely fly back then it seems a bit pointless to have gone through everything else (certainly everything after the destruction of Sovereign). And if they are capable of flying back, then seems more logical that they'd fly back an advance party rather than their entire fleet.

Sovereign was knocking around the galaxy for a good while before anyone noticed. And was perfectly able to use existing mass effect relays. It popped out at the Citadel's mass effect relay and nearly took out the whole fleet and half the Citadel.

Given the Citadel's mass effect relay still works, why not send back, say, ten ships. They fly to the nearest mass effect relay, jump to the Citadel, and manually override the controls to open the mass relay as Sovereign tried to do?

#11
DingoEffect

DingoEffect
  • Members
  • 133 messages
Maybe they want to make sure they get it done this time. Maybe, just maybe they were controlling the Collectors while traveling? Just a theory though.

#12
Ataru13

Ataru13
  • Members
  • 58 messages

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Ataru13 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They use super-advanced Reaper drives and the game takes place 20 years after ME2.

The only character that couldn't return is Mordin. Humans live till they're like 120-130.

And then you got awesome galactic invasion style metamap gameplay. Like the Vong in Star Wars.


Only 20? Why not make it 60... Then we can play as Old Shepard... You can have his back go out randomly just by taking cover, and you have to read porn mags and smoke cigarettes to keep his psyche bar up. It'll be awesome. :whistle:


Old Snake is in his 40's chronologically, 20 year gap would make Shepard in his 50's... And he'd STILL be younger looking than Snake. Plus a 90 year old Shepard would just be like playing a more badass Pressly or Anderson. Both already badass in their own right.


Which is why I instead suggested a gap of 60 years...

#13
GnusmasTHX

GnusmasTHX
  • Members
  • 5 963 messages
Reapers are more advanced. It'd take longer, but they'd get there.



Time isn't an issue for immortal beings of massacre. However time will give the good races and advantage by being able to advance technology wise.

#14
GnusmasTHX

GnusmasTHX
  • Members
  • 5 963 messages

Ataru13 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Ataru13 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They use super-advanced Reaper drives and the game takes place 20 years after ME2.

The only character that couldn't return is Mordin. Humans live till they're like 120-130.

And then you got awesome galactic invasion style metamap gameplay. Like the Vong in Star Wars.


Only 20? Why not make it 60... Then we can play as Old Shepard... You can have his back go out randomly just by taking cover, and you have to read porn mags and smoke cigarettes to keep his psyche bar up. It'll be awesome. :whistle:


Old Snake is in his 40's chronologically, 20 year gap would make Shepard in his 50's... And he'd STILL be younger looking than Snake. Plus a 90 year old Shepard would just be like playing a more badass Pressly or Anderson. Both already badass in their own right.


Which is why I instead suggested a gap of 60 years...


But neither seem the type to give into back aches and porn urges...

#15
fogofeternity

fogofeternity
  • Members
  • 236 messages

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Reapers are more advanced. It'd take longer, but they'd get there.

Time isn't an issue for immortal beings of massacre. However time will give the good races and advantage by being able to advance technology wise.


Which I suppose theoretically allows for a renewal of certain party members and the dropping of others. Reapers take, say, fifty years to get there. Shepard dumped into stasis. Less of an issue for the Asari or Krogan characters. Problem for Turians, Salarians and (potentially) Quarians.

#16
Gill Kaiser

Gill Kaiser
  • Members
  • 6 061 messages
The Reapers don't want to give the civilisations of the galaxy centuries to prepare. They have a plan C, and the foreshadowing indicates it's something to do with dark energy.

#17
Zedereka

Zedereka
  • Members
  • 18 messages
Wouldn't surprise me that IF the Reapers ended up flying in from Darkspace (we don't know how far out they were also) That they lost a lot of resources and possibly had a few Reapers die along the way because it takes sooo freaking long to get here.



Chance of winning against them increase! Unless they have a backup mass effect relay somewhere out there.

#18
Ataru13

Ataru13
  • Members
  • 58 messages

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Ataru13 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Ataru13 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They use super-advanced Reaper drives and the game takes place 20 years after ME2.

The only character that couldn't return is Mordin. Humans live till they're like 120-130.

And then you got awesome galactic invasion style metamap gameplay. Like the Vong in Star Wars.


Only 20? Why not make it 60... Then we can play as Old Shepard... You can have his back go out randomly just by taking cover, and you have to read porn mags and smoke cigarettes to keep his psyche bar up. It'll be awesome. :whistle:


Old Snake is in his 40's chronologically, 20 year gap would make Shepard in his 50's... And he'd STILL be younger looking than Snake. Plus a 90 year old Shepard would just be like playing a more badass Pressly or Anderson. Both already badass in their own right.


Which is why I instead suggested a gap of 60 years...


But neither seem the type to give into back aches and porn urges...



My Shepard would totally be  a chain smoking porn addict if given the option. The closest I could get so far is buying that alien fetish mag. :(

#19
Homebound

Homebound
  • Members
  • 11 891 messages
If Sovereign was a Reaper Vanguard, does that mean there is a Reaper Adept? Or Reaper soldier? Reaper Sentinel? And a Reaper infiltrator?

#20
DingoEffect

DingoEffect
  • Members
  • 133 messages
For all we know they might have been on the move for centuries. Nothing tells us they have been waiting the dark space still. Does it?

#21
fogofeternity

fogofeternity
  • Members
  • 236 messages

Zedereka wrote...

Wouldn't surprise me that IF the Reapers ended up flying in from Darkspace (we don't know how far out they were also) That they lost a lot of resources and possibly had a few Reapers die along the way because it takes sooo freaking long to get here.

Chance of winning against them increase! Unless they have a backup mass effect relay somewhere out there.


I suppose it's possible, and from a dramatic point of view kinda makes sense for the epic last chapter to be a huge war. But war doesn't work that well from an RPG perspective.

Thinking about it, I suppose we might still be underestimating the importance of Shepard as a person. Bioware have a pretty decent record of characters with hugely significant destinies that come to light as the story progresses, so Shepard might be more than simply a symbol of humanity, and have some much deeper value to the galaxy as a whole.

DingoEffect wrote...

For all we know they might have been on the move for centuries. Nothing tells us they have been waiting the dark space still. Does it?


That they fully expected to merely jump straight back to the Citadel would suggest they had no reason to be on the move. In fact, they presumably couldn't have been on the move until at least 2 years ago, as they'd have to stay close to the mass effect relay that was paired with the Citadel.

#22
Tuttotus

Tuttotus
  • Members
  • 64 messages
I don’t think the Reapers will invade in ME3. I think the one Reaper at the end of the suicide mission will do something (the one the Collector released). The only reason I say the Reaper fleet will not invade is because ME3 will be the end of Shepard’s story, not the Reapers. And if the Reapers are destroyed in ME3. Who or What is going to be the antagonist in the new series?

#23
Homebound

Homebound
  • Members
  • 11 891 messages

Tuttotus wrote...

I don’t think the Reapers will invade in ME3. I think the one Reaper at the end of the suicide mission will do something (the one the Collector released). The only reason I say the Reaper fleet will not invade is because ME3 will be the end of Shepard’s story, not the Reapers. And if the Reapers are destroyed in ME3. Who or What is going to be the antagonist in the new series?


Ace smeer-job Reporter Al-Jihani

#24
DingoEffect

DingoEffect
  • Members
  • 133 messages
What I'm saying is maybe one of them is a Mass Relay? Soverign has been trying for a long time to turn that Citadel on and has failed at it. Seren wasn't the first time the Reapers tried to signal or turn the Citadel on for jump. If they have a Reaper that is part Mass Relay I don't see why they can't jump while traveling.

#25
FunkyFreshKilla

FunkyFreshKilla
  • Members
  • 52 messages

Gill Kaiser wrote...

The Reapers don't want to give the civilisations of the galaxy centuries to prepare. They have a plan C, and the foreshadowing indicates it's something to do with dark energy.


I'm on board with ya and got the exact same impression.