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[fogofeternity]

dynas2001 wrote...

how do we know 100% all relays have been uncovered? The fact that we found another prometian beacon shows us that there is still lots to discover! I'd say we could find many more mass relays.

Certainly I think it's clear that all mass relays aren't discovered, according to the codex. It's assumed that the Reapers do know all the mass relay locations though.

[Annihilator27]

XenogearsOwnsAll wrote...

fogofeternity wrote...

Sabre120 wrote...

I understand that, but you make it seem as though darkspace is a completely different realm of existence which is impossible to escape without the use of a mass relay, which is untrue

No, but the clear suggestion throughout both ME1 and ME2 is that the Reapers have no practical method of travelling from dark space to the Milky Way without the use of the Citadel mass relay. That makes ME1 clearly logical in that the point of the game is to block off the Citadel to them.

ME2 then covers some kind of attempt by the Reapers to develop an alternative tactic to allow them to get back to the Milky Way and Citadel space.

If it then proceeds to "well, they couldn't work anything out, so they just flew back" then it undermines all the efforts of ME1 and ME2 storylines.

I definitely agree that it undermines all the efforts of the ME1/2 storylines, but I noticed something troubling when rewatching the ending cutscene  It shows the Reaper armada "emerging" into the light, starting with Harbinger in the front, and working towards the back.  It seems to show them coming out of dark space.

Edit:  I mean that it might symbolize them emerging from dark space...I know that dark space actually refers to a place that is empty of stars, so they weren't actually emerging from dark space.  If they were doing that they'd be in the galaxy already.

Except they are not in the milky way, They are outside of it clearly. So they dubbed it dark space. They are still coming from that term, Its just darker where they are at.

[Vaenier]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Geth. Dying sun. Dark Energy. Wormholes.

You sir, ara a GENIOUS. The Reapers are going to create a wormhole to darkspace using the geth controlled star from Tali's mission. The Heretic Geth were still under Reaper control at that time, and would probably be constructing a backup plan to get Reapers to the galaxy.

[Annihilator27]

Vaenier wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Geth. Dying sun. Dark Energy. Wormholes.

You sir, ara a GENIOUS. The Reapers are going to create a wormhole to darkspace using the geth controlled star from Tali's mission. The Heretic Geth were still under Reaper control at that time, and would probably be constructing a backup plan to get Reapers to the galaxy.

Lmao, wtf the reapers are perfect not insane. Would be cool to see on the other hand.

[Wolverfrog]

Why can't they just head to our Galaxy through standard travel through dark space? Sure, it could take years, but maybe that's what they're doing?

[ScotGaymer]

The impression I got from both games is that the Reapers actually made their first attempt to return generations ago around the 50k anniversary of the destruction of the prothean civilization. Possibly right before the Rachni Wars.



Soveriegn sent the signal to the Citadel to activate but the Keepers had evolved to no longer accept Reaper signals but only accept signals from the Citadel itself. So it began its plan to get to the Citadel.

He went to his Collector servants at some point and alerted them to the problem - they seem to be aware of sovereigns plans and failure - and then began working on a way to take the citadel. The solution was the indoctrination of the majority of the Rachni and the unleashing of their vast armada on the galaxy.

The plan failed when the Krogan defeated the Rachni. So he probably went back into hiding given that he had plenty of time left to formulate a new plan. He possibly had a hand in the Krogan Rebellions which also failed with the emergence of the Turians. Perhaps he also had a hand in the Krogan's sterlisation.



He of course came across the Geth - we learn this from Legion - and caused the Geth schism to gain control over the heretics which I believe made up around 5% of the total Geth population. The heretics moved out into the Terminus Systems and working with sovereign began building up forces. I think Saren at some point found out about it and being the headstrong Turian that he is tried to stop Sovereign/the Heretic Geth on his own.

He obviously found himself over his head and either from fear or from a degree of indoctrination decided to submit to the Reaper. By the time of ME1 it was obvious that he had both activated and alerted the Collectors to the problem and that he was running out of time to bring the Reapers back to real space.



After all there is nothing in the Void of Dark Space and even with hibernating they would eventually need to wake up to "feed" and to "breed" and if they failed to they would probably all "die" even an inorganic or semi organic species like the Reapers.

Sovereign seemed quite urgent about facilitating his bretherns return to the galaxy. But he had to have known there was a possibility of his plan failing so he likely had some contingencies in place with his allies. The Collectors, the Heretics, perhaps others we havent heard of yet.



The collectors it is clear were tasked with creating a new reaper to facilitate the return of the greater repear fleet; that is what we are tasked with stopping in ME2 though we dont figure this out until very very late in the game (near the very end in fact).

The rogue Geth also appear to have been tasked with -something- what is subject for debate at this time but I think it possible that as someone suggested they are using the Haestrom star to create some sort of worm hole or perhaps a singularity to power a new giant mass effect relay to bring the reapers back into the galaxy.



Thats what i thought anyway.

[MercenaryNo]

1. Its in the future



2. This is a super advanced race of machines that eradicate all living life. They built the citadel and mass relays.. Therefore obviously shouldn't have a hard time getting to the milkyway within the time provided.



3. .......Why does it matter?

[Deltateam Elcor]

What i dont get is the citadel is rotational not eezo gravity, making it much much older than even the relays...but ofcourse it could just be they made it that way but still.

[Abirn]

DarthCaine wrote...

Harbinger: "We will find another way"

meaning they can't get out of dark space without someone activating the citadel

There is no magical barrier, all they have to do is fly.

[soren145]

Maybe the game will pick up with a new main character and the galaxy will have been affected by Shepards actions in ME1 and ME2 but a long time in the future, if the reapers take that huge amount of time to get there. Not likely but it could happen.

[JensenBakura]

DingoEffect wrote...

I don't see why the Reapers can't start flying into the galaxy. Yes it does require a lot of fuel and power.

No it doesn't...it's space.  You accelerate to the speed you want and then shut everything down until you get close enough, then you decelerate.  Travelling through a vacuum doesn't slow you down.

[WoodWizzard87]

Mass Effect is all about Sheppard, I don't want to play someone else damnit!!!!

[BLACKOUT228]

What I don't understand, is why does everyone think dark space is SOOO far away. All it is, is the space between/outside of galaxies. They could be sitting just outside the galaxy enough so as to never be discovered, but close enough where they could get back with the energy stores they have. They wouldn't go out to far where if their plans failed they couldn't get back. That would be stupid, especially for a race of all powerful beings like the reapers.

[FunkyFreshKilla]

JensenBakura wrote...

No it doesn't...it's space.  You accelerate to the speed you want and then shut everything down until you get close enough, then you decelerate.  Travelling through a vacuum doesn't slow you down.

Maybe this doesn't apply with FTL. Seeing as FTL is actually impossible, anything goes. Possibly that is the explanation of needing fuel going between systems, but not when flying within them.  You let off the gas and slow you go. (Standard sub-light speed that is) If the Reapers don't use their fuel it'll be 50,000 years before they show up. By the time they get here, they've died of starvation and just go floating by! Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[FunkyFreshKilla]

BLACKOUT228 wrote...

What I don't understand, is why does everyone think dark space is SOOO far away. All it is, is the space between/outside of galaxies. They could be sitting just outside the galaxy enough so as to never be discovered, but close enough where they could get back with the energy stores they have. They wouldn't go out to far where if their plans failed they couldn't get back. That would be stupid, especially for a race of all powerful beings like the reapers.

Seeing the ending cimatic of them shows a relative position. From their standpoint the Milky Way was completely visible, if that was infact our galaxy. In order to see the entire galaxy like that you'd have to be pretty far away from the outskirts.

Also, that's the problem with thinking you're all powerful and everything else is beneth you. You start to be complacent and make mistakes.

[Majpain007]

Just_mike wrote...

If Sovereign was a Reaper Vanguard, does that mean there is a Reaper Adept? Or Reaper soldier? Reaper Sentinel? And a Reaper infiltrator?

Reaper Squadmate for ME3

[fogofeternity]

BLACKOUT228 wrote...

What I don't understand, is why does everyone think dark space is SOOO far away. All it is, is the space between/outside of galaxies. They could be sitting just outside the galaxy enough so as to never be discovered, but close enough where they could get back with the energy stores they have. They wouldn't go out to far where if their plans failed they couldn't get back. That would be stupid, especially for a race of all powerful beings like the reapers.

But then what's the point of all the convoluted plans in the first place. If they were so close then all they need to do is fly to the nearest mass relay, jump to the Citadel, and it's as effective as their super surprise attack via the Citadel mass relay.

[Balek-Vriege]

I don't think the Reapers really have a plan at the moment since it seems Shepard destroyed both their Plan A and their Plan B. Remember what the Collector Harbinger/Reaper says: "We will find another way." So I doubt they're certain what their Plan C is but it's obvious they're going to try traveling back regardless.



It went from the perfect plan of taking over the galaxy through the perfect technological trap, to trying to reactivate the trap with a human reaper and the destruction of humanity's viability (via Collectors) to we got to fly back asap or find another means to get back faster. If the Citadel plan worked I bet the Reapers would have taken over the galaxy within weeks if not days. The Collector plan might have been a bit more dicey since the Council would have reacted once millions of Humans started to disappear instead of thousands. Now the Reapers are caught between a rock and a hard place. I bet Sovereign was getting desperate in ME1 because his fellow Reapers needed to refuel soon or die. Now they're probably on a do or die mission of wiping out the galaxy.



It would be interesting in ME3 if they do travel back by FTL drive only to loose most of their fleet to "death" during transit.

[cronshaw8]

Perhaps something is going on that has yet to be explained. Yes the reapers are on the move. But they are not flying the entire way into the Milky Way, they are flying to where they need to be when the Citadel Relay is opened, or some other not yet disclosed relay.

[Balek-Vriege]

cronshaw8 wrote...

Perhaps something is going on that has yet to be explained. Yes the reapers are on the move. But they are not flying the entire way into the Milky Way, they are flying to where they need to be when the Citadel Relay is opened, or some other not yet disclosed relay.

I personally think it has something to do with Haestrom's star.  Maybe a natural mass relay they have computed would open a wormhole near their Dark Space location or something.

[cronshaw8]

cronshaw8 wrote...

Perhaps something is going on that has yet to be explained. Yes the reapers are on the move. But they are not flying the entire way into the Milky Way, they are flying to where they need to be when the Citadel Relay is opened, or some other not yet disclosed relay.

 I guess to explain a little further. The reapers have had numerous contingencies: Geth, Saren, Collecters, Rachni, Keepers. I think it would be fair to assume they have another way to get to the milky way. Perhaps it is their last and this is why they have finally all reactivated. They are on the way to put that contingency into place.

[Annihilator27]

The repears are on cruise control, Im sure the lfeet will get there in no "time" Judging from the ending that dont seem that "far" out.