90 réponses à ce sujet

[Feraele]

Stompi wrote...

I agree that fewer companions could hurt the replay value. But on the other hand, Awakening will no where be as long as the main game. Perhaps it is better to have 5 companions, who are really good developed, than 10 companions you don't really care about  when you're finsished.

Well..I found we had too many companions, always a decision on which to take where to get them "happy with me" and not leave.  I am still playing (tenth and eleventh run-throughs) and this is still an issue.

My wish would be for even the ability to add ONE more to the adventuring party, that would eliminate the choice conundrum.    I would LOVE to take Dog along, but because I have so many companions that I am trying to keep happy, he usually ends up languishing in the camp, because he already loves me and he seems to be the least useful of all the companions.

The two I struggle with are Ohgren and Zevran.    They come along late in the story (the way I play)  as I usually do the Circle Tower before Orzammar and Redcliffe.   (I find it works better that way for me.  Then I can access lyrium powder for potions etc. )

So perhaps for me, it will be a relief not to have to coddle or babysit so many companions and keep them happy and not deserting me ..or attacking me lol.

Yes I am the type to try to keep everyone happy as best as I can.    Sometimes I kill Zevran off because,  I just don't feel like going through all that again.   lol

[tmelange]

Sandtigress wrote...

Who else was in the group of 10 though?  Wynne - too old.  Dog - um, no.  Shale - kind of anatomically impossible  Sten - He tells you what the quinari act is like.  That doesn't sound like a pleasurable romance.  Oghren - an arguable romance, except for the quest that you get him through.

There's no reason why you wouldn't be able to romance the majority of a party of 5, and that's even saying that that is vitally important to an expansion.  Most of my characters are going to be faithful to the romance they've already established - of the ones I have or have planned, I see two, maybe three at this point who would be open to a new romance.

So for me, a romanceable character is not as vital as a well-fleshed out party, and I think that's just as likely with a party of six as it is with ten.

Who else was romanceable? Each gender had three choices; Morrigan, Leliana and Zevran, or Alistair, Zevran and Leiliana. I'm not sure why you're refering to the non-romanceable characters like Wynn and Dog. My point was that if you have a group of 5, you'll likely have at most 2 romanceable characters per gender, and only one if the developers are feeling particularly cost conscious. This has been demnonstrated in BW's past games, e.g. ME1, JE, KoTOR etc.

As far as whether romanceable characters are important: it was just an example of the types of things you sacrifice as the party gets smaller. Romance is not vital except to the extent that it makes the game fun, and that it often comprises the bulk of the depth of characters, in many instances. Of course, I'm not advocating that anything be "sacrificed" at all. BW has already demonstrated in DAO that they can do large parties that are wonderfully interactive and fleshed out, with multiple romances and options for lots of replayability. There is really no reason to give them a pass, as if these things have somehow become mutually exclusive in the course of a few months.

If the issue is that Awakenings has limited expansion level resources, that's one thing; but the thing will be $40, so it might not be prudient from a consumer standpoint to lower the bar unnecessarily. Enabling a drastic departure from the expectations set in DAO will only bring forum misery to us all.

Modifié par tmelange, 06 février 2010 - 07:07 .

[Feraele]

If the issue is that Awakenings has limited expansion level resources, that's one thing; but the thing will be $40, so it might not be prudient from a consumer standpoint to lower the bar unnecessarily. Enabling a drastic departure from the expectations set in DAO will only bring forum misery to us all.



----END QUOTE



And we don't want no more steenking forum misery...lol seen too much already in the past few months.



And..just want to state again, our expectations are high, because its Bioware's fault...they set the bar high and we expect them to keep it that way.

Managing expectations on the other hand...by Bioware and their gamers, might be a good thing just for future.



Regular communications that explode conspiracy theories and unrealistic expectations, might help in the future. Sometimes these forums seem like a pot boiling over, and in the past its happened with almost total silence from the powers that be.



An informative post, that doesn't give away spoilers..should help, as people will link to that to inform other forum goers ..whats up.

[tmelange]

Wishpig wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

Good. Less is always more.

Really I always thought less is less. Silly me.

More often than not. While it's all well and good to claim that a decrease in party number allows the devs the ability to "go deeper" with the interaction, I seriously doubt that we will find a marked difference when we sit down to play. We already have numerous examples of what has been done with a party of 5 or 6, and it certainly hasn't been anything approaching what was just done in DAO. If Awakenings made interaction any deeper than what was presented in DAO, the party members might never shut up.

To me, this "5 is better than 10" sounds like a convenient way to lower consumer expections. We're going to get half but somehow we're to believe that half is so much MORE. Likely, it'll just be half. lol

This is not to say that I need a 10 person party as opposed to a 5 person party in Awakenings. I'm sure I'll enjoy Awakenings regardless. I just don't like acting as if the devs can't do something that they've already proven adept at doing, and as the expansion is almost the price of a full game, my expectations remain high. I'm not handing out free passes.

[errant_knight]

I think it's a good number. I actually thought that I was dragging quite a crowd around with me by the end of Origins. I always had Alistair in the party and either Wynne or Morrigan, depending on the task. That left one slot for swapping out the others. Zevran really got the short end of the stick, although I know some find him more playable than I do. Having so many actually made it a little too easy to leave people out on missions that would ****** them off.  Anyhoo, I'm good with the five or six that they seem to plan.

[Walina]

I wonder if those new companions will try to force their way to pc to seduce him or her if pc doesn't broke up with his/her previous lover.

[philippe willaume]

Feraele wrote...

Stompi wrote...

I agree that fewer companions could hurt the replay value. But on the other hand, Awakening will no where be as long as the main game. Perhaps it is better to have 5 companions, who are really good developed, than 10 companions you don't really care about  when you're finsished.

Well..I found we had too many companions, always a decision on which to take where to get them "happy with me" and not leave.  I am still playing (tenth and eleventh run-throughs) and this is still an issue.

My wish would be for even the ability to add ONE more to the adventuring party, that would eliminate the choice conundrum.    I would LOVE to take Dog along, but because I have so many companions that I am trying to keep happy, he usually ends up languishing in the camp, because he already loves me and he seems to be the least useful of all the companions.

The two I struggle with are Ohgren and Zevran.    They come along late in the story (the way I play)  as I usually do the Circle Tower before Orzammar and Redcliffe.   (I find it works better that way for me.  Then I can access lyrium powder for potions etc. )

So perhaps for me, it will be a relief not to have to coddle or babysit so many companions and keep them happy and not deserting me ..or attacking me lol.

Yes I am the type to try to keep everyone happy as best as I can.    Sometimes I kill Zevran off because,  I just don't feel like going through all that again.   lol

Hello
Well, the number of party member is a byzantine question; 3-6 would work equally fine.
 
 
The catch with the dog, is that he/she is very useful, no-one crunches through yellow Hurlock Emissaries like good old Mutt (charge + overwhelm)
So from a game mechanics stand point I can see why it is seen as full party member
Though to make it better,  I think he should have the skill tree to detect enemies (can’t remember the name) and special talent like discover hidden enemies or dig for deep mushrom (after all in RL we use dogs to find truffle)
 
The problem of companion development is that I cause issues for add-ons, if I had a choice I would not use any new companion and keep the old crew at least for the first play though.
I am sure I am not the only one to have a 3 preferred companions that do all the scenario and keep the other happy by doing theirs side quest and gift, (eventually taking them in a place that have been cleared to get out of camp dialog)
 
The other thing is that the more companions you have, the more alternative ending a given player will end up with.
 
phil

[Time4Tiddy]

In NWN2: MOTB, which is the most recent Bioware xpac that I'm aware of, they only gave you 3 party members _total_ and one romance option for each gender. Remember we're talking about an xpac, not a sequel. I think 5 new people is pretty decent, and I'm guessing one romance per gender, maybe one gender-neutral romance for a total of three romanceable party members. I don't expect an xpac to be a full game with the scope and length of DA:O.



I see people talking about the $40 price tag like that someone means they should get a full game, but DA:O was $60 - AND you can guarantee the xpac will be released later packaged with the original game as a GOTY edition for a total of $60 for those with patience. You'll also have people getting sales at the Targets and Wal-marts of the world (I paid $40 for DA:O three weeks after it came out). The $40 xpac price tag is what you pay for having a game the day it releases - you can't complain when you are paying the premium to be the first to play.

[blademaster7]

Five new companions and a returning one for an expansion is fine. It's not a full blown sequel, the resources of bioware are fairly limited.



Maybe they'll put a secret companion in the last stage of the game or something(aka Landsmeet in DAO). That would catch people off guard, in a good way.

[kansadoom]

Time4Tiddy wrote...

In NWN2: MOTB, which is the most recent Bioware xpac that I'm aware of, they only gave you 3 party members _total_ and one romance option for each gender. Remember we're talking about an xpac, not a sequel. I think 5 new people is pretty decent, and I'm guessing one romance per gender, maybe one gender-neutral romance for a total of three romanceable party members. I don't expect an xpac to be a full game with the scope and length of DA:O.

I see people talking about the $40 price tag like that someone means they should get a full game, but DA:O was $60 - AND you can guarantee the xpac will be released later packaged with the original game as a GOTY edition for a total of $60 for those with patience. You'll also have people getting sales at the Targets and Wal-marts of the world (I paid $40 for DA:O three weeks after it came out). The $40 xpac price tag is what you pay for having a game the day it releases - you can't complain when you are paying the premium to be the first to play.

NWN 2 wasnt made by bioware

[Tamyn]

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

We definitely wanted to focus on fewer companions with more interjection, banter, and involvement in the plots (and more of that elusive ingredient - TLC) than adding more to add more.

That sounds good. So long as I like at least one of them, I'll be happy.

[Knal1991]

are their unique powers for certain characters.... like dog, shale, wynne...

[Knal1991]

are their unique powers for certain characters.... like dog, shale, wynne...

[Feraele]

Tamyn wrote...

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...

We definitely wanted to focus on fewer companions with more interjection, banter, and involvement in the plots (and more of that elusive ingredient - TLC) than adding more to add more.

That sounds good. So long as I like at least one of them, I'll be happy.

Elusive ingredient..."TLC" ie: tender loving care, thats quite the interesting statement Ferret  

[Feraele]

The catch with the dog, is that he/she is very useful, no-one crunches through yellow Hurlock Emissaries like good old Mutt (charge + overwhelm)
So from a game mechanics stand point I can see why it is seen as full party member
Though to make it better, I think he should have the skill tree to detect enemies (can’t remember the name) and special talent like discover hidden enemies or dig for deep mushrom (after all in RL we use dogs to find truffle)

The problem of companion development is that I cause issues for add-ons, if I had a choice I would not use any new companion and keep the old crew at least for the first play though.
I am sure I am not the only one to have a 3 preferred companions that do all the scenario and keep the other happy by doing theirs side quest and gift, (eventually taking them in a place that have been cleared to get out of camp dialog)

The other thing is that the more companions you have, the more alternative ending a given player will end up with.

phil

---- END QUOTE

@ Philippe

Yes I think I'm going to be fine with the 5 new offerings. As for the "returning old favorite" its anyone's guess who that will be..but I am still convinced its not Ohgren LOL.

I think that would be great if Dog had some more abilities than the few he has. He is after all a dog, they should be able to pick up on the scent of an enemy stealther...as for digging truffles/mushrooms ..he already discovers, elfroot ..cake, balls of yarn..etc.

Or he could alert you that danger was coming before you saw it on your map.....would make him a bit more interesting. I like Dog despite his limited abilities, keep meaning to bring him along, but things start going fast and furious, and before you know it I have Leiliana, Sten..and Wynne all vying for time ..all needing attention so they end up giving you their quests and support.

Modifié par Feraele, 06 février 2010 - 02:01 .

[Upper_Krust]

Personally I think 6-7 companions is the perfect amount. 3 humans, each of a different class. 1 of each demi-human, each of a different class...and maybe one other non-human choice (like the dog) for variety.

Having two different characters of each class means you have a choice when putting together a party and filling certain roles.

As I am sure Bioware are aware, the three most popular companions were Morrigan, Alistair and Leilana. All three human, relatively young, attractive, each filling a different class and pretty much the first three companions you get to keep throughout the game (other than dog).

But I think its the contrast of characters which often allows for differences to shine.

[Tsumoro]

I actually like lots of companions but they have to be diverse, so no two alike so to speak. So, for me the more the merrier as it makes me want to replay and experience the game differently. With romances, which I enjoy completely I would like it to be more personal. Bioware did a fab job with Baldur's Gate 2, like how your romance to that character affected your game experience as you came to other chapters. It was personal, and it meant more to me as a player.



I don't believe too less or too more characters affects the gaming experience in the slightest, they are there really for your own personal exploration. So if hey want to keep the amount of characters in a game... I am all for it, just flesh them out more with a personal story/adventure.

[BramAlam12345]

kansadoom wrote...

Time4Tiddy wrote...

In NWN2: MOTB, which is the most recent Bioware xpac that I'm aware of, they only gave you 3 party members _total_ and one romance option for each gender. Remember we're talking about an xpac, not a sequel. I think 5 new people is pretty decent, and I'm guessing one romance per gender, maybe one gender-neutral romance for a total of three romanceable party members. I don't expect an xpac to be a full game with the scope and length of DA:O.

I see people talking about the $40 price tag like that someone means they should get a full game, but DA:O was $60 - AND you can guarantee the xpac will be released later packaged with the original game as a GOTY edition for a total of $60 for those with patience. You'll also have people getting sales at the Targets and Wal-marts of the world (I paid $40 for DA:O three weeks after it came out). The $40 xpac price tag is what you pay for having a game the day it releases - you can't complain when you are paying the premium to be the first to play.

NWN 2 wasnt made by bioware

And there were 5 party members.

[Nitroxit]

David Gaider wrote...
Yes, we have some pretty hard data regarding the companions used most often, where people spent their time, which classes and origins are played and so forth. It's pretty compelling stuff.

That would be really interesting to publish. A bit like Valve does with their stats: http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
Any chances of this happening? Or any chance of giving a hint what the most popular companion and origin are (if i have to guess: morrigan and human noble)?

[Feraele]

Nitroxit wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
Yes, we have some pretty hard data regarding the companions used most often, where people spent their time, which classes and origins are played and so forth. It's pretty compelling stuff.

That would be really interesting to publish. A bit like Valve does with their stats: http://store.steampowered.com/stats/
Any chances of this happening? Or any chance of giving a hint what the most popular companion and origin are (if i have to guess: morrigan and human noble)?

I would find that interesting data as well...just for curiosity's sake.

[WilliamShatner]

I am a dismayed by how BioWare seems to treat characters in follow ups.



In ME2 we only had two of our beloved characters were brought back and now it seems only one character from DA:O is brought back.



I think BioWare has it the wrong way around, it should always be the original cast + a few new ones, not a few of the original cast + lots of new ones.



I can't be the only one who wants to see the continuing adventures of the characters we fell in loved with in the first place.

[hexaligned]

As long as the characters are well done, I don't care if they are new or old, There isn't anyone in DAO that I particuarly enjoyed enough to want them back though....maybe Dog.

[Maria Caliban]

David Gaider wrote...

I sometimes think it would be more worthwhile to simply craft enough companions to fill out the party and leave it at that -- you could create *much* more content to fill out those characters with quests and integrate them more closely into the plot.

That's a great idea. I'd be behind it.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

I seriously prefer to have all of the old cast brought back with few or even no new companions. It might be very hard for some people (Like me) to warm up to the new characters after having such a good time with the originals.



And I also second David's idea.

[Spitz6860]

DA and ME2 both have at least 10 companions, to me that's kinda too much. for ME i think a comfortable zone would be 5-6 and 6-7 for dragon age. more characters you do, less focused and polished they get. imagine the existing characters in both games get 2-3 character/loyalty missions and twice the dialog. right now there are instances i would expect a character to say something during a mission but he/she doesn't. for example



*ME2 spoiler alert*

after i brought Legion aboard Normandy i expected Tali to comment on the situation and whether i should activate him or not. but she doesn't react to Legion at all until i finish both their loyalty mission.



*spolier ends*



it's times like this that i would remind myself that it's a video game. i understand why Bioware would want to make so many characters to please everybody, but to me that can be done with fewer characters, as long as you make them interesting, you know, add more dimensions to their personality, make them change based your conversation choice and events in the game as the times goes on etc, i don't think i should go too deep with this since i'm not a professional writer and i'm sure the writers in Bioware know what they are doing.