90 réponses à ce sujet

[Yobani]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

I seriously prefer to have all of the old cast brought back with few or even no new companions. It might be very hard for some people (Like me) to warm up to the new characters after having such a good time with the originals.

And I also second David's idea.

i'm agree with you, c'mon

if I get a chance I will kill all the new teammates, the first one anders,
hehe, so may not be included in upcoming expansion and bring back the
old companions XD

Modifié par Yobani, 07 février 2010 - 07:53 .

[--Master of All--]

Maria Caliban wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I sometimes think it would be more worthwhile to simply craft enough companions to fill out the party and leave it at that -- you could create *much* more content to fill out those characters with quests and integrate them more closely into the plot.

That's a great idea. I'd be behind it.

Seconded. It would take away the need to run around camp every mission catching up with people. This would
allow conversations with individual party members to be better integrated into the main plot, instead of seeming
like a separate and largely unrelated aspect of the game. The entire experience would become more seamless.

As it is, talking to party members and listening to banter is an enjoyable distraction, but it feels more like a
mini-game than a substantial part of the plot and rarely moves the story forward, except for a few specific
scripted events, which are some of the most enjoyable parts of the game for me, personally.

Modifié par --Master of All--, 08 février 2010 - 10:28 .

[Tekkaman Saber]

Maybe with a six party unit it could work.

Though I think 5/6 companions is a good limit, the last thing you need is a never iwnter nights 2 scenario where you are choc a bloc with meiocre and bland companions >_>

[--Master of All--]

Tekkaman Saber wrote...

Maybe with a six party unit it could work.
Though I think 5/6 companions is a good limit, the last thing you need is a never iwnter nights 2 scenario where you are choc a bloc with meiocre and bland companions >_>

This is Bioware, not Obsidian. Bioware doesn't make bland companions (ok, with a couple exceptions). One of Bioware's
greatest strengths is character development. I'd like to see them try making stronger use of it.

Modifié par --Master of All--, 08 février 2010 - 10:32 .

[Tekkaman Saber]

David Gaider wrote...

Merci357 wrote...
Out of curiosity, if you enable "upload gameplay feedback" ingame, don't you get solid data from us, what options went well, what companions were used more often, so you can evolve from there? Or is this gameplay feedback used for more basic information?

Yes, we have some pretty hard data regarding the companions used most often, where people spent their time, which classes and origins are played and so forth. It's pretty compelling stuff.

Hmm I am interested about this data.....
Are you alloweed to tel us what the sent data is?
I'm just curious about how indepth it is e.g. prefferred romance, armour sets, weapons, enchantments or most money earned etc


edit
@ Moa
True I guess I should of been more clear, though I was throwing out Neverwinter nights 2 just as an example fo the kind of nightmare that can occur when resources are wasted on to many playable characters.

I've been a bioware fan since the baldurs gate days so I allready know that good characters and story development are the teams forte.....
Well except baldurs gate 1 though they can be forgiven due to lack of technology and how improved Badlurs gate 2 was.

Modifié par Tekkaman Saber, 08 février 2010 - 10:50 .

[Loerwyn]

Mr Gaider, I'm going to guess the top companions are Morrigan, Wynne, Alastair, Leliana and maybe Zevran?

I think DA:O had roughly the right number (wouldn't have missed the lack of Sten or Oghren though, take your pick), and Awakening has what, 6? Probably a decent number as long as it's a 2/2/2 split between the classes.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Ferret A Baudoin wrote...



We definitely wanted to focus on fewer companions with more interjection, banter, and involvement in the plots (and more of that elusive ingredient - TLC) than adding more to add more.

David Gaider wrote...



we have some pretty hard data regarding the companions used most often, where people spent their time, which classes and origins are played and so forth. It's pretty compelling stuff.

Numbers sometimes lie IMHO. Even with my BS in Mathematics, life has taught me to be careful with raw data. Sometimes there are reasons for numbers to be one way that aren’t obvious. In regards to DAO the number of folks using Alistair is a great example. The game throws him at you early and he’s highly involved in the main plot of the game. Those two factors alone are going to give him more “party use time” than other NPC ... and may obscure things that folks didn’t like about him. Similarly Zevran comes into play much later than Leliana and is not pre-built to be a lockpicker, so he’s bound to see less playtime overall even if folks like him more. If players had a choice of either Leliana & Zevran equally early in the game, with both of them being pre-statted in an equally useful way you would have a lot better comparison to look at when examining usage rates.



I totally get the less is more. The plot heavy NPCs like Alistair, Morrigan, and such will get more usage time for obvious reasons. Similarly romanceable NPCs will likely get usage time. Entertaining NPC with cool quests get more usage time. So shooting to do this is a good thing. NPCs you can influence the way you can “harden” Leliana & Alistair, will get more usage since they will fit more playstyles (and I’ll note that it would be interesting to be able to do the reverse – an option to “unharden” Morrigan would probably have made her the most popular NPC bar none).



That’s really what I want to see if we really are limited to fewer companions. In addition to plot involvement and chatter I think that we really need to be able to have opportunities to shape the personalities of these NPCs to fit our playstyle.



I also want to note that I love Dog, but I never use him. It’s a classic case of idea = great but implementation isn’t so hot. I love the Dog as a summonable critter mod and IMHO that’s what he should have been all along. Shale was similar, in terms of being limited to using specific equipment and talents … but she was much better built as she had more choices in both departments. Her interaction was much better as well.

[Wishpig]

Yobani wrote...

DrunkDeadman wrote...

I seriously prefer to have all of the old cast brought back with few or even no new companions. It might be very hard for some people (Like me) to warm up to the new characters after having such a good time with the originals.

And I also second David's idea.

i'm agree with you, c'mon

if I get a chance I will kill all the new teammates, the first one anders,
hehe, so may not be included in upcoming expansion and bring back the
old companions XD

Jeez, history repeats it's self eh?

Every bioware sequal or expansion you hear this, "I don't want NEW companions I want the OLD companions."

Game comes out, people love new companions... Dragon Age 2 comes around, "I don't want NEW companions I want the EXPANSION companions."

Dragon Age 3 comes around, " I don't want NEW companions, I want Dragon Age 2 companions!"

Bioware are the masters of creating deep and thrilling companions, have faith, and be open minded.

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Mr Gaider, I'm going to guess the top companions are Morrigan, Wynne, Alastair, Leliana and maybe Zevran?
I
think DA:O had roughly the right number (wouldn't have missed the lack
of Sten or Oghren though, take your pick), and Awakening has what, 6?
Probably a decent number as long as it's a 2/2/2 split between the
classes.

Lol, yea, I'm sure the least popular companion (wynee) was ironically one of the most used given her role as a healer.

And with five warrior roles (Alistair, Oghren, Sten... and also including Dog and Shale) there was a big imbalance of classes. I'm sure they realise how this effected stats.

But I am also hoping for a 2/2/2 spilt. Or rather a 2/2/1 split... we're gonna at least be short 1 with 1 class.

Modifié par Wishpig, 08 février 2010 - 03:29 .

[Marso40]

I'm torn on the issue of how many companions is optimum.



On the one hand, Mr. Gaider makes a strong point about being able to more fully develop a fewer number of companions. Quality is generally better than quantity, true.



On the flip side, with the larger number of companions in DAO I've had a heck of a lot of replayability with different party configurations, talent, armor and weapon combos, etc. Sometimes quantity has a quality all its own. Within reason, of course.



Either way, I think Bioware hit it out of the park and over the river with this game.

[MandatoryDenial1]

WilliamShatner wrote...

I am a dismayed by how BioWare seems to treat characters in follow ups. 

I am in complete agreement with you on this.  One of the things that made the original Baldur's Gate series so great was the continuity of companions.  You got to see them grow and the romances not only stayed with you but they grew.  This was what made the whole Bhodi incident in BG2: SOA so powerful and memorable.  I think the choice to depart from the strategy which worked so well for Bioware is just a terrible design decision.  I am not sure what metrics they are looking at, but Bioware really needs to listen to the fans.  Almost everyone has been asking for a continuity with both the PC and the companions. 

Again I understand that continuity can't be 100% in order to maintain believability.  It does however in my opinion need to be more than just this "1 returning character."  If you put a group of people together and they fight together to overcome great odds, chances are very good they will band together again when one or all are in need.  Its simply unbelievable from a story standpoint that only one would return.  It defies belief that the romance interest wouldn't be the one that returns.  Just my .02$ as a fan for whatever it is worth.

Modifié par MandatoryDenial1, 09 février 2010 - 02:44 .

[A_VikingAssassin]

ibitybibitybobitybo

[A_VikingAssassin]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...



Mr Gaider, I'm going to guess the top companions are Morrigan, Wynne, Alastair, Leliana and maybe Zevran?

I

think DA:O had roughly the right number (wouldn't have missed the lack

of Sten or Oghren though, take your pick), and Awakening has what, 6?

Probably a decent number as long as it's a 2/2/2 split between the

classes.



Wikia said alistair morrigan zev leliana

[Suilebhain]

When I run a fighter class as my character, Alistair stays at the camp. The need for a rogue, plus her charming character, make Leliana a must no matter what class I run. I bring Wynne unless I run a mage. Morrigan is an absolute given. Zev only gets play time when I am doing assassin runs or dealing with elves, to see his reactions. Otherwise he is hanging at the camp with Sten.



So, I would say Morrigan, Leliana, Alistair, Wynne.

[Suilebhain]

No, people complain about things that make them unhappy.



I actually enjoyed running around camp talking to everyone, especially at the end of my night. Somehow, touching base with the companions around the campfire brought a sort of closure to a tough session of fighting darkspawn. I never would have had the chance to pass out from Oggy's brew if I didn't talk to everyone. Taking something like that away reduces the game to more of a FPS, as does removing romance options.

[Vim]

David Gaider wrote...

I sometimes think it would be more worthwhile to simply craft enough companions to fill out the party and leave it at that -- you could create *much* more content to fill out those characters with quests and integrate them more closely into the plot. Trying to offer more options just for the sake of options becomes tricky -- sometimes it really seems that the more options you provide the more some players see what's not there rather than what is. Give them one opening to the game and they accept it's the only one. Give them six and they wonder "why not seven? why not ten? why can't I be a human commoner or an apostate? If you give me choices I want all of them!"

Not to mention that resources become spread more thinly until the option you're providing is more a choice of faces and stats rather than fleshed-out characters... but maybe that's what some people want, I don't know. Depending on the game, it might be fine.

But I only sometimes think this.

It appears to me that expanding the game to allow 5 or 6 companions and crafting just enough companions to fill out the party would be optimal for several reasons:
-

1)  It seems ridiculously artificial to me that I can't take all my party members along when I travel. It seems silly that I need to leave my faithful dog back in camp just because he isn't one of my 3 most useful party members from a plot or game-play perspective.
-

2)  It is unrealistic for a player to have run through an area with every possible combination of companions just to ensure he or she doesn't miss character development & quest opportunities with the new dialogue system.  It breaks the sense of immersion into the game. 
-


3) The game as it is works fairly well if you use a mod or console script to exceed the party limit and increase the number of companions you bring along to four or five (especially if they're dog and/or shale since those two are already explicitly written into nearly every scene in the game if they're present as an addition to your primary three companions ). 


With six companions the screen starts feeling cluttered unfortunately, and with seven, eight, or nine simultaneous companions the cluttered feeling gets progressively worse until you're feeling positively claustrophobic.  Bioware would have to add an additional zoom level to make six or more companions feel natural I think. I've spent some time poking around with the toolset and have concluded that it wouldn't take much effort to increase companion support from three to five should Bioware decide to do so. I would not recommend exceeding six permanent companions however.
-

4) I hate story holes, and I have at times gotten the feeling that Bioware tends to offer more choices than it has the resources to properly develop & support.  This causes irate fans. By  limiting the number of possible characters and allowing them to all be in the party simultaneously the number of possible permutations and the strain on the writing team would be reduced. This would enable the writing of more character content and a tighter integration of that content into the plot as you mentioned earlier. This would be a huge win for everyone.
-

So I for one am very much in favor of limiting the number of companions to five or six and being able to keep them all with you. 

Modifié par Vim, 18 mars 2010 - 04:58 .