179 réponses à ce sujet

[abx009]

Your first point actually goes into my gripe, which is just that the feel of the game is off; you go from feeling like being part of the ME universe, to feeling like you're watching a movie, to feeling like you're playing an arcade game, and the transition is fairly jarring. It's not as much of a cohesive experience as it was in the first game.



They could have done better, IMO, without actually showing the face. They could have shown the back of the neck/head, the hand, the feet, or something that would have given us a vague sense of what they might look like without revealing the face (before ME3?).



I also agree about the fish; I paid for that goddam fish, and I want to see it!!

[AtreiyaN7]

At this point, I just want to see a Quarian's face - I mean ANY Quarian. I'm a female, and Tali's like my little sister, so it has nothing to do with romance. I'm just being driven insane by not knowing what Quarians look like. As for the cuddling and such, well it all looked okay with my FemShep and Thane. However, I did see videos of Garrus & FemShep that looked a little odd. I think it appeared as if Garrus' right hand was caressing thin air (you know, cuddling on the bed).

[ComTrav]

You know, those cuddle scenes don't look half as ridiculous as the Garrus ones. (So Garrus is going to rock his battle armor in an intimate moment? Wouldn't it like, tear up the couch?)

[rhagen1]

I would use the default face if you have problems with the facial expressions, I never had a problem with mine.

[pvt_java]

Axeface wrote...

Tbh, One of my main goals in ME2 was romancing tali and finally seeing her face. I totally agree with the OP, it was a real "FFS" moment that totally removed me from my shepard. I almost cried tbh and felt very let down.

If my shepard sees it, I SHOULD SEE IT, as I AM MY SHEPARD.

Truely frustrating. I still love tali, but I'm just dying to see her face
Shes such a great character, and I was expecting an amazing moment where she removes her mask and looks at you with nervous eyes (no one has seen her face she says) and waits for some kind of reaction from you.


If they are saving it for ME3 then cool, I have no problem waiting. But if this is the case she shouldnt have removed her mask at all, like I said, if my shepard sees it, I should see it.

 You almost cried because you didn't see Tali's face...?

I'd say they should show Kal'Reegar's face, which I always imagined to be fairly scarred and such, which would atleast give us a basic physiology.

[drhys23]

is it me or was everyone like way more horny on this mission? especially shep.

[Kharn-ivor]

I work as a character artist so about the second part , His expression is a bit weird but thats probably due to what expressions they had in stock and how the mesh is deforming.

As for clipping, its here to stay ,it happens in every game. Unless everything is deformable and you can simulate real time deformation without it looking stupid then its going to happen.

Edit: As for the face showing or not, thats a subject close to home lol . Well they didnt show it now and they probably wont. Ppls imagination fill in, no character artist, concept artist or artist can make something that everyone will like so why take the chance.

Modifié par Kharn-ivor, 04 février 2010 - 01:09 .

[Beavisan]

I think it would be awesome if Bioware created a DLC that allowed us to design Tali's face using the character customizer. That way Tali will look like you imagine for your Shepard.

[Killer Irish]

[quote]Remianen wrote...

[quote]Gill Kaiser wrote...

I doubt we'll ever see it. At this point Bioware can not win. There's no way they'd get away with showing her face, because anything they come up with will be ripped to shreds. Too many people have too many seperate ideals of how Tali should look.[/quote]

I guess I don't have those kinds of expectations.  If they can come up with the Asari I don't think I would be disapointed with their choice when it comes to Tali.  I guess I just wanted that emotional pay off and got a tad bit miffed when I didn't get it.

[/quote]


I think it's an opportunity for them to do a BIG reveal. If things progress into ME3 the way I think (war against the Reapers, gathering allies among the sapient races, quarian and geth fighting together, war changes people's views, yadda yadda yadda), they could have the post-end mission be the Quarians returning to their homeworld with the geth assisting them in reacclimating (or recovered Reaper tech eliminating the need for reacclimation) and Tali finally able to bask in the sun, sans suit. So it goes from being a simple face reveal to a full body one.

I dunno, it just feels like they're building anticipation to me.
[/quote]


Once again, this is another suggestion that would give me hope!

[Killer Irish]

im better than you wrote...

If i don't get to see tali's face in ME3 I will throw my xbox out the window and smash my tv with a baseball bat.

Whoa....way to step up the threat level.   Ya hear that Bioware?!?  This man will not only destroy his own Xbox, not only destroy his TV, but will probably cause a pedestrian to get seriously injured (and or die) due to walking outside on the sidewalk at the exact same time he throws said Xbox.

[chool77]

LOL and yes .... i want to see her face....



but when they are sitting on the couch it looks like they are talking....and he is just trying to listen but all he can think about is how he saw her naked lolol

[polishanarky]

Signed up to post. Done some thinking.



First, are you in love? Have you ever been in love?



Feelings, thoughts--fill in the blank spaces BioWare leaves for you.



Reality and imagination hold power far greater than a screen can ever represent. Let your mind's eye cultivate your feelings about someone--real or not, I know not everyone has the fortune--and you will see Tali.

[matt30822]

Hmmm... Clearly - (In terms of seeing Tali's face - or any quarian face for that matter) i think it was intended to stay a mystery until the end of Mass Effect 3. It is one of those mysteries that Bioware knew the hardcore would like to talk over and speculate and therefore keep it like a running gag until the trilogy is completed. I would expect to see either Tali's or another quarians face by the end of the Mass Effect Trilogy.

[Killer Irish]

redelephant wrote...

Killer Irish wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

And the other issue is with custom Shepards. It happens. If it bugs you, play with the default Shepaloo.

But it's not with the custom Shepard, it's with the love interests model.  His fingers are going into her arm and we don't change his arm length.

It's not particularly with the model either. Most of these bodily animation stuff is done with mocap, a lot cheaper and productive  than letting animators do all these motions - moving every node, frame by frame. The animators have their hands full with letting dog-mechs run, letting grunt talk, the collector\\\\s fly etc. 

bodily mocap doesn't [usually] include fingers, plus the mocap actors do not share the same proportions as the 3D model, let alone one that has 'inverse legs' and wears an enviro-suit. I can't really blame them. Keyframing a hand like that on a mocap animation is hell.

  No, I do understand what I am asking out of the animation team.  Even though I'm just an Environment Artist I do understand what it takes to do MoCap and the "cleaning" process that is involved.  Actually I'm at work right now and the person sitting next to me just so happens to be a specialist in that department.  The work I have seen her do is the reason why I'm calling this particular scene out into question.  Like I said in the video though, I'm not condemning Bioware for this or anything.  Most likey it was a time issue...and when it's crunch time some of the spit and polish stuff gets pushed to the side.  But just due to this being a locked-down-close-up-shot is why it is so noticable and why I point it out.  Plus, with other amazing animation moments in the game (the slight hints at emotions on the character's faces were absolutely perfect!) that is just one more reason these cuddle scenes stick out.

  I do agree with you though...MoCap cleaning is a pain in the arse and why I would rather model props than do animation any day!

[Killer Irish]

Axeface wrote...

Tbh, One of my main goals in ME2 was romancing tali and finally seeing her face. I totally agree with the OP, it was a real "FFS" moment that totally removed me from my shepard. I almost cried tbh and felt very let down.

If my shepard sees it, I SHOULD SEE IT, as I AM MY SHEPARD.

Truely frustrating. I still love tali, but I'm just dying to see her face
Shes such a great character, and I was expecting an amazing moment where she removes her mask and looks at you with nervous eyes (no one has seen her face she says) and waits for some kind of reaction from you.


If they are saving it for ME3 then cool, I have no problem waiting. But if this is the case she shouldnt have removed her mask at all, like I said, if my shepard sees it, I should see it.

My friend, I couldn't have said it better myself!   I felt the exact same way and wanted the exact same thing when Tali's mask was removed.  To even have a conversation option for when she does remove her mask and we are looking at her. I also agree that if they are holding off until ME3 (even though the wait sucks) I would be fine with that as well.  Just no more of this removing me from my character crap just to keep the mystery alive! (seriously, I have enough of that with the TV show "LOST," I don't need it in my game)

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

polishanarky wrote...

Signed up to post. Done some thinking.

First, are you in love? Have you ever been in love?

Feelings, thoughts--fill in the blank spaces BioWare leaves for you.

Reality and imagination hold power far greater than a screen can ever represent. Let your mind's eye cultivate your feelings about someone--real or not, I know not everyone has the fortune--and you will see Tali.

Cool man. Live with a blindfold the rest of your life and fill in the gaps.

Tali needs a face.

[Dracotamer]

I was greatly disappointed as well. I really wanted to see her face, especially after they built up to it and she speaks about you seeing her face. But, NOPE! You don't get to.

[Killer Irish]

Dracotamer wrote...

I was greatly disappointed as well. I really wanted to see her face, especially after they built up to it and she speaks about you seeing her face. But, NOPE! You don't get to.

Yeah, the build up, the anticipation, not to mention the amazing voice actor who really drew you into the Tali Character.  There have been a lot of suggestions that they may resolve this in ME3...dear God I hope so!  Even though I thought it was a horrible decision to seperate the player from their character at that moment, it would make the waiting worth it if they did show her completely free of her suit in ME3.  Like maybe if the Quarians get their home planet back so they don't need their suits anymore.

[Pauravi]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

I doubt we'll ever see it. At this point Bioware can not win. There's no way they'd get away with showing her face, because anything they come up with will be ripped to shreds. Too many people have too many seperate ideals of how Tali should look.

I don't agree.  I think that the majority of Tali-lovers will be happy with however she looks.  As many have pointed out, we loved her character before she ever HAD a face.  I certainly will be happy with whatever she looks like.

However, I will be extremely disappointed if they never show her face at all.  Nobody except Shepard has seen Tali without her mask; it is something intimate that Tali shares with Shepard because she trusts and adores him.  If I don't get to see her face it will feel like I have been cheated out of that intimacy with her character, even after more than 2 epic games worth of building my relationship with her.
Not wanting to see her face seems absurd to me, though.  Would you want your girlfriend to wear a veil that she never takes off just so you can pretend that she looks just how you want her to?  IMO, that seems more like the wishes of someone who is afraid that they will like Tali less if she doesn't live up to their expectations.

[Gunner-th]

Clipping issue is due to generic skeleton animation. They would have to re animate it for each of the characters.

And Shepard is the only person who's seen Tali's face, and since we're Shepard we should see it.  Clearly this is undeniable logic. People can deal with whatever she looks like. I'm tired of character's face being their helmet.

Modifié par Gunner-th, 04 février 2010 - 09:03 .

[Collider]

Cuddling on Bed
-Clipping.
-Shepard stroking nothingness with his right arm.
-Lack of different animations.
Coach
-Clipping.
-Tali looks like she is talking but Shepard looks bored or indifferent. Could just be the way I made my Shepard's face though - not that he is unable to smile though.
-Something awkward which I can't put my finger on.

Modifié par Collider, 04 février 2010 - 09:05 .

[kennyme2]

I completely agree with the OP, Shepard seeing Tali's face totally broke immersion for me.



It really bothered me how they implemented not seeing her face, too. It was an UGLY camera angle. They just put it right behind her head without any excuse as to why they weren't showing her face. It was just a total shutdown for me and I took it as Bioware saying, yeah your Shep can see Tali but not you. Really, I would have liked it if they hid her face a little more gracefully instead of shoving the camera behind her.

[Sageless Ranger]

Beavisan wrote...

I think it would be awesome if Bioware created a DLC that allowed us to design Tali's face using the character customizer. That way Tali will look like you imagine for your Shepard.

I wouldnt like that, I personally cant picture her face besides what I can see through her mask, and whatever bioware comes up with will be way better than what could come up with, they and all the other Li's look awesome, why should I expect diffenrent for Tali, and if I was the one to create talis face, it wouldn't feel like Tali, since I knew that I made her up. Also, I think that bioware needs to make DLC pertaining to furthuring your relationship  with your LI, 

[Sageless Ranger]

Collider wrote...

Cuddling on Bed
-Clipping.
-Shepard stroking nothingness with his right arm.
-Lack of different animations.
Coach
-Clipping.
-Tali looks like she is talking but Shepard looks bored or indifferent. Could just be the way I made my Shepard's face though - not that he is unable to smile though.
-Something awkward which I can't put my finger on.

My shepard actually looked happy to me, since everyone makes shep a little different that must play a role in if he looks happy.

[Elastica]

I'm just grateful they added they cuddling animations, they're a nice touch. The minor clipping and face expressions don't bother me at all.



As regards Tali's face, I don't really need to see it. I like how they played it, showing it to Shepard but not the player. C'mon, people, that's what makes Tali special after all, the fact that she can seduce *you* without showing her face or a carefully engineered Miranda-style body.