179 réponses à ce sujet

[Sageless Ranger]

Elastica wrote...

I'm just grateful they added they cuddling animations, they're a nice touch. The minor clipping and face expressions don't bother me at all.

As regards Tali's face, I don't really need to see it. I like how they played it, showing it to Shepard but not the player. C'mon, people, that's what makes Tali special after all, the fact that she can seduce *you* without showing her face or a carefully engineered Miranda-style body.

It sorta broke the immersion for me, its like oh your not shepard an  for this part. And I would have fallen for her even if you could see her face, they should at least make it an option for 3. 

[The_KFD_Case]

@KillerIrish:

lol! That video clip had me laughing out loud repeatedly. Congrats to your mate.

As for not seeing Tali's face after such a MASSIVE build up is a disappointment you and I share! I recall playing "ME1" and wishing Tali was a romance option as I preferred her character over the others (though Ashley had some lovely tenderness once you got past her shell). Lo and behold! Roll on "ME2" and not only is Tali back but she is a romance option AND it promises to reveal her face! Two of my top wishes for the "ME" universe fulfilled in one fell swoop (yes, note the use of the word "fell")....Or so I thought. Just as I'm proverbially salivating in my mind's eye standing on the precipice of final revelation of Tali's visage BioWare gremlins special task group strike: TA-DAA! Surprise! No reveal of Tali's face despite a tender look from my male Paragon Shepard lead (that's the one part I disagree with you on; my male Shepard had a tender look on his face, as though he was lovingly admiring Tali's face).

It had me chuckling at BioWare's cheekiness but simultaneously I let out a low howl of mock protest. "ME2" is easily the best damn gaming experience I have ever had ("DA:O" was the best game I've played in the past 10 years until I played "ME2" - I adore BioWare's game work/art) as far as my conscious memory is concerned, and I've been gaming for about a quarter of a century (C64 days). Though this disappointment does not "ruin" the game for me I would heartily appreciate it if Tali's face is fully revealed in "ME3". Please do it BioWare; I can use my own imagination but I want to see what BioWare's interpretation of Quarian facial features looks like and barring some counter-announcement "ME3" will be the last chance we will get (possibly ever - that's still a depressing thought to me).

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 04 février 2010 - 09:46 .

[The_KFD_Case]

Naltair wrote...

I saw it coming once I knew she was an option I figured we would not see it till ME3.

Hell we may never see it.

While "it's just a game, etc." I would be truly disappointed if that occurs. Indeed, I suspect it would outright annoy me the way being left high and dry on a cliff hanger can do to one. What a beastly thought!

[TLK Spires]

not seeing her face - you got your cake, but you don't get to eat it.. yet.



cuddling - ... it's innocent cuddling. no qualms here.

[Xandurpein]

I'm sure it's mentioned before but I found it really funny to notice the photo frame on Shepard's desk. I imported a game from ME1 where I had romanced Ashley, so it was Ashley's face in the photo frame. After the short meeting with Ashley, Kelly asked me if I still loved Ashley and when I sad no, the photo frame on my desk was empty next time I was in my room. I suppose it was Kelly who fixed it... So when I got Tali to admit that she was in love with me I just had to run up to my chambers and see if Tali now was in the photo frame, but the photo frame had tipped over so the actual photo was impossible to see. You are not ment to see Tali's face even on a photo...

Modifié par Xandurpein, 04 février 2010 - 09:53 .

[The_KFD_Case]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

I doubt we'll ever see it. At this point Bioware can not win. There's no way they'd get away with showing her face, because anything they come up with will be ripped to shreds. Too many people have too many seperate ideals of how Tali should look.

I think your point has some validity, however personally I would much rather see BioWare's own interpretation of Tali's face than none at all from the official source (i.e. BioWare). I have had some limited flashes of what Tali might look like yet I wonder if perhaps I'm not making her features a bit too human. From where I stand BioWare is the only group that has the definitive authority to declare what is canon and what is not regarding Tali's face, and yes, they could pull a fast one and have her looks be of a nature that I might find highly repulsive which would put me at odds with myself in regards to how I feel about her as a person/character. It is a risk I'm more than willing to face although admittedly with some trepidation.

To any BioWare staff, if you come upon this post please...please..won't you pass my hopes for a full Tali face reveal on internally and let me know that you at least read this thread/post? I'm not asking you to explain, defend nor reveal whatever your plans for Tali and the Quarians are in the future yet it would be comforting to at least receive confirmation that BioWare has become aware of my and many others' wishes on this matter (although I suspect it has hardly escaped BioWare staff members' thought processes).

[Collider]

I would love it if you romanced Tali in ME2, in ME3 you get to see Tali's face and of course Shep and Tali act like it's nothing because they've already kissed etc before.

[Xandurpein]

This is just a thought, and maybe I'm reading way to much into it, but from the few glimpses we get of Tali's features through the face plate she seems to have a somewhat distinctive nose, this could easily just be a placeholder, but I think it's not too unlike the shape of the nose of Liz Sroka, Tali's the voice actor (who should get lots of credits for making Tali so wonderful).

[The_KFD_Case]

TLK Spires wrote...

not seeing her face - you got your cake, but you don't get to eat it.. yet.

cuddling - ... it's innocent cuddling. no qualms here.

Emphasis on "yet" I hope!

Sheesh. Look at me: I'm a grown adult man yet here I am like a smitten school boy gibbering over a pixel fictional female character. Just goes to show the power of superb story telling. It may sound strange to some yet the "ME" franchise has had a profound effect on me. I feel genuinely inspired by characters like Shepard and his close knit group. I'm under no illusion that they are fictional and just as with movies all but impossible stunts are pulled off that would likely have far different outcomes in our contemporary world (some might say more mundane world although it too has its wonders and riches).

*bittersweet sigh*

[The_KFD_Case]

Xandurpein wrote...

This is just a thought, and maybe I'm reading way to much into it, but from the few glimpses we get of Tali's features through the face plate she seems to have a somewhat distinctive nose, this could easily just be a placeholder, but I think it's not too unlike the shape of the nose of Liz Sroka, Tali's the voice actor (who should get lots of credits for making Tali so wonderful).

Aye, Liz Sroka does a tremendous bit of voice acting (indeed, I find BioWare consistently deliver top of the line VA in their games). I'm unsure as to whether it is there out of technical necessity (i.e. place holder as you mentioned), or whether it is intentionally meant to hint at Quarian facial features. If it's a case of the latter then Quarians may be far more "human looking" than might be expected given the somewhat bird-like features of Quarian legs and hands. I have this vague image in my mind's eye that the Quarians may have evolved from a lizard-like species (see a previous poster's comment about an arid world) which would also fit with the legs and hands/claws of Quarians. That doesn't necessitate them being hideous looking. In the concept artbook that came with my Collector's Edition of "ME2" it mentions the challenge BioWare had in designing Thane to be both uniquely alien in appearance while also making him appealing as a potential love interest. Personally I would hope Quarians are far more refined (i.e. it need not be silk smooth skin, but perhaps slightly dry yet not rough skin that might even be tiny, very fine scales if they are of lizard descent - exotic yet still attractive by general human standards is certainaly do-able).

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 04 février 2010 - 10:49 .

[ELOE1985]

The Venus De Milo is seen as a beautiful piece of art despite not having arms. In fact, some say the statue is only beautiful because it has no arms.

Similarly, Tali remains as great as she is without us ever seeing her face. By not showing her true face, we will always be able to imagine her as beautiful, regardless of how we would perceive beauty- something no other romancable character can stake claim to. And if Bioware never shows us her true face, I'll never be disappointed with them.

[The_KFD_Case]

NeoGuardian86 wrote...

i'm not worried about what she'll look like. in fact i've always thought that they may have some sort of scale like texture to their face (since Legion says that Rannoch is more arid than Earth).

even if it's silky smooth with some funky color that'd be fine as well.

the mystery is getting overrated, and i for one am not worried what she'd look like. Just seems like one of those things that if you fell in love with the character you oguht to see what they look like as well.

I mean i'm hearing people fell in love with Miranda because she has a great face and ass.. and i'm saying i fell in love with the character for her quirkyness and being the ultimate the strong but flustered when intimate smart chick.
That's why i'd love to see her face, it'd be a perfect perfect... perfect way to reward those player who fell in love with the character.

in fact, Bioware only has to do is make the character's face attractive to keep most fans happy.

This. You have just summed up all my complex and deeply delightful feelings for Tali in two-two and a half sentences.

[The_KFD_Case]

Mangasage wrote...

Lady_Azjurai wrote...

Instead of Tali's face, why not a DLC with another Quarians face somewhere? That way we get an idea of how she might look from their PoV - without ruining our own ideas of how she looks.

I think that's the best solution.  At least give us a hint at what the Quarian look like so if Tali's face/body are eventually revealed, there will be less shock or backlash.

I think I would be far more inclined to become irate if that half-way solution is implemented. Compromise can be well and good yet on this occassion it would simply end up satisfying neither camp (presuming there are those that really do not want to see Tali's face vs. those of us that most definitely do want to see Tali's face as put forth by BioWare). This is about the proverbial "cake" and I'm quite literally a bit desperate to finally have the wizard lift the curtain....I hope such a reveal won't be disappointing yet I'm not too hard to please where it concerns game character art, and if it should turn out to be disappointing to my senses then I still walk away more complete for the experience. That's what this is really about fundamentally for me at least: Completion. I love Tali's personality - her strength of conviction, selflessness, quirkyness, intelligence, resilience, shyness - she is already beautiful to me as a person (yes, I know she is a fictional character but I like to think that there are people in our world that share her traits). Being able to also see her physical face would, or so I believe, allow me to reach closure and fully settle down on cloud nine with my Shepard's relationship with her.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 04 février 2010 - 10:53 .

[The_KFD_Case]

ELOE1985 wrote...

The Venus De Milo is seen as a beautiful piece of art despite not having arms. In fact, some say the statue is only beautiful because it has no arms.
Similarly, Tali remains as great as she is without us ever seeing her face. By not showing her true face, we will always be able to imagine her as beautiful, regardless of how we would perceive beauty- something no other romancable character can stake claim to. And if Bioware never shows us her true face, I'll never be disappointed with them.

Whereas I feel the exact opposite. I will feel outright cheated if Tali's face is not revealed. I want the complete "package" for Tali and that includes knowing what the she looks like as BioWare has envisioned - not what my own vivid fantasy might conjure up.

[Xandurpein]

I was half resigned to not be able to see Tali's face early on in the game, but I admit that it was a bit of a let down to not even get a chance to see her skin. No... I don't mean "steamier" sex by that!. It would just have been nice to at the very least to have a reasonable idea of what her skin color is.

[Arquibus]

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it here. Tali DESERVES a face. Its not a matter of fulfilling someone's fantasy, or what have you. A character is someone's projection of emotion, motivation, personality, and appearance. The character has a right to be understood by anyone experiencing them, and the creator of the character has a right to unveil the character in the exact way they see them. It was like Darth Vader in Star Wars. As a villain he was represented by the cold, dark mask as a shadow of his former self. But when he returned to the man he was, he needed that face. This is in opposition to a character like, say, V from V for Vendetta because his mask did represent the man who he was throughout. This is the difference between a static and a dynamic character. Vader changes over the course of the story, while V does not. When Shepard shows his feeling for Tali, it changes her. Not in the sense of who she is, perhaps, but in the sense of replacing her mystique/aloofness with tenderness and trust. And the transference takes place fine, coming to climax in the love scene. When Shepard sees her face, there is no longer a mystery for him, as it has been replaced with affection. That is what the player should feel as well. The mystery served well, perhaps, in drawing some folks in. But the rest of the story doesn't hinge on that, because Shepard knows what he sees, and presumably he likes it.



This isn't to say I'm unhappy with how they handled it. I felt like this was the developers playing a joke on us. And I thought it was funny, in a twisted evil sort of way. They got to have their fun at our expense. Now they owe her, and us, a real face.

[Killer Irish]

kennyme2 wrote...

I completely agree with the OP, Shepard seeing Tali's face totally broke immersion for me.

It really bothered me how they implemented not seeing her face, too. It was an UGLY camera angle. They just put it right behind her head without any excuse as to why they weren't showing her face. It was just a total shutdown for me and I took it as Bioware saying, yeah your Shep can see Tali but not you. Really, I would have liked it if they hid her face a little more gracefully instead of shoving the camera behind her.

That's exactly how I felt with this...it seemed...rushed.  Heck, if they have to do a "cut-away-camera" then howabout just a close up on her eyes or her lips as she smiles.  That way it wouldn't have to have been a full reveal.  I think that could have worked.

[Killer Irish]

Elastica wrote...

I'm just grateful they added they cuddling animations, they're a nice touch. The minor clipping and face expressions don't bother me at all.

As regards Tali's face, I don't really need to see it. I like how they played it, showing it to Shepard but not the player. C'mon, people, that's what makes Tali special after all, the fact that she can seduce *you* without showing her face or a carefully engineered Miranda-style body.

I think your comment brings us to the cusp of the "Do or Do Not want to see her face fans."  This is the hard part...some of us find mystery or the "not knowing" in a relationship to be sexy and intriguing.  Some of us think it's sexy at first because it builds anticipation to the reveal.  And then of course there are people out there who don't want anything hidden in the first place.

It sucks because I think both sides have a valid point.  I really wish there was some way to meet in the middle on this!  But like I said, my main gripe is when you setup a game to revolve around you becoming the Shepard character, only to take you away from that at an emotional moment.  And to be honest, to my knowledge as I look back at my first playthrough, I think that is the first and only time they do this with the story or the camera itself.  Really everything else that is revealed to Shepard is revealed to us.

[Nozybidaj]

Killer Irish wrote...
I have read both complaints on not seeing her face and people voicing
not wanting to see her face.  I guess in my opinion this really kills
the whole idea of being able to be in a relationship with her. 
Throughout the entire game we
are made to feel like we're Shepard.  The choices we make, the things
we choose to say or do, the entire game is setup to make us feel like
we are this character.  Clearly there are moments for each of us where
we felt an emotional investment into this game.  The culmination for me
was right when Shepard was going to take Tali's mask off so we could
finally see him and Tali truly embrace.  So you can imagine my
disappointment when the camera cuts away to just show Shepard's
reaction (which didn't really even have a reaction).  This was the only
moment in the entire game where I felt like I was back to being the
player instead of the character.  And that is my entire point why you
just can't do that in a game like this.  It's fine in say the game
Halo, because Master Chief is his own character and you are just
controlling him.  So whether we see his face or not isn't a character
driven thing, it's whether the writer wants to share that with us or
not.  But in Mass Effect 2 where we are made to be the character, see
what he/she sees, choose what he/she says, pick what he/she does,
pulling away at an emotional moment doesn't just make no sense, it
screws with the players expectations of the game you built.  So in my
view, if we don't get the chance to experience everything with Tali as
the character experiences it, then she shouldn't be an option to begin
with.  So I do truly hope this gets corrected in DLC or ME3!  Thinking about it this way from a character perspective, what do you guys think?

Very much agreed.  Not showing her face was pretty lame.

[Killer Irish]

The_KFD_Case wrote...

@KillerIrish:

lol! That video clip had me laughing out loud repeatedly. Congrats to your mate.

As for not seeing Tali's face after such a MASSIVE build up is a disappointment you and I share! I recall playing "ME1" and wishing Tali was a romance option as I preferred her character over the others (though Ashley had some lovely tenderness once you got past her shell). Lo and behold! Roll on "ME2" and not only is Tali back but she is a romance option AND it promises to reveal her face! Two of my top wishes for the "ME" universe fulfilled in one fell swoop (yes, note the use of the word "fell")....Or so I thought. Just as I'm proverbially salivating in my mind's eye standing on the precipice of final revelation of Tali's visage BioWare gremlins special task group strike: TA-DAA! Surprise! No reveal of Tali's face despite a tender look from my male Paragon Shepard lead (that's the one part I disagree with you on; my male Shepard had a tender look on his face, as though he was lovingly admiring Tali's face).

It had me chuckling at BioWare's cheekiness but simultaneously I let out a low howl of mock protest. "ME2" is easily the best damn gaming experience I have ever had ("DA:O" was the best game I've played in the past 10 years until I played "ME2" - I adore BioWare's game work/art) as far as my conscious memory is concerned, and I've been gaming for about a quarter of a century (C64 days). Though this disappointment does not "ruin" the game for me I would heartily appreciate it if Tali's face is fully revealed in "ME3". Please do it BioWare; I can use my own imagination but I want to see what BioWare's interpretation of Quarian facial features looks like and barring some counter-announcement "ME3" will be the last chance we will get (possibly ever - that's still a depressing thought to me).

Hehe...I showed him your comment and he told me to tell you he says, "thanks." (I know...he is a poet with his words) 

You nailed it...I too was already interested in Tali from ME1 and was thrilled when I found out she could be a love interest choice in ME2.  So all that anticipation and build up over these two games and the wait time inbetween...*sigh*  Indeed it didn't "ruin" the game for me, but it was that one large blemish that made me say, "this game would have been perfect if not for..."

So please Bioware...please address this in ME3!!! 

[Welder0]

And I can't believe I've just spent 20 minutes perusing a thread that concerns romancing a virtual woman in a virtual world with virtually no idea of her visage.



I've only just started ME2, and other than some casual Kelly banter, I haven't done much boy - girl stuff. Apparently there are many crucial decisions to be made here.



But I think I'm doing Jack. She reminds me of one of my ex's and although that ending was tragic the ride was epic.

[Gill Kaiser]

Killer Irish wrote...

Elastica wrote...

I'm just grateful they added they cuddling animations, they're a nice touch. The minor clipping and face expressions don't bother me at all.

As regards Tali's face, I don't really need to see it. I like how they played it, showing it to Shepard but not the player. C'mon, people, that's what makes Tali special after all, the fact that she can seduce *you* without showing her face or a carefully engineered Miranda-style body.

I think your comment brings us to the cusp of the "Do or Do Not want to see her face fans."  This is the hard part...some of us find mystery or the "not knowing" in a relationship to be sexy and intriguing.  Some of us think it's sexy at first because it builds anticipation to the reveal.  And then of course there are people out there who don't want anything hidden in the first place.

It sucks because I think both sides have a valid point.  I really wish there was some way to meet in the middle on this!  But like I said, my main gripe is when you setup a game to revolve around you becoming the Shepard character, only to take you away from that at an emotional moment.  And to be honest, to my knowledge as I look back at my first playthrough, I think that is the first and only time they do this with the story or the camera itself.  Really everything else that is revealed to Shepard is revealed to us.

Basically, as a Tali fan my feelings are thus:

At the moment, Tali is my favourite character. Likability score is positive.
If Bioware show Tali's face and I don't like it, I'll be very disappointed. -score
If Bioware show Tali's face and I like it, I'll be ecstatic. +score
If Bioware don't show Tali's face, I'll be ok with it. No change.

I imagine many of us are of the same opinion. Therefore, if Bioware do show her face, they're taking a great risk, because at the moment everyone's reasonably happy. If they deem it worth the risk, that's up to them so long as they take special care in the design of Tali's face so that EVERYONE likes it.

[The Governator]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Since people were interested in Tali without ever seeing her face, letting you do so would be foolish.

And the other issue is with custom Shepards. It happens. If it bugs you, play with the default Shepaloo.

Here's the problem with revealing Tali's face:  Expectations.  Everyone has expectations and fulfilling those is not an easy task.  Given that Bioware went to the trouble of writing Tali is a romance option suggests that they know they have a winner in her personality.  If people were disappointed with how the writers/developers fashioned her appearance they may lose their appreciation for her.  In my view, unless she looked like a Rachni or a Krogan, I would not be disappointed with any feminine face they chose to give her, but I think some people expect her to be 'hawt'...and that is highly subjective.  I think her personality is so sweet that I would be happy with virtually any countenance they gave her.

[The Governator]

Gill Kaiser wrote...


Basically, as a Tali fan my feelings are thus:

At the moment, Tali is my favourite character. Likability score is positive.
If Bioware show Tali's face and I don't like it, I'll be very disappointed. -score
If Bioware show Tali's face and I like it, I'll be ecstatic. +score
If Bioware don't show Tali's face, I'll be ok with it. No change.

I imagine many of us are of the same opinion. Therefore, if Bioware do show her face, they're taking a great risk, because at the moment everyone's reasonably happy. If they deem it worth the risk, that's up to them so long as they take special care in the design of Tali's face so that EVERYONE likes it.

That's it right there.  The bold part. 

[Killer Irish]

Welder0 wrote...

And I can't believe I've just spent 20 minutes perusing a thread that concerns romancing a virtual woman in a virtual world with virtually no idea of her visage.

I've only just started ME2, and other than some casual Kelly banter, I haven't done much boy - girl stuff. Apparently there are many crucial decisions to be made here.

But I think I'm doing Jack. She reminds me of one of my ex's and although that ending was tragic the ride was epic.

Sir....I just spent the last 5 minutes rolling on the floor laughing at this post.  Not just because it's funny, but because I know exactly what you are talking about.