179 réponses à ce sujet

[Rip504]

Rip504 wrote...

I also think they should reveal. No one
can give me a solid reason as why they should not. Some greed wanting
their image to be it & only in their head? That's a little unfair to
the rest of us. No?
(If that greed doesn't like the Tali
reveal,keep the image from your imagination as your Tali. No harm
done,everybody wins.) IMO & I know it's wrong,but...it is what it
is.!.
The greedy ones do not think it is wrong to withhold the
reveal. Why is that? Because they don't want their image ruined? Well
some of us want an official image.

I guess I could Imagine Tali
resembling Karen Gillan,or Sienna Guillory exactly. Yes I like this. So
if there is no reveal,my Tali looks like a human red-head. Or Miss Jill
Valentine herself.!.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/128/index/4786509/638

Plus we have seen a Krogan female,and there are two decent hints in recent interviews. I'm still hopeful Bioware will do a great job with Tali's face(as all their other Art kicks ass.)And not let their fans down by not resolving this and leaving it open. ME3 is the end of Shepards's story. Reveal it,and if people cry and complain(like they will anyway) I say it doesn't matter as this is the end of the trilogy. Our opinions after the ending don't really matter much, as it is over.

REVEAL. People stop being greedy,and help your fellow fans enjoy Tali's face as much as you do.!.

[Omega Torsk]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

I doubt we'll ever see it. At this point Bioware can not win. There's no way they'd get away with showing her face, because anything they come up with will be ripped to shreds. Too many people have too many seperate ideals of how Tali should look.

I don't care. Those people are not Bioware! It's their universe and if they want Tali to look like a Vulcan, it's their business! All I know is that I really want to see a Quarian's official face. Bioware knows we've been patient enough! And if the whiners don't like it, they can cry moar, drink their apple juice, and go to sleep. And that's all I have to say... about that.

Modifié par Omega Torsk, 11 juin 2011 - 09:24 .

[DoNotIngest]

Omega Torsk wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

I doubt we'll ever see it. At this point Bioware can not win. There's no way they'd get away with showing her face, because anything they come up with will be ripped to shreds. Too many people have too many seperate ideals of how Tali should look.

I don't care. Those people are not Bioware! It's their universe and if they want Tali to look like a Vulcan, it's their business! All I know is that I really want to see a Quarian's official face. Bioware knows we've been patient enough! And if the whiners don't like it, they can cry moar, drink their apple juice, and go to sleep. And that's all I have to say... about that.

Yep, I'll be happy with Bioware's Tali.



What's a Vulcan?

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Does Tali have a mouth?  Or is it more like an elcor?

[Omega Torsk]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Does Tali have a mouth?  Or is it more like an elcor?

...I sincerely hope Tali has a mouth. Or else, what the heck was Shep making out with when she jumped his bones on the Normandy!?!?

[Smilietime]

In reply to the original poster:

The reason they never showed Tali's face is obvious: People just project what they want to see on it, and showing it would dissapoint everyone who wants to see it. Plain and simple.

It's like that for the same reason that Bella Swan has no personality *ahem*.

Modifié par Smilietime, 12 juin 2011 - 08:22 .

[78stonewobble]

Smilietime wrote...

In reply to the original poster:

The reason they never showed Tali's face is obvious: People just project what they want to see on it, and showing it would dissapoint everyone who wants to see it. Plain and simple.

It's like that for the same reason that Bella Swan has no personality *ahem*.

Just add a "spoiler warning" and the ability to pick mask on/off.

[Valthaur]

@78stonewobble, exactly the whole way that relationship is developed is that it's NOT about looks. If you choose Tali you're basically saying you're okay with whatever she looks like, it's her personality that attracted you - so I think the fear of ending the 'mystique' side of it is really overblown. Now, if it had been written so that Tali eventually decided that for some reason she couldn't show you her face, that would have been a little disappointing, but still understandable, because there would always have been a chance that it would just be too dangerous for her. The fact that she DID reveal her face but the player doesn't see it is the real let-down.

@Killer Irish, heh, well I just finished the game - played the end sequence in one go, and it was started off by this scene, which kind of left a feeling of disappointment in an otherwise excellently designed climax. So I found the thread by googling and didn't see how old it was at first!

I really think at this point the best thing (barring any retroactive patch of ME2) would be to have a love scene flashback cinematic from Shepherd's viewpoint the first time you see Tali (or at some other meaningful point in the game). Then the rest of the relationship can continue to develop naturally without this irritant hanging over it.

[78stonewobble]

Valthaur wrote...

@78stonewobble, exactly the whole way that relationship is developed is that it's NOT about looks. If you choose Tali you're basically saying you're okay with whatever she looks like, it's her personality that attracted you - so I think the fear of ending the 'mystique' side of it is really overblown. Now, if it had been written so that Tali eventually decided that for some reason she couldn't show you her face, that would have been a little disappointing, but still understandable, because there would always have been a chance that it would just be too dangerous for her. The fact that she DID reveal her face but the player doesn't see it is the real let-down.

Hmm would you agree to the following.

The ingame/story relationship is not about looks but the relationship contains the trust to let shephard see her face and her taking the chance with her health for... uhm... lurve.

From the players viewpoint on the relationship, allthough "not about looks" is a big part of it, there is a "reward" lack and you get disconnected from the shephard character?

[Killer Irish]

Smilietime wrote...

In reply to the original poster:

The reason they never showed Tali's face is obvious: People just project what they want to see on it, and showing it would dissapoint everyone who wants to see it. Plain and simple.

It's like that for the same reason that Bella Swan has no personality *ahem*.

You missed the entire point however to my arguement in the first place...which is understandable seeing how old this thread is

It really wouldn't have been an issue to me (showing Tali's face or not) if Shepard hadn't seen it.  I'll explain...In this type of game, in what Bioware has built, you are made/designed to feel like you are Commander Shepard.  You make all the choices; you choose your backstory, you choose what you look like, you choose where you go, what you say, how you grow stronger, everything in this game is based around YOU being Commander Shepard...Bioware has worked very hard to make the player and Shepard the same person.  Which is perfect in both a game and story telling sense; you care what happens to the character you're controlling.  As someone who has worked in both the film industry and the video game industry I admire Bioware in the highest for what they have accomplished.

My entire problem when it comes to Tali is that the "love making" scene is the ONLY scene in the entire game where we are taken away from being Shepard.  It's the only time we don't see what Shepard is seeing as the camera cuts to an ECU only on Shepard's face as Tali's face is "revealed."  That's my problem.  They could have just as easily made it where (for whatever reason) Tali couldn't take her helmet off i.e. something to do with breathing the unclean air.  But they didn't, and in doing so they went with a scene that disconnects the player from the character they're supposed to be. 

One of the main reasons a developer would do as such isn't "wanting to leave it up to the players imagination."  This can be due to making a model that is only going to be seen once.  Developers rarely do that...paying an artist for 1-2 weeks worth of work (sometimes more), on a model that will only be seen once, for 5-10 seconds just isn't good business.  It's harsh and it sucks to hear when you're so invested into a game, you want to think decisions like this are based off of the story and what's best for the player.  But I've worked on enough projects to notice when choices are made that may not be for the stories best interest, and more about timing and money.  The more I saw this scene the more it made sense...it's the only scene in the entire game that does this. 


So yeah....I want to see Tali's face.  I want Bioware to pick a base model and show us the entire Quarian race!  I truly hope that's what happens in ME3.  That with all the choices they left open ended about the Quarians going/not going to war, destroying/not detroying Legion's Geth, that all of this could lead to Tali's people being back on their home planet and possibly getting some kind of Quarian reveal.  So that's my thoughts on the subject anyways

[Rip504]

Yes Great Post^ Even with the idea of Bioware being Cheap.

Imagine when/if we set foot on the Quarian homeworld with Tali or/and Other Quarians. I would not see it as far-fetched if one of them took off their helmet and took a deep breath of air on their long lost homeworld. It would add a little something to the story and give you a since of accomplishment.!.

I don't understand why people think Bioware doesn't want to say "O hey you image is wrong" this is what the Quarians actually look like. Bioware created them. Bioware gets to decide. If you have an image in your head and are disappointed by a reveal,you have no one to blame ,but yourself.
It's not Bioware's fault. It's yours.
Stop Being Greedy. Reveal.!. And after if you are unhappy with the Quarian/Tali face reveal,you can continue to use your personal image. Stop trying to ruin it for the rest of us.

[Valthaur]

78stonewobble wrote...

Valthaur wrote...

@78stonewobble, exactly the whole way that relationship is developed is that it's NOT about looks. If you choose Tali you're basically saying you're okay with whatever she looks like, it's her personality that attracted you - so I think the fear of ending the 'mystique' side of it is really overblown. Now, if it had been written so that Tali eventually decided that for some reason she couldn't show you her face, that would have been a little disappointing, but still understandable, because there would always have been a chance that it would just be too dangerous for her. The fact that she DID reveal her face but the player doesn't see it is the real let-down.

Hmm would you agree to the following.

The ingame/story relationship is not about looks but the relationship contains the trust to let shephard see her face and her taking the chance with her health for... uhm... lurve.

From the players viewpoint on the relationship, allthough "not about looks" is a big part of it, there is a "reward" lack and you get disconnected from the shephard character?

Yeah, I think that is exactly right. Look at the dialogue for the relationship: you accept Tali without knowing what she looks like, she's wanted you but hadn't thought you would look past that, and as she realizes that you really don't want her she trusts you enough that she desperately wants to you to see her and touch her (and I agree with whoever it was said the voice actress did a good job conveying that longing) - so yes, given the way that entire relationship is written it just didn't make sense at the end.

[Killer Irish]

Rip504 wrote...

Yes Great Post^ Even with the idea of Bioware being Cheap.

  Don't get me wrong...I'm not claiming Bioware is cheap...just practical.  Let say an artist worked on a finished undressed Tali model for about 2 weeks (modeling and texturizing).  (assuming you can use the same rigging) Then that model has to be animated for the cut scene...so say another 2 weeks.  Lets say overall, for modeling, texturing, animating, and any extra programming, a total of a month.  You've paid around $5,000 dollars (possibly more) for a model that's only going to be seen once for about 10 seconds (while putting other props/models that needed to get made on the back burner).  The other thing you have to consider is; is it crucial to the story/high on the list of things that need to get done?  Clearly not.  I've worked at "AAA" game studios and understand what can and can't be made due to time constraints.  It just makes sense from a business stand point....for example: 1 model that's going to be seen for 10 seconds OR 10 props that we can use throughout the entire game.  So does it come down to money?  Yes and no....because first and foremost it comes down to time.  If they don't make their deadline THEN it comes down to a lot of money.  Money paid to the Publisher, 1st Party Publisher, Advertising, and the reserved space at retail stores IF you don't make your deadline (money can vary depending on the agreements you have with all these different companies).  This can be the main reason why stuff gets rushed at times or not done at all...ideas get thrown out or saved for DLC.  Video games have become their own worst enemy in this sense.

hehe...now, knowing all of this do I still agree on not showing Tali's face?  No.  At least not in the context that they presented the scene.  However I do think it's not only salvagable, but can have a satisfying reveal with the Quarians back on their home planet (as we were talking about) in ME3.


 This is actually one of the main reasons I'm happy they pushed back the release date for ME3.  It will give them more time to put details like this in the game that they may not have had time to put in.

[Dracotamer]

Many of us were disappointed. Hopefully we will get to see it in ME3.

[Siansonea]

Killer Irish wrote...

Smilietime wrote...

In reply to the original poster:

The reason they never showed Tali's face is obvious: People just project what they want to see on it, and showing it would dissapoint everyone who wants to see it. Plain and simple.

It's like that for the same reason that Bella Swan has no personality *ahem*.

You missed the entire point however to my arguement in the first place...which is understandable seeing how old this thread is

It really wouldn't have been an issue to me (showing Tali's face or not) if Shepard hadn't seen it.  I'll explain...In this type of game, in what Bioware has built, you are made/designed to feel like you are Commander Shepard.  You make all the choices; you choose your backstory, you choose what you look like, you choose where you go, what you say, how you grow stronger, everything in this game is based around YOU being Commander Shepard...Bioware has worked very hard to make the player and Shepard the same person.  Which is perfect in both a game and story telling sense; you care what happens to the character you're controlling.  As someone who has worked in both the film industry and the video game industry I admire Bioware in the highest for what they have accomplished.

My entire problem when it comes to Tali is that the "love making" scene is the ONLY scene in the entire game where we are taken away from being Shepard.  It's the only time we don't see what Shepard is seeing as the camera cuts to an ECU only on Shepard's face as Tali's face is "revealed."  That's my problem.  They could have just as easily made it where (for whatever reason) Tali couldn't take her helmet off i.e. something to do with breathing the unclean air.  But they didn't, and in doing so they went with a scene that disconnects the player from the character they're supposed to be. 

One of the main reasons a developer would do as such isn't "wanting to leave it up to the players imagination."  This can be due to making a model that is only going to be seen once.  Developers rarely do that...paying an artist for 1-2 weeks worth of work (sometimes more), on a model that will only be seen once, for 5-10 seconds just isn't good business.  It's harsh and it sucks to hear when you're so invested into a game, you want to think decisions like this are based off of the story and what's best for the player.  But I've worked on enough projects to notice when choices are made that may not be for the stories best interest, and more about timing and money.  The more I saw this scene the more it made sense...it's the only scene in the entire game that does this. 


So yeah....I want to see Tali's face.  I want Bioware to pick a base model and show us the entire Quarian race!  I truly hope that's what happens in ME3.  That with all the choices they left open ended about the Quarians going/not going to war, destroying/not detroying Legion's Geth, that all of this could lead to Tali's people being back on their home planet and possibly getting some kind of Quarian reveal.  So that's my thoughts on the subject anyways

It's funny, but I don't play as if "I" am Commander Shepard at all. Commander Shepard is Someone Else. Six Someone Elses, to be exact. This game would have suck for replay value if every character had to look like me (and obviously I couldn't play as ManShep) and only do what I personally would do in each situation. Bo-ring. So yeah, I definitely play Shepard from a distinctly 3rd person perspective.

[Killer Irish]

Siansonea II wrote...

It's funny, but I don't play as if "I" am Commander Shepard at all. Commander Shepard is Someone Else. Six Someone Elses, to be exact. This game would have suck for replay value if every character had to look like me (and obviously I couldn't play as ManShep) and only do what I personally would do in each situation. Bo-ring. So yeah, I definitely play Shepard from a distinctly 3rd person perspective.

And you know what?  That is completely your right to play the game as such (though' I do doubt you don't inject anything of yourself into the game).  Typically when playing a game such as this people either play to the Ego/Super Ego or they can play it more for their Id.  It sounds like you fall into the latter.  But I digress, in any event you would be very unique...these games are typically meant to craft the player into the story, hence "Roll Playing Game" or RPG.  Even though yes, they offer an escape from our everyday lives, giving way to craft someone who isn't entirely ourselves, all games in their very nature allow us to put a piece of ourselves into each game.  Where do I go?  In which order do I do things?  Who do I shoot?  Even games that are linear allow us to put a piece of ourselves into the game.  But for a Roll Playing Game, there can be no arguement what they're suppsed to be at their very nature...a way to escape reality and put myself into fiction.  This also gives way to certain expectation (either conscious or subconscious) on how the story, the camera angles, the choices the player is allowed to make, how the game itself unfolds.  These expectations change depending on what certain genre of movie we're watching or what kind of games we're playing (First Person Shooter, Point/Click Adventure, Flight Simulater, etc). 

Now I never said the player HAD to act like you and that you couldn't play as someone else (heck, most people play as a part of themselves they don't typically show outside their own head).  My point has to deal with the narrative and how a certain story unfolds in this kind of genre of game i.e. the Tali love interest.  That one camera angle choice alone is far different then any other used in the game (and I have taken the time to beat the game in a number of different ways to experience the other stories ME2 has to offer).  Say what you will about how you personally play the game.  What I'm talking about is how the overall game/scenes were constructed and how differently it played out in the "Tali love making" scene compared to the rest of the game.


Thanks for commenting and your insight Siansonea II.

[Merf4]

 If you notice when he has that intense face, tali is speaking to him, it just looks to me like he is concentrating on what she is saying. So i really don't see a point with that.

Them not showing us tali's face is like a developers joke, i swear to god they do this just to see us get pissy. 

The clipping is most likely spawned from this being like the last extra stuff they put into the game so they don't put they're 100% into it. 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Perhaps because one of the charms behind Tali's character is her mystique. Her romance is the epitome of loving someone through who they are in lieu of a combination of the aforementioned and their appearance, or simply the latter in its entirety. What is so difficult about using your imagination to create an image of Tali you find attractive? Do you not do this when reading a novel, where none of the characters have a visual representation excluding the one in our mind?

For those citing this unfair, I retort with an identical argument. What if BioWare's image is something I find unappealing or even appalling? Numerous people have complained about Miranda in some manner, while others claim she is gorgeous. I needn't even mention Dragon Age Origin, and how enormously improved Leliana is after mods. Beauty is subjective, and what someone finds enticing, another may find cringe worthy.

At this juncture Tali is better left a mystery. Leave her appearance to the creative minds of artists or your own imagination.

[Homebound]

Maleshep staring at his li on the couch. most intense scene in the game.

[78stonewobble]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Perhaps because one of the charms behind Tali's character is her mystique. Her romance is the epitome of loving someone through who they are in lieu of a combination of the aforementioned and their appearance, or simply the latter in its entirety. What is so difficult about using your imagination to create an image of Tali you find attractive? Do you not do this when reading a novel, where none of the characters have a visual representation excluding the one in our mind?

For those citing this unfair, I retort with an identical argument. What if BioWare's image is something I find unappealing or even appalling? Numerous people have complained about Miranda in some manner, while others claim she is gorgeous. I needn't even mention Dragon Age Origin, and how enormously improved Leliana is after mods. Beauty is subjective, and what someone finds enticing, another may find cringe worthy.

At this juncture Tali is better left a mystery. Leave her appearance to the creative minds of artists or your own imagination.

They're good points.

I still feel, that in the "reward" sense to the gamers, they should show her face.

You're right about that this relationship is about who they are and not what they look like. In a way I think this make it even more important that you get to see her face in the end.

IMO it's a "test" of the player. Do you keep true to the point of not having looks being important?

Personally I'm imagining Tali with kinda kangaroo looks (quite literally a kangaroos face). I don't know why but Quarian body build reminds me of kangaroos. *lol*

Getting faced (no pun intended) with the REAL Tali would in my oppinion and the challenge to my own preconceptions would IMHO be an epic moment in the story.


Regarding Miranda. She IS hot. Personal preferences aside. She is allmost the perfect embodyment of the female "ideal". This come's at a cost though, her (IMHO) not so attractive personality.

Miranda is a "match" for some people. Tali, Jack, Kasumi and even Kelly is for others. The same going for the men. Allthough I suspect there's a lack of choices there eventhough it's not something for me.

EDIT and addition.

I support a middle ground. The option at the beginning of ME3 to choose if you wanna see her faceor not. With spoiler alerts offcourse. 

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 13 juin 2011 - 10:04 .

[78stonewobble]

Double post. Sorry

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 13 juin 2011 - 10:02 .

[Seboist]

Saphra Deden wrote...

The time to show Tali's face has come and gone. The appropriate moment was when she first showed it to Shepard. Revealing it now would be cheap and wouldn't carry the same impact or gravity as it would have in ME2 during the romance.

It would have been a great moment to reveal it if she died trying to close the door in the vents during the SM. That rocket should have smashed the glass.