Janni-in-VA wrote...
I know I'm bumping this thread again, but it's a wonderfully civil thread. I've seen interesting, well-thought-out arguments. So, here's my two-cents worth.
It's interesting to note, thanks to Gaider, that Loghain didn't make up his mind to abandon Cailan until the last moment. However Loghain rationalizes this later, the fact is that he left his King and son-in-law to die on the field at the hands of Darkspawn. I also think that there's plenty of evidence to suggest that Cailan was a much shrewder man than one might think on first meeting him. I don't hold with the theory, however, that he was having an affair with Empress Celene. Part of this belief is based on logistics. Where in the world can two monarchs--highly visible people--meet secretly to have an affair? There's no mention of a visit to Orlais or the Empress's having visited Ferelden. Can you see Loghain's reaction to either of those scenarios? Historically, monarchs, presidents and other important/famous people have burned or otherwise destroyed their personal correspondence, so what survives is usually only the public/political/formal documents. Not always, of course, just usually. So, Cailan might have intended to destroy the less formal letter at a later date, but instead kept it with the other two documents so that whoever opened the chest (presumably Alistair) would know where things stood with the Orlesians and Anora's position with many of the bannorn. (I think it fairly safe to assume that Eamon wouldn't be the only one concerned about the lack of an heir after five years of marriage. Heirs are usually the first thing monarchs see to after ascending the throne, so I think it very likely that either Anora or Cailan had fertility issues.) I tend to lean toward the idea that Cailan wasn't as confident in the battle as he appeared, but whether that was a real sense that it was a lost cause or merely acknowledging the need for a back-up plan is still a point I haven't decided on. I'm tending toward the latter idea, however.
So, basically, I still see Loghain as a regicide, Howe as a slimy little bastard (that sneak attack after Teryn Cousland's forces had left was just beyond the pale), Cailan's death as a tragedy, and I don't trust Anora anymore than I do her father. She is her father's daughter. I do think that Cailan was trying to protect his half-brother because he knew who Alistair was. I don't believe Maric was foolish enough to hide another possible contender for the throne from Cailan. I'm not saying Alistair would have tried to take it for himself, but he's certainly a figure around whom a conspiracy/rebellion could be built. I do think that Cailan was trying to fill some very big boots indeed. He truly wanted to prove himself a worthy son and successor to King Maric. In a time when political differences might very well be settled on the battlefield, Cailan's seeing Ostagar as a chance to prove himself makes sense.
Some of the other ideas presented here I'll have to think about a while longer. Did Duncan go to the Chantry specifically to recruit Alistair? Why did Eamon send Alistair to the Chantry rather than to Bann Teagan? Was it to make sure that Alistair (as a full Templar) would never be a serious contender for the throne, or was it the safest place he could think of to stash Alistair? Obviously, Alistair's illegitimate status would affect whether or not the Bannorn would accept him, which is why Eamon was sponsoring him, so to speak. Would Alistair have had a chance at the throne even if Cailan had officially made him his heir? And isn't it Alistair's bastardy that keeps Cailan from so doing?
Layers and layers--it's so much fun to speculate. 
This is pretty much exactly how I see it, with your first couple paragraphs being what I believe to be the case, and the points in the last being items on which it's fun to speculate, but are more problematic in that there's no real evidence to back up any of the suppositions. Really, only Eamon (and Mr. Gaider
knows for sure.
I tend to believe that Eamon was trying to make Alistair an untenable candidate for the throne by giving him to the chantry, and remove the threat to Cailan, that Duncan choosing Alistair wasn't part of a plan, but says more about the awesomeness of the Calenhad bloodline
, and that while Cailan may not initially have planned to make Alistair his heir, it was looking like a pretty good plan what with the increased pressure to set Anora aside, something he didn't want to do. Even if Cailan hadn't actually made a decision about that, it would have been prudent to keep Alistair out of the battle. Without more evidence, we'll never know, though.
Malanek999 wrote...
errant_knight wrote...
melkathi wrote...
I got a screenshot of the sentence, so noone needs to remember stuff
link:
http://img208.images...10020403511.jpg
Keeping Loghain at bay... I hadn't really considered what that might mean, especially in relation to Duncan. I assumed it referred to complaint about the idea of Orlesians crossing the border, and the Grey Wardens leading the battle, but...hmmm.... What did Loghain want from Duncan?
I haven't read this entire thread. I wouldn't read too much into this. Loghain didn't like the grey wardens. "Keeping Loghain at bay" most likely referred to his attempts to convince Cailan that the grey wardens were not needed nor even wanted. Duncan would not have wanted Loghain to convince the king to that way of thinking.
Heh, that was a quote from early days in the discussion. I think you're probably right to an extent, but there must have been a little more to it than that, as there was clearly no danger of Cailan being persuaded against the wardens, although Loghain didn't know just how much Cailan disagreed with him, having gone to the trouble to negotiate the treaties. Duncan may not have known, either.
Modifié par errant_knight, 23 mars 2010 - 10:18 .
Retour en haut
