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Murky waters at Ostagar (or what did Cailan know that we don't?)


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#501
tool_bot

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Sarah1281 wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

I didn't say the situation would be better. In fact, I know it'd be much worse for everyone. I just wouldn't feel all that bad for Ferelden.

Why? Because you didn't like the nobles? 


Partly. Honestly I couldn't tell you. I just don't find the fate of this nation any more troublesome then the political fate of that nation. Empires and nations get swallowed up all the time by other powers and each and everytime the two cultures clash, people die and everyone's in a much worse place then they were before because of hunger, unemployment, famine, death ect. Ferelden may be the more civilized of the two but neither seems important enough to save from something that's just part of running a country.

The Blight is another story.

#502
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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

You make the ogre sound like a patriot.


I felt bad killing him. Or his zombie body, whatever it was.


I must say, darkspawn bodies preserve quiet well. How long was he out there? Like a year?

#503
Giggles_Manically

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tool_bot wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

I didn't say the situation would be better. In fact, I know it'd be much worse for everyone. I just wouldn't feel all that bad for Ferelden.

Why? Because you didn't like the nobles? 


Partly. Honestly I couldn't tell you. I just don't find the fate of this nation any more troublesome then the political fate of that nation. Empires and nations get swallowed up all the time by other powers and each and everytime the two cultures clash, people die and everyone's in a much worse place then they were before because of hunger, unemployment, famine, death ect. Ferelden may be the more civilized of the two but neither seems important enough to save from something that's just part of running a country.

The Blight is another story.

So you dont even care that Ferelden would be devestated and conquered... all because it happens to other people?
:unsure:

#504
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Giggles_Manically wrote...
So you dont even care that Ferelden would be devestated and conquered... all because it happens to other people?
:unsure:


To other 'nations' but for the most part, yes. It's like death, inevitable and all you can do is hope that it won't suck to much.

#505
Giggles_Manically

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tool_bot wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
So you dont even care that Ferelden would be devestated and conquered... all because it happens to other people?
:unsure:


To other 'nations' but for the most part, yes. It's like death, inevitable and all you can do is hope that it won't suck to much.

No its not.
Nations and Empires dont ALWAYS fall apart to other ones.
If I saw an army coming to destroy my country I would fight like hell to stop them, not just bend over and say ah well cant fight the inevitable. 

#506
TJPags

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Not everyone is that caught up in the concerns of Ferelden to the exclusion of every other nation.

Orlais must be doing something right, since the government hasn't collapsed, and they don't seem economically unstable in any way.

As for nobles being so opposed to it, remember, there were plenty of nobles - see, Rendon Howe's dad, as an example - who didn't seem to mind the occupation so much.  With certain incentives, I wouldn't be surprised to find plenty more.

#507
tool_bot

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

tool_bot wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...
So you dont even care that Ferelden would be devestated and conquered... all because it happens to other people?
:unsure:


To other 'nations' but for the most part, yes. It's like death, inevitable and all you can do is hope that it won't suck to much.

No its not.
Nations and Empires dont ALWAYS fall apart to other ones.
If I saw an army coming to destroy my country I would fight like hell to stop them, not just bend over and say ah well cant fight the inevitable. 


That's your country and your way of life being destroyed. It makes perfect sense for you to fight to preserve it. It's precious to you. It's your hometown, your school, that bodega you used to spend afternoons running errands at. Of course you should mourn losing that and I never said you shouldn't. Nor did I say you shouldn't fight for it.

#508
Riona45

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TJPags wrote...

As for nobles being so opposed to it, remember, there were plenty of nobles - see, Rendon Howe's dad, as an example - who didn't seem to mind the occupation so much.


Actually he was a heroic man who went off to be a Grey Warden...Image IPB

Just to clarify, my comments from before shouldn't be taken to mean that I, the player, am concerned about Ferelden to the exclusion of the other fictional nations of Thedas.  I'm just saying that if a person (within the setting) would prefer that Ferelden remain an independent nation, they would be suspicious of a Cailan/Celene marriage if they were smart.  Of course people can be bribed and such, but in that case they probably weren't too passionate about Ferelden's independence in the first place.

Modifié par Riona45, 17 octobre 2010 - 03:57 .


#509
TJPags

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Riona45 wrote...

TJPags wrote...

As for nobles being so opposed to it, remember, there were plenty of nobles - see, Rendon Howe's dad, as an example - who didn't seem to mind the occupation so much.


Actually he was a heroic man who went off to be a Grey Warden...Image IPB

Just to clarify, my comments from before shouldn't be taken to mean that I, the player, am concerned about Ferelden to the exclusion of the other fictional nations of Thedas.  I'm just saying that if a person (within the setting) would prefer that Ferelden remain an independent nation, they would be suspicious of a Cailan/Celene marriage if they were smart.  Of course people can be bribed and such, but in that case they probably weren't too passionate about Ferelden's independence in the first place.


Well, someone in Nate's family did, but it's somewhat unclear who:


The Howes of Amaranthine are one of the oldest noble families in Ferelden. Their lineage traces to the time of Calenhad, when Elias Howe was one of the first freeholders to follow Calenhad.

During the occupation, Arl Tarleton Howe, Rendon Howe's father, threw his lot in with the Orlesians. After several bitter battles with rebels, the town of Harper's Ford--an outpost governed by Tarleton Howe--fell to the Couslands of Highever. Tarleton hanged.

Rendon brought the Howe family over to the side of Maric Theirin and Loghain Mac Tir's rebellion. Rendon's bravery at the battle of White River, fighting alongside Bryce Cousland, earned back his family's honour. When King Maric took the throne in free Ferelden, Rendon Howe was decorated for his service.

--From Annals of Norther Ferelden, by Brother Bedine, Chantry scholar
Retrieved from "http://dragonage.wik..._of_Amaranthine"

As for the other point, yes, some people would be.  It's unclear to me how many, since there were some - and I'm not sure what percentage - who didn't care about the earlier invasion.  I'm sure some would look simply to the economic advantages of the marriage and be okay with it.

#510
Riona45

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TJPags wrote...
Well, someone in Nate's family did, but it's somewhat unclear who...


...Well yeah, that was kind of my point.  I was sorta-kinda joking, hence the emoticon.  I have my own preference, but I wasn't going to argue the point.

#511
errant_knight

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Time for someone to bring this back to the topic in some way.... ;)

#512
Sarah1281

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@TJPags: The tutor in the HN origin tells you that Tarleton was nearly ninety when he was hung thirty years ago (when Rendon would be in his twenties/thirties). I think it's likely that, regardless of what the codex says, Tarleton was Padric's father and when Padric ditched Ferelden to be a Warden, his son Rendon was the new heir.

#513
Addai

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

You make the ogre sound like a patriot.


I felt bad killing him. Or his zombie body, whatever it was.

I do hope you're kidding.

#514
Giggles_Manically

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Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

You make the ogre sound like a patriot.


I felt bad killing him. Or his zombie body, whatever it was.

I do hope you're kidding.

I am not.

I got some amusement out of watching the Ogre and Cailan, imitating an angry fat man at Mcdonalds and a ketchup packet. 

#515
KnightofPhoenix

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Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

You make the ogre sound like a patriot.


I felt bad killing him. Or his zombie body, whatever it was.

I do hope you're kidding.


Obviously :)

Though I did enjoy us having the option to throw Cailan's body to the wolves. I didn't enjoy the act itself, just that it was an option available and one I took without hesitation.

#516
tool_bot

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

You make the ogre sound like a patriot.


I felt bad killing him. Or his zombie body, whatever it was.

I do hope you're kidding.


Obviously :)

Though I did enjoy us having the option to throw Cailan's body to the wolves. I didn't enjoy the act itself, just that it was an option available and one I took without hesitation.


Wait, you actually see him get eaten by wolves? :blink:

Ok, BioWare, you give me that but not Jowan as a party member? Gah!

#517
KnightofPhoenix

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tool_bot wrote...
Wait, you actually see him get eaten by wolves? :blink:


No, you just pull him down and leave him. And hope for the wolves to come.

#518
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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

tool_bot wrote...
Wait, you actually see him get eaten by wolves? :blink:


No, you just pull him down and leave him. And hope for the wolves to come.


Oh... well that's... well I don't know what that is exactly. I hated that dlc. 

#519
errant_knight

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Come on guys. Go start another thread if this is where you want to go. Or use a different one.

#520
Giggles_Manically

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You know we should make an I hate Cailan thread one of these days.

#521
KnightofPhoenix

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

You know we should make an I hate Cailan thread one of these days.


He is not worth it.

#522
tool_bot

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errant_knight wrote...

Come on guys. Go start another thread if this is where you want to go. Or use a different one.


Sorry. Not sure how to steer myself on topic so I'll just leave untl I can.

#523
errant_knight

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tool_bot wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Come on guys. Go start another thread if this is where you want to go. Or use a different one.


Sorry. Not sure how to steer myself on topic so I'll just leave untl I can.


I appreciate that, thanks. (and I'm not being snarky, I really do.)
Giggles, KoP, please do the same unless you can discuss the topic without character bashing....