171 réponses à ce sujet

[Elwoodw]

I agree, and if the black option is selected you should get a +2 "size bonus" for the romance aspects.

[thelonghop]

[cipher86]

This entire topic is hilarious.  Seriously, thank you all.

[thelonghop]

Modifié par thelonghop, 06 novembre 2009 - 05:23 .

[Cronar_Konstantinov]

yet you can make a black hobbit in eq2....

[showergel]

Games like this are always going to be slightly skewed looks wise to the caucasian side. The issue is that the background of high fantasy is in itself an amalgam of medieval european history and ancient myths about magic, wizards and dragons. Very little of this fantasy history, if you will, involves people from continents other than europe. I myself am Indian, but when playing a game like this, am quite happy to forget about race and whatnot and step completely into a fantasy world

[Valmy]

elkston wrote...
Yeah, but most fantasy worlds treat people of color like they don't even exist.  And when they do they are always the "bad" guys. (Dark Elves).

Western Fantasy worlds are based on medieval Europe.  Sometimes they show up though like the Redguards in the Elder's Scolls or the different fantasy nations in Dungeons and Dragons.  I think Ferelden just happens to be a British sorta country and there are nations of people of color in Thedas and we will be able to see them later.

Dark Elves are people of color now?  Are Orcs people of color to because they are green?

[Valfrekr]

 It's funny that this is an issue. I'm a short stock black man in RL. I favor a Fantasy Dwarf in RL. My first character I rolled was a white mage, with grey hair and a long grey beard. I made a Dwarf next, attempting to have him look something like me. Although his skin isn't as dark as mine, I sucked it up and began playing. When you over think these things, you wont give yourself the chance to enjoy the game. Remember, it's only a game, try not to take things so seriously. 

[elkston]

andyr1986 wrote...

I know we have no measurable athletic ability but what wrong with role-playing a white person?

Nothing. I've done it plenty of times.  But when I'm given the choice to create a black character from scratch, I will.

And BTW, some of us (like me) can't dance worth ****.

Modifié par elkston, 06 novembre 2009 - 06:05 .

[xDxRxAxKxAxNx]

I was somewhat disappointed in that unlike Baldurs Gate,  the Drow Elf race was NOT included.
And since Black is a skin color NOT included, you cant even make a character LOOK like a Drow Elf.
Other than that, I LOVE THIS GAME!~

[elkston]

ByblosHex wrote...

Actually your character's skin tone does not restrict your hair choices. That's a self imposed restriction, so you should probably direct your complaints towards the closest mirror.

You're right, it doesn't. But how many black people do you know with straight hair?

[xDxRxAxKxAxNx]

Valmy wrote...

elkston wrote...
Yeah, but most fantasy worlds treat people of color like they don't even exist.  And when they do they are always the "bad" guys. (Dark Elves).

Western Fantasy worlds are based on medieval Europe.  Sometimes they show up though like the Redguards in the Elder's Scolls or the different fantasy nations in Dungeons and Dragons.  I think Ferelden just happens to be a British sorta country and there are nations of people of color in Thedas and we will be able to see them later.

Dark Elves are people of color now?  Are Orcs people of color to because they are green?

Dark Elves have Black skin color and snow White hair, as Drizzt has, who is the most famous of the Dark Elves, There is a notable Drow named JarlAxle who shaves his head Bald and wears a big brimmed hat with large bird feathers poking out of the hat band. 

[Argoyne]

You can create a variety of characters but the origin story sticks to the lore, the human nobles are white as the setting would suggest, and its possible to make a dwarf commoner character without the tattoo that should brand them so its more of allowing you to make whatever character, you could make a character that looks older than flemeth thats addressed as pup and little brother/sister.



I would agree on a lack of specifics for black character design you could say its the setting, though obviously they chose that, the corn rows are sten's hairstyle so you could argue that its more a case of what assets had the most utility. Mayhap the next DA game will be set in another place and caucasians will be in the minority and there will be more selection.

[Maddyn Malweed]

ieaticecream wrote...

who wants to be ugly?

What's that suppose to mean?

[Dunii Lo'Cerlyn]

Check it out people, I could care less if there wasn't a SINGLE black character in the game. I'm used to that in video games. However, I am used making dark skinned characters (and not really dark skin... just brown) in any game where I've ever used a character creator. I can't think of a single character creation utility in any game that did not give me plenty of options for skin color. Call me spoiled.



If I make my character black, I don't want that reflected in game by making characters related to my character black. What I want is, when I see my character on screen, for his skin to be brown so I can think, "There I go totally kicking ass." That's not asking for much. I'm not asking for extra dialogue options, I just asking for the slider to go a little bit farther to the right and have a brown color and not this weird shade of red.



I shouldn't have to spend an extra hour tweaking it to get something that, if adjusting the settings on my screen or game, may or may not look like it might be brown skin if I maybe squint my eyes and then possibly look at my TV from a different angle. It's not like you can actually see any of the details of your characters while playing. The one detail you see very clearly is your skin color and I want MY character to be ME. I want to be the only black guy in Dragon Age, I don't care. I just want to be in the game playing me and making the decisions I would make if I was in it.



My Commander Shephard looked nothing like me, but the skin was brown and that was enough for me to look at the screen and say, "Yeah, that could be me. I'm the one saving the galaxy." And that makes the game THAT much better. If I wanted to play a game where I couldn't relate to the character I was playing, I'd play a first person shooter. I'd play a platformer. I'd play Tetris. But when I'm playing a role-playing game (and I don't mean any J-RPG) where I am given the option to create MY character, then I expect to have the option to create MY character how I want him. Especially considering since Bioware has ALWAYS gave that option as far as I can remember. Bioware games have always been my favorite since the first time I ever played Baldur's Gate.



I just never expected to get into the character creator and be hassled. Honestly, at first I thought just maybe elves couldn't have brown skin, so I went to the human and looked if they had the option. Then I came online, posted, and made my red headed Brad Pitt look alike elf. LIke I said, I should have to put extra effort into making brown-ish skin while everybody else can say, "I can see that being me," just by picking a random preset.



If the game said, "Here, this is your character. He's white, enjoy." I'd enjoy. I prefer playing as Chris over Sheva in Resident Evil, I LOVED playing as Marcus Fenix in Gears of War. Fable 2 doesn't even give you the option, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest (except that game sucked). But when the game says, "Here, this is the character creator. It's very detailed. Knock yourself out,' then I expect a little more.



How would all the women feel if they heard so much about this game, but when entering the character creator they only had the option for male characters? When women pick up a Bioware game, they KNOW they get the option to create a woman. They may later create a male character to see the difference in gameplay, but they KNOW they have the option for a female character. When I pick up a Bioware game, I thought I always had the option for brown skin. Guess I was wrong.



Geez, maybe I should just start playing those boring J-RPGs again. I liked Squall in FFVIII....

[elkston]

thelonghop wrote...

LOL. Dude, that is almost EXACTLY how my character looks (he has short hair, though).

[MortalFoil]

vyvexthorne wrote...




It takes a bit of work but you can do it.  You just have to concentrate on the basic face shape.  Hair is another matter entirely.. they seem to dislike curly hair in most games that have some face gen.  All I know is these mideval type realms must have discovered hair relaxer at an early stage of evolution.

I think issue there is that curly hair must be really hard to model and have it look natural.

[TurokDarkstar]

How would all the women feel if they heard so much about this game, but when entering the character creator they only had the option for male characters?

Actually, that would probably infuriate the male demograph more than the female demograph.

[elkston]

Blind Ninja wrote...



If the game said, "Here, this is your character. He's white, enjoy." I'd enjoy. I prefer playing as Chris over Sheva in Resident Evil, I LOVED playing as Marcus Fenix in Gears of War. Fable 2 doesn't even give you the option, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest (except that game sucked). But when the game says, "Here, this is the character creator. It's very detailed. Knock yourself out,' then I expect a little more.

Yes.  This is exactly my stance.  I've played CRPGs for years ... since the 80s.  When given no choice in the matter I"ve been happy to play women, white guys, etc.  Hell, one of my favorite series is the Gothic games where you HAVE to play a SET caucasian character.  I've got no problem getting lost in a game if it is good enough.

I'm just saying that Bioware (& Bethesda) has always been pretty good at giving us ample choices respect to character creation.  And that this time, they skimped somewhat on the creation of black characters. Not toally -- just a bit.  It's not a HUGE deal.  Like BlindNinja I am deep into the game now, having left this issue behind.

There is no need for people to get defensive and reflexively think we are trying to play the "race card".  Just ease up a bit and TRY to see something from a different perspective.

MortalFoil writes

I think issue there is that curly hair must be really hard to model and have it look natural.

Yeah. I get that there are probably some technical hurdles that must be considered.  This has to be weighed in with other priorities in development.

Modifié par elkston, 06 novembre 2009 - 07:09 .

[Maddyn Malweed]

Valmy wrote...

elkston wrote...
Yeah, but most fantasy worlds treat people of color like they don't even exist.  And when they do they are always the "bad" guys. (Dark Elves).

Western Fantasy worlds are based on medieval Europe.  Sometimes they show up though like the Redguards in the Elder's Scolls or the different fantasy nations in Dungeons and Dragons.  I think Ferelden just happens to be a British sorta country and there are nations of people of color in Thedas and we will be able to see them later.

Dark Elves are people of color now?  Are Orcs people of color to because they are green?

You really need to do your home work if you think their were not any blacks people in medieval Europe,most of southern Europe was control by black moors for over 800 years and many blacks have been in Europe for 1000s of years.

Blacks people have been coming here for 1000s of years,some while serving in the Roman army,yes they were part of the invading force in Britain along with the first black Roman emperor:Septimius Severus.

Studies have even shown through DNA that some of the population living near Hadrian wall still have black DNA dating from this time.

You really think that the first humans to populate the entire world didn't pass through Europe on many occasions.

Eye witness accounts describe the moors as black, not Arabs like the history teacher like to suggests.Did you know that Beethoven was a half black moor,all the writings of that time and kings he played to describe him as being black with a flat nose and woolly hair.


Moorish colonization of west southern Europe in 711 AD was the last and greatest attempt by Black African peoples to save Africa from Germanic invasion. The master plan was designed to create African social institution to civilize the backward lawless warring Germanic tribes destroying what was left of the Western Roman Empire.

This political move was made by African peoples in order to contain the rising white barbaric racism caused by the collapse of the Roman political economy.

African people attempted via Carthage a limited African centric military containment of the Germanic problem and failed. Following Rome’s refusal to surrender after the defeat by General Hannibal over 85, 000 Roman troops at the battle of Cannae, in Apulia on the Adriatic coast, many African leaders clearly understood that direct African colonization of southern Europe and Rome was the only civilized solution to the Germanic culture problem.

In 711 the final solution to the Germanic hordes was launched in western Spain and then Western Europe.

The Catholic Church, western universities and American public schools have led a 2000 year institutional historical campaign to hide the critical importance of the African Moors attempt to civilize western Europe.

Even the official and unofficial Vatican encyclopedia of the Vatican today continue to mount ruthless campaigns to maintain the racist myth of misinformation and disinformation about the Black Moors and their critical role in Europe history. The Catholic Church suppresses how close to destruction the Catholic doctrine comes by the Moorish transformation of European spirituality.

The truth is that the Moorish faith, not the Catholic Church saved Europe from the Dark Age banality. The very notion of European humanism is framed around Moorish led enlightenment.

Daily washing of the human body was a sin in Catholic Europe before the introduction of African faith and social morality by the Moors in 711 AD.

The real truth about the critical contribution Black Africans made to the early European Renaissance remains one of the most protected and guarded secrets of western civilization.

It’s easier to argue that Black Africans built the great pyramids, than to inform most Black and white educators that Plato is a direct gift of African intellectuals to Europe.

The original books and faculty of Oxford were imported from Moors in Spain. So what's the deal about keeping the truth about the real history of Moors a Vatican state secret. The best way to control a people is to control their understanding of their own history.

In the case of Black people of the Americas the Vatican and public school have consciously robbed them of their Moorish decadency.

The primary objective of the Vatican robbery is to brainwash African Americans into thinking that they were only passive slave actors in the history of Europe.

Africans designed, built and staffed the universities with students and professors, but were not the creators of the Europe Renaissance.

The last thing you do to a people you helped enslave is to become empowered by the true of their suppressed history that education breaks the chains of illusions you have in their minds. African faith and moral almost destroyed the Catholic doctrine during the dark ages.

The Vatican is not trying to go a second round with African faith. Telling the true story about the Moors role in European development is revealing those destructive effects of the Catholic Church’s Inquisition.

The people who suffered the most from the Inquisition in Spain were the Moors and the white pro-African defenders of Moorish Spain.

The fact that most so-called African American and Latin American studies continue to blackout or obfuscated the fact that Black African led Europe Renaissances is one of the greatest intellectual crimes perpetrated against both Black and white people. America Blacks remain ignorant to the fact the greatest castles in Europe were designed, built and lived in by Black Africans in Moorish Spain. Leonardo De Vinci, the greatest artist in European history made money by improving castle fortification based on his extensive documented studies of Moorish castle walls.

The great Moorish navies in the western Mediterranean Sea were designed, built and manned by Africa sailors. Without the play Othello, written by William Shakespeare, about a Moorish naval Admiral, most North America blacks would not know that African navies once ruled the western Mediterranean Sea.

From naval bases in Spain, southern France, Corsica, Sicily and North Africa Moorish naval forces controlled the Western Mediterranean. Major Italian trade city of Palermo, Naples, Pisa, Genoa and even Rome came under routine Moorish attacks and landings. For the first, since Hannibal, Moorish African naval forces controlled the western Mediterranean. The Moorish naval defenses were centered on control of Sicily.

Black Moors fathered the European Renaissance

African peoples where directly responsible for the early European Renaissance in what is now called Spain (Iberia).

The spread of knowledge of modern mathematics and science came directly from the Black African Moors to other Black Moors in Spain and then the white Iberian, Germanic and Roman populations of the rest of Europe. The African Moors wrote the books, built and staffed the universities, designed and lead the construction of the new or expanded cities. The very notion of universities and high education was an African creation exported to Europe.

The foundation of the intellectual and technological hegemony that Western Europe and the United States enjoy today comes from the failed attempt of Black Africa to save Europe from the Northern Germanic hordes.

In addition, many ideas and principles that were developed by Isaac Newton came from Islamic scientific concepts he got from Black Moors in the first universities in Europe in Moorish Spain.

The universities in Toledo, Cordoba, Seville and Granada were created by Black Moors as centers of learning for whites, Blacks, Jews and Christians, to develop the missing class of educated European who could assist the Africans in re-starting the western European economy.

Moors shared the newest improvements in science with their subject white populations hoping it would lead to a better understanding of medicine as well as industrial development, which was a key science that was explored by the Muslims, Jews and Christians.

The Sudan trade nurtured European cities back from the Dark Age

The most important economic region of the Moors in the western Mediterranean was the western Sudan. Trade from the Ghana region was supporting the economic recovery of North Africa, southwestern Europe and the reemerging Italian city-states. Gold formed the bases for balancing all trade in the western Mediterranean economy. African Moors and their Jewish trade agents could have made much more profits from Sudanese trade.

The Western European and North American historians still have not done justice to the influence of the Black Moors on the historical development of Europe.

Western writers have given little prominence to Islamic' scientific and intellectual contributions to the development of Western European culture following the collapse of the Roman Empire and the rise of the dark ages. But the fact is the Black Moors carried the torch of science and thought to Western Europe in an age when no other civilization thought enough of Germanic people to do so.

Following the fall of the Great Roman Empire, learning was regarded in most of Western Europe as heresy, and the Eastern Christian Church persecuted all scientists.

Germanic and Roman thinkers fleeing from persecution, found no refuge but the Islamic empire, which took them in and acquired from them the scientific heritage of the time.

The Black Moors of Spain, who endeavored to ensure for Germanic thinkers a congenial atmosphere in which to work and to develop learning, gave them a great deal of veneration and respect. That was the beginning of a universal cultural revolution which enlightened the ancient world, and which the West later embraced, inheriting from the Black Moors their scientific and intellectual achievements.

Black Moors Dark Age Marshall economic recovery plan

The successful African colonization and transformation of southwestern Europe was the conscious labor of African and Afro-Iberian peoples. This daring Dark Age Marshall economic recovery plan was under taken at great cost to the societies of Northwestern Africa and the development North/South trade with Ghana, Mail and Songhai economies.

The Black Moors from Africa went into Western Europe and there laid the foundations of a new Africa style urban civilization. Old cities were rebuilt and expanded. Where there were no cities, new cities were raised from the ground. Agriculture was revolutionized and became the pillar of African Spain urban society. It is said that in Moorish Spain, farmers were more prosperous and had a greater yield of crops than most other Islamic countries. These farmers were the most advanced for the Medieval Times all around the world.

African Western Europe was described throughout the Arab world as the countries of rich farmland as a glorious garden of terraced hills where every acre of suitable land was tilled. It seems that Moorish Spain reached its peak in the 10th century when the majority of the land was fertile and it contained multiple rivers. The advancement of techniques for cultivation methods, the introduction of new crops, the improved preservation of fruits and vegetables, and the use of fertilizers all lead to the prosperity and happiness of the people that lived in these areas, as well as the people that learned from these methods, and raised their standards of living as a result.

Roads were improved or built. Ports, hospitals, manufacturing and hospitals and African urban culture were created. Every single aspect of the Italian renaissance and the Germanic manufacturing has their beginning in Moorish Western Europe. African know-how, science and labor raised the great urban cultural centers and universities of Europe.

The first 200 years of African Colonization of Europe

After two centuries of African colonization and development Cordoba, then the administrative capital of Moorish Iberia, could boast of a population of some 500,000, compared to about 38,000 in Paris 50,000 in Rome, down from a 1,000,000 before the collapse of the Roman Empire in the fifth century. The city had 700 mosques, 60,000 palaces and 70 libraries-one reportedly housing 500,000 manuscripts employing a staff of researchers, illuminators and bookbinders. Cordoba also had 900 public baths, Europe’s first streetlights and five miles outside the city, the caliph residence, Madinat al-Zahra. A complex of marble, stucco, ivory, and onyx, Madinat al-Zahra took forty years of restoration, begun in the early years of the century, is still under way. African and Spanish Moors would build over 12,000 cities, towns and villages in Iberia between 711AD and 1492 AD.

Cordoba was one of five (Toledo, Seville and Granada) major industrial military hubs of the Moorish front line defense of southwest Europe, shielding the African homeland from the Germanic hordes overrunning Northern and Central Europe. These frontward cities were also part of the most advanced communication network outside of China. African Spain was a regional communication hub interconnected to the Western Mediterranean. A Moorish network linked other Arab manufacturing cities spanning the whole of Africa to Baghdad and Mecca, i.e. Cetua, Fez, Marrakish, Kairouan, Tunis, Tripoli, Palermo and Cairo.

In the Sudan, the network was hubbed around Sijimasa, Awdagost Timbuktu, Jenne, Gao, Kano, Karem, Bornue, and Zaria. This Mediterranean communication network was connected, via Baghdad to other networks in the Middle East, East Central Europe, India and China. Moors and Jews, were reading the same data or books as Muslims in Shanghai about the latest development in Cannon technology, production and pricing.

This powerful mission critical communication network was the difference of remaining in power, taking power or doing a business deal. Many non-Muslim rulers, like the Songhi leadership was forced to use Moorish agents and communication to control many parts of their growing empire.

The Islamic communication network was based on the first every use of paper based international communication networks outside China. Using paper as emails and books as files—transporting information pickets by sea shipping and overland travel as their high speed Internet allowed major new amount of critical data to pass back and forth between city-states.

Timbuktu node point on the Moorish informational highway

Timbuktu and other western Sudanese centers where not only able to keep up with the latest intellectual and technologies, but in some cases, were far more advanced than other nodes because of the commercial position of the Sudanese cities between Cordoba and Fez and Cairo. The world famous Jewish Mediterranean communication network was nothing more than a sub-unit of the Islamic main network.

The Jewish component of the Islamic Internet allows major penetration of the Germanic military networks and the Italian commercial trading networks. Jewish operatives were positioned in every major trade city in both the Christian and Islamic worlds. The Jews were the first to leverage information between the Christians and the Muslims. Later the Italians and the Germans (i.e. the Medici and Fuggers) would penetrate Islamic commercial and military intelligence using the same network. The best know case is the hunt for Sudanese gold. The map of Mali was developed using the combined intelligence of Iberian, Jewish, Italian and African intelligence networks.

Economic gain of expanding North/South internal Western African trade and development was put aside for strategic political/military plan of stopping the Germanic hordes. The immediate threat to the whole western Mediterranean region was the Germanic tribes moving down from Northern Europe toward the rich Italian cities and Moorish Africa.

Moorish traders were following the political collapse of Roman rule in North Europe and understood the immediate potential threat posed from the Germanic hordes. After the experience of the destruction in North Africa and Spain by the Vandals it was clear to the African leadership that Rome and the western Roman empire were too weak to address the growing threat. The Western Roman Empire would have to be consolidated under African rule and the economy re-started and developed in the region.

Iberia and southern France were just phase one of a five phase plan to Africanize all of Western and Northern Europe under direct Moorish control and integration into the greater Sudan regional political economy.

In order to hide this simple truth from the world and particularly Africans and people of African descent—western historians and most Islamic historical reporting have tried to compartmentalize and obfuscate or otherwise destroy the massive historical contribution of Black Africans to the development of western European civilization in Spain.

With a population never more than 15 percent of 8 million people in Moorish Spain, the Black Moors built the most advanced culture, government and military defense in Europe. The history of the Moors is a critical missing link in history of Black in the Americas and Europe.

The other truth kept from the modern history about the Moors is the fact that they created and commanded a mostly white military force in south France, Iberia and Sicily that fought for over 700 years side by side with Black Africans defending Black Moorish Spain, Northwest Africa and the African motherland from Germanic hordes overrunning southern Europe. The contribution of these nameless white defenders of Africanized Iberia and Africa has been blackout of the history record.

Most white histories of the Moors in Europe never answer why the Moors invested so much to civilize one of the poorest sub-sections of Europe and its people?

Afrocentric view of the threat to Africa of the Dark ages

Many Western Europe and African cities were destroyed and depopulated by the northern Germanic hordes. Following the collapse of the western Roman slave economy, Roman rule and government imploded on itself. The Roman agriculture economy collapsed and millions of west European peoples were starving. The Great Northern Roman army disappeared. Civil government and commerce stopped functioning. The Roman roads connecting the urban centers of the Western Empire were unprotected. Lawlessness rules the empire outside the larger cities.

Many northern cities were burned to the grounds by Germanic armed hordes, other were forcibly depopulated and abandoned. The Church reinvented itself as the "Imperium Romanum"to run the empire with the Pope as its emperor. The western European Germanic tribes were emerging into potentially powerful confederations to over run southwest Europe, Italy and Northwest Africa. The Vatican and North Italy was under direct military pressure from the rising Moorish city-states in North African. The Vatican was positioning the Germanic tribes to take Iberia and potentially return to Northern Africa into order to control the southern western European region.

Iberia the gateway to Africa

The political situation in Iberia and North Africa was a free of all. The Vatican had lost political control to the point that Germanic, Hispano-Roman, and Jewish influences were fighting for the political upper hand. The Visigothic kings were so weaken that the Church took a caretaker role over the region leaving the door open for the next wave of Germanic tribe to move in. The sacking of Rome by the Gaiseric troops and the defeat in 533 of the Vandals and the weaken state of the Visigothic left Africa open to the rising power of the Germanic Franks moving into southern Gaul and northern Spain, posed to take the Roderick kingdom in the name of the Vatican.

Having just consolidated North Africa, the African armies proactively strike the Roderick Visigoths. The immediate goal was introduction of African force to start to consolidate the political economy of the Iberian Peninsula. When the Franks failed to come to the Visigothic armies rescues, the Visigothic military myth disappeared and the peninsula’s defenses collapsed.

Why did the Moors elect to invade Europe again: what was the threat

The most basic reasoning for such a great collective undertaking by African people was for regional national security reasons. The whole of the western Med Sea has been integrated in a single Roman slave plantation economy. The history of the Moorish Spain is one of the darkest periods in the historical of the Catholic Church, because the Moors were welcome by the oppressed white masses as liberators. The Moors rule was a direct threat and challenge to the Catholic Church. They had lost moral authority over the masses of the Iberian people long before the Moors came and freed them from their oppressive overlords and the Church. People were free to worship whoever they personally wanted and many did. The Catholic Church had sold out to the local oppressive Roman government, its army and the Germanic tribal hordes that followed them.

The liberation morals of the Moors is part of the reason why the Popes through history have consistently refused to allow African American Catholics to Africanize their faith like the Catholic brothers in Africa. The Catholic Inquisition was not so much about Muslims, as it was about Afrocentric thought and African culture that has taken over the learned minds in Western Europe and an army and navy able to overrun western Europe for 200 years.

The reason why Africa invade Europe was not Islam or greed

The Germanic Vandals overran Spain and parts of North Africa over a period 100 years, following the collapse of any control Roman government or military in North African or southwestern Europe. The Vandals were ruthless and so barbaric savage that when they took and destroyed the rebuilt Carthage, the whole of North Africa was shocked.

The Goths, Vandals, Franks and other Teutonic tribes were typical of how low Western European society had degenerated.

Moorish African leadership understood after Hannibal, the next time they had to deal militarily with Germanic or Roman white people, that they would have to be civilized, not just militarily defeated. Whole regions of southern Europe would have to be pacified, taken over and then civilized. The whites would have to be offered African civilization if Africa were to remain safe from their rising racism..

The Carthaginian Europe, North Africa and North Sea trading empire were laid to waste by Rome. The British Isles, and what would late become France, Germany, Portugal and Spain were special looting areas of the Roman fascist state. Whole peoples were enslaved, regions was depopulated to feed Roman slave plantations in Italy and southern Europe. Romans looted Iberia and its cities for cash crops and slave labor pools.

In the aftermath of the fall of the Western Roman Empire, PaxRoman, Europe lay in ruin. Banality, barbarian and a return to animal worship reemerged. Most of the Franks and other western Germanic tribes were known as kerwanderrung-the ‘Wandering of the Peoples’. The film the 12th Warrior offers a brief portal into the depths of social retrogression and collapse of the Roman economy had caused the agrarian society. These wandering war-like raiders posed a serious threat to the emerging Moorish economy and trade. They make up the lawless strong arm of the aristocratic class.

Islam was very important to the Moorish political rise, but the critical new levels of regional commercial activity and the internal trade with the Sudan, created the necessary economics to sustain an invasion of South Europe. Northwest Africa political economy has been transformed and strengthened by the span of Islam technologies (some from India and China) and trade across Africa. New developments in naval shipbuilding allow African nations to project power over the Western Mediterranean Sea like never before.

Taking Sicily accessed major supplies of wood to build commercial and military ships. The plan was to reach the Sudan by sea, but the situation in the Western Med did not allow for the investment until Rome was under Moorish control. This set the conditions to remove the remaining Vandal elements from Africa and address the deeper problem of Rome and the Italian city-states that protected it.

The solution was to transform southern Europe. To do so required first taking control of the Iberian Peninsula, southern France, the Italian cities states and then Rome.

Moorish naval forces strike at the powerful cities states, keeping their military off balance until other Moorish land forces could work their way over land and come down the route taken by Carthage 400 years before. The plan called for consolidating Iberia, avoiding deep land penetration into the northern Europe. The primary targets were the emerging Italian city-states. Islamic infighting in the eastern Mediterranean Sea and Egypt slow the Moorish attack plan and give the Germanic tribes time to regroup.

Black African states form a NATO-like military alliance and took the most looted provinces of the collapsed fascist Roman Empire, South France, Sicily and the Iberian region and transformed these target areas into the most advanced cultural and manufacturing region of Europe. These same regions became the de facto, forward-most positions of garrisoned Moorish military forces in Europe.

The forward defense was structured in defense layers centered on Southern ports able to receive rapid reinforcement from Africa. These forward garrisons were manned by mostly by domestic non-Moorish troops, commanded by Moorish officers.

Moorish troops were recruited as far away as the Niger River in the Western Sudan. The centric layers ran from a demilitarized zone (DMZ) in South France, in layers, anchored by cities and ports across the Iberian on the North-South axis to the Moorish city/port on Mediterranean. These fortifications were designed to holdout for years if necessary until reinforcement arrived from North Africa. The defense grew strong as forces moved south, allowing for regrouping and counterattacks.

The Moorish defenses were armed with the most advanced weapons of the period. Each fort was armed with the latest canons from Africa, the Middle East, China and India. Moors were the first army to deploy canons in European warfare. The Moorish defense forces the Germanic tribes in long war of attrition. The system of military fortification lasted until 1492, or 780 years when the Moorish kingdom, Granada fell.

Even though the Spanish State of the Moors eventually collapsed after more than 700 years of ruling Spain, many of their influences are still apparent today. The Moors were forced out of their homelands in Spain and into other parts of the world with the idea of spreading their beliefs and religion. Moors from Spain and Africa formed the original core group of both Europe and American slaves and freeman. Also Moorish and other western Sudan people formed the core groups of South American, Caribbean and North American slave populations. Moors also led the first slave rebellions and led the indigenous people resistance movements in the Caribbean, South America and later in Spanish North America. The So-called Venezuela Black Indians are mixed with Moors and indigenous people from Nigeria. Some of the Arabic influences that are still present today are in the areas of agriculture, architecture, mathematics, science, and medicine.

[Maddyn Malweed]

thelonghop wrote...

Really i was looking for something more like this..

1.09

www.youtube.com/watch

[Maddyn Malweed]

BioWare do try and even it out,so i can't complain about them ,but many devs do not try to even it out.

Oh and about the Beethoven thing,well take the true written story of Prince Esterhazy at Kismarton or Eisenstadt the home of the Prince.

These are the words of eye witness accounts..

In the middle of the first allegro of Haydnâs symphony, His Highness asked the name of the author. He was brought forward.

˜What!exclaimed the Prince, the music is by the blackamoor (a black Moor). Well, my fine blackamoor, henceforth thou art in my service.

˜What is thy name?

˜Joseph Haydn.

Now,i done not think that one school in the UK would actually teach this to their pupils.Why wouldn't they teach this to kids of every culture in their history or music classes.

Even with this written account and many others,their are top musicians who refuse to except it,just like their are many people in Europe and across the world who only see black people as second rate citizens,it's that slave mentality..

This is their way of dealing with the truth.

Sorry for the rant ,but sometimes peoples defensive reactions to someone who happens to ask a question about race is predictable.

Modifié par Maddyn Malweed, 06 novembre 2009 - 07:13 .

[Dunii Lo'Cerlyn]

MortalFoil wrote...

vyvexthorne wrote...




It takes a bit of work but you can do it.  You just have to concentrate on the basic face shape.  Hair is another matter entirely.. they seem to dislike curly hair in most games that have some face gen.  All I know is these mideval type realms must have discovered hair relaxer at an early stage of evolution.

I think issue there is that curly hair must be really hard to model and have it look natural.

I actually don't mind the lack of curly hair. I like to be able to have different hair styles I can't have in real life.

[CJohnJones]

elkston wrote...

Trigonous wrote...

Or we could view it as an issue of the races that actually exist in the game world. God forbid that a game world is created without high-melanin content!

Yeah, but most fantasy worlds treat people of color like they don't even exist.  And when they do they are always the "bad" guys. (Dark Elves).

I liked Raymond Feist's books where there was a nation of Ranger-types who were primarily black. Robert E. Howard (writer of Conan) also had black characters and an analogue to Africa. Some of the characters were bad and some good. It can and is done sometimes. Most fantasy is based on European lore, though, so it is kind of understandable that people of color are largely absent. I would also not expect to see a lot of non-Hopi characters in a fantasy based on the stories of the Hopi Indians.

I don't count Drow because they don't have brownish human skin, but really black skin. Even if you do count them, remember that the greatest hero in D&D lore is a Drow and a good guy.


Oh, and I think that I did okay with my guy to the left here. I based him on Keith Hamilton Cobb, not to create a likeness but enough to get a believable face. Start with a picture of someone and work on getting the parts right. Then the face comes together.

Modifié par CJohnJones, 06 novembre 2009 - 07:29 .

[Augustus Graves]

I wish white people would stop making white people look bad.



I also wish I could survey the ages and work-status attached to some of these comments. Just so I can get a picture of how many irrational insane people run things. Without even considering the actual racism in this thread, (or people who pretend to be Morrigan from DAO), you've got this other group of people who like to take a post entirely out of context, and invent arguments that never existed.



This thread isn't whining, it isn't racism, and many, many other things brought up.