147 réponses à ce sujet

[ComTrav]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Still no answer to my question:

Why were the character shields of Garrus and Tali, the very feature that made it so easy for Bioware to include them in ME2, removed? To have Liara and the Virmire survivor retain THEIR character shields, they were kept out of the ME2 squad. This is straight from Bioware themselves, not speculation.

Why are Garrus and Tali now "mortal"? For no reason at all? Or is there a reason some of you are unwilling to accept, or even consider?

Why are we treating the "Virmire Survivor" as one character? Why does Kaiden (or Ashley) get to return in certain people's playthroughs, despite not being present in all of them, but not one of the ME2 squad gets put in? I actually part of the reason Kaiden/Ashley/Wrex are not recruitable in ME2 is so that they just have one chance to die in the course of the series. Ashley and Kaidin can serve similiar story roles, but they require different animation and voicework. I have to feel like figuring out a story cludge for a character to be involved is the least difficult part of bringing a particular squadmate involved.

We agree that Bioware made this decision intentionally. You seem to think they did it to commit to a course where all the characters in ME2 would be marginalized. I feel like they did it with an idea of how squad deaths would play out in ME3 in mind, and used it to 'up the ante' on the importance of decisionmaking in ME2.

And accessibility's not a huge problem...you just make a 'default start' where certain characters are around.

[Direwolf0294]

shinobi602 wrote...

Direwolf0294 wrote...

I want them to be my main squad in ME3 but I heard Bioware was all ready working on a new squad

Where did you "hear" this by chance? I'm interested.

Well not so much hear as read. It was posted several time in this forum on varies threads. I really hope its not true.

[shinobi602]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Well not so much hear as read. It was posted several time in this forum on varies threads. I really hope its not true.

No offense honestly, but I can't believe you without anything official. My advice to you would actually be don't believe everything on this forum unless Bioware says it.

[Collider]

Mass Effect 3 is probably going to be even bigger than Mass Effect 2. Bioware might top themselves again. They already trumped ME1's squad number by having 11 (or 12, whatever it was) squad mates over 6. It's fully within their ability to include some of the ME2 options (as well as all of them, but that's a lot of work), the priority being the romance options it seems. But I could see all the squad mates separate from Shepard and do their own thing.



Mordin - Could go research stuff elsewhere because he's an avid scientist and doesn't seem to be picky about his lab environment.



Grunt - Could go to Tuchanka, join a Krogan clan, or be a mercenary.



Tali - Help her people, possibly become an admiral.



Jacob - Continue working with Cerberus, possibly rejoin the Alliance.



Miranda - Continue working with Cerberus.



Thane - Continue assassinations, or simmer down somewhere because he's dying and doesn't have all the time in the world to live. Could be dead by ME3.



Garrus - Could be a Spectre, or roaming the galaxy killing mercs and criminals again. Could rejoin C-Sec.



Zaeed - He's a hired gun, not much else to say.



Jack - Do crazy stuff somewhere else like usual.



Legion - I don't know because I didn't recruit him but I could imagine he could have something to do like helping/fighting Geth or just being a synthetic somewhere :l He doesn't need food, water, or air after all.



Samara - Continue being a Justicar, or retire and enjoy her final years.



I'll be annoyed if no ME2 squad mates return. At the very least the romance options should have a good amount of interaction in ME3 and a nice happy romance ending.

[Mox Ruuga]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

You're using circular logic to try and 'prove' your speculation, Mox. We get it, you didn't like the ME2 group and you're bitter about whichever boring ME1 character wasn't in it, so your excuse is that they did it to 'save' the ME1 characters, and thus the others don't matter. Whatever.

There are many reasons why Kaidan/Ash and Liara weren't in it. Maybe they just -wanted- to give you the opportunity to cheat on them. Maybe they thought having your LIs spend time apart from you gave time for new interesting dynamics in the next one. Why doesn't that apply to ME2 LIs? Because they had to be in the game for you to experience the romance at all.

But the idea that just because people who died weren't teammates in the second one 'proves' that they aren't going to be teammates in the third one makes no sense. You can't build a reasonable theory on a singular example. You need more variables.

If there's one rule in storytelling, it's that you don't change the cast in the third installment of a trilogy. It's a waste of time better spent on the climax of the story.

Sigh. Who's being circular here? Why not answer my question? Why were Tali and Garrus made "mortal"? Bioware knew the problems this causes for bringing them back as squaddies, yet did it anyway.

And they are on record for saying Liara and Ash/Kaidan were spared ME2 squad duty to keep them alive for 100% of ME3 imports. It is possible that this was a blatant lie, I guess. We shall see.

As for the trilogy and changing of casts... I don't know if you were around in the old forums, when the people who were angry about the sidelining of ME1 LIs were answered on this same point by... Chris Priestly, I think it was. The answer? Think of ME more in terms of Indiana Jones, rather than Star Wars of LOTR when it comes to returning characters. So it is very likely "Willie Scott" and "Shortround" won't be back for ME3.

[FriendofGarrus]

Those are some good points citizen_snipsV1 (I didn't quote because of the length). The main problem I see is that it is mandatory for Bioware to make some new squadmates anyway- in the event someone has a save with just Shepard and one other survive. It is far easier to design the game just having to worry about new characters EVERYONE will experience than to focus significant resources of squad members that may or may not be in the game depending on the last mission.



Again I hope many of the team mates from ME2 are recruit-able but it seems to be unlikely because of the design problems and amount of content.

[Rip504]

IMO the mission was easy enough for every1 to survive and they know this.

Of course they are making a new squad,if you have a playthrough where ppl died you need new ones...and who knows Tim might buy them back to life to regain/keep your loyalty...lol j/k

[Faerlyte]

The basic point here is...if Bioware really was serious about leaving Liara and Ashley/Kaiden out of ME2's squad so that they could survive to ME3 (wow, three generic characters that mean didly squat to me - looking good so far, I can't wait), Bioware is cataclysmically lame.



Less just analyze this for a minute. By this reasoning, Bioware has, essentially, created an entire cast of characters - an entire game of missions and quests - that will have absolutely no bearing on ME3.



Why did we have ME2 again? Oh, so we could save humans from the Collectors. If this is how it ends up, Mass Effect will become the dumbest trilogy I've ever had the misfortune of getting excited about.



That's got to be the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. And if it's true, Bioware is lame. That is all.

[1nigoMontoya]

I think the argument about making content that people wont be able to see because their characters died in ME2 doesn't really hold water either. People starting with ME3 are a non-issue because Bioware can set up their stories with whomever should have lived in ME2. That only leaves people who import from ME2. In my opinion the people concerned with importing their character from 2 to 3 would most likely have all their crew members survive. If all your crew didn't survive then you didn't truly beat ME2 and there is really no reason to import. If someone doesn't care about getting all their crew to survive they probably don't care much about importing all their decisions. Thats my opinion



Plus Bioware could easily require certain members to be alive in order to import much like having Shepard alive is a requirement.

[The_KFD_Case]

I find the OP interesting and I concur. A few addendums regarding some of the posts in this thread so far:

1) It would indeed seem foolish if BioWare decided to give the majority of the "ME2" crew the boot after essentially making the main stay of the second game about gathering this elite team.

2) Team gathering has been cited as the main point of "ME2", to which I state "Yes, but not solely". The end cinematics also indicate that because of Shepard's team and their actions successfully stopping the Reaper's lackeys (i.e. the Collectors), that now makes it twice that they have lost one of their members/members-under-construction and having their machinations for the eradication of the galaxy derailed which apparently finally awakens the main Reaper fleet. Que "ME3" finale (*sigh* that word and its implications makes my heart heavy - no more "ME" afterwards? Say it isn't so BioWare!)

3) Moving on. Off the top of my head I can think of at least four or five characters that could easily and logically be removed in "ME3" from the "ME2" cast: I) Zaeed - he's a hired mercenary and the job he was hired for is now done. II) Samara - her oath to Shepard is now absolved as she has fulfilled her sworn oath to help him stop the Collectors. III) Jack - as the troubled and cagey highly individualistic character that she is, coupled with her attempt to persuade Shepard to take up piracy with the Normandy once the mission is over, it is entirely plausible that she won't stick around. She doesn't seem like the type that likes to linger in my opinion given where she's at in her life presuming you didn't pick her as your romance option. V) Thrane - given his illness and the projected 8 months of life left, he might not be around if a similar time span takes place between "ME2" and "ME3" the way it did betweent "ME1" and "ME2" (i.e. 2+ years).

4) While all of the party members are certainly talented individuals and amongst the best in the known galaxy in regards to what they due, they are not all exactly loved by the public (ex. Jack is one of the most feared and presumably wanted criminals in the galaxy).

5) As others have pointed out, there have already been remarks from BioWare regarding the reintroduction of a hands-on approach with Liara, Ashley, Kaiden (depending on which one you saved). That would leave someone like me with a "ME2" playthrough transferred to "ME3" with a 14 member squad. That is somewhat insane from what we have come to expect from RPGs in regards to party size. At 14 members I'm well on my way to starting my own new mercenary company!

6) Regarding the possible complications of having to work existing party members in to the story of "ME3", as well as being active members, well why not? BioWare have proven they are up to the task, afterall they did it with "ME2" from "ME1".

I'm confident good cases can be made as to why any of the characters might go or stay, however it is certainly also possible to have some party members leave for part of the game to go off on a mission without Shepard only to return later in the game (ex. perhaps Thane visits his son for some quality time before his demise barring a revolutionary new cure, etc). Personally I'd be thrilled to see the entire cast return though at 11 (if you have the Zaeed DLC) it may be pushing the limits of a party size that's readily manageable. Personally I enjoyed having 11 well developed (in many cases even superbly developed,) characters to interact with and I would much, much rather BioWare continue spoiling me for choice than falling short in the next game.

P.S. I see now Collider succintly outlined many of the same points in far greater brevity, but what the heck, I've already typed this so I'm leaving it up.

P.P.S "I'll be annoyed if no ME2 squad mates return. At the very least the
romance options should have a good amount of interaction in ME3 and a
nice happy romance ending."  This! I want to be able to keep any of the romances I may have chosen in "ME2" going in "ME3" which gives BioWare an easy and golden opportunity to pull at the heart strings of players now that the old "ME1" love interests return (presuming they do). I want to see more of Tali (yes BioWare, that was a naughty tease you did by almost letting me see her face and then at the last minute the camera pulls away - I chuckled but felt a bit crushed at the same time)!

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 04 février 2010 - 08:02 .

[shinobi602]

Faerlyte wrote...

Less just analyze this for a minute. By this reasoning, Bioware has, essentially, created an entire cast of characters - an entire game of missions and quests - that will have absolutely no bearing on ME3.

Why did we have ME2 again? Oh, so we could save humans from the Collectors. If this is how it ends up, Mass Effect will become the dumbest trilogy I've ever had the misfortune of getting excited about.

That's got to be the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. And if it's true, Bioware is lame. That is all.

THIS. A thousand times this.

[Mox Ruuga]

Faerlyte wrote...

The basic point here is...if Bioware really was serious about leaving Liara and Ashley/Kaiden out of ME2's squad so that they could survive to ME3 (wow, three generic characters that mean didly squat to me - looking good so far, I can't wait), Bioware is cataclysmically lame.

Less just analyze this for a minute. By this reasoning, Bioware has, essentially, created an entire cast of characters - an entire game of missions and quests - that will have absolutely no bearing on ME3.

Why did we have ME2 again? Oh, so we could save humans from the Collectors. If this is how it ends up, Mass Effect will become the dumbest trilogy I've ever had the misfortune of getting excited about.

That's got to be the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard. And if it's true, Bioware is lame. That is all.

Well, the story is really thin in ME2, if you break it down.

It's more of a mood piece, classic "holding pattern" middle part, during which the core plot doesn't advance much at all.

[shinobi602]

SwobyJ wrote...

Miranda- ~STAY~ Where's she gonna go? Everyone who brings her on the final battle can see that she's pretty much for helping you in any way she can now. 

Don't forget she also resigns from Cerberus and chooses to follow Shepard (if you go paragon and destroy the base instead of keeping it.)

[shinobi602]

1nigoMontoya wrote...
Plus Bioware could easily require certain members to be alive in order to import much like having Shepard alive is a requirement.

Never thought of that. Interesting. *strokes goatee*

[FriendofGarrus]

I can see grunt leaving to join his Krogan clan full time. He loves breaking skulls too much. Garrus could also become a Spectre.

[Gunner-th]

I certainly don't want to lose Tali and Garrus as squad members. They've been in both games so far, really can't just pull them out now.

If they're dead in your load it could simply disable their story element, or a more generic character takes their place.

[Khan317]

I see it like this; if your entire squad survived the suicide mission and Bioware has ideas to bring back ME1 characters, then I see an option to select which characters you want back from ME2 for your squad in ME3 IF the issue is the idea of bringing ME1 characters in ME3 squad. Also, bc we know it can only be 2 from ME1 ppl (Liara or Ash/Kaidan) we can remove two ME2 characters. If most of your crew died in ME2, idk how that will work. It might be a smaller squad for your imported ME2 Shepard with the opportunity to gain two more from ME1. The big stretch is having all ME2 characters with 1 or 2 ME1 characters in squad. That's just too many members. Would be pretty cool, but too much. I can see possible NPC's for some of the ME2 characters, but I hope that is not the case bc I would hate to know that my favorite ME2 characters are NPC in ME3 bc Bioware chose for me. The players should have the choice in returning ME2 characters in the game if the idea was to remove any. Mordin, Miranda, Legion, Jack, Grunt, Tali, Samara, Thane is how I would have it. Maybe Jacob if they give him better abilities. If any ME2 character, I see Zaeed as an NPC bc he's a merc and is roaming the galaxy. Let's see what happens for ME3.

Modifié par Khan317, 04 février 2010 - 07:53 .

[Mox Ruuga]

Everyone posting lists about why this character has no option but to stay, and that character can very well leave, should, once again, remember the end of ME1.

Back when we had no idea about how the story would continue, most people assumed Tali and Garrus were the least likely squaddies to return. Why? Because both said they were leaving to do other stuff after the defeat of Sovereign. Tali was especially committed and singleminded. Look what happened there. Oh sure, they did leave, but so did everyone else. And they were the only ones who came back.

None of the squaddies of ME2 is so tightly tied to Shepard, that they couldn't be off to do their own thing in ME3. It doesn't matter if you romanced them, either. Look what Liara, Ash, and Kaidan got up to during ME2. Really "warm" reunion we had with them, eh?

[wraith1113]

Ummm... maybe I'm remembering things fuzzy... but couldn't Tali die in the first game?



Sure, you basically had to be a brain dead monkey playing on insanity with a level 2 engineer for that to happen, but she can die in the first game. Has anyone imported a saved game with this happening?



Or am I just remembering things wrong again? *goes off to live in a tree stump off in the woods*

[shinobi602]

FriendofGarrus wrote...

I can see grunt leaving to join his Krogan clan full time. He loves breaking skulls too much. Garrus could also become a Spectre.

But Grunt will stay with his battlemaster

[citizen_snipsV1]

"Those are some good points citizen_snipsV1 (I didn't quote because of
the length). The main problem I see is that it is mandatory for Bioware
to make some new squadmates anyway- in the event someone has a save
with just Shepard and one other survive. It is far easier to design the
game just having to worry about new characters EVERYONE will experience
than to focus significant resources of squad members that may or may
not be in the game depending on the last mission.

Again
I hope many of the team mates from ME2 are recruit-able but it seems to
be unlikely because of the design problems and amount of content."

I understand where youre coming from, but i still see so many opportunities that wouldnt even be that hard to incorporate. not you, but others seem to think Bioware can not possibly fashion Me3 to include them, and yet the entire seris so far is about unique gameplays, where they not only go out of their way to make every person's dialogue, interactions, and game different, they literally make it a rule it seems. Bioware of any company i trust to go the extra mile for this series, as they already have.

I mean yes, new squad mates will be available, but Me 1 only had what, Kaidan, Ashley, Liara, Wrex, garrus, Tali. So 6, two of which can be left to stay on the citadel, one of which dies. So , Me 3 could go the way of less is more, and have Liara, Ash/Kai, as well as 4 new characters or even less. Now, make a few side missions that allow the morinth/samara scenario to replace some or all, so on a mission you come across thane and he and new squad member A get into a fight, you choose who to help. If Thane died in your game, plot not affected, just a 2 minute scenario doesnt occur. Or, just have conversations that allow old squaddies in. On a mission to the Floatilla, Tali if alive asks to join, yes or no.

Its not far fecthed when you really think of the already staggering amount of choice and additions added in....case and point. I helped Helena Blake in Me1, so my imported playthrough we had a short conversation on Omega. Now had we not met her, she just ceases to be there, no impact, but the fact that Bioware has already shown such devotion to add that little extra, having helen blake replaced by Samara and recruitable, doesnt seem that far fetched. As well, for those who didnt play either me2 or 1, no imports, they just assing as story as they did with me2, they could decide that 4 new characters join and Legion, Garrus, and Tali survived the mission, or what ever they choose. For those who lost them all excpet one ( to save them) all it means is no special convos on planets and that many less characters as squaddies.

In fact, the very idea of having played Me 2 to get the most out of Me3 is a game seller as well. I got the xbox in december, and my first game was mass effect, i wasnt even hugely interested in it, but seeing me 2 and hearing on forums how much transfers over, i bought it solely for this, and ended up loving it. So imagine instead of just dialogue transferring over, Bioware says buy the discounted me 2, and any surviving team members can be squad mates in me3, not a huge leap from what they are already doing.

yes, its easier to just sideline them, but Bioware doesnt have too, and they have shown huge dedication to unique playthroughs with all the extra content they add. Playing wiht no import really does feel quite alot different then with one, it surprised me even. It would just be such a waste on Bioware's part, and i truly think they too know this, that just recycling those characters they spent so much time makign real is a shame and is easily avoided and adds layers of gameplay.

[Mox Ruuga]

shinobi602 wrote...

1nigoMontoya wrote...
Plus Bioware could easily require certain members to be alive in order to import much like having Shepard alive is a requirement.

Never thought of that. Interesting. *strokes goatee*

Why would they screw their players over like that?

Choices matter in this game, remember?

[shinobi602]

wraith1113 wrote...

Ummm... maybe I'm remembering things fuzzy... but couldn't Tali die in the first game?

Sure, you basically had to be a brain dead monkey playing on insanity with a level 2 engineer for that to happen, but she can die in the first game. Has anyone imported a saved game with this happening?

Or am I just remembering things wrong again? *goes off to live in a tree stump off in the woods*

Lol...no....

[shinobi602]

Mox Ruuga wrote...


Why would they screw their players over like that?

Choices matter in this game, remember?

Obviously they don't matter according to you. What the heck's the point in me trying so hard to save all my team and get them to come with me when they won't be there in ME3? Pretty pointless then.