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Serious, ME2 characters as squadmates in ME3 isn't really difficult...


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#76
Mox Ruuga

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wraith1113 wrote...

Ummm... maybe I'm remembering things fuzzy... but couldn't Tali die in the first game?

Sure, you basically had to be a brain dead monkey playing on insanity with a level 2 engineer for that to happen, but she can die in the first game. Has anyone imported a saved game with this happening?

Or am I just remembering things wrong again? *goes off to live in a tree stump off in the woods*


No. Tali has character shields in ME1. The only way she can die, is if you don't save her from Saren's thugs in time. But that's a game over.

#77
KelaSaar

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I think the argument that no squad members from ME2 will carry over is a bit silly. First, it would completely invalidate about 80% of the second game. Also, Bioware has shown in many of their games that they are willing to put in resources for characters not everyone will have. In ME1 and ME2 a full third of the characters are optional, and in Dragon Age 7 of the 9 party members are optional. Frankly, if you managed to kill that many people on your ME2 squad, I don't know why you would want to import it in the first place.

#78
Direwolf0294

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Collider wrote...

Mass Effect 3 is probably going to be even bigger than Mass Effect 2. Bioware might top themselves again. They already trumped ME1's squad number by having 11 (or 12, whatever it was) squad mates over 6. It's fully within their ability to include some of the ME2 options (as well as all of them, but that's a lot of work), the priority being the romance options it seems. But I could see all the squad mates separate from Shepard and do their own thing.

Mordin - Could go research stuff elsewhere because he's an avid scientist and doesn't seem to be picky about his lab environment.

Grunt - Could go to Tuchanka, join a Krogan clan, or be a mercenary.

Tali - Help her people, possibly become an admiral.

Jacob - Continue working with Cerberus, possibly rejoin the Alliance.

Miranda - Continue working with Cerberus.

Thane - Continue assassinations, or simmer down somewhere because he's dying and doesn't have all the time in the world to live. Could be dead by ME3.

Garrus - Could be a Spectre, or roaming the galaxy killing mercs and criminals again. Could rejoin C-Sec.

Zaeed - He's a hired gun, not much else to say.

Jack - Do crazy stuff somewhere else like usual.

Legion - I don't know because I didn't recruit him but I could imagine he could have something to do like helping/fighting Geth or just being a synthetic somewhere :l He doesn't need food, water, or air after all.

Samara - Continue being a Justicar, or retire and enjoy her final years.

I'll be annoyed if no ME2 squad mates return. At the very least the romance options should have a good amount of interaction in ME3 and a nice happy romance ending.


I can see your logic but I can also see reasons they would stay.

Mordin - Wants to make up for the Genophage by helping you save the galaxy.

Grunt - Stay on with you because he likes to fight and you have heaps of enemys. I can see him leaving more then the others though.

Tali - Depending on what you did she might be exiled. Also the Normandy is her home now and she is loyal to Shepard.

Jacob - He was never hardcore Cerberus. He mainly joined them because they did things and wont held back by regulations. I think he would rather hang with Shepard as Shepard gets things done but dosn't have the hate for aliens.

Miranda - Whilst she still might work for Cerberus she would stay with Shepard so she can get track of him for the Illusive Man.

Thane - Like Grunt his another I could see leaving but I could also see him staying. He might leave to spend more time with his son before he dies or he may stay with you and try and save the universe before he dies.

Garrus - No way would he go back to C-Sec and I doubt he would be offered a job as a Spectre. I think he would want to stay with Shepard because Shepards fighting the bad guys.

Zaeed - Yea he would leave unless Shepard pays him more money.

Jack - Has no were else to go. Plus this way she gets to do violent stuff with out getting in trouble with the law.

Legion - The Geth would want to keep an eye on Shepard. As long as Shepard continues to fight the Reapers Legion will stay with him/her.

Samara - She has said she wont retire. I think she would continue to help Shepard as saving the Galaxy is a noble cause.

#79
Faerlyte

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Mox Ruuga wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

1nigoMontoya wrote...
Plus Bioware could easily require certain members to be alive in order to import much like having Shepard alive is a requirement.


Never thought of that. Interesting. *strokes goatee*


Why would they screw their players over like that?

Choices matter in this game, remember?


What choice is there if from the very beginning none of the ME2 cast will have any relevance in ME3 because it's possible for any one of them to be dead? There is no choice by that reasoning. If choices matter, than having them alive should have as much bearing on ME3 as having them dead. Otherwise, there isn't a choice at all - they've essentially taken it away from us. 

Those characters might as well be dead if all they are is a cameo in ME3 in my mind. Our choice to save them is supposed to matter also. 

Modifié par Faerlyte, 04 février 2010 - 08:02 .


#80
wraith1113

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Mox Ruuga wrote...

No. Tali has character shields in ME1. The only way she can die, is if you don't save her from Saren's thugs in time. But that's a game over.

I didn't think it was a game over, at least that's not what I heard. Arg, where are all the ME 1 videos on youtube?

#81
Massadonious1

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This idea has been floating around since people started beating the game, and I'm warming up to it myself.



Certain characers could remain on the Normandy, but just not be recruitable squadmates. Mordin could still run the tech lab, Miranda and Jacob could still be your Cerberus contacts to TIM (if you didn't blow up the base) or they could use their contacts and information about Cerberus to keep you safe from Cerberus agents. (if you did blow up the base) If they die during the suicide mission, then they are replaced with named placeholders who have added diaologue options about why they are there, how they knew the people they replaced, and how honored they are to serve with you and replace said people. Combine that with the fact that certain characters are realisticly not going to be around depending on the timeline of the third game, even if they did die during the final mission (Thane's illness, Zaeed's merc status) and you have plenty of room to add Ashley/Kaidan, Liara, Wrex (if they want to go that route) and 1 or 2 new characters if they so choose.



Even then, the new characters should really be people that are recogniziable. People like Kal'Reegar, and maybe even Captain Anderson. They'll still be fresh to new players, but known to people who have played since the first two games. Like some have said, the 3rd installment really isn't the best place to introduce fresh faces.

#82
ThatDancingTurian

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Well, I did have a long reply typed out to counter Mox, but it just seems pointless since there have been a multitude of reasonable arguments in here already.

KelaSaar wrote...

I think the argument that no squad members from ME2 will carry over is a bit silly. First, it would completely invalidate about 80% of the second game. Also, Bioware has shown in many of their games that they are willing to put in resources for characters not everyone will have. In ME1 and ME2 a full third of the characters are optional, and in Dragon Age 7 of the 9 party members are optional. Frankly, if you managed to kill that many people on your ME2 squad, I don't know why you would want to import it in the first place.

Such as this.

#83
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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Faerlyte wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

1nigoMontoya wrote...
Plus Bioware could easily require certain members to be alive in order to import much like having Shepard alive is a requirement.


Never thought of that. Interesting. *strokes goatee*


Why would they screw their players over like that?

Choices matter in this game, remember?


What choice is there if from the very beginning none of the ME2 cast will have any relevance in ME3 because it's possible for any one of them to be dead? There is no choice by that reasoning. If choices matter, than having them alive should have as much bearing on ME3 as having them dead. Otherwise, there isn't a choice at all - they've essentially taken it away from us. 

Those characters might as well be dead if all they are is a cameo in ME3 in my mind. Our choices to save them is supposed to matter also. 


This. I didn't mind the squad transition at all between ME1 and ME2, but this... this is different. If Bioware goes all the way we find out "Oh, here's 8 new characters, and Liara.. oh and Virmire survivor hangs around every so often", I don't care how 'epic' it is (I can just watch it like a movie in Youtube then...), I won't be buying ME3.

#84
Lord Atlia

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Mox Ruuga wrote...

citizen_snipsV1 wrote...


Bravo TC, exactly what i knew but couldnt put to words as well.
Lets just hope bioware remembers that fact and doesnt bombarde us with new teammates we wont grow to care about, and instead brings back our favorites, Tali, Garrus, Legion, Thane, whoever, so we can continue to flesh out those who helped us get to this stage, and have them next to us in the final battle, of which should be one of the most climactic battles ever

Please Bioware, bring them back, we want them, add a few new people but leave a huge number for our favorites<3


The same argument was used to plead for the ME1 squad being in ME2 instead of a bunch of new psychos no one would care about. Bioware ignored it.

They will ignore this as well.

How can characters like Tali and Garrus be in ME3, when they died during the suicide mission? You think Bioware removed their character shields from ME1 for no reason? Especially since they already had experience with Wrex' situation, knowing how difficult it would be to bring back someone who can die, no matter the fan outcry?

I'd say they did this to commit themselves to a course. Like Cortez burning his ships.

New squad + Liara and the Virmire survivor in ME3. And I will be glad. Well, mostly, I will miss Miranda and Mordin.


Your bitterness towards Tali clouds your mind Mox Ruuga.

#85
amrose2

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Honestly, theres maybe 3 or 4 I would want to carry over. Some of the squad mates are generic and boring ex. Grunt, Samara, Jacob. Some are going to die soon, Thane, possibly Mordin (he's old for a Solarian). Some are going to move on and become leaders or heralds for the armies of their people: Tali, Legion, possibly Garrus.



I just think people should accept the fact that the team will be re-organized again. Expect 1 or 2 from the ME2 squad and maybe 1 or 2 from the ME1 squad.

#86
citizen_snipsV1

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"None of the squaddies of ME2 is so tightly tied to Shepard, that they couldn't be off to do their own thing in ME3. It doesn't matter if you romanced them, either. Look what Liara, Ash, and Kaidan got up to during ME2. Really "warm" reunion we had with them, eh?"



That's something that can be argued all day, so why people are even making lists on why he couldn't stay or why she would i don't understand. Personally i think saving Kaidan from the greatest threat the universe could ever face and being his buddy throughout it all would mean he would never second guess me, and on Horizon he acts like a little ***** and forgets it all even when i explain to him cerberus. Point is, they can do anything to write off



The point is not whether they would be story relevant to stay, its that we dotn wnat such terrific and meaningful characters become sidelined. Bioware could decide anything on that , Garrus could get a sex change and start stripping at Omega and that would be a way to right him off.



The point is, many are saying that the me2 squad should be heavily if not entirely involved in me 3 because the game was about building our relationships with them, much much much more so then the first. So, people can see it is easy enough to include them through little side missions without at all interfering with anyone or any of the story. So we are keen to have this happen, as we spent so much of this game, in fact the entire game with these team mates as the focus, we want them to be squaddies, and it is easily done and would give options to even those who dont have the m alive, or just didn't like them anyways.

#87
Collider

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Shinobi has a point. The whole suicide mission - other than having Shepard (and one other squad mate so he doesn't die) survive, would have less of an impact if no ME2 squaddies came back somehow in ME3.

Modifié par Collider, 04 février 2010 - 08:23 .


#88
FriendofGarrus

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I certainly hope you are right citizen_snipsV1 but I can only see that working with select characters. Who knows...maybe Bioware will take a middle road. Perhaps they will sideline all the characters who couldn't be love interests to a role similar to Wrex's (i.e. the player can meet and interact with them but can't recruit- Zaeed, Samara/Morinth, Mordin, Legion, and Grunt).



I'm fairly certain Liara will be recruit-able and probably the virmire survivor. Then, I could see Bioware following a plan similar to the one you outlined: giving the option to switch out new characters that can be recruited with the 6 characters who could be love interests in ME2. This cuts down on some of the work and would resolve problems with different save files. Thus if you don't have Tali survive for example, you aren't given the opportunity to switch out another Quarian squad member for her when the opportunity arises.



This seems like the best solution I've been able to come up with.

#89
Sursion

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I'd be happy if the physics and graphics engine remained the same, and all time and effort went towards in-game stuff.

#90
Dracotamer

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Definitely not hard at all. Check out my thread about how I think they will or should handle squadmates.



http://social.biowar...05/index/845980

#91
Collider

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Direwolf0294 wrote...
I can see your logic but I can also see reasons they would stay.

You've got some really good points that I hadn't thought of. To clarify, I don't think that any specific squad mate isn't going to return, just giving some possible reasons why they might not. Though I agree that Zaeed is just a hired gun and is probably one of the most likely not to return. Just to discuss, let me reply to your some of your points.

Tali - Depending on what you did she might be exiled. Also the Normandy is her home now and she is loyal to Shepard.

I believe I read that if she is exiled she says that she will try or might redeem herself by doing some great for the quarians (again...)

Well as for loyalty that depends on whether you got it in ME2, if you told the board about her father she doesn't become loyal (and doing that rules out romance with it seems)

Miranda - Whilst she still might work for Cerberus she would stay with Shepard so she can get track of him for the Illusive Man.

Or maybe to evade the Illusive Man, I believe if you opt to destroy the reaper technology at the end, ILM asks Miranda to save it and she says no.

Garrus - No way would he go back to C-Sec and I doubt he would be offered a job as a Spectre. I think he would want to stay with Shepard because Shepards fighting the bad guys.

True, but he also could go solo or form another team like did with Omega.

#92
casedawgz

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As long as not EVERYONE is a returning character it shouldn't be too difficult to implement. There were a TON of characters in ME2. Assume that instead of 10, the number can go a bit higher. Will people really miss too much? There should still be enough new stuff going on that the game could carry on even if some poor unenlightened soul killed Wrex.

#93
shinobi602

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Collider wrote...

Or maybe to evade the Illusive Man, I believe if you opt to destroy the reaper technology at the end, ILM asks Miranda to save it and she says no.


She actually resigns from Cerberus, says she will follow Shepard, and basically gives Illusive Man the finger.

#94
FriendofGarrus

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casedawgz wrote...

As long as not EVERYONE is a returning character it shouldn't be too difficult to implement. There were a TON of characters in ME2. Assume that instead of 10, the number can go a bit higher. Will people really miss too much? There should still be enough new stuff going on that the game could carry on even if some poor unenlightened soul killed Wrex.


But what happens to someone who only has 1 squadmate survive with Shepard?

Modifié par FriendofGarrus, 04 février 2010 - 08:23 .


#95
The_KFD_Case

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SwobyJ wrote...

HeyUder wrote...

I want you to be right, but the fact that in 2 years' times excitement over the story/characters of ME2 will die down a bit will lead to new characters. There is the obvious "they can die" argument (which is definitely a good argument), but wht really makes me think they're not coming back is that they signd on JUST for the suicide mission. No one thinks that the Reapers are coming right now. They will be off doing other things, as their main mission is complete.


Now I'm only considering in terms of story and characterization, not in what curveballs Bioware could hit us with:

Miranda- ~STAY~ Where's she gonna go? Everyone who brings her on the final battle can see that she's pretty much for helping you in any way she can now. 

Jacob- ~MAY LEAVE~ Agreed, yet there could be a contrived reason for him to stay on.

Jack- ~STAY~ I see that more in the romance subplot, that she certainly won't wish to leave Shepard, as he is the *only* thing going for her. She's also the most powerful human biotic ya know.

Zaeed- ~LEAVE~ Goodbye, don't come back kthnx.

Mordin- ~MAY LEAVE~ I see him having a role, but I'm not so sure about him being a squadmate in ME3.

Grunt- ~STAY~ Shepard is his Battlemaster. He's not leaving.

Garrus- ~STAY~ Nothing else to do, and heck, I brought him with me to chat with Soverign - he knows the risks and is gonna stay :)

Tali- ~STAY~ ... and Tali I brought to defeat Saren.

Samara- ~MAY LEAVE~ On one hand you have Liara possibly returning (can't have two asari right?) and Samara's position maybe requiring her to leave, but on the other I think I recall her stating she wishes to stay and help defeat the Reapers, so... I was going to say 'leave', but I'm not so sure. She'll maybe do crazy stuff though in any case :P

Thane- ~MAY DIEEEE~ It all comes down to whether he is killed off or not. I have this theory that since Bioware is tracking us this time (check your online settings hehe, those peeping toms!), whether femsheps romance Thane or even if the effort is put into his loyalty and survival may be what they'll be paying attention to. With enough support I'm sure he could make it, but let's assume he dies.

Legion- ~MAY LEAVE~ Yup, on one hand he's novel and would be awesome on the team, but on another he has the role with the geth to explore, possibly without Shepard.

Alright, so the ones I'd think would certainly stay around Shepard to fight in ME3 comes to 5. But honestly, they *all* (cept Zaeed) have reason to stay. It comes down to Bioware's wishes.


STAYs -  Miranda, Jacob, Grunt, Garrus and Tali (regarding becoming an admiral she stated that that is something that usually takes quite a while. An exception could be made yet technically she hasn't even served in the role as captain of a ship before which would seem to be of pivotal importance to the Quarians of all people...Besides, I want to be able to keep on romancing her, but that's just my personal bias speaking!;)).

MAYBEs - Samara (I would be thrilled to have her stay and if she became fully romanceable it would be the first time I'd be seriously tempted to go for the Asari romance option - damn, so close and yet so far in "ME2"!). Legion (may end up serving as a peace broker along with Shepard and Tali and thus bring the largest fleet and a very advanced two different groups to bear in the fight against the Reapers. Since Geth communicate at the FTL speeds it wouldn't even necesitate Legion going back beyond the Perseus Veil although I'd be thrilled to visit the Quarian homeworld, or failing that at least seeing the Quarians finally get a homeworld again). Mordin (though I think you may be on to something about him playing a supporting scientific role in "ME3". Genophage cure so the Krogan can join with the Alliance/Council, Geth, Quarian flotilla and Arachni in defeating the Reapers - pending the decisions you made along the way - anyone?). Jack (has a long history of running away/being on the move - even if a player chose her as the romance option and it was the genuine Paragon path, it's far from difficult to imagine Jack freaking out once more despite wanting the calm that Shepard can provide and leaving post haste).

LEAVEs - Zaeed (his contract is up as you pointed out; if you picked the Paragon path with him he actually turns out to be a solid asset in my opinion although with 11 party members and a squad limit of 3, it wasn't much playing time he got; Jack got even less in my playthrough). Thane (short of a miracle cure his time is running out quickly).

As for having more than one Asari on the team, why not? There are plenty of humans on the team after all despite not being the only major faction in the galaxy. Perhaps a Batarian will be introduced although I'm not convinced I'd take to that idea, but given BioWare's story telling abilities I won't rule it out of hand.

Modifié par The_KFD_Case, 04 février 2010 - 08:56 .


#96
casedawgz

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FriendofGarrus wrote...

casedawgz wrote...

As long as not EVERYONE is a returning character it shouldn't be too difficult to implement. There were a TON of characters in ME2. Assume that instead of 10, the number can go a bit higher. Will people really miss too much? There should still be enough new stuff going on that the game could carry on even if some poor unenlightened soul killed Wrex.


But what happens to someone who only has 1 squadmate survive wit hShepard?


Doesn't Shepard die if he does that poorly?

#97
citizen_snipsV1

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amrose2 wrote...

Honestly, theres maybe 3 or 4 I would want to carry over. Some of the squad mates are generic and boring ex. Grunt, Samara, Jacob. Some are going to die soon, Thane, possibly Mordin (he's old for a Solarian). Some are going to move on and become leaders or heralds for the armies of their people: Tali, Legion, possibly Garrus.

I just think people should accept the fact that the team will be re-organized again. Expect 1 or 2 from the ME2 squad and maybe 1 or 2 from the ME1 squad.


Why are people trying to make logic out of this kind of stuff? For every scenario you outlined , i could create a counter one, and they could make just as much sense, and even if they didnt make any sense, it would still be what it is. There cant be guessing as to why they will or wont appear.

Thane- Blasto discovers that Element Zero has a secret property that heals whatever the hell is wrong with Thane. There is an emotional scene where Thane admits to using steroids and you option to paragon and he joins

Mordin- He lied, he is secretly only 40, his mother was an alcoholic and forgot about him for ten years, thus he is only 40. It also explains his missing tentacle thing as she drank during birth.

Tali- Had too much fun on the Shepard Sex express, she joins but just lounges around his room  waiting for a fix

for every reasoning, there is a counter..these are intendly stupid to higlight the ridiculousness of seriosuly contemplatign why its likely anyone would be in or out. But i hope everyone understands that there doesnt have to be concrete logic to things, the game could even take place 1 day after the second, ergo they all stuck around.

"I certainly hope you are right citizen_snipsV1 but I can only see that
working with select characters. Who knows...maybe Bioware will take a
middle road. Perhaps they will sideline all the characters who couldn't
be love interests to a role similar to Wrex's (i.e. the player can meet
and interact with them but can't recruit- Zaeed, Samara/Morinth,
Mordin, Legion, and Grunt).

I'm fairly certain Liara
will be recruit-able and probably the virmire survivor. Then, I could
see Bioware following a plan similar to the one you outlined: giving
the option to switch out new characters that can be recruited with the
6 characters who could be love interests in ME2. This cuts down on some
of the work and would resolve problems with different save files. Thus
if you don't have Tali survive for example, you aren't given the
opportunity to switch out another Quarian squad member for her when the
opportunity arises.

This seems like the best solution I've been able to come up with."

Paragraph 2--exactly!- Simple things like this are already implemented into Me2, so doing this is not at all a leap what so ever. Develop 5 characters for me3 as squad mates, and have a handful of me2 characters able to take their place, or optional sidequests to recruit them if available, nothing that at all messes with save files, individual canon, nor at all the story.

Believe me i hope im right too. Nothing is ever set in stone, but i think people have to take a second and think of the relative ease that they could use to make it happen, as well as how they have already made the same things happen, so from experience we should know ( ie. morinth/samara)

But of course, i urge all to remind Bioware of that ease, not that i feel important or smarter then then whatsoever, but just to let them know fans loved this game and its characters enough we wnat them to be by our side for the end, or at leats some of them. To let them know we all lovet his game enough to go over scenarios to have them readily available.

#98
Collider

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I read that Shepard dies if all of the other squad mates are dead. But if there's one left with him, he survives. Could be wrong though. It's a good point that an ME2 player could possibly have everyone but one squad mate survive. But you would think that

a) People would reload and do things differently. If they didn't mess up their save files.

B) People would know that they need a sizeable team, loyalty, and resources to have a greater chance at survival. The game pretty much tells you, after all.

c) If they messed up their save files, they can replay the game. It's not so bad considering how replayable Mass Effect is in general.

#99
CastorKrieg

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I think most characters were meant only for ME2. They've went with Shepard and done their mission, now they will all scatter. I'm sure we will get cameos from them if one or more survivied, I also think some party members will remain as party members in ME3, esp. Legion and Tali, seeing as the true Geth seem to be a formidable force to oppose the Reapers.

#100
Pablo61

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Maybe I'm biased because I took the time to save everyone, but I'd like to see Bioware actually stick to their guns on the choices matter thing. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me, but I would prefer a system in which the size of your team depends on your ME2 save. They could set a cannon set of characters for any late comers to the ME-verse in ME3, but otherwise,the size of your team is directly related to how much time you put into ME2. If you saved everyone, then kudos to you, you get to continue on with your full team into ME2. However, if you lost 2 or 3 squad mates, that's your loss for ME3, you'll have to deal with the consequences of letting them die. In my case, I have a super loyal team and everyone survived. What better crew is there to fight with against the Reapers? Obviously, some squad mates just CANT return (Thane *sigh* Unless they cure him...), leaving room for a couple of new squad mates, but other than that, I'd much prefer a system that was based on our decisions. That seems to be the premise of ME anyways. Unfortunately, I fear a lot of people might find this approach to harsh. Just my two cents.