7857 réponses à ce sujet

[FenrisDeSolar]

I don't want him to dramatically grab Shepard's arm, or have the effing talk about him getting her killed. That's the "Horizon" of Shoker. I want there to be subtle flirting, small gestures. Nothing too obvious until they kiss.  He wouldn't smack us in the face with a "hey, let's date!" That'd be a huge emotional risk, should our Shepard's choose to reject him. He wouldn't be fumbling and avoiding eye-contact either. We're talking about a man, here, not a school-girl.

If it could just blossom (I hate that word, but it fits) into something more, from the close friendship they already have. That'd be fine.

No dates, no arm-grabbing, no nervous fidgeting. Just evolution.

Modifié par FenrisDeSolar, 24 décembre 2010 - 01:14 .

[Sorrel]

Well, I think you might underestimate Joker's social skills in that department, specifically. Yes, we all know he can talk himself up about his piloting. But his skills with women? (Or men?)

This is a guy who -- from how he talks about flight school -- gives a zillion not-so-subtle hints to the listener that he's been passed up all his life because of who he is and what affects him physically. He's basically been relegated to being the Distant Observer for most things outside of his career. Hell, he was almost passed up for that, too. He had to bust his ass harder than everyone else to 'compensate' for his weaknesses.



He says a few times that he's not a people person and doesn't enjoy socializing. What opportunities does that give him to really connect with someone, especially on a romantic level? Joker's not a boy, certainly -- But I think the ways in which he'd respond to developing a serious emotional connection with someone would be boyish. Those feelings of his would be crude and undeveloped, raw from inexperience. Maybe Joker's messed around with some people, but I don't think I'm too far off the mark when I think he's not had a real relationship before. I think that would make him full of evasive looks and a bit of fidgeting.



Also, if he hasn't had a real relationship before just because of who he is, he's like... 28 or something? 30? I'm sure he'd have some bitter shame about that.



Consider this, too, Shepard is on a pedestal, high above pretty much anyone and everyone. I'm sure the 'I don't think s/he'd look at me when there are healthier people to pick from' thing has crossed his mind more than once, if we're speaking in terms of him being an actual person and thinking of how a relationship would form between them.



Shepard and Joker have a great rapport already, and the best boyfriends are friends first, so he's halfway there.



How I'd like to see it happen? A blurted compliment. A sudden backpedal. A defensive move. An admittance. A reluctant attempt. Plenty of room for one or two fidgets. Joker's not one, in my opinion, to really put his neck out when it comes to emotions. Who can blame him? Shepard's not got a steering column, so from the sounds of things he might have some fears about how to make his approach. I think if he was approached he might retract a bit. He'd need some chasing.



That said, I think if a LI path did go ahead, he'd be pretty much the most caring and attentive of all the personalities 'available' so to speak. He'd just do it in his own way. And that's why we love him, right?

[jillyfae]

aw, my silly wasn't entertaining? That's alright. In all seriousness, Fenris pretty much hit the ideal Joker romance on the head, imho. And yes, blossom sounds all wrong, but I can't think of a better one either. ^_~

@Sorrel  and wow, you're much more eloquent than I am.  I'm gonna need to dedicate a fic chapter to you.

Modifié par jillyfae, 24 décembre 2010 - 01:34 .

[Loup Blanc]

I'm late to the party, but just to say I actually support a Joker romance for Femshep in ME3. Would only make sense that after following her through the epic events of the trilogy, he'd fall for her. They could definitely play on his lack of confidence because of his illness, to make a truly gripping and touching romance. You know, kind of like the little guy who looks up to the most popular girl at the prom, and never dared approaching her. Could be one of the most interesting romances ever. And as per his personality, it could be funny too.

Modifié par JL81, 24 décembre 2010 - 01:57 .

[FenrisDeSolar]

I missed the silly, Jilly... I'm slow.



Still, I just can't see him fumbling or fidgeting. He's a very self-controlled person. We've only seen him lose his cool once, and he took that back and apologised quickly. Perhaps he couldn't look her in the eye, but I don't think he considers Shepard to be above him in anything more than rank.



They're friends. If he considered her to be better than him, he probably wouldn't even try to go for her. We can't have this. Joker would have to consider them fairly equal if he was to make a move.



Blossom is a hideous word. I shall have to find a suitable synonym.

[jillyfae]

@Fenris: I tend to assume mental awkward equates with physical fumbling. You're right, though, that Joker isn't the fidgeting type. I do think trying to figure out what the hell is going on between him and Shepard would cause him to lose his cool, but in more realistic terms, he'd be much more subtle about it. Cause he tries not to lose his cool, after all.

And while they might be equals, they're very different, so still... awkward is highly possible.

[FenrisDeSolar]

Ah, I just find it hard to put awkward into that relationship, between those two people... but I could be imagining them differently, of course. We all interpret things differently.

[jillyfae]

Briefly awkward? Though, actually, the fic I'm working on has completely avoided the awkward. But there's less background of a relationship in game, so in that version... I have trouble picturing a transition into 'romance' without one awkward 'will we/won't we' sorta moment. *shrugs* Could just be me though. And yes, personal interpretation varies widely, especially with how little we're given that's 'canon' for interpersonal interaction. For anyone, really, even the 'official' LI's.

[CDRSkyShepard]

@ JL81 - Thanks for the input! It's never too late to join this party. We need more support from more people...we know they're out there!

Would it be reasonable to think that Shep's personality would make an impact on how Joker approached a romance situation? Speaking from a non-game standpoint, because beyond the Paragon-Renegade spectrum (which includes Paragades and Renegons), we don't really control our Shepard's minute personality characteristics. Maybe I'm thinking too hard about it, which is entirely possible. XD I've been known to do that...

I kind of see him as the "admiring from afar" kind of guy. I don't think he'd put himself out there and risk getting hurt without some encouragement...which would be hard to come by up to this point in the game, since Shep has so many LI's and no opportunity to romance him. I can also see him harboring a crush on Shepard, because she takes the time to know him and sees past his disability. Joker seems really closed off because of his disability, like he's built up this sarcastic outer shell...which makes it seem reasonable to me to hypothesize that while we have seen the "silly side" of Joker, we haven't seen much of his other, more sensitive side. He is definitely capable of being caring and sensitive...just look at how upset he was when the crew was taken by the Collectors.

Modifié par CDRSkyShepard, 24 décembre 2010 - 06:43 .

[NamiraWilhelm]

I certainly think Joker would feel awkward about Shep, being a 'school girl' has nothing to do with it. Being emotionally guarded is not childish, many adults are, and having body language that expresses that fact is not childish either. Yes hes a grown man but hes a very emotionally guarded person, and not all 'school girl' behaviour is something you're conscious of while you're doing it. Its animal, like not noticing you biting your own nails or blushing. There would be a gap inbetween him telling himself to confess his feelings, and him actually doing so, and thats when that behaviour would arise. There will be an even longer gap because he's Joker, and it'd take him a fair while to get up the balls to put himself out there. Not to mention the impact it could have on the crew whether or not it lasts blah blah blah
But then this is all based on Shep not making the first move

edit: great post Sorrel

@JL81 Welcome, and do come back

Modifié par NamiraWilhelm, 24 décembre 2010 - 01:19 .

[Sorrel]

I can't remember if I posted this here before or not, if I did, deal w/ it

[CDRSkyShepard]

Sorrel, I don't think you have...unless if it was a long way back. But even if you did, I doubt you'll get too many complaints here.

[Trapper_920]

NamiraWilhelm wrote...

I certainly think Joker would feel awkward about Shep, being a 'school girl' has nothing to do with it. Being emotionally guarded is not childish, many adults are, and having body language that expresses that fact is not childish either. Yes hes a grown man but hes a very emotionally guarded person, and not all 'school girl' behaviour is something you're conscious of while you're doing it. Its animal, like not noticing you biting your own nails or blushing. There would be a gap inbetween him telling himself to confess his feelings, and him actually doing so, and thats when that behaviour would arise. There will be an even longer gap because he's Joker, and it'd take him a fair while to get up the balls to put himself out there. Not to mention the impact it could have on the crew whether or not it lasts blah blah blah
But then this is all based on Shep not making the first move

I have to agree with you and in case anyone forgot I am a straight adult male that "IS" emotionally guarded.

Modifié par Trapper_920, 25 décembre 2010 - 04:16 .

[NamiraWilhelm]

Thank you Trapper



Ive not seen it before Sorrel, in any case there just arent enough Joker pics being posted! Its a shame Tooneyman is so busy, since i'd like the OP to have all the Joker fanart like in all the other character threads.

[NamiraWilhelm]

You mean the VS DLC? Who knows Looks like we might be waiting til ME3 for closure in that department



But welcome xD

[FenrisDeSolar]

Brodyaha wrote...

You know how Shep started the ME2 romances after Horizon, and after the loyalty missions started appearing?  I would like them to have a talk.

I know Shepard was a stupid, lovely, brave idiot who should've gotten into the pod with Joker, but I want the fact that s/he died to be addressed.  (Mind you, this is not just from Joker, this addressment applies to EVERY FRICKEN BODY who just replies to Shepard's death with, "You're back from the dead?  Cool, kill some people," and the fact that Shepard addresses it with, "I got better."  Slightly, OT, sorry.)

But, Joker must've missed him/her.  Shepard must've missed him.  Address that.  Then, Shepard should have the option (regardless of gender) to pursue a romance with Joker.  

I want the fact that Shepard died to be addressed, too, by everyone -- in depth. Someone should care beyond the point of, "oh, hai, Shappurd, you mad? 8D" I'd like there to be a talk about it with Joker, just like I want to talk to Kaidan about Horizon. But I don't want that to be a part of a romance dialogue. It should be a step in their friendship, not their more intimate relationships. If it was, that conversation would be unavailable to people who don't want to get into Joker's pants. Unless there's a variation, but still. I want that conversation to happen with ALL of your crew. Not just him.

Brodyaha wrote...

You know those dialogues cues in ME2--"I want you,"  and "We should ease stress together?"  That could happen with Joker.  (Except the reply that Shepard gives isn't quite that bold and forward--I know this with Thane and Garrus's, at least, that the replies are much more subtle than the obvious romance cues.)  It's an obvious dialogue cue for people who want to romance Joker, and those who don't aren't ninja romanced.

I think there should be an obvious cue for when you're initiating something, like there was with Kaidan in ME1. It wasn't necessarily obvious by the taglines, but by the responses. I appreciated that. It made the relationship feel more real. So I agree here.

Brodyaha wrote...

Joker romance would be like an amazing combo between the Ashley and Kaidan romances of ME1--something genuine that evolved from friendship into something more.  A combination of Kaidan's wish to leave a way out, with Ashley's wit, combined with something uniquely and lovingly Joker.  <3

This, and again, this. I agree completely. I want a full and complex romantic plot, even if saving the Earth comes first. I'm not saving anything until I've undressed that helmsman!

[FenrisDeSolar]

NamiraWilhelm wrote...

I certainly think Joker would feel awkward about Shep, being a 'school girl' has nothing to do with it. Being emotionally guarded is not childish, many adults are, and having body language that expresses that fact is not childish either. Yes hes a grown man but hes a very emotionally guarded person, and not all 'school girl' behaviour is something you're conscious of while you're doing it. Its animal, like not noticing you biting your own nails or blushing. There would be a gap inbetween him telling himself to confess his feelings, and him actually doing so, and thats when that behaviour would arise. There will be an even longer gap because he's Joker, and it'd take him a fair while to get up the balls to put himself out there. Not to mention the impact it could have on the crew whether or not it lasts blah blah blah
But then this is all based on Shep not making the first move

edit: great post Sorrel

@JL81 Welcome, and do come back

Someone with the amount of self-awareness that Joker has would know fully well when he starts blushing, fidgeting or when he gets uncomfortable. As most people do. Being emotionally guarded is not the same as being emotionally inept. Blushing is fine, but avoiding eye-contact, and fidgeting are both behaviours related to a flee-instinct. It's avoidance. I reckon Joker would be confrontational when (if ever) he admits his feelings. That would be a behaviour linked with emotional rejection, which is more likely for someone who is a recluse.

But as me and Jilly just said, with so little about our beloved Joker set in stone, you're free to have your own opinions. I'm just basing mine on personal experiences and the little I know about psychology. It's like... my very own made up logic. 8D

[Trapper_920]

I would disagree because being self-aware and avoiding a topic that is uncomfortable would be blowing you off with a joke or sarcastic comment. Which avoids the whole blushing and fidgeting thing altogether.



On the other hand opening up and trying to have said uncomfortable conversation he could be fidgeting and staring off to a distance.



There is a reason he spends a lot of time on the extranet or whatever they call in in ME. Its just like me and the internet you could say. I can talk about things more freely than I could ever tell someone in person because of anonymity.



Believe it or not Joker is a geek and geeky people are not known to be social. Your welcome to you opinion of Joker but I don't think hes the confrontational guy. Confrontational is someone more like Jacob or T.I.M. they just have that sort of persona.

[NamiraWilhelm]

And you're free to have your own opinions Fenris, i just see him as emotionally retarded, and therefore will show the behaviours i described. Im also basing it on psychology, as well as personal experience.
And saying its 'school-girl' behaviour is honestly just offensive. There are thousands and thousands of adults that face issues like this everyday, and cant help it. Its not immature and school-girl, its miserable and stems from a difficult life, not one of them wish to have such poor confidence and disregarding it as immaturity is just awful.
Yes you might be aware of blushing fidgeting etc once you start doing it, but only once you start. No one would willingly behave like that, you might raise a hand to begin biting your nails and THEN put it back down, but it still happens. He's self aware, yes, in the sense that he might over-analyze every situation hes in, every sentence he and other people say, everything he could have done better etc. its different when it comes to himself.
And Trapper raises a good point, using humour to depreciate the situation is also very likely, but it all stems from the same feelings and wanting to make a joke of things he finds difficult to deal with.

Modifié par NamiraWilhelm, 26 décembre 2010 - 09:15 .

[Corephyfish]

Sorrel wrote...

Well, I think you might underestimate Joker's social skills in that department, specifically. Yes, we all know he can talk himself up about his piloting. But his skills with women? (Or men?)
This is a guy who -- from how he talks about flight school -- gives a zillion not-so-subtle hints to the listener that he's been passed up all his life because of who he is and what affects him physically. He's basically been relegated to being the Distant Observer for most things outside of his career. Hell, he was almost passed up for that, too. He had to bust his ass harder than everyone else to 'compensate' for his weaknesses.

He says a few times that he's not a people person and doesn't enjoy socializing. What opportunities does that give him to really connect with someone, especially on a romantic level? Joker's not a boy, certainly -- But I think the ways in which he'd respond to developing a serious emotional connection with someone would be boyish. Those feelings of his would be crude and undeveloped, raw from inexperience. Maybe Joker's messed around with some people, but I don't think I'm too far off the mark when I think he's not had a real relationship before. I think that would make him full of evasive looks and a bit of fidgeting.

Also, if he hasn't had a real relationship before just because of who he is, he's like... 28 or something? 30? I'm sure he'd have some bitter shame about that.

Consider this, too, Shepard is on a pedestal, high above pretty much anyone and everyone. I'm sure the 'I don't think s/he'd look at me when there are healthier people to pick from' thing has crossed his mind more than once, if we're speaking in terms of him being an actual person and thinking of how a relationship would form between them.

Shepard and Joker have a great rapport already, and the best boyfriends are friends first, so he's halfway there.

How I'd like to see it happen? A blurted compliment. A sudden backpedal. A defensive move. An admittance. A reluctant attempt. Plenty of room for one or two fidgets. Joker's not one, in my opinion, to really put his neck out when it comes to emotions. Who can blame him? Shepard's not got a steering column, so from the sounds of things he might have some fears about how to make his approach. I think if he was approached he might retract a bit. He'd need some chasing.

That said, I think if a LI path did go ahead, he'd be pretty much the most caring and attentive of all the personalities 'available' so to speak. He'd just do it in his own way. And that's why we love him, right?

This.

Nuff Said,

[Corephyfish]

OT but I wish a dev or someone would reply to OUR thread, every other 'companion romance' thread has had a reply, if only so that we know they are actually listening to us.



Back OT:



It would be awesome if the Joker Romance was in ME3, just because it has taken that long for them to maybe realise how they feel about each other. Joker was the one who has ALWAYS been there for you, hell you had to recruit Garrus and Tali, but he was right there from the start.



Build ups are more epic in the end.