7857 réponses à ce sujet

[NamiraWilhelm]

I would do the same, it'd be in a special room surrounded by security lasers and irritated venomous snakes.. and the Black Knight! And a rancor! Only the best for a signed Joker hat.

But yeah, if i knew Seth was going to be somewhere in England for some reason. I would go with hat in hand! I know hes doing a film at the mo, if there's a premier in Leicester square im freaking there!

[CDRSkyShepard]

Okay, random thought I had while I was in the shower that MIGHT just get me exiled from this thread forever...

So, y'all know the Doctor from Star Trek: Voyager, right? He's a hologram programmed to be a doctor in emergency situations, but when Voyager's entire medical staff is KIA 70,000 light years away from home (travel time at top speed would be 70+ years), he has to use his artificial intelligence to adapt to his circumstances and grow as an individual. Eventually, he gains the same rights as any flesh-and-blood human being on the ship and his feelings/actions are regarded as real, not merely a simulation.

Then there's EDI, who is the Normandy's AI, and we've always used the argument here that her emotions aren't real, they're simulated, and therefore she'd never have a "true" emotional attachment to Joker (be it romantic or motherly, I know we all prefer to think about it as the latter). So I was thinking maybe by that argument, we'd be saying that an entity like the Doctor would also not have "real" emotions and couldn't have a "true" emotional attachment to any of the crew because his emotions are a simulation. Or is the Doctor different in some way that makes it acceptable for us to say that yes, he's a real person with real emotions and EDI is not...? EDI doesn't have a body and is pretty much enslaved to the Normandy's computer, and we don't know if she can exist outside and separate from the computer like the Doctor can...so is it fair to make that distinction?

I think way too much when I take showers.

[Eliantariel]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Okay, random thought I had while I was in the shower that MIGHT just get me exiled from this thread forever...

So, y'all know the Doctor from Star Trek: Voyager, right? He's a hologram programmed to be a doctor in emergency situations, but when Voyager's entire medical staff is KIA 70,000 light years away from home (travel time at top speed would be 70+ years), he has to use his artificial intelligence to adapt to his circumstances and grow as an individual. Eventually, he gains the same rights as any flesh-and-blood human being on the ship and his feelings/actions are regarded as real, not merely a simulation.

Then there's EDI, who is the Normandy's AI, and we've always used the argument here that her emotions aren't real, they're simulated, and therefore she'd never have a "true" emotional attachment to Joker (be it romantic or motherly, I know we all prefer to think about it as the latter). So I was thinking maybe by that argument, we'd be saying that an entity like the Doctor would also not have "real" emotions and couldn't have a "true" emotional attachment to any of the crew because his emotions are a simulation. Or is the Doctor different in some way that makes it acceptable for us to say that yes, he's a real person with real emotions and EDI is not...? EDI doesn't have a body and is pretty much enslaved to the Normandy's computer, and we don't know if she can exist outside and separate from the computer like the Doctor can...so is it fair to make that distinction?

I think way too much when I take showers.

I know what you mean - by the way I really liked the doctor in voyager... great actor and singer too

I see it this way:

1. Voyager = Star Trek is a different setting than Mass Effect - it is science fiction but the fictional part is quite high and so it is possible that an AI in Voyager can have emotions but maybe not in Mass Effect - at the end it decides what the creators/writers think

For those who don't like pointing out the fictional part you can see it in this more scientific way: something may evolve in a way that we know but under different circumstances it is possible that things evolve in a different way. So maybe there will be indeed in the future AIs that evolve emotions but maybe due to special reasons this will not going to happen. So it may be possible but that doesn't mean it is going to happen.

2. For Mass Effect I would really wonder if EDI would get a human body. Some questions:

- does EDI want to be stuck in a human body when she was the complete Normandy before?
- And who should give her a body and why? Cerberus didn't - why should the alliance do this? 
- If EDI gets a body would she still be able to be the Normandy? If not I don't think she would be quite as useful as being the Normandy

If she gets a human body and would develop emotions/feelings I could see her as possible romance interest for different people but:

- how human is the body? Is it a body with blood and flesh and maybe an neuronal interface or some body similar to a robot with wires everywhere?
- Would real feelings change EDIs personality? Would she become maybe a danger for herself or the crew because she is not used to handle emotions?
- And even if everything would be fine that doesn't mean that everyone including Joker or Shep would fall in love with EDI....

So - I like EDI and I think most or all of us do. It is just very unlikely in my opinion that the writers would put so great efforts in the development of this character to make her a love interest - especially if by doing so the character could likely become implausible.

[CDRSkyShepard]

Eliantariel wrote...

I know what you mean - by the way I really liked the doctor in voyager... great actor and singer too

I see it this way:

1. Voyager = Star Trek is a different setting than Mass Effect - it is science fiction but the fictional part is quite high and so it is possible that an AI in Voyager can have emotions but maybe not in Mass Effect - at the end it decides what the creators/writers think

For those who don't like pointing out the fictional part you can see it in this more scientific way: something may evolve in a way that we know but under different circumstances it is possible that things evolve in a different way. So maybe there will be indeed in the future AIs that evolve emotions but maybe due to special reasons this will not going to happen. So it may be possible but that doesn't mean it is going to happen.

*snip*

Oh Eliantariel, I love your posts. The Doctor is bomb.

But I was thinking that all science fiction depicts society and technology as it could be in the future. If that is the case, is it possible for AIs to even have feelings that are "real" versus "simulated?" Or is the distinction merely that we see the character as "alive" versus just a part of the computer? While yes, ME and ST are two different universes and different ways of looking at it, they both try to explain what life would be like in the future. In that sense, I see it as comparing the two as apples to apples, not apples to oranges. (If that makes ANY sense...) I'd have to disagree with you when you say that ST is more "fictional," and I'd like to have you explain that a bit more before I delve into why...because I might be misunderstanding what you meant by that. Are you saying that it's more fictional that ME, that ME is more real-life? Maybe because ST further into the future? Star Trek: Enterprise takes place merely 30 years before the start of ME1, if we were to overlap the respective timelines...

In any case, neither continuum states whether or not emotions are merely simulated (maybe with the exception of Mordin saying that EDI's emotional inflections are simulated) or if they are "real" for that character. You could argue the case either way for the Doctor, the way I see it. The other characters might see it as "real" emotions because he feels real to them, and they acknowledge him as a real person, but that seems more to me of a society-based decision versus a technological specification. I was just thinking about it from that standpoint while I was in the shower, and I thought, by that logic, that maybe we'd been unfair to EDI in some respect, and that when I say EDI doesn't have legit emotions and the Doctor does...maybe I was being a...*gasp* hypocrite.

2. For Mass Effect I would really wonder if EDI would get a human body. Some questions:

- does EDI want to be stuck in a human body when she was the complete Normandy before?
- And who should give her a body and why? Cerberus didn't - why should the alliance do this? 
- If EDI gets a body would she still be able to be the Normandy? If not I don't think she would be quite as useful as being the Normandy

If she gets a human body and would develop emotions/feelings I could see her as possible romance interest for different people but:

- how human is the body? Is it a body with blood and flesh and maybe an neuronal interface or some body similar to a robot with wires everywhere?
- Would real feelings change EDIs personality? Would she become maybe a danger for herself or the crew because she is not used to handle emotions?
- And even if everything would be fine that doesn't mean that everyone including Joker or Shep would fall in love with EDI....

So - I like EDI and I think most or all of us do. It is just very unlikely in my opinion that the writers would put so great efforts in the development of this character to make her a love interest - especially if by doing so the character could likely become implausible.

I really think EDI should get a different VI interface, like the AIs from Halo or something. As far as a physical android body? No. Just a different visual representation. I'd like it even better if she just spoke as a disembodied voice a la Star Trek, but that's just me. Then it would seem like it was actually the ship talking, not something else separate from the ship.

Modifié par CDRSkyShepard, 29 juin 2011 - 05:53 .

[Eliantariel]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Oh Eliantariel, I love your posts. The Doctor is bomb.

But I was thinking that all science fiction depicts society and technology as it could be in the future. If that is the case, is it possible for AIs to even have feelings that are "real" versus "simulated?" Or is the distinction merely that we see the character as "alive" versus just a part of the computer? While yes, ME and ST are two different universes and different ways of looking at it, they both try to explain what life would be like in the future. In that sense, I see it as comparing the two as apples to apples, not apples to oranges. (If that makes ANY sense...) I'd have to disagree with you when you say that ST is more "fictional," and I'd like to have you explain that a bit more before I delve into why...because I might be misunderstanding what you meant by that. Are you saying that it's more fictional that ME, that ME is more real-life? Maybe because ST further into the future? Star Trek: Enterprise takes place merely 30 years before the start of ME1, if we were to overlap the respective timelines...

Oh sorry, that was a misunderstanding, I didn't want to say that ST is more fictional than ME - I just wanted to say that both have a big fictional part mixed with some science part.....

Well, you know people tend to "humanize" all kind of things, like giving your car a name or lay into the pc .... so I think a computer programm that would respond to you because it is programmed to respond to different actions could seem for us kind of alive but without really having a personality or emotions. This would be simulated.

If it is possible for a computer to develop feelings is a question that is not easy to answer. Even if computers can learn from mistakes I belive no one can really tell you if maybe one day a computer can develop emotions. I can imagine that something like this one day may be happen....

In any case, neither continuum states whether or not emotions are merely simulated (maybe with the exception of Mordin saying that EDI's emotional inflections are simulated) or if they are "real" for that character. You could argue the case either way for the Doctor, the way I see it. The other characters might see it as "real" emotions because he feels real to them, and they acknowledge him as a real person, but that seems more to me of a society-based decision versus a technological specification. I was just thinking about it from that standpoint while I was in the shower, and I thought, by that logic, that maybe we'd been unfair to EDI in some respect, and that when I say EDI doesn't have legit emotions and the Doctor does...maybe I was being a...*gasp* hypocrite.

You know I think we keep saying this (and my sig does so) because of the nice people who visit our thread and always come with the same argument that Joker belongs to EDI and of course the second silly comment that I will not repeat.

I really like EDI and I am sure many or all of this thread do so - this simplification of EDI sometimes is just because of these stupid comments about Joker and our jealousy

Nothing against NPC-NPC romance (but I can't see the developers putting to much effort on this with this already mega big project ME3) but with EDI having no body I think it would be difficult to really fall in love with her - I mean she is the Normandy and as this I am sure that Joker does love "his ship" including EDI but not in a way of a romantic relationship. I know there are people in RL where this kind of love is happening but this is more an exception. And with several beautiful woman (and men) on the Normandy I believe Joker would prefer one of them.

I really think EDI should get a different VI interface, like the AIs from Halo or something. As far as a physical android body? No. Just a different visual representation. I'd like it even better if she just spoke as a disembodied voice a la Star Trek, but that's just me. Then it would seem like it was actually the ship talking, not something else separate from the ship.

It would be nice to see a different interface for her - this could also be funny to see which different interfaces she would try out...

And I agree with you: a separate body for her would be strange, I would not like that

[CDRSkyShepard]

Eliantariel wrote...

*snippity snip snip*

You know I think we keep saying this (and my sig does so) because of the nice people who visit our thread and always come with the same argument that Joker belongs to EDI and of course the second silly comment that I will not repeat.

I really like EDI and I am sure many or all of this thread do so - this simplification of EDI sometimes is just because of these stupid comments about Joker and our jealousy

Nothing against NPC-NPC romance (but I can't see the developers putting to much effort on this with this already mega big project ME3) but with EDI having no body I think it would be difficult to really fall in love with her - I mean she is the Normandy and as this I am sure that Joker does love "his ship" including EDI but not in a way of a romantic relationship. I know there are people in RL where this kind of love is happening but this is more an exception. And with several beautiful woman (and men) on the Normandy I believe Joker would prefer one of them.

*snip again*

Well, I wasn't thinking that our reasoning for Joker to not romance EDI was invalid, but that maybe part of the argument we use being "she only has simulated emotions and therefore cannot ever love/like/really feel anything towards Joker" didn't hold much water if we thought about similar characters in the sci-fi multiverse. But I still hold out that Joker can't romance EDI and vice versa because she has no physical form and because she's the ship's computer...it was the "simulated emotions" part that got me thinking. Lol.

As always, so eloquently stated. 

[Koji-san]

i would rather they not give her any sort of physical or virtual body. Not b/c of my jealousy of Joker but b/c I'm sick and tired of all the sexy VIs in video-game-land. ME did it, Halo did it and I'm sure there's umpteen more examples I haven't seen. Seriously, why so they have to be sexy and/or scantily-clad?! It doesn't make sense. Just put on a bleepin' shirt already!!

[SolarDiamond]

I really hope they do not give EDI a body. That would be so very limiting to "her" usefulness. Robot EDI would not have been able to save Joker from the Collectors by opening the airlocks and spewing them all out into space.

As for the simulated emotions -- the best EDI could do is to mimic since she lacks the physical body and chemicals to feel anything. In my reasoning she would be able to observe crew behavior and denote what is appropriate for certain situations. I'm of the opinion that she began displaying a sense of humor since Joker is the funny guy and is likely the one she interacts the most with.

I will be very, very sad if BioWare goes the "Joker is with EDI" route. Very sad indeed.

Edit: I said the best she could do is sympathize, but really she couldn't even do that. 

Modifié par SolarDiamond, 02 juillet 2011 - 05:14 .

[phantomdragoness]

I love EDI, but I hope they don't give EDI another form. I like her as she is - giving her a virtual body would ruin her for me.

[Eliantariel]

phantomdragoness wrote...

I love EDI, but I hope they don't give EDI another form. I like her as she is - giving her a virtual body would ruin her for me.

It would not  make sense in my opinion. Why should they give her a different form and who should do it? I think the alliance has other things to do and on their list....

Not much posts here recently, it seems that people have been wandering to the ME3 forum and stayed there. I hope this is not the result of the EDI discussion....

But to summarize: EDI is great how she is and this is how she should remain

[NamiraWilhelm]

 So theres this random .. article THING. It mentions BSN AND it mentions our ME2 thread!!! Our OP to be specific lol

Scroll down on this page to see what hes said. Its kinda weird coz i know people who are mentioned in this thing, wonder if they know

www.somethingawful.com/d/weekend-web/bioware-social-forums.php

[Eliantariel]

NamiraWilhelm wrote...

 So theres this random .. article THING. It mentions BSN AND it mentions our ME2 thread!!! Our OP to be specific lol

Scroll down on this page to see what hes said. Its kinda weird coz i know people who are mentioned in this thing, wonder if they know

www.somethingawful.com/d/weekend-web/bioware-social-forums.php

Hmh a collection of posts of people talking about romance in computer games...

But this article seem to see this as a strange thing. I suppose they never heard of role-playing games.

What I really appreciate about Mass Effect and Bioware is that it is a trilogy and that Bioware is listening to the fans. To know that we fans have the possibility to have an effect on ME3 is what really got me to this forum, so whatever happens in ME3 I can at least say that I tried to get a Jokermance. 

If people feel weird reading this post, thread or in this forum should stay outside - nobody is forced to read romance threads

[phantomdragoness]

We may look strange to outsiders, but it's their problem if they don't choose to understand.

I think we're epic. XD

[NamiraWilhelm]

Im choosing to stay away from that hate thread... i will not be tempted to look...

Anyway, Casey has tweeted this

CaseyDHudson
For the next set of #MassEffect3 screenshots, what are you hoping to see most? Ashley in armor? A first look at James Vega? Something else?

Now, i think you should all head over to his twitter and reply CANWEHAVESOMEJOKERPLZ? K THNX BI

I did.

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson

[viggorrah]

phantomdragoness wrote...

We may look strange to outsiders, but it's their problem if they don't choose to understand.

I think we're epic. XD

A) We ARE strange. Some of us. *eye twitch*

 We ARE epic. All of us. XD

@Nam: I wanna stalk you on Twitter-- I mean, follow you. On Twitter. Which is pretty much stalking.

[Trapper_920]

Eliantariel wrote...

NamiraWilhelm wrote...

 So theres this random .. article THING. It mentions BSN AND it mentions our ME2 thread!!! Our OP to be specific lol

Scroll down on this page to see what hes said. Its kinda weird coz i know people who are mentioned in this thing, wonder if they know

www.somethingawful.com/d/weekend-web/bioware-social-forums.php

Hmh a collection of posts of people talking about romance in computer games...

But this article seem to see this as a strange thing. I suppose they never heard of role-playing games.

What I really appreciate about Mass Effect and Bioware is that it is a trilogy and that Bioware is listening to the fans. To know that we fans have the possibility to have an effect on ME3 is what really got me to this forum, so whatever happens in ME3 I can at least say that I tried to get a Jokermance. 

If people feel weird reading this post, thread or in this forum should stay outside - nobody is forced to read romance threads

Definitely agree with you. They also don't have do any romance in the game that they don't want to. So there is no reason for anyone to come in just to complain about it.

As for that article I was really sadened by not getting into it. I mean its great they got our Joker thread for publicity's sake. Though I really wanted to see me in there....

[NamiraWilhelm]

viggorah, you can stalk me but i dont do much, just stalk other people, mainly hotties and bioware devs

[phantomdragoness]

Twitter is society's acceptable form of stalking.

Oh...new rule for thread:
Must stalk Seth Green on Twitter. XD

[NamiraWilhelm]

Way ahead of ya ! Its basically him, one other hottie, comedians, and bioware devs. Whoop

[viggorrah]

If I can find you I'll follow you. I don't do much either, just random tweets and then replies to BioWare devs that I'm sure they ignore.

@phantom: Yeah, I'm ahead of you too. XD I've been watching his like a hawk, just waiting for something about Joker.

[NamiraWilhelm]

viggorrah wrote...

If I can find you I'll follow you. I don't do much either, just random tweets and then replies to BioWare devs that I'm sure they ignore.

@phantom: Yeah, I'm ahead of you too. XD I've been watching his like a hawk, just waiting for something about Joker.

NamiraNerd, viggie xxx

[Trapper_920]

NamiraWilhelm wrote...

viggorrah wrote...

If I can find you I'll follow you. I don't do much either, just random tweets and then replies to BioWare devs that I'm sure they ignore.

@phantom: Yeah, I'm ahead of you too. XD I've been watching his like a hawk, just waiting for something about Joker.

NamiraNerd, viggie xxx

Hope you don't mind that I added you on twitter too.



Edit: Made image link to twitter.

Modifié par Trapper_920, 09 juillet 2011 - 02:40 .

[FenrisDeSolar]

I am FenrisDeSolar everywhere, so I should be fairly easy to find, Vigg.

[NamiraWilhelm]

Hey Fen you should make a sig out of your plugged in the overlord thing. Plenty of pics of Joker looking like hes... plugged in


edit: totally unrelated but in regards to the samoyed thing, it was meant to be a clip coz she keeps getting too hot, but i should have been more specific i guess lol

Modifié par NamiraWilhelm, 09 juillet 2011 - 02:42 .

[Trapper_920]

Off topic I made a comment after Fen did about your dog.

On topic do we still have a banner page or something? and I'd like to see what you come up with for an Overlord sig banner.