178 réponses à ce sujet

[Abrazxas]

ZennExile I respect your right to your opinion, so let other have the same respec for theirs. ME2 is a good RPG, albeit kind of stripped down to be easy to pick up and go. IF you have an issue with the lack of more traditional RPG elements, just don't play. Let those who consider it a good game and part of the canon enjoy it. I was at almost 30 hours of game play before Omega 4, because I am meticulous and like to enjoy the elements that the game provides for my entertainment. It is a good game. ME1 is a good game. Everything is good.

[jackkel dragon]

ZennExile wrote...

verskk wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

ME 1 was hardly overwhelmingly huge when in fact most of the hugeness was represented in driving on planets with the Mako. It is true, you explore less planets in ME 2, but you undercut your point when you mentioned the Mako as outside of those missions, what "huge" and varied experience was there?

ME 1 was actually very short if you just wanted to beat it. Basically, you do Eden Prime, the Citadel, the immediately knock out Noveria, Feros and then Virmire. Bam, you are at the end game and probably have about an hour or so of gaming left. So basically five locations and you can finish the game?

In ME 2, if you try to rush the game most of your squad will die and leave you with a very bad save game.

There's the difference though you are mistaken about ME2 and rushing.

ME1 gave you the choice to explore and expand the game the way you wanted AND let people who wanted to rush it just burn through.   These things combined with large lanscapes and branching sidequests gave the game a "feel" of enormity.  Even though the actual gamespace wasn't huge it still felt huge.

BUT

ME2 is much shorter even than ME1.  Fact.  I can clear ME2 in 10 hours on a fresh playthrough (imported from ME1 of course).  You can't clear ME1 in 10 hours on your first playthough.

My 7 hour play-through of ME1 disagrees.

If you load up a fresh game (not NG+) and clear in 7 hours I'll eat a live hampster on camera and post it on Youtube.  Otherwise yer smokith do not belongith up my assith.... kthnx

Day before ME2 came out, I burned through ME to refresh myself with the story. (After burning through it twice in the past week.)

NG+: LVL 59, 5 hours
NG+: LVL 60, 15 hours
NG: LVL 1, 6 hours, 33 mins

Sue me for skipping the conversations on Eden Prime...

[verskk]

Default137 wrote...

My longest playthrough for ME1 right now is 11 hours, thats with gathering all the metals I could off unexplored worlds, doing all the sidequests I could find, dying alot because I was playing a fairly bad class, and all sorts of other problems as well. Most normal playthroughs I can get done in anywhere from 7-9 hours.

My shortest playthough for ME2 so far is 17 hours, this is with skipping alot of quests, not really doing any scanning, and ignoring most peoples loyalty quests, as well as with a hefty amount of knowing where everything is, and skipping as much content as I could.

You were saying?

Haha, my shortest may be 7 hours, but my longest was definitely 40+. I love just spending time loitering around the characters and places in ME1 and ME2. It hurt my soul to skip so much to complete it in 7 hours (I had to stop to eat and everything, too).

[screwoffreg]

ZennExile wrote...

Default137 wrote...

My longest playthrough for ME1 right now is 11 hours, thats with gathering all the metals I could off unexplored worlds, doing all the sidequests I could find, dying alot because I was playing a fairly bad class, and all sorts of other problems as well. Most normal playthroughs I can get done in anywhere from 7-9 hours.

My shortest playthough for ME2 so far is 17 hours, this is with skipping alot of quests, not really doing any scanning, and ignoring most peoples loyalty quests, as well as with a hefty amount of knowing where everything is, and skipping as much content as I could.

You were saying?

Sure you did.  No I believe you.

ME 1 can be pretty short since even on a fresh game, you know most of the dialogue, you know exactly what to expect and do.  If you press space half the time to end conversations, that saves you a lot of time, though it is kind of lame.

[Daeion]

Default137 wrote...

My longest playthrough for ME1 right now is 11 hours, thats with gathering all the metals I could off unexplored worlds, doing all the sidequests I could find, dying alot because I was playing a fairly bad class, and all sorts of other problems as well. Most normal playthroughs I can get done in anywhere from 7-9 hours.

My shortest playthough for ME2 so far is 17 hours, this is with skipping alot of quests, not really doing any scanning, and ignoring most peoples loyalty quests, as well as with a hefty amount of knowing where everything is, and skipping as much content as I could.

You were saying?

My longest on Me1 was 40+ without doing all the sidequests, the first time I beat ME2 while doing everything took my about 35, you were saying?

[KainrycKarr]

Daeion wrote...

Default137 wrote...

My longest playthrough for ME1 right now is 11 hours, thats with gathering all the metals I could off unexplored worlds, doing all the sidequests I could find, dying alot because I was playing a fairly bad class, and all sorts of other problems as well. Most normal playthroughs I can get done in anywhere from 7-9 hours.

My shortest playthough for ME2 so far is 17 hours, this is with skipping alot of quests, not really doing any scanning, and ignoring most peoples loyalty quests, as well as with a hefty amount of knowing where everything is, and skipping as much content as I could.

You were saying?

My longest on Me1 was 40+ without doing all the sidequests, the first time I beat ME2 while doing everything took my about 35, you were saying?

how did you manage to fail your way through 40 hours of ME1 WITHOUT the sidequests? No offense, but I would find it challenging to take more than 25 hours maximum to do the main plot.

[ModProp]

For this challenge, are you calculating the time for mandatory cutscenes?

[Palpatine77]

Lothial wrote...

There was really nothing in this game that I liked less than the first. I'll even take scanning over spending 3 minutes trying to get the Mako up a cliff.

I know some people don't care for the resource collecting this time around by scanning planets, but you said it perfectly Lothial: I too will take scanning a planet over getting frustrated trying to get the Mako up a cliff just to get some resources. Scanning the planets may get a tad tedious after a while, but at least it's never frustrating.

[ZennExile]

Daeion wrote...

Default137 wrote...

My longest playthrough for ME1 right now is 11 hours, thats with gathering all the metals I could off unexplored worlds, doing all the sidequests I could find, dying alot because I was playing a fairly bad class, and all sorts of other problems as well. Most normal playthroughs I can get done in anywhere from 7-9 hours.

My shortest playthough for ME2 so far is 17 hours, this is with skipping alot of quests, not really doing any scanning, and ignoring most peoples loyalty quests, as well as with a hefty amount of knowing where everything is, and skipping as much content as I could.

You were saying?

My longest on Me1 was 40+ without doing all the sidequests, the first time I beat ME2 while doing everything took my about 35, you were saying?

The difference that this poster is eluding to is that ME1 has much mroe availible gameplay than ME2 does.  You can completely clear ME2 doing every mission, making all your teamates loyal AND with 100% on all solar systems in 35 hours total.  To do everything in ME1 takes almost 3 times that long.  Hense MUCH LARGER GAME.

But really though if anyone thinks they can clear ME1 in 7 hours, hampsters only cost 6 bucks and I has an HD webcam.  I will eat a live hampster if you care to prove your 7 hour theory.

[ZennExile]

ModProp wrote...

For this challenge, are you calculating the time for mandatory cutscenes?

They are technically part of the game...  I don't think it will matter though.

Oh and you have to do it on console.  Too easy to cheat on the PC version.  =P

[verskk]

ZennExile wrote...

ModProp wrote...

For this challenge, are you calculating the time for mandatory cutscenes?

They are technically part of the game...  I don't think it will matter though.

Oh and you have to do it on console.  Too easy to cheat on the PC version.  =P

My 7-hour was on console. My laptop is horrible for gaming.

[jackkel dragon]

ZennExile wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Default137 wrote...

My longest playthrough for ME1 right now is 11 hours, thats with gathering all the metals I could off unexplored worlds, doing all the sidequests I could find, dying alot because I was playing a fairly bad class, and all sorts of other problems as well. Most normal playthroughs I can get done in anywhere from 7-9 hours.

My shortest playthough for ME2 so far is 17 hours, this is with skipping alot of quests, not really doing any scanning, and ignoring most peoples loyalty quests, as well as with a hefty amount of knowing where everything is, and skipping as much content as I could.

You were saying?

My longest on Me1 was 40+ without doing all the sidequests, the first time I beat ME2 while doing everything took my about 35, you were saying?

The difference that this poster is eluding to is that ME1 has much mroe availible gameplay than ME2 does.  You can completely clear ME2 doing every mission, making all your teamates loyal AND with 100% on all solar systems in 35 hours total.  To do everything in ME1 takes almost 3 times that long.  Hense MUCH LARGER GAME.

But really though if anyone thinks they can clear ME1 in 7 hours, hampsters only cost 6 bucks and I has an HD webcam.  I will eat a live hampster if you care to prove your 7 hour theory.

I don't need you to eat a hamster, but 6:33 is shorter than 7 hours. Rundown:
Skipped Eden Prime Conversations
NO Side Quests
Ran past most optional enemies
No Reloads (surprisingly)
Always took quickest path in the story

Without trying to speed I once got a 7:40... also without sidequests.

I did get a 55+ hour game once. Feel the burn of getting every last resource out of the mountains twenty miles away from the drop site.

A lot of time in ME1 was dead travel time, some people might be glad they spend less time walking around... (Especially since some people don't like the walking animations.)

ME2 Completion: 33-34 hours. Complete, as far as I know. Still liked it better.

[Mr.Skar]

I think the loss of the awe factor is something that you see in other middle acts of a trilogy. Not all of them are like this, but a lot are. Most of the time, a trilogy has the Big First Book (movie/game/comic/whatever) that introduces the world and the main characters, plus the villain and/or big conflict. The second act can falter because they can only further the main story so much before the Big Finish. Add to that the need to expand the universe and give the main characters a conflict worthy of their attention, and it's no real surprise when people get let down.



That said, not all middle acts of all trilogies fail in this. I think ME2 did a good job of further expanding the ME universe, including adding interesting characters. Not to thrilled with the overall plot, but it served the game well enough.

[jackkel dragon]

Mr.Skar wrote...

I think the loss of the awe factor is something that you see in other middle acts of a trilogy. Not all of them are like this, but a lot are. Most of the time, a trilogy has the Big First Book (movie/game/comic/whatever) that introduces the world and the main characters, plus the villain and/or big conflict. The second act can falter because they can only further the main story so much before the Big Finish. Add to that the need to expand the universe and give the main characters a conflict worthy of their attention, and it's no real surprise when people get let down.

That said, not all middle acts of all trilogies fail in this. I think ME2 did a good job of further expanding the ME universe, including adding interesting characters. Not to thrilled with the overall plot, but it served the game well enough.

Yes.

[ODST 3]

laffy007 wrote...
Example: heat clips? appearently guns cannot cool off on there own anymore.

One example to an insignificant gameplay change that can be easily overlooked if you aren't a ****. Got any more?

[ZennExile]

Palpatine77 wrote...

Lothial wrote...

There was really nothing in this game that I liked less than the first. I'll even take scanning over spending 3 minutes trying to get the Mako up a cliff.

I know some people don't care for the resource collecting this time around by scanning planets, but you said it perfectly Lothial: I too will take scanning a planet over getting frustrated trying to get the Mako up a cliff just to get some resources. Scanning the planets may get a tad tedious after a while, but at least it's never frustrating.

You know this never made any sense to me.  I cleared every single planet in the game and never once had to climb a cliff to get to a resource.  I can see how people would asume that a straight line is the best path but eventually didn't it occur to you that maybe the best path was around the other side of the hill?

[verskk]

ZennExile wrote...

Palpatine77 wrote...

Lothial wrote...

There was really nothing in this game that I liked less than the first. I'll even take scanning over spending 3 minutes trying to get the Mako up a cliff.

I know some people don't care for the resource collecting this time around by scanning planets, but you said it perfectly Lothial: I too will take scanning a planet over getting frustrated trying to get the Mako up a cliff just to get some resources. Scanning the planets may get a tad tedious after a while, but at least it's never frustrating.

You know this never made any sense to me.  I cleared every single planet in the game and never once had to climb a cliff to get to a resource.  I can see how people would asume that a straight line is the best path but eventually didn't it occur to you that maybe the best path was around the other side of the hill?

You may keep a quicker pace, but there's not much of a time difference between slowly scaling a hill or quickly taking a mountain-sized detour. 6 of one, as they say.

[ZennExile]

Mr.Skar wrote...

I think the loss of the awe factor is something that you see in other middle acts of a trilogy. Not all of them are like this, but a lot are. Most of the time, a trilogy has the Big First Book (movie/game/comic/whatever) that introduces the world and the main characters, plus the villain and/or big conflict. The second act can falter because they can only further the main story so much before the Big Finish. Add to that the need to expand the universe and give the main characters a conflict worthy of their attention, and it's no real surprise when people get let down.

That said, not all middle acts of all trilogies fail in this. I think ME2 did a good job of further expanding the ME universe, including adding interesting characters. Not to thrilled with the overall plot, but it served the game well enough.

I like the game, I just wish it felt more like a sequel to ME1 and less like DLC they fergot to release.  ME2 is just too small and didn't take advantage of the great parts of the original.  It's not that I think ME2 is a bad game.  It's that I know for a fact it could have been much better had they not left out 2/3 of the experience.

I loved Gears of War but even Gear had sweet vehicles... ME2 doesn't even have vehicles let alone feel like a massive RPG should.  I felt like I was burning through a shooter and there was no branching or choice.  You follow a path to the end and done.  There weren't even cool boss encounters.  Just dudes with more health bars than their underlings and then the final boss that was, luckluster at best.

[Jigero]

I like how logic doesn't exist in this thread.



I'm sure EA has better ways to **** up a game then by throwing in Ammo clips.

[Default137]

ZennExile wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Default137 wrote...

My longest playthrough for ME1 right now is 11 hours, thats with gathering all the metals I could off unexplored worlds, doing all the sidequests I could find, dying alot because I was playing a fairly bad class, and all sorts of other problems as well. Most normal playthroughs I can get done in anywhere from 7-9 hours.

My shortest playthough for ME2 so far is 17 hours, this is with skipping alot of quests, not really doing any scanning, and ignoring most peoples loyalty quests, as well as with a hefty amount of knowing where everything is, and skipping as much content as I could.

You were saying?

My longest on Me1 was 40+ without doing all the sidequests, the first time I beat ME2 while doing everything took my about 35, you were saying?

The difference that this poster is eluding to is that ME1 has much mroe availible gameplay than ME2 does.  You can completely clear ME2 doing every mission, making all your teamates loyal AND with 100% on all solar systems in 35 hours total.  To do everything in ME1 takes almost 3 times that long.  Hense MUCH LARGER GAME.

I will agree with this.

ME1 is a larger game in terms of actual physical ingame space, the hundreds of planets you can explore are a testament to this, as if you really went around on each on, and just drove around, you could probably easily put anywhere from 40-60 hours into the game. However, this is not without its flaws, because so much time and effort was put into making the galaxy "feel" bigger, there are very few good sidequests, and on an average run, according to this thread, most people could clear the main quest in 6-9 hours.

ME2 is a much smaller world, none of the planets are super huge, the Citadel got shrunk, and its fairly linear, I'll admit, but as you yourself said, if you do everything ME2 has to offer for the Main Quest/Sidequests, it can take anywhere from 35-40 hours to clear everything, which is actually fairly significant for an RPG of this day and age with graphical limitations.

So the question is, are the copy pasted explorable planets worth a shortened main quest? Would you rather have a 7 hour story, and the chance to get stuck in rocks with your Mako, or would you rather have a 20-40 hour story, with no explortation ( but they are adding the Hammerhead thing, which will presumably allow you to explore )? Personally, I much prefer ME2.

[Abrazxas]

ZennExile wrote...

Daeion wrote...

Default137 wrote...

My longest playthrough for ME1 right now is 11 hours, thats with gathering all the metals I could off unexplored worlds, doing all the sidequests I could find, dying alot because I was playing a fairly bad class, and all sorts of other problems as well. Most normal playthroughs I can get done in anywhere from 7-9 hours.

My shortest playthough for ME2 so far is 17 hours, this is with skipping alot of quests, not really doing any scanning, and ignoring most peoples loyalty quests, as well as with a hefty amount of knowing where everything is, and skipping as much content as I could.

You were saying?

My longest on Me1 was 40+ without doing all the sidequests, the first time I beat ME2 while doing everything took my about 35, you were saying?

The difference that this poster is eluding to is that ME1 has much mroe availible gameplay than ME2 does.  You can completely clear ME2 doing every mission, making all your teamates loyal AND with 100% on all solar systems in 35 hours total.  To do everything in ME1 takes almost 3 times that long.  Hense MUCH LARGER GAME.

But really though if anyone thinks they can clear ME1 in 7 hours, hampsters only cost 6 bucks and I has an HD webcam.  I will eat a live hampster if you care to prove your 7 hour theory.

I finished my first run through from 1-50 doing every planet I could land on and all sidce quests, including X57 in just over 37 hours.  I am now just past 35 hours on my first playtjrough in ME2 with a 5 level head start, and I still have probably 5 or so extra assignments left and atleast 5 systems I need to fully explore without mining to get everything done.  Seems pretty similar to me....

[ZennExile]

verskk wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

Palpatine77 wrote...

Lothial wrote...

There was really nothing in this game that I liked less than the first. I'll even take scanning over spending 3 minutes trying to get the Mako up a cliff.

I know some people don't care for the resource collecting this time around by scanning planets, but you said it perfectly Lothial: I too will take scanning a planet over getting frustrated trying to get the Mako up a cliff just to get some resources. Scanning the planets may get a tad tedious after a while, but at least it's never frustrating.

You know this never made any sense to me.  I cleared every single planet in the game and never once had to climb a cliff to get to a resource.  I can see how people would asume that a straight line is the best path but eventually didn't it occur to you that maybe the best path was around the other side of the hill?

You may keep a quicker pace, but there's not much of a time difference between slowly scaling a hill or quickly taking a mountain-sized detour. 6 of one, as they say.

Yeah I guess so.  I liked exploring planets though.  I loved the wierd critters and killin the Threshers.  I was so hoping they would put some effort into making planets more unique in ME2.  I was really dissapointed when I realised there is no exploration at all.

[binaryemperor]

I love blaming EA. It makes me feel good inside. No I'm not being sarcastic.

[Kinkaku]

ZennExile wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

KalosCast wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

KalosCast wrote...

ZennExile wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Stop whining and go play Dragon Age. Mass Effect is Mass Effect, and most of us rather like it.

More people liked Mass Effect the "RPG" than ME2 the "Shooter".  So most of "Us" actually like the real Mass Effect.  Thank you for your completely useless input though.

Mass Effect 1 was a shooter with a horrendous inventory system and terrible AI. Shut the **** up already.

So you never played it?  Or you played a demo and decided you'd wait for the sequel?

Have you? The Inventory in ME is ****. 99% of the items you get are nothing more than vendor-trash in a game where money doesn't even matter, and on the higher diffulties, every enemy but snipers and geth hoppers just charge your position, making the largely broken sticky-cover completely pointless. And there was no reason to put anything other than First Aid/Medical interfaces into your armor unless you liked using medigel. Squad members also rarely followed "hold position" orders if issued before combat, trodding stupidly in afterwards and spoiling any attempt at a tactical ambush.

Mass Effect 1 and 2 are good games, but compared to its sequel, the first game's management aspects were a chore.

So instead of improving them they removed them.  Good call.  Hugely successful game and you gut it and strip it down to 1/4 its potential to release a sequel.  ME2 is like if Transformers 2 didn't have Bumblebee in it...  Sure it's still transformers and still good but it woulda been better if they kept Bumblebee in it.

Do you get it?

Of course no one liked the vast empty spaces on planets and the broken ass mako.  But the issues were not so severe that they warrented removal from the game.  They could have easily been improved.

And yes I played the hell out of Mass Effect like millions of other people did and loved it.   You know that pile of millions that's bigger than the smaller pile that are playing and loving ME2...

What a foolish last line.  Are all RPG players so smug?  No, YOU DON'T KNOW that more people are not enjoying ME 2 as a matter of fact.  This forum is not the end all be all of the gaming industry.  Some of the harshest reviews of ME 2 still gave it a 9/10, so what does that tell you?

It tells me the game is good.  I never denied this.

The game isn't as good as ME1 was nor does it feel like the sequel to it.  That's the point. 

Also ME1 earned its metal.  There was no massive marketing blitz pushing it.  Millions of people just picked it up and said "Hey guys this game is fuxin sawheat".  That combined with the fact that ME1 sold way more copies that ME2 leads me to the unavoidable conclusion that way more people liked the first one than this one. 

And you let it slip that you are not an RPG fan.  Why would your perspective lend any value to the conversation about RPG elements if you aren't an RPG player and therefor could give a kick in the ..quad.. less about RPG elemtns?  Just need a reason to say "NU UUH MY THINGY"

Tell me then when did marketing for the game end up being bad and them selling 2 million copies of the game in the first week? where did that go wrong? Then having most love it it? i guess everything good for the game is bad for you cause u like the broken ass inventory system and annoying/buggy combat system and the stupid ass AI when ur teamates were shooting at a wall when it was clearly not hitting the enemy after a good 2 mins in ME1

Yet ME2 is a huge leap forward

Modifié par Akiios, 04 février 2010 - 05:40 .

[Pauravi]

ZennExile wrote...

skip the major RPG elements because they will take too long and cost too much money

LOLWUT??

By "RPG elements" did you mean the incredible dialogue and voice acting, or the inventory system?
Because the actual RP -- the story and characters -- were brilliant; they certainly didn't skip those.  For my money, those are the only RPG elements I care about.  The inventory system I could give a flying f**k about.  Managing equipment is just tedious, and the new system is more realistic anyway; carrying around 35 suits of armor and 17 shotguns is preposterous.