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[sberna78]

I LOVE when I come back into this thread and there's like 8-9 pages to read through...

Spreadin' the Kaidan love...<3

I'm not all that fond of the whole Horizon situation either, I agree with a lot of you in regards to that....

I could have handled, or rather would have been a bit more satisfied going on with the game had that played out a bit differently.

Don't get me wrong, I do love ME2 and have had a lot of fun playing it...it and ME1 are fantastic games in their own right, but ugh Horizon was just not well....done really all that well IMO.

I've got the highest respect for the game devs at Bioware and I'm positive that they work VERY hard and try to do what they can to make games that will satisfy and please their fans.

I also realize that in a sense, that whole scene with Kaidan/Ash on Horizon was meant to serve as a justification, or rather an explanation as to why they couldn't be with you on this mission....but yeah I am a little dissapointed with the cookie cutter approach they took in that scenario...

But yah, I'm not sure how Manshep's lines were (are they the same?), but Femshep's dialogue options were just...ICK...I understand that she's a super strong/badass/hero of the galaxy, but maybe they could have had her sound a little less robotic? Even if you didn't romance Kaidan, it still IMO sounded like you were talking to someone you'd meet in line at the supermarket...and for those of us that did romance Kaidan, while Kaidan certainly referred to their relationship (I loved you, losing you tore me up inside), I don't know...I guess while I understand that Shep isn't going to be the best when it comes to matters of the heart, there's a part of me that would have liked to hear her say something along the lines of  how she's glad to see he's okay, she missed him, she's sorry about the pain he's gone through and perhaps a little more insistence that he listen when she discusses her involvement with cerberus/the fact that she's been "dead" for 2 years.

And yah, one of the main reasons I avoid talking to Jacob at all (unless it's required by the plot, like the beginning bits and getting his loyalty mission) is because of the way Femshep sounds when speaking to him....umm not cool. 

I was also wondering why Kaidan didn't use any of his super cool biotic powers when attacked on Horizon...it doesn't seem like him to just blindly start shooting like that, when I heard that the Ashley scenario is pretty much indentical, well.....there ya' go, that cookie cutter thing again....couldn't have Kaidan use his biotics, because then they'd have to make an entirely (well mostly) different bit for Ashley and why spend the time doing that when these folks are only going to be in the game itself for such a short time?

I don't know.....I'm just a little dissapointed and REALLY hoping that things are different in ME3...I realize that it might be quite a bit more work, but it'd be great to see Ashley and Kaidan fleshed out more, each with their own unique dialogue/scenarios...I'm optimistic that with all the devs comments regarding LI's, that might be the case...but I gather they said stuff about ME2 that didn't really pan out, so in reality,I guess the only thing we can do is wait and hope...

oh and ladies...good job on not feeding the trolls...;)

[MICHELLE7]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Another poll: Kaidan is the last choice in the list.

http://social.biowar...859/polls/2361/

Kaidan is winning by a long shot in this one. 46% right now.

[BECC4]

Sialater wrote...
None of them should fade into the background, I don't think.   They should ALL be further developed. Though if you get Liara back, I doubt you have need of Samara, but then she says she's leaving anyway.  But a the very least, none of the romancables in ME1 or ME2, no matter what you did with them, should be gotten rid of.  Yes, even Jacob should stay.   You can't get Wrex back, he's busy being King of Tutchanka, so Grunt can stay and Mordin and Legion are unique.  (And between the two of them, I'm pretty sure Mordin and Chakwas can cure Thane, you just have to go get some bizarre exotic and rare ingredient from a far off planet in the backside of nowhere.)  I think there's room on Normandy II for two spare squadmates, however they get there.

I have nothing against Thane per say but if they're prepared to 'cure' Thane then why not have Ash make a miracle survival and return too?  It's silly, just like curing Joker, Cerb may have improved him with implants etc but they can't cure him because it would require rebuilding his bones.  Thane's disease has essentially destroyed his lungs, they would have to rebuild his lungs.  Now there won't be a project Lazarus for them, so I think he was always intended to die.  Mordin is older than the average Salarian, as much as I like him it would be easy to get rid of him as you said Samara is unlikely to stick around, Zaeed sucks so I couldn't care less what happens to him.

Dunno I just get the feeling it doesn't bode well for the ME2 folks.

[Jhourney]

MICHELLE7 wrote...
Yeah, I think that Tali and Garrus are proof that they are not that bound by making a stand alone game as some people believe. They found a way to work Chakwas and Joker in as well. And if Joker couldn't die why couldn't Kaidan have been on the ship too...and not died(they could have made it work somehow. I think Horizon may have just been a cop-out because they didn't want to put to much effort into it...like I said before...an afterthought.

He could have actually went with Shep and the squad members on the shuttle as the shuttle pilot and been spared being taken or killed by the collectors. Comes back with Shep and remains with Joker as Shep and the squaddies take on the collectors. And they could have come up with some reason for him to stay behind...maybe he was needed on the ship or maybe his L2 implant was removed(wating for an upgrade)...they could have come up with something. I just think they could have done better that's all...hopefully ME3 will be. Don't mind me...I'm just rambling again.

I hope it will all make sense in ME3. That they did what they did because there's more to Kaidan than just being Shepard's love interest in the trilogy. That Bioware gave him a purpose besides serving at her side, a strong purpose that will compliment Shepards when the time comes. That everything happened because, like Shepard, he had little choice in the matter. That he too is tied down by a mission or assignment on a universal scale.
That once the trilogy is over we'll sit here in awe because it was so beautifully done in the end, as a whole, as a story. The growing love of ME1, the heartbreak and emptiness of ME2 and then the conclusion of love, the peace and finally the future they both deserve of ME3.

Yes, I can live with that.

Modifié par Jhosephine, 18 février 2010 - 06:46 .

[BECC4]

MICHELLE7 wrote...
Yeah, I think that Tali and Garrus are proof that they are not that bound by making a stand alone game as some people believe. They found a way to work Chakwas and Joker in as well. And if Joker couldn't die why couldn't Kaidan have been on the ship too...and not died(they could have made it work somehow. I think Horizon may have just been a cop-out because they didn't want to put to much effort into it...like I said before...an afterthought.

He could have actually went with Shep and the squad members on the shuttle as the shuttle pilot and been spared being taken or killed by the collectors. Comes back with Shep and remains with Joker as Shep and the squaddies take on the collectors. And they could have come up with some reason for him to stay behind...maybe he was needed on the ship or maybe his L2 implant was removed(wating for an upgrade)...they could have come up with something. I just think they could have done better that's all...hopefully ME3 will be. Don't mind me...I'm just rambling again.

In their defence if they put something that contrived into the plot we'd be kicking off and saying, why couldn't we take Kaidan on the final mission with us?  I'd have left ...... with Joker.

I don't mind what they've done providing he is a big part of ME3 and it wasn't all BS but I don't know why they'd say that if it wasn't true, easier to include past squadmates than start a fresh, I genuinely believe they have something planned out for Ash/Kai.

[MICHELLE7]

BECC4 wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...
Yeah, I think that Tali and Garrus are proof that they are not that bound by making a stand alone game as some people believe. They found a way to work Chakwas and Joker in as well. And if Joker couldn't die why couldn't Kaidan have been on the ship too...and not died(they could have made it work somehow. I think Horizon may have just been a cop-out because they didn't want to put to much effort into it...like I said before...an afterthought.

He could have actually went with Shep and the squad members on the shuttle as the shuttle pilot and been spared being taken or killed by the collectors. Comes back with Shep and remains with Joker as Shep and the squaddies take on the collectors. And they could have come up with some reason for him to stay behind...maybe he was needed on the ship or maybe his L2 implant was removed(wating for an upgrade)...they could have come up with something. I just think they could have done better that's all...hopefully ME3 will be. Don't mind me...I'm just rambling again.

In their defence if they put something that contrived into the plot we'd be kicking off and saying, why couldn't we take Kaidan on the final mission with us?  I'd have left ...... with Joker.

I don't mind what they've done providing he is a big part of ME3 and it wasn't all BS but I don't know why they'd say that if it wasn't true, easier to include past squadmates than start a fresh, I genuinely believe they have something planned out for Ash/Kai.

Like I said...I was just rambling...I think they have something planned too...I just don't want something between now and then to change that because they say we've got to do a stand alone game for all the new ME3 players.

[Sialater]

BECC4 wrote...

Sialater wrote...
None of them should fade into the background, I don't think.   They should ALL be further developed. Though if you get Liara back, I doubt you have need of Samara, but then she says she's leaving anyway.  But a the very least, none of the romancables in ME1 or ME2, no matter what you did with them, should be gotten rid of.  Yes, even Jacob should stay.   You can't get Wrex back, he's busy being King of Tutchanka, so Grunt can stay and Mordin and Legion are unique.  (And between the two of them, I'm pretty sure Mordin and Chakwas can cure Thane, you just have to go get some bizarre exotic and rare ingredient from a far off planet in the backside of nowhere.)  I think there's room on Normandy II for two spare squadmates, however they get there.

I have nothing against Thane per say but if they're prepared to 'cure' Thane then why not have Ash make a miracle survival and return too?  It's silly, just like curing Joker, Cerb may have improved him with implants etc but they can't cure him because it would require rebuilding his bones.  Thane's disease has essentially destroyed his lungs, they would have to rebuild his lungs.  Now there won't be a project Lazarus for them, so I think he was always intended to die.  Mordin is older than the average Salarian, as much as I like him it would be easy to get rid of him as you said Samara is unlikely to stick around, Zaeed sucks so I couldn't care less what happens to him.

Dunno I just get the feeling it doesn't bode well for the ME2 folks.

Well, Ash was vaporized.  You can't reconstitute atoms.  Shep was frozen in space, the Lazarus Project makes a bit more sense when you consider it closer to reviving a cryo sleep (though not quite, since cryo doesn't kill you).  I don't remember anyone saying she fell into the planet's atmosphere  So yeah, curing Thane makes a great deal more sense, especially since what he described was like Cystic Fibrosis. 

They didn't cure Joker.  They gave him metal legs and a metal pelvis.  The disease is still there, he just no longer has the defective parts.

Mordin may be older, but I doubt he's gonna kick the bucket in the next few years.  As long as they don't have a 10 year timeline between ME2 and ME3, he could still be around.  I never downloaded Zaeed.  And we agree on Samara.

Besides, if you can't cure Thane, that leaves those with the Thane romance in ME2 scott free when Kaiden returns.  Yeah, you weren't celibate, but how can he be mad at you when you gave a dying man one last fling?  Yuck.

[BECC4]

MICHELLE7 wrote...
Like I said...I was just rambling...I think they have something planned too...I just don't want something between now and then to change that because they say we've got to do a stand alone game for all the new ME3 players.

Then let us make noise!!!!!!!!  Make sure they know we're expecting them to pull through with something amazing and that the Kaidan fans are going nowhere!

[Jhourney]

BECC4 wrote...

Then let us make noise!!!!!!!!  Make sure they know we're expecting them to pull through with something amazing and that the Kaidan fans are going nowhere!

Aye Aye!

[BECC4]

Sialater wrote...
Well, Ash was vaporized.  You can't reconstitute atoms.  Shep was frozen in space, the Lazarus Project makes a bit more sense when you consider it closer to reviving a cryo sleep (though not quite, since cryo doesn't kill you).  I don't remember anyone saying she fell into the planet's atmosphere  So yeah, curing Thane makes a great deal more sense, especially since what he described was like Cystic Fibrosis. 

They didn't cure Joker.  They gave him metal legs and a metal pelvis.  The disease is still there, he just no longer has the defective parts.

Mordin may be older, but I doubt he's gonna kick the bucket in the next few years.  As long as they don't have a 10 year timeline between ME2 and ME3, he could still be around.  I never downloaded Zaeed.  And we agree on Samara.

Besides, if you can't cure Thane, that leaves those with the Thane romance in ME2 scott free when Kaiden returns.  Yeah, you weren't celibate, but how can he be mad at you when you gave a dying man one last fling?  Yuck.

Well Jacob describes you as meat and tubes, I take that to mean pretty messed up and they said they rebuilt you so I imagine a lot of work.

That's what I meant the difference between Joker and Thane, Joker was improved not cured, the way Thane described his disease was more like what smoking does to your lungs ie destroying them rather than CF, build up of mucus, dunno to me it just seems easier to add a few metal splints to Jokers bones, hell we can do stuff like that now, than replacing both lungs, but I guess it's in the interpretation.

I wasn't suggesting Ash be reassembled, more that she got away from the blast/somehow survived like the Asari, Saren's assistant makes it into ME2.

Whether Thane is there or not I doubt Kaidan would see it being ok to screw the dead man, remember your argument was I was dead for two years, oh but in the 2wks from waking up I got over you enough to sleep with someone else, nah it won't wash.  If the dude is there or not, the act still took place.

[MICHELLE7]

Jhosephine wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...
Yeah, I think that Tali and Garrus are proof that they are not that bound by making a stand alone game as some people believe. They found a way to work Chakwas and Joker in as well. And if Joker couldn't die why couldn't Kaidan have been on the ship too...and not died(they could have made it work somehow. I think Horizon may have just been a cop-out because they didn't want to put to much effort into it...like I said before...an afterthought.

He could have actually went with Shep and the squad members on the shuttle as the shuttle pilot and been spared being taken or killed by the collectors. Comes back with Shep and remains with Joker as Shep and the squaddies take on the collectors. And they could have come up with some reason for him to stay behind...maybe he was needed on the ship or maybe his L2 implant was removed(wating for an upgrade)...they could have come up with something. I just think they could have done better that's all...hopefully ME3 will be. Don't mind me...I'm just rambling again.

I hope it will all make sense in ME3. That they did what they did because there's more to Kaidan than just being Shepard's love interest in the trilogy. That Bioware gave him a purpose besides serving at her side, a strong purpose that will compliment Shepards when the time comes. That everything happened because, like Shepard, he had little choice in the matter. That he too is tied down by a mission or assignment on a universal scale.
That once the trilogy is over we'll sit here in awe because it was so beautifully done in the end, as a whole, as a story. The growing love of ME1, the heartbreak and emptiness of ME2 and then the conclusion of love, the peace and finally the future they both deserve of ME3.

Yes, I can live with that.

A happy conclusion will make up for a lot.

Personally, I believe that the reason that Kaidan/Ash were kept for ME3 was because they were the Virmire survivor not because they were the LI. The Virmire survivor may play a bigger role in the overall story...I just hope that it isn't some sacrificial role (like Shep let someone die in their place and now they die for Shep) that will conflict with the happy ending for the LI if we've made Kaidan/Ash our LI. I don't think Liara will have the same role as Kaidan/Ash will in that respect(non-LI).

You'll just have to overlook me today...I'm going through the negative phase...one day it's they're going to give us a happy ending...the next it's "what if they don't?" Anyone know when we'll get some news? some spoilers? anything?

[BECC4]

MICHELLE7 wrote...
You'll just have to overlook me today...I'm going through the negative phase...one day it's they're going to give us a happy ending...the next it's "what if they don't?" Anyone know when we'll get some news? some spoilers? anything?

Not for a while unfortunately, they haven't even announced DLC yet, I think we won't hear for months, unless of course the romance is the DLC, it would be a sure-fire way to make a looooooooot of money, look at how many romance threads there are, don't be decieved by the lure of the cash cow.

[MICHELLE7]

BECC4 wrote...

Whether Thane is there or not I doubt Kaidan would see it being ok to screw the dead man, remember your argument was I was dead for two years, oh but in the 2wks from waking up I got over you enough to sleep with someone else, nah it won't wash.  If the dude is there or not, the act still took place.

Yeah...I seriously doubt Kaidan will take you back if you sleep with one of the other LI's(no matter what the case).

[MICHELLE7]

BECC4 wrote...

MICHELLE7 wrote...
You'll just have to overlook me today...I'm going through the negative phase...one day it's they're going to give us a happy ending...the next it's "what if they don't?" Anyone know when we'll get some news? some spoilers? anything?

Not for a while unfortunately, they haven't even announced DLC yet, I think we won't hear for months, unless of course the romance is the DLC, it would be a sure-fire way to make a looooooooot of money, look at how many romance threads there are, don't be decieved by the lure of the cash cow.

Mooooooo!

[BECC4]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

BECC4 wrote...
Not for a while unfortunately, they haven't even announced DLC yet, I think we won't hear for months, unless of course the romance is the DLC, it would be a sure-fire way to make a looooooooot of money, look at how many romance threads there are, don't be decieved by the lure of the cash cow.

Mooooooo!

*face palm* should have seen that one coming

[Jhourney]

BECC4 wrote...
Then let us make noise!!!!!!!!  Make sure they know we're expecting them to pull through with something amazing and that the Kaidan fans are going nowhere!

Had to come up with a better aye aye, Scenic View kaidan didn't work for me. Here's to all of us being here for the years to come!!!! <3

[Sialater]

BECC4 wrote...

Well Jacob describes you as meat and tubes, I take that to mean pretty messed up and they said they rebuilt you so I imagine a lot of work.

True, but meat and tubes is entirely different from atomic ash. (Sorry, no pun intended.  *cringe*)

That's what I meant the difference between Joker and Thane, Joker was improved not cured, the way Thane described his disease was more like what smoking does to your lungs ie destroying them rather than CF, build up of mucus, dunno to me it just seems easier to add a few metal splints to Jokers bones, hell we can do stuff like that now, than replacing both lungs, but I guess it's in the interpretation.

Shouldn't called it CF, chronic, deadly asthma or pneumonia is more accurate. 

I wasn't suggesting Ash be reassembled, more that she got away from the blast/somehow survived like the Asari, Saren's assistant makes it into ME2.

The Asari researcher had a head start and wasn't at Ground Zero.  IF Ashley made it, she's dead of radiation poisoning at the very least.  BUT, I leave her with the Salarians every single time, so it wasn't the nuke that killed her in my game.  Otherwise, why would I have gotten the Salarians out, but not my gunnery sergeant?

Whether Thane is there or not I doubt Kaidan would see it being ok to screw the dead man, remember your argument was I was dead for two years, oh but in the 2wks from waking up I got over you enough to sleep with someone else, nah it won't wash.  If the dude is there or not, the act still took place.

It's still a cop out.

[BECC4]

Sialater wrote...

Shouldn't called it CF, chronic, deadly asthma or pneumonia is more accurate. 

Sorry didn't mean to offend, it's just the abbreviation used when teaching it.

Modifié par BECC4, 18 février 2010 - 07:17 .

[SweetiePea]

Okay, the Joey Horizon thing is hi-larious! It had me giggling madly for several minutes.



I'm too lazy to read that whole article. lol I don't think ME2 is anywhere near as plothole-a-rific as DA:A promises to be. "I'm not dead yet! I can still come back and slay archdemons!" Or maybe they're planning on bringing Shepard back in ME3, even if you killed him/her. I digress...



As for the thing with Kaidan not getting mad at you for having a fling with Thane, I don't think that really works. Kaidan isn't the kind of guy that just sleeps with anyone, so I don't think he'd buy an argument like that--and I wouldn't blame him. I think it would be pretty hard to make the argument that your Shep really loves Kaidan but just wanted to do Thane a favor. If you love someone and they sleep with someone else, it's quite, quite painful and not really something that is easily forgiven--if it's ever forgiven at all. It would make sense to me if your Shep having a relationship with someone else in ME2 totally kills any possible relationship in ME3.

[BECC4]

Jhosephine wrote...

BECC4 wrote...
Then let us make noise!!!!!!!!  Make sure they know we're expecting them to pull through with something amazing and that the Kaidan fans are going nowhere!

Had to come up with a better aye aye, Scenic View kaidan didn't work for me. Here's to all of us being here for the years to come!!!! <3

Hehe! Awesome, now I expect a full salute Lieutenant *wiggles eyebrows*

[Jhourney]

BECC4 wrote...

Hehe! Awesome, now I expect a full salute Lieutenant *wiggles eyebrows*

Oh you're bad........love it hahaha

[BECC4]

SweetiePea wrote...
As for the thing with Kaidan not getting mad at you for having a fling with Thane, I don't think that really works. Kaidan isn't the kind of guy that just sleeps with anyone, so I don't think he'd buy an argument like that--and I wouldn't blame him. I think it would be pretty hard to make the argument that your Shep really loves Kaidan but just wanted to do Thane a favor. If you love someone and they sleep with someone else, it's quite, quite painful and not really something that is easily forgiven--if it's ever forgiven at all. It would make sense to me if your Shep having a relationship with someone else in ME2 totally kills any possible relationship in ME3.

Exactly, which was why DA:O was sooooo upsetting, I was mortified when I got to that bit

[RyrineaNara]

To me, it is still a cop out, if they put those love intreats in their for a reason. If they can't relive their love for each other in the next game that would suck. . I still am faithful thought, and I delated my other game, and I am going to run thru it aging still being faithful to him.

[BECC4]

RyrineaNara wrote...

To me, it is still a cop out, if they put those love intreats in their for a reason. If they can't relive their love for each other in the next game that would suck. . I still am faithful thought, and I delated my other game, and I am going to run thru it aging still being faithful to him.

I'm in two minds about it honestly, I can see why if people found their special someone in ME2 they'd want to keep them, just like we do, but I really think Bioware always intended Ash/Kai/Liara to be the 'proper' fleshed out LI, I mean look at the way they imply it's just a roll in the hay, I dunno, it's just a feeling, I still think Miranda and Jacob are gonna run of with each other, I can't get over Jacob saying she deserves a better man than I, yet Shep's fine, what does that say about who he cares for?  Thane is dying and Garrus wants to blow off steam, none of it implies long-term, Kaidan however tells you it meant everything to him, he isn't the kind of person who takes his clothes off unless it's serious, just has a different feel is all.

[yoshibb]

For awhile I thought maybe I'd create a new game and just try the new LIs out, but I don't even want to do that anymore. So I won't be getting the Paramour achievement. So there, you can't add me to your cheetrz list, ha!



I really hope they do this right in ME3, I would just hate if this whole consequence thing was a lie