339 réponses à ce sujet

[It IS Lupus]

KalosCast wrote...

Chimpeau wrote...

And it really isn't a break in the lore, hence "HEAT-sinks" and not "bullets".

Except that they don't work like heatsinks at all. They work like bullets.
Hence why ejecting your "heatsink" halfway through a clip doesn't make
you use your whole clip... as well as waiting three hours doesn't give
you even one more shot.

Also: If these heat-sinks are universal, why is my heavy pistol empty and my SMG still has 500 rounds?

They may be universal but that doesnt mean heat builds up at the same rate. Would a Heavy pistol deal as much damage or build up as much heat as a Sniper Rifle? No they wouldnt. I'm thinking what they did was take x% of max ammo = 1 Heat sink which is why a sniper gives you like 5 rounds per pick up and an SMG gives you like 150 per heatsink

[DirewolfX]

I think the more ammo-heavy classes have issues with this... especially if you use Sniper Rifles (haven't tried Shotguns yet). I rarely ran out of ammo on my Adept with any weapons, but my Infiltrator is scavenging for clips for his Sniper Rifle (10 shots, each pickup restores 1... or the 60 shot version where each pickup restores 6, but the damage is like 1/6 per shot). Difficulty level might have something to do with it (being a soldier on insane must suck if you run out of ammo).

[It IS Lupus]

DirewolfX wrote...

I think the more ammo-heavy classes have issues with this... especially if you use Sniper Rifles (haven't tried Shotguns yet). I rarely ran out of ammo on my Adept with any weapons, but my Infiltrator is scavenging for clips for his Sniper Rifle (10 shots, each pickup restores 1... or the 60 shot version where each pickup restores 6, but the damage is like 1/6 per shot). Difficulty level might have something to do with it (being a soldier on insane must suck if you run out of ammo).

I agree that the ammo cap for each weapon needs to be re-balanced, But other than my sniper rifle(infiltrator) at the VERY End of the suicide mission i didnt have a problem with ammo. What i did have a problem with is the fact my team was still retarded and kept getting killed by popping up when they were near dead.

[Kurupt87]

a possible fix could be that you have a set number of heat sinks, say whatever the amount is you have now when at full capacity, and whenever you "reload" you switch it out with one of your others and it goes into a cooldown, maybe a minute long cd? (i dno that would have to worked out to see that its not too long/too short) keeps it more consistent with lore and still makes you more careful with ammo as if you're silly you could still end up with all clips on cd.

[LostHH]

I like the new heatsink. Feels natural after so many other action/war games.

Hate the ammo capacity on the hand cannon though.

[Gravity Bun]

I'm not bothered either way but during larger battles it was a bit hectic darting all over the place looking for thermal clips, I preferred hiding behind crates until my weapon cooled down.

[BattleVisor]

ReubenLiew wrote...

I just wished it was a mix of the old and the new, you can pop the heatsink to instantly cool down an overheated gun but lose a heatsink which is limited, and still retain the unlimited ammo if you don't spam your shots.

this

[RiouHotaru]

Cajeb wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Why is that everytime we (those of us on the pro-heatsink corner) point out how the lore obviously fits with the system the anti-ammo crowd immediately ignores us or says our evidence is flawed? There. Isn't. Any. Inconsistency. The use of universal thermal clips and heat sinks was a move taken by the Alliance military as a means of giving their soldiers the ability to sustain fire for longer periods of time than was before possible under the old system. The fact that thermal clips were universal makes them profitable because they work in ANY small arm.

Also, people who argue for "Why can't I share clips with my SMG and with my other guns?" I'll spell this out to you, as plainly as possible. The ammo counter? Has NOTHING to do with physical ammo. The gun still uses the block/chunk/etc of metal and shakes off enough for a single slug. The counter? Tells you how many shots you can fire before the heatsink has to be replaced, and how many total shots before the entire thermal clip must be changed out.

The manual specifically states each thermal clip contains a number of heatsinks which are fedinto the gun.

How can you sustain fire for longer periods of time with finite ammo? Does not compute. Yeah offer me a sniper with unlimited ammo I can fire every 4 seconds or one I can fire 13 times every 2 seconds. Who can sustain fire for a longer period of time? Obviously the thermal clip crowd! Oh wait...

So you close your first paragraph talking about universal thermal clips then start the second trying to explain why they aren't unvirsal...good luck. The rest of the post had nothing to do with them being universal. You just explained how the counter works.

You know, since you already stated before that you play FPSes like COD or MW, so attempting to compare those franchises to ME2 is like comparing apples and oranges.  Two completely different genres with two completely different systems of play.  A sniper rifle with unlimited ammo would break the game.  Notice that NO FPS gives you weapons with unlimited ammo for the exact same reason.

Also, you just answered your own question.  Take Sniper Rifle A, the "unlimited" one.  After 2 shots, it overheats and takes 5 seconds to cool down.  Sniper Rifle B, which uses thermal clips, has to reload after each shot, but never overheats.  Basic math tells you that in the time it takes you to wait for SR-A to cool down, you've fired roughly 4-5 shots on SR-B.  So yeah, your ROF and damage/shot output is MUCH higher on SR-B.

Universality is ALSO explained in the manual, but I'll try again.  Each "Thermal Clip" goes into a gun.  This "Clip" contains a number of heatsinks, which cool the gun down instantly, rather than waiting for it to overheat.  After so many shots, the heat-sink is popped out and replaced with a new one from the original "clip".  Once the entire Thermal Clip is empty, you cannot shoot any more, as the mechanisms of the gun prevent you from doing so.  The clips that enemies drop can be used to put more heatsinks into your thermal clip.  The "universal" nature of the Thermal clip system, is that any thermal clip can be used to refil the heatsinks on any gun.  You're not putting in a new clip when you find them on the battlefield, you're just refilling your original clip's store of heatsinks.  Only if you let your gun totally run out, are you likely replacing the entire thermal clip.

Except that they don't work like heatsinks at all. They work like bullets.
Hence why ejecting your "heatsink" halfway through a clip doesn't make
you use your whole clip... as well as waiting three hours doesn't give
you even one more shot.

My explanation covers this "issue".  The clip works exactly like it's supposed to, if you guys bothered to read any of the info.

In this manner, the same sinks you put into your shotgun, can also go into your AR, your pistol, your SMG, or your SR.  Does this make more sense??

Modifié par RiouHotaru, 09 février 2010 - 05:38 .

[RiouHotaru]

Cajeb wrote...

I will admit running out of ammo on my sniper and pistol is rare, this is more because I played extremely conservatively with my ammo. I tried to rarely use the SMG...but when you have 5 shots left in your sniper and in your pistol you are scared to waste shots.

And this, my friend, is the entire point the developers were going for.  They don't want you to snipe and pistol your way through an entire level.  Because that's the same kind of shenanigans people did in ME1, and the developers didn't like that.  It was also incredibly boring for the majority of us.  The devs want you to be conservative, and make each shot count.  The SR is powerful, so you have to make each shot count, and use it only when necessary, NOT make it your primary weapon.

[Big Yam]

I prefer the idea of limited ammo and 'clips'.   It seems to promote skill, teamwork, and aggression when my ammo is almost out.

/never played ME1

[nilssen255]

I love it, makes me have to plan ahead, lol. Though a low/med/high amount of ammo dropped option wouldn't be too bad. Would stop all this whining atleast

[DarthCaine]

People hate change

Back when they announced in ME1 that there will be unlimited ammo people complained why it's unlimited

[Kabraxal]

They need to mesh the overheat system and the ammo system. Really, the heat sink is ammo... if you don't have a clip you cannot fire. That is inexcusable considering heat sinks are supposed to be "superior" technology.



Gameplay wise, with certain guns it works fine and doesn't negatively impact the game, but for the sniper rifles, shotguns, and pistols this new ammo system is simply horrible. The option to let the gun overheat and cool down should still be available and heat sinks only operate as short cuts. But instead, Bioware tried to hard to be a typical shooter in the respect to gunplay and it was a mixed bag at best.

[Space Shot]

Kabraxal wrote...
 But instead, Bioware tried to hard to be a typical shooter in the respect to gunplay and it was a mixed bag at best.

Well considering the overwhelmingly positive reaction to the game and it's gameplay you can hardly say that ammo was a "mixed bag at best."  You may personally have a different opinion (which you are certainly entitled to as backwards as it may be) but that hardly counts towards any objective determination of quality or functionality.

Modifié par Space Shot, 09 février 2010 - 07:40 .

[Valmy]

The main problem with the heat sink system is I now have so few shots with my sniper rifle. I have to come down from my perch to collect clips all the freaking time under fire.

[Schurge]

People don't like limitations on their powerful weapons, and they don't like that they can't fire and forget, and they don't like that they have to conserve ammo, and they don't like that they have to run around and find ammo....

I like the new system and I am a squishy Sniper whose shields are downed in one hit at the difficulty level I play.

Modifié par Schurge, 09 février 2010 - 07:45 .

[Glyini]

The SMG seems to ruin the part about switching weapons for the job. 50 rounds per clip and the ability to carry 14 extra clips of ammo make it better than the heavy pistol for removing armor.



I can understand differing amouts of heat makes the heavy pistol only cary 6 rounds per thermal clip but it does not explain why I only carry 3 extra clips for the heavy pistol and 14 for the tempest.

Shouldn't I have 82 rounds in reserve for my heavy pistol instead of 19.



I love the heavy pistol it just makes me sad its not worth using due to ammo capacity.



A hybrid system is what I was hoping for, something like SWAT 4 where when you unloaded a clip it just kept the partial clip. Add a slow cooldown like a 1 min cooling time so you could have like 4 clip icons on your screen with the heat slowly ticking down on all of them. Add the ability to replace hot clips with fresh ones you pick up and explain the limit on carried with a cooling rack or something. Bam ammo system that fits with ME backstory.

I woud even be happy if they added ammo by saying its a new design that is much more efficent at dealing damage than the old shaving system and the thermal clips encase the ammo to prevent overheat.

[Talogrungi]

People don't like the new system because it adds an element of difficulty/strategy.

You have to actually be a half-decent FPS player.

[Aynslie]

I like it better than my weapon heating up. But I didn't have trouble with finding ammo I guess. I would leave clips behind because I was full. I actually started thinking that there was too many ammo drops to make this feature add to the difficulty of the game. I thought at the beginning of my first play through "oooo ammo interesting! what will I do when I run out...." But never had the problem.

[Cajeb]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Cajeb wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

Why is that everytime we (those of us on the pro-heatsink corner) point out how the lore obviously fits with the system the anti-ammo crowd immediately ignores us or says our evidence is flawed? There. Isn't. Any. Inconsistency. The use of universal thermal clips and heat sinks was a move taken by the Alliance military as a means of giving their soldiers the ability to sustain fire for longer periods of time than was before possible under the old system. The fact that thermal clips were universal makes them profitable because they work in ANY small arm.

Also, people who argue for "Why can't I share clips with my SMG and with my other guns?" I'll spell this out to you, as plainly as possible. The ammo counter? Has NOTHING to do with physical ammo. The gun still uses the block/chunk/etc of metal and shakes off enough for a single slug. The counter? Tells you how many shots you can fire before the heatsink has to be replaced, and how many total shots before the entire thermal clip must be changed out.

The manual specifically states each thermal clip contains a number of heatsinks which are fedinto the gun.

How can you sustain fire for longer periods of time with finite ammo? Does not compute. Yeah offer me a sniper with unlimited ammo I can fire every 4 seconds or one I can fire 13 times every 2 seconds. Who can sustain fire for a longer period of time? Obviously the thermal clip crowd! Oh wait...

So you close your first paragraph talking about universal thermal clips then start the second trying to explain why they aren't unvirsal...good luck. The rest of the post had nothing to do with them being universal. You just explained how the counter works.

You know, since you already stated before that you play FPSes like COD or MW, so attempting to compare those franchises to ME2 is like comparing apples and oranges.  Two completely different genres with two completely different systems of play.  A sniper rifle with unlimited ammo would break the game.  Notice that NO FPS gives you weapons with unlimited ammo for the exact same reason.

Also, you just answered your own question.  Take Sniper Rifle A, the "unlimited" one.  After 2 shots, it overheats and takes 5 seconds to cool down.  Sniper Rifle B, which uses thermal clips, has to reload after each shot, but never overheats.  Basic math tells you that in the time it takes you to wait for SR-A to cool down, you've fired roughly 4-5 shots on SR-B.  So yeah, your ROF and damage/shot output is MUCH higher on SR-B.

Universality is ALSO explained in the manual, but I'll try again.  Each "Thermal Clip" goes into a gun.  This "Clip" contains a number of heatsinks, which cool the gun down instantly, rather than waiting for it to overheat.  After so many shots, the heat-sink is popped out and replaced with a new one from the original "clip".  Once the entire Thermal Clip is empty, you cannot shoot any more, as the mechanisms of the gun prevent you from doing so.  The clips that enemies drop can be used to put more heatsinks into your thermal clip.  The "universal" nature of the Thermal clip system, is that any thermal clip can be used to refil the heatsinks on any gun.  You're not putting in a new clip when you find them on the battlefield, you're just refilling your original clip's store of heatsinks.  Only if you let your gun totally run out, are you likely replacing the entire thermal clip.

Except that they don't work like heatsinks at all. They work like bullets.
Hence why ejecting your "heatsink" halfway through a clip doesn't make
you use your whole clip... as well as waiting three hours doesn't give
you even one more shot.

My explanation covers this "issue".  The clip works exactly like it's supposed to, if you guys bothered to read any of the info.

In this manner, the same sinks you put into your shotgun, can also go into your AR, your pistol, your SMG, or your SR.  Does this make more sense??

Your clip thing makes more sense.

As for your other points, other FPS's give you way more ammo for snipers. They are also balanced around multiplayer and not single player. As for your ROF point, you were talking about a sustained ROF and not a higher one. Unlimited ammo allows you to sustain a slow ROF forever. This means in a sustained firefight with ample cover you will have a humongous advantage if you bide your time.

[Cajeb]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Cajeb wrote...

I will admit running out of ammo on my sniper and pistol is rare, this is more because I played extremely conservatively with my ammo. I tried to rarely use the SMG...but when you have 5 shots left in your sniper and in your pistol you are scared to waste shots.

And this, my friend, is the entire point the developers were going for.  They don't want you to snipe and pistol your way through an entire level.  Because that's the same kind of shenanigans people did in ME1, and the developers didn't like that.  It was also incredibly boring for the majority of us.  The devs want you to be conservative, and make each shot count.  The SR is powerful, so you have to make each shot count, and use it only when necessary, NOT make it your primary weapon.

Which is exactly my point. I am encouraged to SMG my way through the entire level. The SMG is hella powerful as well and has huge amounts of ammo. They are limiting play styles. There is never a time when I NEED to use one gun over the other. I am just forced to limit myself primarily to SMG because of ammo. Why is it better to Cloak and SMG my way through a whole level? Hmm? Or Tech Armor and do it? Hell with tech armor and an SMG you are pretty much invincible. How boring....I don't have to be conservative with my 700 SMG bullets now do I? Inconsistency

[Cajeb]

Talogrungi wrote...

People don't like the new system because it adds an element of difficulty/strategy.
You have to actually be a half-decent FPS player.

ME isn't an FPS. You don't need to be half-decent. I am way beyond decent at shooters and even my little sister can play ME easily. She pauses and aims. OMG PPL WHO DONT LIKE AMMO HAVE NO TWITCH REFLEXES!!1111

Irrelevant. It doesn't add difficulty, it limits playstyles.

[fchopin]

Talogrungi wrote...

People don't like the new system because it adds an element of difficulty/strategy.
You have to actually be a half-decent FPS player.

Nothing to do with difficulty, a 2 year old can point and fire, the game is very easy and has nothing to do with reloading it is to do with running around looking for silly clips and pretend that you found a heat sink.
 
A soldier who is not prepared and carry everything needed on his or her person is a dead soldier.In other words boring.

[Tooneyman]

To replace the lore. Your not replacing ammo, you are replacing heat sinkers. I think this would solve everyones problems. Does this help with the explanation bioware, but each heat klip would would be individualized for each weapon. Ok, are things starting to make sense now.

[Looy]

cashogy wrote...

I cant understand the dislike for this new feature.

Some people hate on anything main stream becausce they have no personality and need to deliberatly distance themselves from the majority to seem cool.