339 réponses à ce sujet

[nteger]

I say as long as the lore behind heat sinks are going to remain completely inconsistent they might as well be unlimited.

[Direwolf0294]

Why are people saying it breaks lore? It is explained that they made thermal clips after studying Geth technology. We all no Geth are extremly technologicaly advanced so it would make sence that thermal clips could be made from there technology. Maybe it was Reaper technology and they just say its Geth technology because they don't want to admit that theres Reapers.

What I don't like though is it is implied they got this Technology almost straight away. Shepard says that there is no thermal clip for the pistol he picks up when he wakes up. This means he knows what they are and that means that Thermal clips came around somtime in the month after Sovereign was defeted and the Normandy was destroyed. It would of been cool if Shepard hadn't of know about thermal clips and started asking why the hell the gun wasn't working and Miranda explained it to them.

[Basher of Glory]

Same right for everyone:

Enemy runs out of heatsinks ==> acceptable

Enemy has unlimited heatsinks ==> crap.

Period.

[WrexShepard]

It would be better if they hybridized it, like you have a passive heatsink that acts like the Me1 guns but with much less heat sink capacity and longer cool down, and of course the ejectable heatsinks.



But heatsinks are cool. The animation is cool, Zaeed burning that dude with the ignited fuel from dropping a heatsink on it is cool. I like them.

[ReubenLiew]

I just wished it was a mix of the old and the new, you can pop the heatsink to instantly cool down an overheated gun but lose a heatsink which is limited, and still retain the unlimited ammo if you don't spam your shots.

[RyuAzai]

More, it was the break from lore that just wasn't games. Like the games, is what I feel got many people uspet. Even myself.



But to be completely honest?



I love the ammo features, it does make the game feel more intense and actually more fun in shootouts. It is great

[Daeion]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Why are people saying it breaks lore? It is explained that they made thermal clips after studying Geth technology. We all no Geth are extremly technologicaly advanced so it would make sence that thermal clips could be made from there technology. Maybe it was Reaper technology and they just say its Geth technology because they don't want to admit that theres Reapers.

What I don't like though is it is implied they got this Technology almost straight away. Shepard says that there is no thermal clip for the pistol he picks up when he wakes up. This means he knows what they are and that means that Thermal clips came around somtime in the month after Sovereign was defeted and the Normandy was destroyed. It would of been cool if Shepard hadn't of know about thermal clips and started asking why the hell the gun wasn't working and Miranda explained it to them.

You're right, they do explain it in the codex, but it's a lame explination considering I put more rounds down field in ME1 then I can in ME2 before worrying about heat.  I still think it was poorly implimented, my gun should cool down after a period of time no matter what.

Modifié par Daeion, 04 février 2010 - 05:47 .

[guru7892]

Direwolf0294 wrote...
What I don't like though is it is implied they got this Technology almost straight away. Shepard says that there is no thermal clip for the pistol he picks up when he wakes up. This means he knows what they are and that means that Thermal clips came around somtime in the month after Sovereign was defeted and the Normandy was destroyed. It would of been cool if Shepard hadn't of know about thermal clips and started asking why the hell the gun wasn't working and Miranda explained it to them.

the technology might have been adapted after the citadel attack but before Shepard was shot down. remember he spent some time hunting geth outposts, before his post-humorous save the galaxy thing. (as opposed to his pre-humorous save the galaxy thing).

[NoUserNameHere]

I thought that it was a fair enough retcon under difficult circumstances.

Unlimited ammo would probably be overpowered with the revamped cover system and all.

[Daeion]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

I thought that it was a fair enough retcon under difficult circumstances.
Unlimited ammo would probably be overpowered with the revamped cover system and all.

Should have just kept the ME1 system but allow you to carry 2 thermal clips so that you can immeadiately cool down a weapon in a heavy fire fight.

[IndomitusRex]

I like the idea of heat-sinks, as it's a clever means of bringing Mass Effect combat more in line with traditional shooters. Reloading is something we're familiar with, and personally I like how it lets you modulate the pace of your shooting more than in ME1, where you basically went at a medium pace all the time.

Not having one big pool of heat-sinks for all of your weapons, while I agree it's a little out of synch with their supposed universality, was probably done both to ensure that you switch weapons more frequently, and that when you run out of ammo you can usually switch to another weapon, rather than just spam powers / bide your time (unless you managed to exhaust all of your weapons of course).

And really, how many shooters have you played where the computer-controlled enemies ran out of ammo?  Why are people even mentioning that?

Modifié par IndomitusRex, 04 février 2010 - 05:53 .

[Railstay]

cashogy wrote...

I cant understand the dislike for this new feature. In ME1, if youre rifle overheated it was about a 5 second wait until it could fire again. Now, it takes less than a second to slap in a new heat sink and your back firing at the enemy. And to those that say they run out, youre not paying attention to where they drop. Nearly every enemy drops one when they die, so it is really hard to run out of ammo. I actually find that this feature makes combat flow a lot better, but that might be just me

There isn't that much dislike for it.  It's a very vocal minority.  Nearly every opinion you encounter on an Internet forum is going to be extremist by nature for a couple reasons, and this is Sociology 101:


1.  People who post on any given forum are going to be very passionate about the subject of the forum.  Otherwise, they would never seek the forum out, or post in it at all.

2.  The majority of any forum is made up of lurkers, who don't post anything at all.  They simply browse and read.

3.  Anyone compelled to post on a forum is going to have a firm stance on an issue within the subject, in this case heatsinks.  Very few people posting will be ambivalent about it.  The majority of people discussing it will either hate it or love it, because they wouldn't speak out about it in the first place if they didn't have strong feelings about it.

It's just how the Internet works.  You can't believe that this forum represents the majority of consumers.  How many copies has Mass Effect 2 sold so far?  Last I read it sold 2 million copies on the first week -- pretty solid numbers.  But do you really think all 2 million of those people are registering and talking on this forum?  This place would crash in 5 minutes if that were the case, and a thread would get nuked to the 20th page as soon as you hit post because of all the new content being generated.  This entire forum is probably about 1% of everyone who's bought the game.

Some people are angry about it cause of the lore break.  I do agree that a retcon would be cleaner.

Others for gameplay reasons, which I can't understand at all.  The ability to modify guns so they can fire infinitely without any risk of overheating made the first Mass Effect incredibly boring on higher difficulties.  To compensate you'd have to make enemies that take forever to kill, alternating between Shield Recover and Immunity.  The forced pausing that a clip system brings means the difficulty of killing an enemy lies on how much damage the enemy does and how aggressively it uses its powers, not how long it takes for you to hold LMB on it.

And if you can carry around a ton of heatsinks, it would mean you can beat the entire game spamming one gun.  If I could carry 50 shots of the Widow at a time, this game would become a total joke on any difficult.  Limited heatsinks for each gun exist so you have to switch your weapons to the appropriate situation.  Heavy Pistol for armor, SMG/AR for shield/biotics, Sniper Rifle for finishers/tough mobs, shotguns for close range, etc.  It also forces you to use your powers aggressively instead of just staying inert behind cover.

This is a game that encourages you to move, not just sit there and knock out enemies like a shooting gallery.

[Gilead26]

The idea of heat-sinks is a good one, I thought being able to fire non-stop for an entire fire-fight in ME 1 was really dumb.



The problem (as people have already said) is that they do not function like heat sinks. If you're going to have a system that functions like mags in all other shooters just say 'Retcon, guns have ammo now" and be done with it.



But if you're going to say " All guns use heat sinks and can fire X number of times before the sink needs to be changed" then have a universal pool and don't give players the shaft.

[EDarkness]

Ammo was/is the worst thing about this game. It's totally annoying and there really wasn't a reason for it. My main gun is the pistol and it's like I'm constantly running out of ammo and it's annoying. Why can't I get ammo from my machine gun that has plenty of rounds in it? If there's one thing they change in the next game, I hope it's this. Loose the ammo requirements, please.

[FredegarKadere]

I took satisfaction in ME1 gunning everything down from monkeys, to krogan, to colossus with a unmodified pistol. In ME2 I have to be methodical for any combat encounter, which is great but sometimes you just want to spray and pray Rambo style.

While the heat sink is nice to relieve on overheated weapon.. that doesn't really happen in the game.. It is ammo, not a heat sink. Some of your abilities will overheat the enemy weapons, and they with their unlimited ammo are unable to pop in a heat sink to reduce that.

ReubenLeiw's suggestion is what I was really hoping for after hearing about the original combat changes in Dev postings, but it did not turn out that way. I hope ME3 takes the middle ground approach.

[EDarkness]

IndomitusRex wrote...

And really, how many shooters have you played where the computer-controlled enemies ran out of ammo?  Why are people even mentioning that?

Because it doesn't make any sense.  We're limited by how much ammo we have, but the CPU isn't.  Which means the computer can stand there and shoot you indefinitely.  I never liked it in other games and I don't like it here either.  Everyone (CPU included) should have to play by the same rules.  This is just my opinion, though.  I really don't like the ammo system.  Changes this game to Gear of War RPG and I don't know if that's a good thing.

[manyfistss]

Gilead26 wrote...

The idea of heat-sinks is a good one, I thought being able to fire non-stop for an entire fire-fight in ME 1 was really dumb.

The problem (as people have already said) is that they do not function like heat sinks. If you're going to have a system that functions like mags in all other shooters just say 'Retcon, guns have ammo now" and be done with it.

But if you're going to say " All guns use heat sinks and can fire X number of times before the sink needs to be changed" then have a universal pool and don't give players the shaft.

People who cry about this and wanting universal pools don't get it. The system encourages to use different weapons of different situations and not spam with one weapon over and over. Bioware limited the numbers so you have to not waste your shots and if you do run out got to hunt for it aka keep moving around even in heat of battle. 

As for lore, it makes since that adding thermal clips would increase chance of victory, and the lore establishes the fact the Geth came up with the idea and everyone else adopted it very fast. It tells us why, as having thermal clips allows for faster "slugs" that produce more heat and would fry the original guns. 

[Daeion]

IndomitusRex wrote...

And really, how many shooters have you played where the computer-controlled enemies ran out of ammo?  Why are people even mentioning that?

because fair is fair?

[blank1]

IMO the style and feel of gameplay in ME2 was perfect, they should keep it -- thermal magazines and all. I think they ought to incorporate a ME1 style of skills, and un-gimp certain biotic abilities though. For example, Pull, Shockwave, and Throw are seriously useless against enemies with any sort of defense. I think Biotics shouldn't just outright be useless against enemies with a defense -- they should just be limited in effectiveness by say, 40% - 70%, until you get down those defenses. Also, I think they ought to keep how Shepard doesn't need to put points into weapons to shoot them straight. However, I'd love to have the ME1 style of skills. For example, you don't just put 10 points into AP ammo and evolve into Tungsten ammo. You have the option of maxing out AP ammo if you want, but at say, level 6, you unlock a different ammo -- let's say Incendiary Ammo just as an example.

Oh... and they should have the option for you to put points into a "Persuasion" skill on your actual character sheet. It's pretty lame having to go totally Paragon or totally Renegade to get access to certain charm/intimidate options. You should have to invest some skills into a Persuasion skill, and the effectiveness of Charm or Intimidate should rely upon that.

If ME3 is a combination of the best from both games, then it will be perhaps the best game *ever* made, and I'll send Bioware chocolates every day.

Modifié par blank1, 04 février 2010 - 06:17 .

[Frotality]

the fact that they even bothered to call it heatsinks show that they wanted to improve gameplay without breaking lore, bu that doesnt mean it was implemented well. auto weapons have vastly more ammo-duh- but the problem is they give way to little to sniper/shotgun/pistol users. whereas ARs and smgs are fine main weapons, pistols and snipers are only ever rare fallbacks simply because there is so little ammo for them. as an inflitrator, i am using that crappy little machine pistol more than anything alse becuase no other weapon is viable for more than 1 fight, if that.

ill keep saying it; i want a hybrid system. keep tension in combat, make wasting ammo bad, but dont make every bullet a freaking treasure, i can honestly use a missile launcher longer than my sniper, that is ridiculous.

[ReubenLiew]

Why would we want a system that encourages you to swap weapons all the time though? I hate swapping weapon animations, takes up more time than I'd care to have. More fun to keep the sniper up and blow heads up non-stop.

[Naltair]

It's a better game for the new combat system.

[Naltair]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Why would we want a system that encourages you to swap weapons all the time though? I hate swapping weapon animations, takes up more time than I'd care to have. More fun to keep the sniper up and blow heads up non-stop.

Because the game is about balancing risk and reward, and some weapons are better for some situations than others.

[Gilead26]

manyfistss wrote...

Gilead26 wrote...

The idea of heat-sinks is a good one, I thought being able to fire non-stop for an entire fire-fight in ME 1 was really dumb.

The problem (as people have already said) is that they do not function like heat sinks. If you're going to have a system that functions like mags in all other shooters just say 'Retcon, guns have ammo now" and be done with it.

But if you're going to say " All guns use heat sinks and can fire X number of times before the sink needs to be changed" then have a universal pool and don't give players the shaft.

People who cry about this and wanting universal pools don't get it. The system encourages to use different weapons of different situations and not spam with one weapon over and over. Bioware limited the numbers so you have to not waste your shots and if you do run out got to hunt for it aka keep moving around even in heat of battle. 

As for lore, it makes since that adding thermal clips would increase chance of victory, and the lore establishes the fact the Geth came up with the idea and everyone else adopted it very fast. It tells us why, as having thermal clips allows for faster "slugs" that produce more heat and would fry the original guns. 

I'm not saying that this mechanic has not improved the gameplay.  In ME1 I had an assault rifle that would never overheat and battles on Insanity were the most boring thing you can imagine.  But if the heatsinks function like ammo just call it ammo.  

[ReubenLiew]

Naltair wrote...

ReubenLiew wrote...

Why would we want a system that encourages you to swap weapons all the time though? I hate swapping weapon animations, takes up more time than I'd care to have. More fun to keep the sniper up and blow heads up non-stop.

Because the game is about balancing risk and reward, and some weapons are better for some situations than others.

Still though, it would be way more fun to keep at a single weapon than to constantly just swap weapons to suit the enemies.

I don't mind if they want to make it an ammo system or whatever, but don't make us pick up 10 heatsinks to keep up our expenditures for the sniper rifle when it only takes 4 for the other weapons ><