87 réponses à ce sujet

[uv23]

I finished my first playthrough a while ago as a renegade, but the loss of a few squad mates and all of the crew was too much to take. I know, just a game, but it made me sad enough that I couldn't continue that character anymore. So I decided to start my second playthrough with my neutral (paragon leaning) soldier. She's straight up military, but not completely heartless.

I was very careful in this second playthrough. I didnt' activate the EFF until all loyalty missions were complete, but them I got hit by the bombshell: Miranda and Jack's fight. My Paragon meter was about three quarters and renegade just under half, but neither was enough to negotiate the argument. Even after doing legion's quest as a full paragon (I'm not sure I'd have saved the geth, but that's debatable) its not enough to talk Jack down after the fact (the paragon/renegade options are there but greyed out).

I haven't complained much on these threads, but I find this extremely frustrating and not altogether fair. I do have a save from before doing Miranda and Jack's loyalty missions. My question is: if I do Jack's mission first and ****** off Miranda (back off, Miranda) can I then do Miranda's loyalty quest and bring her back into the fold. Backtracking kills immersion somewhat for me and I'm annoyed at how specific the process of keeping your team alive is, but I'll do it if its viable.

Thanks for listening.

Modifié par uv23, 04 février 2010 - 05:44 .

[NoUserNameHere]

That is what you get for being indecisive!



I eventually had to try NOT to top out the Paragon scale. Really, you a fair ammount of points just for talking in regular conversation.

[Spectre_Shepard]

the jack/miranda scene does not trigger until youve completed both of their loyalty quests. you have to choose unless you get paragon/renegade high enough. wasnt a problem for me...

[Jackal904]

I agree. You either have to be full blown renegade or full blown paragon inorder for things to work out for the best. I think they need to implement a new charm/intimidate system in ME3.

[uv23]

Agh that is annoying. So there's basically no way of keeping my entire crew alive unless I'm either a goody two shoes or a sociopath. Frustrated doesn't quite say it...

[Volion]

Agree, on second playthrough and ran into the same thing, no way to get all of the team loyal now as act 3 starts as soon as I want to land anywhere, very flustrating.. stupid in fact.

[FredegarKadere]

Have you trained your Operative/Agent (whatever) Skill to 4? It grants +75-100% to Paragon/Renegade. If not that may tip you to the point of convincing them both to back down. You can always respec afterwords if you didn't want the Skill to 4. You can also keep the disloyal one alive by having him/her escort the crew back to the Normandy during the finale. Won't help you with the Legion/Tali one, but with that one I think you can lie your way out of it.

[ReubenLiew]

Erm... you can still keep everyone alive even if they aren't all loyal.

Bioware record holder is 3 non-loyal members with everyone surviving.

[adam_grif]

My first play through was a 3 : 2 renegade to paragon ratio of decisions made. I got punished for this big time, although I had enough points to keep Miranda + SuZe loyal, I couldn't sway the Quarian council nor could I keep Legion + Tali loyal.



Basically, in order to succeed you have to be very polarized into one way of behaving or the other, with very minimal wiggle room. You can get by with the odd decision not in line with your main, but you can't be balanced by any means and get everybody on-side.



I really dislike the ability to just crank charm/intimidate skills like I did in ME1, which I also did a balanced playthrough of as my main character to import into ME2.



I don't want to be Satan-Hitler, nor do I want to be Jesus-Ghandi. I want to be Commander Shepard, and I want to be able to play him or her as I please without getting punished for not being at one extreme or the other.

[Sister Spite]

What Fredegar said. Just reskill and max out your class skill. Unless you have it already maxed..

[uv23]

Re: everyone surviving with unloyal squadmates. Really? That's news to me, as Jack was always the one to die in my other playthrough attempts. I have also read that the any unloyal squad member who escorts the crew back will die on the way. As far as the paragon skill goes, I do indeed have it maxed.

Modifié par uv23, 04 février 2010 - 06:02 .

[ReubenLiew]

Just don't use Jack for anything special, like holding the barrier for you, and don't bring her along for the boss fight, she SHOULD survive the encounter if you pick your conversation options right.

[adam_grif]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Erm... you can still keep everyone alive even if they aren't all loyal.
Bioware record holder is 3 non-loyal members with everyone surviving.

I'm pretty sure they said their record was 4 LOYAL, not non-loyal, and that it was theoretically possible to do it with only 3 Loyal, but that nobody had done it.

[ReubenLiew]

I stand corrected

[uv23]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Just don't use Jack for anything special, like holding the barrier for you, and don't bring her along for the boss fight, she SHOULD survive the encounter if you pick your conversation options right.

What do you mean by this last part? Does the speech you give have a specific effect?

[Jackal904]

adam_grif wrote...

I don't want to be Satan-Hitler, nor do I want to be Jesus-Ghandi. I want to be Commander Shepard, and I want to be able to play him or her as I please without getting punished for not being at one extreme or the other.

Great statement. Hopefully Bioware sees this and takes it into consideration. I know exactly how you feel. Sometimes I want to be a jerk and sometimes I want to be a nice guy, but if you don't have enough renegade or paragon points you get screwed.

[ReubenLiew]

Some of the speech options, like the last part where you say 'We have to hurry' apparently increases the chance that someone will die.

[ReubenLiew]

I'd like a system where both the paragon and renegade options are always open for you to pick, but if your score isn't high enough it will fail.

[Barrakketh]

I expected to lose Jack going into the final mission with her non-loyal, but she lived anyway. I didn't use her for anything, she just stayed with the 2nd team the whole time. In fact Zaeed wasn't loyal either yet both survived and I got the "no one left behind" result. So, definitely possible to keep non-loyal team members alive.



Just make sure you use Samara for the bubble and not Jack.

[adam_grif]

Jackal904 wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

I don't want to be Satan-Hitler, nor do I want to be Jesus-Ghandi. I want to be Commander Shepard, and I want to be able to play him or her as I please without getting punished for not being at one extreme or the other.

Great statement. Hopefully Bioware sees this and takes it into consideration. I know exactly how you feel. Sometimes I want to be a jerk and sometimes I want to be a nice guy, but if you don't have enough renegade or paragon points you get screwed.

Well the way I play my "canon shepard" (i.e. the main one that I brought in from ME1 and will continue into ME3 with) is that he treats the crew with respect, but isn't afraid to call things like they are. When people mess with him, he's not afraid to go renegade all up in their face. I'll happily do paragon interrupts or renegade interrupts if I think the universe will be a better place because of it - so I save that kid on Omega by breaking his gun, but then I also electrocute that guy repairing the drone because that's going to make my mission easier, and he's my enemy anyway.

I am neither lawful stupid nor chaotic stupid. I attempt to be optimal.

[Frotality]

again, whole problem with morality system, especially considering neutral is typically seen as diplomatic yet i cant negotiate jack (pun not intended). thats a whoel 'nother rant that im sick of repeating though, short story: we would be better off without black and white morality systems.

[JMKnave]

You can be neutral and still have everyone survive. The minimum confirmed loyal to complete the mission with everyone surviving is 3 squadmates. Those 3 people that are loyal would probably have to be the ones leading/doing the tasks. I would assume they would have to be tali or legion as the tech specialist. Miranda or Garrus as the fire team lead. And Samara as the biotic expert. One of those would probably have to go as escort as well. I don't know the exact makeup though.

They said you can complete it with everyone surviving with just 2 theoretically (unconfirmed yet though) but you would have to sacrifice your entire crew and not escort them back to the ship.

Note you would have to also fully outfit your ship with the necessary upgrades to make sure noone dies on it before you actually get into the collector base.

Modifié par JMKnave, 04 février 2010 - 06:40 .

[adam_grif]

JMKnave wrote...

You can be neutral and still have everyone survive.

Yes we know that. But you can't have everybody being loyal to you, and are thus closed off options that are available to people at either extreme of the morality spectrum. You also get fewer dialogue options to deal with tough situations, and you are fully denied a potential squadmate (Morinth).

It's fine to have Paragon/Renegade system, but it's very questionable to link it to Charm/Intimidate like they did in ME2.

[ReplicantZero]

Re the OP, my (infiltrator) Shepard found herself in almost exactly the same situation - sided with Miranda though. Briefly considered going back to an earlier save, but the thought of forcing my Shepard to be a super-naive goody two-shoes (rather than the slightly flawed, cynical heroine that she is) made me decide 'screw it, and screw Jack'.



Have everyone loyal except Jack and Zaeed, neither of whom I particularly care about. Only member not recruited yet is Legion (since haven't done the IFF mission) - am a bit worried that the same thing will happen with Legion and Tali (would have to side with Tali if forced to). Paragon meter is currently just into the final bar, Renegade just over the first.

[Collider]

Pretty sure you don't need loyalty with all squad members to have everyone survive.