87 réponses à ce sujet

[biojekt]

I thought Mass Effect 2 was a vast improvement from its predecessor, but even its many improvements can't hide the fact that the game has become more action and less RPG.  I actually like the move towards more action.  It's a refreshing improvement from the slow and sluggish gameplay of the first.  The problem isn't the fast paced gameplay, but the streamlining of weapons, armor, and abilities.  This move has virtually removed a lot of player options.  We now have more variety with weapons, which is a nice change from the original, but there is very little customization of the characters or their equipment.

In Mass Effect 1, players could choose from a large variety of weapons, armor, weapon mods, armor mods, biotic amps, and omnitools.  This allowed the player to find and buy equipment that could suit the player's playstyle and tactics as well as switch up equipment on the fly depending on the type of combat situation he or she was in.  Players were also able to spend points upgrading shields, armor, or health as well as the regular tech and biotic abilities.  All of these variables contributed towards the RPG experience.

I know that Bioware removed the inventory system from Mass Effect 2 because it was tedious managing hundreds of different items.  I recently replayed an old file of Mass Effect 1 after being the second and I could barely stand to labor through the inventory system let alone wait around for the elevator to take me places.  So I have no issue with the removal of the inventory system for less complex item management.

I think Mass Effect 2 went a little far in one direction and needs to find a balance between what made Mass Effect 1 an RPG and what makes Mass Effect 2 an action shooter/RPG. 


Here are my suggestions:

1. Biotic and Tech abilities should have subtrees where players can invest points into specific attributes of the ability.  For example if I purchase Singularity I can access its subtree and invest points towards range, radius, damage, or duration.  Each and every ability like Pull, Throw, or Bash can have different attributes that players could manipulate.

2. Weapons, Armor, and Shields could have similar subtrees and if you have trouble imagining how it would work, think Dead Space weapon and armor upgrade system.  Each weapon would have its own subtree where players could invest in damage, accuracy, range, ammo capacity, reload speed, or even special ammo or abilities.  The type of weapons that could be upgraded would depend on the type of class you are.  Weapon, armor, and shield upgrades would be dependant on upgrades you purchase from shops or find on the field. 

3. Passive Abilities such as Biotic Amps and Omnitools could have their own tree of upgrades as well.  If you purchase a better biotic amp, it translates into a point that you can spent towards making your biotic abilities more powerful, lowering the recharge time, or boosting your run or jumping (might be fun to jump) speed using biotic powers.  Biotic Amps would have a tree that includes tech power, recharge time, and hacking terminals.

The list goes on but you can see how there are many more options.  If you're the kind of player that doesn't care about this level of player option, then turn on the autolevel feature and play your Gears of Mass Effect.  There now everyone is happy. 

Modifié par biojekt, 04 février 2010 - 09:24 .

[VasQuipQuip]

I's always been more of a shooter then an RPG. I think ME3 will fix most issues. I hope so any way.

[AlanC9]

I guarantee that some players will hate ME3 no matter what it does differently.

[joesk]

IMHO ME2 is less of a rpg then half life was. The only RPG aspect now is the dialog and what little skill allotment there is. ME2 is more akin to a Tom Clancy game then a BioWare game. Don't get me wrong, they wanted to please the FPS players out there, and there are many, but they also discouraged us RPG'rs. There are a treasure trove of FPS games out there (Halo, Gears, Half-Life, etc...) But there aren't many good RPG/Action games in the Sci-Fi realm. System shock and System shock II (old) and Fallout III and Deuce X III(cant wait) are the only ones that I can think of off hand(I know there has to be a few more). So I wonder why they had to do such a harsh change? The only thing I can think of is that they wanted to save money on development by not making a true PC version(In ME1 they made the PC version more like a RPG and less of a shooter.)

[lewis1306]

AlanC9 wrote...

I guarantee that some players will hate ME3 no matter what it does differently.

this statement is so true.

[screwoffreg]

I think that you will be disappointed if you expect those changes. It is clear that with the level 30 level cap in ME 2, it is likely it will just be upped to 60 in ME 3 and, with an addition of a few high level abilities, the current format of leveling is likely to remain the same. If you are hoping for a Dragon Age type system, you may just want to play that game.



As for the RPG elements, this is being argued in like 50 threads on this forum and suffice to say, Bioware makes multiple games with multiple philosophies. If you want a more PC RPGish type experience, there is the Dragon Age series.

[joesk]

screwoffreg wrote...


As for the RPG elements, this is being argued in like 50 threads on this forum and suffice to say, Bioware makes multiple games with multiple philosophies. If you want a more PC RPGish type experience, there is the Dragon Age series.

  Well by that statement, you would have me belive that RPG's have to be in a fantasy setting only? Why can't there be any good SCi-Fi ones? ME1 was a decent RPG/Shooter. Now to me it is more a Shooter with some RPG elements.

[dimidimidimi]

As for the RPG elements, this is being argued in like 50 threads on this forum and suffice to say, Bioware makes multiple games with multiple philosophies. If you want a more PC RPGish type experience, there is the Dragon Age series.

See, this is why I don't get. Mass Effect 1 was a sci-fi RPG. The only one of its kind. As you say "if you want a more PC RPGish type, play Dragon Age" I could say to you "if you want a console Shooter type, play Dead Space or Halo". There are loads of sci-fi shooters. But how many sci-fi RPGs are there out there? None.

I am playing Dragon Age already, and although I love it, I can't say it's something really unique because I've played fantasy RPGs many times in the past (The Witcher, Baldur's Gate etc, etc). Mass Effect 1 was a very unique game because it was the only sci-fi RPG to appear in ages now. Bioware instead opted to turn the series into something that's been done over and over before.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Bioware already has Dragon Age if you want a game that is firmly based on RPG roots.

The Mass Effect IP was always intended to combine elements from both RPGs and Action games to create a genre all its own. Let the Mass Effect games be their own games and stop trying to force conventions on it.

Bioware instead opted to turn the series into something that's been
done over and over before.

There is not a single game on the market that plays like either Mass Effect does.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 04 février 2010 - 08:10 .

[screwoffreg]

dimidimidimi wrote...

As for the RPG elements, this is being argued in like 50 threads on this forum and suffice to say, Bioware makes multiple games with multiple philosophies. If you want a more PC RPGish type experience, there is the Dragon Age series.

See, this is why I don't get. Mass Effect 1 was a sci-fi RPG. The only one of its kind. As you say "if you want a more PC RPGish type, play Dragon Age" I could say to you "if you want a console Shooter type, play Dead Space or Halo". There are loads of sci-fi shooters. But how many sci-fi RPGs are there out there? None.

I am playing Dragon Age already, and although I love it, I can't say it's something really unique because I've played fantasy RPGs many times in the past (The Witcher, Baldur's Gate etc, etc). Mass Effect 1 was a very unique game because it was the only sci-fi RPG to appear in ages now. Bioware instead opted to turn the series into something that's been done over and over before.

My point is that you have a lot of people on this forums who proclaim ME 2 isn't "RPG enough" and cite all sorts of games that have a lot of the qualities of Dragon Age that they like.  I love both games, but I also realize I play them expecting very different things from both.  

[lewis1306]

Actually, i think that it is unfair to judge Mass Effect by the standards of traditional video game RPG's. Bioware's goal with Mass Effect seems to be to make a game that does not fit neatly into the traditional RPG mold.



i don't think that ME2 represents Mass Effect's "straying from it's RPG roots". It represents something that more closely resembles the developer's origional vision.

[thepimpto]

I don't care how they do it. But make ME3 play more like ME1. ME2 was like a completely different game than ME. Still a great game but in my opinion the original was a better game. The first was original the sequel was Halo set in the Mass Effect Universe.

[kraze07]

"but even its many improvements can't hide the fact that the gameplay has become more action and less RPG. I actually like the move towards more action. It's a refreshing improvement from the slow and sluggish gameplay of the first."



I'd have to disagree. ME2 is such an amazing game, but it could've been better if they had kept the RPG elements of the first one. This move to make it more of an action game wasn't the right one imo. If I want to play a TPS I'd play Gears of War or Uncharted.

[DigitalLiquid I]

kraze07 wrote...

"but even its many improvements can't hide the fact that the gameplay has become more action and less RPG. I actually like the move towards more action. It's a refreshing improvement from the slow and sluggish gameplay of the first."

I'd have to disagree. ME2 is such an amazing game, but it could've been better if they had kept the RPG elements of the first one. This move to make it more of an action game wasn't the right one imo. If I want to play a TPS I'd play Gears of War or Uncharted.

If you didn't want to play a TPS i've no idea what you're doing with the ME series.
ME1 was a mediocre shooter & a poor rpg, wrapped around a fantastic story.
ME2 was a great shooter & a different kind of poor rpg, wrapped around a fantastic story.
The "RPG" elements some of you people seem to claim was the best thing about ME1 were badly implemented, even back in 2007 that part of the game seemed badly dated. Now it's been reformed & nicely polished. I agree, ME1 was more an rpg than ME2, it was just a pretty bad at it. Bioware polished a turd...one that i could sniff all day.
.

[xSHAD0WENx]

that's why it was a cool game. it was up to you to find ways to work around the poor game play and find ways to make it more fun. and we did, every time. but with the dumbing down of most of the game play it left us all well. like TPS/FPS gamers. i think i can some it up in these few words.

"RAWR ME SMASH!"

Modifié par xSHAD0WENx, 04 février 2010 - 08:48 .

[DigitalLiquid I]

xSHAD0WENx wrote...

that's why it was a cool game. it was up to you to find ways to work around the poor game play and find ways to make it more fun. and we did, every time. but with the dumbing down of most of the game play it left us all well. like TPS/FPS gamers. i think i can some it up in these few words.

"RAWR ME SMASH!"

I don't understand that logic...
You liked ME1 because it forced you to ignore how **** the gameplay was and make it fun for yourself?
I just...i can't...ugh.

[Farsidedown]

I think they should basically leave Mass Effect as is and bring back the single player version of KOTOR once they finish the mmo version, thus appeasing the sci-fi rpg fans and the rest of the people that love the redone ME2 all at the same time.

That and all the people that are saying, "make ME3 play more like like ME1" are idiots.  Make ME3 play more like an ME2 that Bioware took and vastly improved using community feedback.  But not this feedback...I'm talking about the geniune intelligent feedback they'll get several months from now once all the trolls have packed their bags and left.

Modifié par Farsidedown, 04 février 2010 - 09:07 .

[lewis1306]

thepimpto wrote...

I don't care how they do it. But make ME3 play more like ME1. ME2 was like a completely different game than ME. Still a great game but in my opinion the original was a better game. The first was original the sequel was Halo set in the Mass Effect Universe.

why would you want ME3 to play more like ME1?

of course the first game was origional more origional,. ME2 is a sequel.

are you seriously saying that the gameplay in ME1 is in some way better than the game play in ME2?

which aspect are you refering to?

the combat?
the story developmet?
the converastions?
the inventory?

the only "RPG elements" from ME1 that were left out or redone in ME2 were the ones that were tedious, redundant or supurfluos.

[DigitalLiquid I]

Farsidedown wrote...

I think they should basically leave Mass Effect as is and bring back the single player version of KOTOR once they finish the mmo version, thus appeasing the sci-fi rpg fans and the rest of the people that love the redone ME2 all at the same time.

Have you played KOTOR recently?
The combat system in that game has dated, badly. Which means it would need to be redone...people would complain about the new combat system, thus the cycle continues.

[Xanfyrst]

According to some using a sword makes it more RPG'ish, while using a gun makes it more FPS'ish.

I just dont' get it.

[Brockxz]

actually ME1 and ME2 are more RPG than so called other RPGs nowdays. There are all main RPG elements - character decisions, dialogs that change something and plot change variations. Those are elements that shaped role playing games in early days. Skill points, stats, loot, inventory etc don 't need to be in role playing games. Diablo like loot/action games and jRPGs have ruined this gamer generation with stupid presumption that you have to go kill enemies and strip them naked of all items they have and that you need to gain expierence or any other things to gain levels and put statpoints or whatever else to progress.
So stop making those threads.

Modifié par Brockxz, 04 février 2010 - 09:15 .

[Farsidedown]

DigitalLiquid I wrote...

Farsidedown wrote...

I think they should basically leave Mass Effect as is and bring back the single player version of KOTOR once they finish the mmo version, thus appeasing the sci-fi rpg fans and the rest of the people that love the redone ME2 all at the same time.

Have you played KOTOR recently?
The combat system in that game has dated, badly. Which means it would need to be redone...people would complain about the new combat system, thus the cycle continues.

Oh yeah, because a pure rpg that had no shooter elements WHATSOEVER is going to be turned into a third person shooter because it has to be "redone".  Of course the combat system has dated!  It came out 7 years ago!  But in many ways, it's extremely similar (and in one or two ways superior) to the Dragon Age combat system, and that's anything but dated!  Seriously, can you just use your f*cking brain for a second before you post another troll comment about how Bioware blows at reinventing titles?

Modifié par Farsidedown, 04 février 2010 - 09:16 .

[Allattar1]

Every so often I start to worry when gamers compare new games to what old games have done.

As the gaming industry has grown up and grown genres of games, these genres have obtained cookie cutter molds of what is expected from them.



So if you lable a game an RPG it gets stamped out of said mold and players expect, nay even demand that it must look feel smell like that mold.



Why cannot people play a game and appreciate it for what it is. I am enjoying ME2 and really like the fact that it isn't DA in space. DA is a great game that is a classic rpg, loved it, but ME2 is different and is fantastic for it.



I love that the shooter aspect is tighter and feels more like a fps. (Despite someones insinuation above that fps players are dumb and ooh smash)

If I could change something though it would be more armour and weapons choices, but not over the top. The ME1 choices where too much and just ended up as a fast way of making a ton of cash for me. I like the fact that when you acquire a weapon you can equip everyone.



Now if I could change anything about people, I would stop them trying to pigeonhole things by there names. Unfortunately that is just human nature and applies everywhere, for instance if we have a Steve Martin film, we know that he will fling out tired old jokes, act maniacally for a bit and end up marrying the girl, despite his age. Its what he does, he has pigeonholed himself.



However if we look at some of the actors who have dared to break away from there typecasting, like Jim Carey in Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind. They can be amazingly different and great. Put them back in the cookie cutter mold, and bleh not so great.

[CastorKrieg]

I love how the action in ME2 is handles. I love the upgrades and the smooth combat. I've been playing cRPGs for 15 years, but I don't want to play the same stuff all over again, I'm not Japanese. There are hardcore RPGs with your fancy stats and numbers, and there are other games that take some RPG elements. Look at slashers - every single one now has some sort of advancement path, building new weapons, etc. It brings depth.



If you like RPG gameplay roots so much go play WoW - the whole game is about min/max and stats. Or any jRPG on the market. I owuld like ME to at least be this one franchise that takes some things "lite" and goes for great story and execution.

[loboME2]

I would retain the combat in ME2 (minus the obvious Fight Here! location designs), different armors like in ME1 (with a sortable inventory), diffierent guns in ME1 + firing (burst versus continuous, etc) types in ME2, all accessible only in Normandy (like the DLC chest in DAO).