87 réponses à ce sujet

[Gatt9]

Fallout_IX wrote...

ME 2 is fine, probly the best rpg/game ive ever played. i dont get how RPG = Loads of useless skill trees and 100s of random items you wont use (which is what ME1 was like)

Then you don't like RPG's.  RPG's aren't meant to be Shooters with a little level number in the corner.  It's really counter-productive to demand RPG's become Shooters because you don't like what constitutes an RPG.

with me2 offering conversation interrupts and some more detailed choices the character can make, me2 is MORE an rpg than me1 was with the exception of the romance options which were downgraded.

Character's making decisions based upon your ability to pull a trigger really fast is not a feature of an RPG.  Dialogue doesn't make something an RPG either,  especially when the dialogue is random and has no real conneciton to the way the game is being played.

Example:  I broke into an apartment and looted it.  I broke into another apartment and looted it in front of it's owners.  I broke into a third apartment,  found looters already there,  and my "Good guy" option was to tell them how much I dislike looters and that they should change.

Inconsistent and very much counter to what an RPG would do,  very much inline with what a shooter would do.

ME2 isn't an RPG.  It's a shooter.  It's completely Player Based Skill,  even down to making moral choices,  and it lacks any kind of acknowledgment of the choices a player makes.

[Bigeyez]

Wow Kudos to the OP. This is one of the few threads on these forums that has criticism for the game and instead of just bashing everyone and everything that doesn't agree, puts it's concerns in a well written, thought out manner!

So what you are suggesting is basically like the weapon upgrading from Dead Space, but for individual skills...

Thats a pretty interesting idea and would add lots of depth to every class. Good idea in my book. /Agreed!

Edit: Guys don't turn this thread into yet another "is this game an RPG" debate. God knows we've had more then enough of those threads to argue back and forth about that....

Modifié par Bigeyez, 04 février 2010 - 07:11 .

[PSRdirector]

SurfaceBeneath wrote...

Bioware already has Dragon Age if you want a game that is firmly based on RPG roots.

The Mass Effect IP was always intended to combine elements from both RPGs and Action games to create a genre all its own. Let the Mass Effect games be their own games and stop trying to force conventions on it.

Bioware instead opted to turn the series into something that's been
done over and over before.

There is not a single game on the market that plays like either Mass Effect does.

how about boarderlands? it plays alot like mass effect 2 does just with out the dialoge

[thepimpto]

I just want to know why Bioware felt it necessary to reinvent the wheel with ME2. To me they bastardized what made ME great, to sell more copies. I liked Mass Effect because it was a shooter and played nothing Halo. I hate Halo. ME2 felt like Halo slapped with a Bioware tag. Don't get me wrong, its a great game. Already playing my third playthrough, but I still just don't understand the reasoning behind scrapping the ME model, and creating the straight up shooter. Obviously they didn't listen to Kirrahe and "hold the line". I don't care about returning to rpg roots, I just want a return to ME fundamentals.



Look at the pokemon series. Some of the greatest rpgs made spanning three game systems. All of them following the same formula, and they keep selling. They may add new things but they are all basically the same game.

[Halo Quea]

biojekt wrote...

I thought Mass Effect 2 was a vast improvement from its predecessor, but even its many improvements can't hide the fact that the game has become more action and less RPG.  I actually like the move towards more action.  It's a refreshing improvement from the slow and sluggish gameplay of the first.  The problem isn't the fast paced gameplay, but the streamlining of weapons, armor, and abilities.  This move has virtually removed a lot of player options.  We now have more variety with weapons, which is a nice change from the original, but there is very little customization of the characters or their equipment.

In Mass Effect 1, players could choose from a large variety of weapons, armor, weapon mods, armor mods, biotic amps, and omnitools.  This allowed the player to find and buy equipment that could suit the player's playstyle and tactics as well as switch up equipment on the fly depending on the type of combat situation he or she was in.  Players were also able to spend points upgrading shields, armor, or health as well as the regular tech and biotic abilities.  All of these variables contributed towards the RPG experience.

I know that Bioware removed the inventory system from Mass Effect 2 because it was tedious managing hundreds of different items.  I recently replayed an old file of Mass Effect 1 after being the second and I could barely stand to labor through the inventory system let alone wait around for the elevator to take me places.  So I have no issue with the removal of the inventory system for less complex item management.

I think Mass Effect 2 went a little far in one direction and needs to find a balance between what made Mass Effect 1 an RPG and what makes Mass Effect 2 an action shooter/RPG. 


Here are my suggestions:

1. Biotic and Tech abilities should have subtrees where players can invest points into specific attributes of the ability.  For example if I purchase Singularity I can access its subtree and invest points towards range, radius, damage, or duration.  Each and every ability like Pull, Throw, or Bash can have different attributes that players could manipulate.

2. Weapons, Armor, and Shields could have similar subtrees and if you have trouble imagining how it would work, think Dead Space weapon and armor upgrade system.  Each weapon would have its own subtree where players could invest in damage, accuracy, range, ammo capacity, reload speed, or even special ammo or abilities.  The type of weapons that could be upgraded would depend on the type of class you are.  Weapon, armor, and shield upgrades would be dependant on upgrades you purchase from shops or find on the field. 

3. Passive Abilities such as Biotic Amps and Omnitools could have their own tree of upgrades as well.  If you purchase a better biotic amp, it translates into a point that you can spent towards making your biotic abilities more powerful, lowering the recharge time, or boosting your run or jumping (might be fun to jump) speed using biotic powers.  Biotic Amps would have a tree that includes tech power, recharge time, and hacking terminals.

The list goes on but you can see how there are many more options.  If you're the kind of player that doesn't care about this level of player option, then turn on the autolevel feature and play your Gears of Mass Effect.  There now everyone is happy. 

You know I really like this idea.   If something like this had been employed by Bioware, we wouldn't have gotten such a dumbed down game.   A feature that would shut off the deeper RPG elements would certainly allow the  the shooter fans to run and gun through the game the way they want.   RPG fans could get back to deeper armor and weapon customization, expanded weapon skills and biotic trees and a less simplified UI. 

When an offical suggestion thread gets set up and stickied, you should re-post this immediately

[biojekt]

Will do. Considering how many people are wanting more RPG gameplay for Mass Effect 3 and that Bioware seems to listen to its customers, I'm confident they will probably find a balance between ME1 and ME2 styles of gameplay.

[Besetment]

Incognito_Panda wrote...
Bring back the old stats screen, where you had a view of how powerful your biotic barriers were, your armour, and your health, displayed by numbers ranging from 1-400 or something. You actually felt great when you found a new suit.

One of the things ME1 did kind of well was the use of bars in the inventory screen. You pick up a Savant X for the first time and compare it to your current biotic amp and all the bars are like twice as long so you practically fall out of your chair. There are deffo ways to make the same effect in ME2 without changing any game mechanics. I tend not to use the 'researched upgrades' menu very much since the information isn't organised in a way where I can immediately see what cumulative effect it has on my character.

Thats not to say that ME1 didn't have problems that ME2 addressed because in ME1 you picked up so many redundant items that you just tend to keep a select few that have the highest stats and sell everything else. The good thing about ME2 is that there is very little redundancy. There are very few situations where you acquire some new ability or weapon or armour piece and it completely replaces whatever you were using before it. However this can work against itself. In ME1 you constantly get bombarded with weapon and item drops so you are constantly replacing your gear with ones that have slightly better stats. In ME2 the better stats thing comes from upgrades but they aren't as visible.

So in order to ensure the player is feeling like their dude is upgrading constantly, you need to show this information and make it clear. Theres one Sniper Rifle you can acquire fairly early on in ME2 which becomes your endgame weapon so to feel like you are gaining more killing power, you need to see how all your SR upgrades are making it better and then how Operative and Tactical Cloak further modify it and then how ammo type effects your weapon damage versus health/armor/shields/barriers. etc.  In between levelling up you can still feel like your character is improving continuously as opposed to nothing happening for a few missionsand then a sudden, huge improvement on level up.

To BioWare: Only being able to change clothes at the Normandy was a good addition I felt, and that you can't use that armor you just found before the mission is over. But when it is overand you take a look at the goods it reads "10% more health", or "5% more ammo"...WHO CARES!? Whole point with new equipment is to see progression!! People give two turds about whether you get a 5% shield boost or not. Why can't you stack it up, gettin 5 then 10 then 20% like ME1?

Or better yet, show the cumulative effect of +% shields and +% health by having base health + each modifier = BIG numbers! The thing about an n7 armour piece saying +5% shields is that I don't know how much shields I got in the first place. So is this alot of shields? Not very much? Is it enough to survive an extra bullet from a heavy pistol?

Modifié par Besetment, 05 février 2010 - 09:45 .

[Frotality]

AlanC9 wrote...

I guarantee that some players will hate ME3 no matter what it does differently.

this is a given, cant please everyone, but you can not abandon tried and true progression elements.

my main issue is the lack of any sembalnce of a loot system, less weapons than assassins creed 2, barely any armor and not so much as a helmet toggle for special armors (liara making out with a faceplate ftl). needs mroe complexity and meaningful choices in regards to development and equipment. not gonna elaborate, sick of typing my thoughts...

[Nogaurd]

I did not read the replies to this post.



OP your ideas are great!!! The skill tree could be like Titan Quest, Diablo 2 etc. I love it. As for the weapons idea...that was even better. I thought Dead Space had a great idea with what they did.



Bioware take note of this guy

[Cygnus Atratus]

When I play an RPG I want to role-play and immerse myself in a fantastic world. I wouldn't mind if they did away with classes, levels and all other old-school DnD rotting left-overs.



I want my character to develop according to my play style, and not because I spent this arbitrary amount of XP-points here or there. ME2 simplified things, which is good. But the franchise was based on a class and level-system to begin with so it's too late to change now.

[Terror_K]

It's not too late to give some more depth to the new systems they've put in. I think with a little bit more effort on BioWare's part we could get back a lot of what was lost from ME1 for ME3 simply by using the systems from ME2 and enhancing them. The weapons and loot aspect needs the most work, IMO.



If BioWare can take the stuff that worked in both games and hybridize them by introducing more ME1 elements in via a ME2 fashion, we'd have the perfect Action RPG on our hands. As it stands we have two really good games with one with broken RPG elements and another with too few RPG elements that lack in depth. For one thing, ME2 proved that one doesn't need inventory management, but it also proved that too few items make the game feel shallow.

[Eledran]

I agree, loved the game, but was somewhat surprised by the lack or armor customization.

I happened to have the collector's armor, so that way I had more than others; otherwise I would've spend almost the entire game with the same N7 armor (maybe customizing 2-3 pieces, although it's not really needed).

Twas also a major overhaul that your companions only had 2 costumes, that also affected some strange behaviour like Jack running around naked with only a breath mask in impossible planetary conditions or in practically outer space (Reaper IFF).


For me the perfect system would be something in between the first game and the second: ditching the 'Predator I / II / III etc' types of armor, but still having different models that you can then customize a bit.
Like buying armor of the 'Predator' type then customizing it with some specific pieces.

Would require a whole lot of effort though.

Modifié par Eledran, 05 février 2010 - 11:31 .

[tmontana1093]

I like this thread, but don't forget exploration. The worlds and missions were very linear this time around. We RPGers want to explore!