86 réponses à ce sujet

[Chrisimo79]

fecakovacs wrote...

I would choose the Quarians, mainly because of Tali's loyalty to me and because they are interesting people. However as I played a more or less Paragon character I do hope that there will be an option to make peace between them. I persuaded Tali and Legion to cooperate, and there were ideas at the Migrant Fleet about peace, so I would say that will be an option possibly (make peace and lead them both against the Reapers).

It shouldn't be that much of a problem (at least in theory) to make peace between them. Most Quarians just want their homeworld back and Geth do not care for specific planets.

[Katsaurs]

As much as I love the Quarians and Tali as a character I'm afraid I'd have to side with the Geth, purely because this whole thing was the Quarians fault to begin with. Essentially they wanted basic robotic slaves to help in their tasks, and with time programmed them to do more and more menial and complex tasks which they were either too lazy to do themselves or couldn't for various reasons. To me it's only natural that the Geth algorithms started to interact with one and other to create a hive mind and thusly, a somewhat sentient being.

The Quarians went too far with their creations and instead of looking for a workaround they chose to use hostility and attack what they themselves created; who'se to say that there couldn't have been peace between the two? It was never explored because, as stated, the Quarians panicked that they were now using sentients as slaves...and wanted to destroy them? The Geth merely reacted to the threat in order to survive, even if that meant turning on their creators. Again, to me, it's only natural that to the Geth Quarian creator = destructor after that stunt, hence why they drove them from their home world and no doubt still regard them warily if not being outright hostile all the time. They wanted to live, not be destroyed. They're only dangerous when threatened as it can be seen with the history between the two.

As some have already stated before, Legion explains that it's only a small percentage of heretics that sided with the reapers; the majority of the Geth are actually curious and questionable now of their Quarian creators, hence why Tali and Legion end up in conflict aboard the Normandy.

Personally if the choice was ever available in ME3, I'd wish for my Shepard to diplomatically try and settle some sort of peace treaty between both Creator and Creation; I honestly feel it is possible for both to coexist on the same planet. No one on either side has to be forced to die for the right to live. Sure, the Geth can be dangerous, no doubt about it and some were rewritten for the reapers use, but the Quarians are smart; surely they could find a way to program failsafes or something into the Geth that they themselves would allow to be programmed into them, just to stop a repeat of the heretic code from happening.

Modifié par Katsaurs, 04 février 2010 - 09:44 .

[Proud Larry]

The Quarians were wrong to try to kill the Geth after they became self aware, but it's too late to fix past mistakes. Depending on the Quarian lifespan, I'm fairly confident that most of or all of the Quarians who started the Morning War are long dead. The reasons for the war are no longer meaningful and it's mostly bad blood that keeps the conflict brewing. Quarians don't actually want to retake the homeworld (most of them are too young to remember it anyway) but they all know somebody killed fighting Geth and blame the Geth and keep fighting Geth. Vicious cycle, that. The conflict between the Geth and Quarians has basically broken down into "we won't stop until they stop", with the Quarians not fully understanding or trusting that the Geth want peace and the Geth continuing to defend themselves until the Quarians convince them that they will stop attacking.

Here's hoping that smoothing things over between Tali and Legion has some sort of impact. Especially if you took Legion to see Admiral Koris for a "peace talk" and then advocated peace during the trial AND got Tali off the hook.

Modifié par Proud Larry, 04 février 2010 - 09:45 .

[TLK Spires]

compromise over destruction. i'll take both.

[Chrisimo79]

Katsaurs wrote...
Personally if the choice was ever available in ME3, I'd wish for my Shepard to diplomatically try and settle some sort of peace treaty between both Creator and Creation; I honestly feel it is possible for both to coexist on the same planet. No one on either side has to be forced to die for the right to live. Sure, the Geth can be dangerous, no doubt about it and some were rewritten for the reapers use, but the Quarians are smart; surely they could find a way to program failsafes or something into the Geth that they themselves would allow to be programmed into them, just to stop a repeat of the heretic code from happening.

I don't think the heretics were overwritten to follow the Reapers. They chose to side with them. And I doubt the Geth would allow the Quarians to program them.

[Katsaurs]

Chrisimo79 wrote...

Katsaurs wrote...
Personally if the choice was ever available in ME3, I'd wish for my Shepard to diplomatically try and settle some sort of peace treaty between both Creator and Creation; I honestly feel it is possible for both to coexist on the same planet. No one on either side has to be forced to die for the right to live. Sure, the Geth can be dangerous, no doubt about it and some were rewritten for the reapers use, but the Quarians are smart; surely they could find a way to program failsafes or something into the Geth that they themselves would allow to be programmed into them, just to stop a repeat of the heretic code from happening.

I don't think the heretics were overwritten to follow the Reapers. They chose to side with them. And I doubt the Geth would allow the Quarians to program them.

If they weren't overwritten then ok, I can accept that it was a choice. What I'm a little confused about is if they work as a hive mind and all have the same thoughts and same choices, how come all the Geth didn't follow the reapers? I'm not sure if it was explained in game somewhere, I'll have to go through again to check but that's one thing that I'm a bit befuddled about ot if I msised something.

And as for being programmed, who knows? They may allow it for peace, or perhaps Legion is able to so himself. If he is able to rewrite/overwrite the heretics code then maybe he/non heretic Geth can find a way to stop such anomallies from happening again?

Modifié par Katsaurs, 04 février 2010 - 09:50 .

[Proud Larry]

Legion explains it best, but the the whole concept of the Geth is very confusing.



Legion says that they are NOT a "hive mind", because the "minds" of individual platforms are not each conscious. That they are not fully conscious until they have joined together in large numbers within a hub (or mobile platform like himself). That they are not many minds coming together as one, but many eyes connected to one mind. They all have their own perspective but only one cognizance.

[Palathas]

I actually side with both, it's the Heretics that caused all the problems. Initially it was just the Geth trying to survive but the Heretics took it to the Organics. I'd do everything I could do to bring the Geth and Quarians back together.

[Proud Larry]

Yeah! Back together! Things would be so much better for both of them, for galactic society, if they worked together.

[Katsaurs]

Proud Larry wrote...

Legion explains it best, but the the whole concept of the Geth is very confusing.

Legion says that they are NOT a "hive mind", because the "minds" of individual platforms are not each conscious. That they are not fully conscious until they have joined together in large numbers within a hub (or mobile platform like himself). That they are not many minds coming together as one, but many eyes connected to one mind. They all have their own perspective but only one cognizance.

A thanks for explaining, it puts it in better perspective that's for sure

And yes things really would be much better if the two got along. They'd be a great force to have when rallying against the reapers in ME3

[Chrisimo79]

Katsaurs wrote...

If they weren't overwritten then ok, I can accept that it was a choice. What I'm a little confused about is if they work as a hive mind and all have the same thoughts and same choices, how come all the Geth didn't follow the reapers? I'm not sure if it was explained in game somewhere, I'll have to go through again to check but that's one thing that I'm a bit befuddled about ot if I msised something.

Geth programs are individuals like we with a more sophisticated form of communication. The individual Geth is probably not as capable as a human (but a human on his own without the possibility to communicate isn't very capable, either), but it can make it's own decisions. As far as I understand it, there was disagreement over whether the Geth should follow the Old Machines (Reapers) and it was then decided that those in favor of doing so would leave the others.

And as for being programmed, who knows? They may allow it for peace, or perhaps Legion is able to so himself. If he is able to rewrite/overwrite the heretics code then maybe he/non heretic Geth can find a way to stop such anomallies from happening again?

I think the Geth would rather leave the Quarian homeworld as they have no real use for planets.

[Homebound]

aaniadyen wrote...

Which side do you think is in the right?

Both

[Collider]

One of the problems with this thread is that "siding" with the Geth or the Quarians is incredibly vague. For those who are decrying siding with the Quarians are being prejudiced or stereotyping the Geth, the whole "siding" with either group is just about same. The Quarians who attacked the Geth, like someone else said, when they first became aware are dead by now. You don't need to side with either one, always neither the quarians nor the geth are completely all bent on killing each other.

[Palathas]

Proud Larry wrote...

Legion explains it best, but the the whole concept of the Geth is very confusing.

Legion says that they are NOT a "hive mind", because the "minds" of individual platforms are not each conscious. That they are not fully conscious until they have joined together in large numbers within a hub (or mobile platform like himself). That they are not many minds coming together as one, but many eyes connected to one mind. They all have their own perspective but only one cognizance.

They aren't a hive mind, think of a Geth physical robot as a PC. Now think of their mind as a program, a separate program from the robot, or as Legion calls it, the platform. Now think of the fact that they are joined via an intragalaxy network, very much the same as our internet. They can share info, they can experience each others visual happenings but if they get cut off from that network they get stuck in that 1 Geth physical robot.
Imagine your computer being connected to the internet, you can run multiple programs, like having multiple Geth in one PC, then all of a sudden you get disconnected. All of a sudden just your computer can talk to itself and all else is quiet.
Not greatly explained but maybe someone else can help out. :innocent:

Modifié par Palathas, 04 février 2010 - 10:09 .

[Gocad]

 Despite the fact that the Geth were the enemy in ME1 I already felt back then that Quarians deserved little sympathy for what they happened to them. And the events in ME2 make the Quarians look even more bad.

[Tyreal42a]

As innocent as Legion makes the Geth seem in this conflict, they're still essentially holding the Quarian's homeworld like a hostage. Geth can live anywhere, I assume. Habitable planets for the Quarians are extremely limited.  However, strangely enough, I get the feeling they want peace with the Quarians, and have a strange respect for them as their creators, but simply don't understand their actions.

As strange and simple as it seems, it's almost as if they just want an apology, an answer to their questions, and maybe something else from the Quarians and they'd return their homeworld. But I doubt it would be as simple as that.

One thing I wanted to ask Legion is, if they're so peaceful, how come no ship that entered Geth space, even to negotiate peace talks in the name of the council, ever returned? Assuming the ME1 codex is to be believed.

Modifié par Tyreal42a, 04 février 2010 - 01:35 .

[Gocad]

Tyreal42a wrote...

As innocent as Legion makes the Geth seem in this conflict, they're still essentially holding the Quarian's homeworld like a hostage. Geth can live anywhere, I assume. Habitable planets for the Quarians are extremely limited.  However, strangely enough, I get the feeling they want peace with the Quarians, and have a strange respect for them as their creators, but simply don't understand their actions.

Even if the Quarians  were able to return to their homeworld right away, they still would have to keep their suits on. The way I read it they want their homeworld back because it used to be their homeworld and not because it's the only planet where they could ditch their suits right away. 

Modifié par Gocad, 04 février 2010 - 01:46 .

[Tyreal42a]

That's true, but it was still their homeworld. And they could adapt to it much, much quicker than likely any other world.



Of course, the argument could be made it's also the Geth's homeworld, though the Quarians were there first/longer.

[greengroove]

Geth, from both a moral and practical standpoint. They had every right to defend themselves, and a Geth fleet would be way more useful against the Reapers than the Flotilla.

The codex mentions something about how the Heretics represented about 5% of the Geth's numbers. Yeah...with those kinds of numbers on my side, **** the Quarians.

Modifié par greengroove, 04 février 2010 - 01:51 .

[Gocad]

I had the impression that the Geth don't care about specific planets. The main problem between the Geth and the Quarians is the issue of recognizing the Geth as a species, which the Quarians apparently don't want to do.

[HunterX6]

I will simply make them work together again if they wanted and make sure they dont interfere with each other again, it wont be easy and it will take lot of persuading but it must be done for the greater good.

[HunterX6]

I will simply make them work together again if they wanted and make sure they dont interfere with each other again, it wont be easy and it will take lot of persuading but it must be done for the greater good.

[Kavva]

I like Tali but i would side with Geths, becouse Quarians treated them like slaves and didnt acknowladge that they have evolved. Instead of trying to communicate they wanted to destroy them. From the military point - Geths are much more stronger and after chaising away Quarians they didnt destroy their homeworld. Their logic are mathematic equations - and i kinda like that

[FlintlockJazz]

To those saying that the Quarians should die for attacking the Geth: it's not the Quarians alive today who attacked the Geth, it was their ancestors. If you go by that logic, we should all be killed for crimes our ancestors did to each other, the Quarians today are being punished by being forced to live on ****ty ships merely for being born Quarian now, so are understandably upset.

[Tyreal42a]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

To those saying that the Quarians should die for attacking the Geth: it's not the Quarians alive today who attacked the Geth, it was their ancestors. If you go by that logic, we should all be killed for crimes our ancestors did to each other, the Quarians today are being punished by being forced to live on ****ty ships merely for being born Quarian now, so are understandably upset.

A fine point, but do the Geth understand that? After all, the Geth are practically immortal and don't really have individual personalities.