103 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanramon]

I think the ending will be similar to dragon age origins where you can call reinforcements depending on who you chose.



So if you chose to help the geth in the "battle" against the Quarians you will will have there help and vice versa.

[smudboy]

Arijharn wrote...
Above all else, I want Bioware to explain what I perceive to be plot holes from ME2. While minor I suppose, I want them to explain with the same sort of scientific reasoning things like they did from the first one (which is partly why I think the first me was so meteorically successful).

1) Why did Wilson betray you/The Lazarus Project?

I also had a huge problem with this.  It's only hinted that his motives were Miranda and money.  But why would he kill everyone after two years when the project was over? Did he shoot himself in the leg?  How come he was surprised to hear Shepard's alive from Jacob, when we have a cutscene of him watching over Shepard with Miranda?  Did he want to kill Shepard?  Why?  Wasn't that the point of 2 years of your life?  Why change your mind now?

And the whole week later if things weren't bad, he'd get all the ass and money he'd ever dream...

2) Miranda/Jacob becoming aware of just how deep the Cerberus experimentations have gone (you can sort of explain it to miranda, but she sort of dismisses them). I say this because I personally think that Cerberus isn't an evil organisation and that perhaps even their experimentations are needed, because you never know the nature of the next threat, and even if you're a pacifist, that doesn't mean the next guy isn't.

Ditto with the Wilson issue.  The Praggia lab had a whole team of scientists doing brutal tests on children, but Wilson killed nearly everyone.  And all we've got is Miranda's say so.  Yet TIM says Wilson was one of his best agents.  We can chalk it all up to him being a genius/feeling unappreciated, whatever, but c'mon.  At least tell us what was going on.

3) The nature of Shepherd's injuries, just how much work the Lazarus Project was. Telling me they miraculously raised me from the dead without explainations is jumping-the-shark to me, especially when in the first game they meticulously explained how GARDIAN lasers worked. What was the condition of shep's body, where was it located? In orbit or on the ground? If it was located on the ground, how could it even exist after going through unshielded, the heat of atmospheric re-entry (and not necessarily at the precise angle to provide the least amount of friction)?

Big time.  Depressurization, re-entry, and smacking down on a planet.  All I care about is the brain, the rest could be sci-fi believably rebuilt.  The audio logs didn't do sh*t to help anything.  The helmet was preserved, it seems, since you can pick it up later, but if it was left on the planet, that means his brain was exposed while the Blue Suns picked up the body = irrecoverable brain.  It needs some serious storytelling here.

4) Impact of your choices of re-writing the Geth or not, in terms of larger storyline or not. Eitherway, I agree with the OP when he said that the geth were going to be a huge factor into ME3's storyline (or at least, I hope so). The storyline of the quarians deciding on their war and the little conversations with Legion implying emotion (his hesitant speech of 'no data available' when pressed on why it decided on using Shep's n7 shoulder plate I think proves it's burgeoning emotional state, even if it may not be aware of it) are just so juicy it's impossible to ignore.

Sure, good thoughts for ME3.  But the biggest plot hole after Cyber Jesus is why Harbinger was building a Reaper in such a way.  It's almost completely illogical.

[Peppard]

This is a fun thread, with lots of interesting speculation. OP,you hit on a lot of the major themes.

Smudboy wrote:

Sure, good thoughts for ME3. But the biggest plot hole after Cyber Jesus is why Harbinger was building a Reaper in such a way. It's almost completely illogical.

Yes, I think that should have been explained a bit more. As others have said, the smoothie process is probably how Reapers reproduce, and is just as much a part of their end goal for "reaping" the universe when they invade as taking our tech. The Reaper's original "open the relay and invade" plan was foiled,so they used their remote controlled Collector agents to build a new vanguard Reaper to replace Sovereign. They probably planned for that Human Reaper to then go open the Relay for the rest. A round-about way of doing things, but another theme we hear about how is the more you control/indoctrinate something, the less capable that controlled being is. So they picked an indirect attack on human colonies rather than trying a direct attack to regain the Citadel and Relays (which could have roused the more powerful races to prepare better defenses). That's not a great explanation, but that's what I sort of came up with to make ME2 sort of work.



I'll just repost this from the "me3 endings thread",but this was my random musing on how ME3 could end:

It should end with the destruction of all the Mass Relays, so that "galactic civilation" is separated and forced to evolve and "build its own future" (as Legion said the Geth wanted to do).



My goofy idea for how that happens:

Vigil said the Reapers usual mode of "reaping" was to shut down all the Mass Relays, to crush Galactic Trade and defense, allowing them to pick off systems sector by sector. That was stopped only because the keepers evolved, plus the protheans put in some failsafes.



Well in me3, the agents of the reapers manage to undo the failsafes (while humanity was distracted with the collector threat and the council was busy denying the Reaper's existence). Then they bring most of the relays down for ships that don't have Reaper IFFs. Shep, of course, will still have that IFF, and that allows Shep to use the relays. That leads to Shep being the only one who can jump around the galaxy, racing to try to get relays open so the alliance/council fleets can defend the galaxy. As the fight goes on, Shep realizes that it s a losing battle--Shep can't be everywhere at once, and the best way to stop the Reapers is to turn their technology against them, by inverting the IFF so it starts destroying Reaper ships. The side effect from that though is that the relay network is destroyed. The game ends with Shepard, and all races on the citadel cut off from their homeworlds, tasked with somehow having to reinvent the mass relays to restore galactic travel beyond the limited FTL flight. And that sets up a leap forward in the timeline,for another game set in the far off future, to rediscover the "lost" civilations in the galaxy, as a brave new player controlled character sets out on a ship called "the Shepard".

[Rocket Weazle]

Doesn't Wilson work for the Shadow Broker to get Shepard's body?

There's no proof, but if this never gets resolved, I'm just gonna keep believin' that.

[lemonhead906]

I've thought for several day about what'll in ME3, after reading every comment that has been posted in this forum i still think that the original post is the closest. I think that the Illusive man will get some reaper tech no matter what but I also think that he has a connection with the reapers(I think it'sthe eyes) and that he is doing the same thing Saren did in ME1(he's just soley doing it for humans).



I could be completely wrong here and if there is evidence that I am please tell me so I'm not in the dark.

[nic0dem]

I read all of this and I enjoyed ALL speculation.

ME3 will still be unpredictable though imo. Who knows what BW will do for the finale.

[Wilbertfrog]

I can't see Bioware forcing any characters on us. I'm sure if they did, it would enrage alot of fans, as one of the main features of the game is the continued story element.

Look at Wrex. He was one of the most developed/interesting/cool characters in ME1, yet Bioware happily gave you the option to kill him off. The concept is the same. Why would they give us the option to kill off our team if it has no repercussions in the next game?

Which leads me on to my next point. I think it's fair to say that the nature of the suicide mission outcome didn't really have any effect in ME2. What I mean is, there was no real incentive (besides an achievement) to go through all the trouble to make sure your buddies turned out OK, or any negative impact if you managed to kill most of them off. The ability to save/let your crew die in ME2 was pointless. It had no repercussions at all.

In my mind, this makes it clear that the outcome of the suicide mission will have consequences in ME3. If Bioware made it so, say Garrus, Tali and Miranda came back no matter what, and Grunt, Thane and Mordin die no matter what, what would be the point? Why not just set this in stone in ME2 to save the bother of angry fans complaining that "But... Garrus died..."

Assuming I'm right, and ME3 adjusts depending on who survived, we have a dilemma. Could Bioware really be expected to animate/voice/develop characters that may not even feature in the game? Sure it would be cool, but not very practical.

Therefor, my prediction is that all the characters in ME2, in ME3, will fill roles like Wrex does in ME2. Roles that can be easily switched with similar characters, ie: Wreave. Or, some characters may not be around regardless, Thane for instance (More on this later). If this were true, it may make for alot of angry fans but it also gives scope for ME1 characters to come back, Liara for instance, as well as a greater host of new characters; something I'm sure the Bioware creative team is eager to do.

In terms of plot, yes. I agree it will be the idea of creating/uniting an army. It's the obvious next step. As the galaxy descends into conflict, can Shep unite em against The Reapers?

This opens up the logical "diplomat" next step. That is, the characters (or some of the characters) you manage to save in ME2 can act as diplomats to their corresponding races in ME3, making it easier to get their kindred onboard. Something like that.

As for the idea of The Reapers being "good", and saving the Universe from itself, I'm not so sure. It's possible. It would give Shep a great choice at the end, but it would also limit Bioware in terms of possible sequels if you give Shep the opportunity to destroy all life. And despite ME as we know it being a trilogy, I'm sure Bioware want to keep their options open.

So. Based on this, MY character list:

ME1 characters:

-Ashley/Kaiden: Certainly will play a major part as an NPC. The only difficulty of having this one as a squad-member is that there would have to be two completely different threads of gameplay. I wouldn't rule it out though.

-Garrus: (see ME2)

-Wrex/Wreave: Not a squaddie. I'm sure they will feature in the story though for Krogan recruitment.

-Tali: (see ME2)

-Liara: We'll see her again. I think as a squad-member. There will surely be some Asari conflict over her being Benezia's daughter. But yeah. Squaddie.

---------------------------

ME2: (as said, if anyone dies in ME2, I don't expect them back. Instead there will be a copy character, like Wreave)

-Miranda: Probably instrumental in recruiting/controlling The Illusive Man. Or perhaps she will get in the way and get all hormonal about the alliance. You may have to kill her

-Jacob: If he survives, he probably won't feature all that much in ME3. I bet he becomes a politician.

-Mordin: Dead. He won't be back, he'll either have died in ME2, or died of old age. Perhaps expect his nephew?

-Garrus: If he survives, he'll have some military role. I can see him as an Admiral Ackbar type guy. Probably gets blown up. I don't expect him to be the Turian "diplomat". He isn't all thaht wrapped up in Turian culture.

-Jack: Is tricky. I'm not sure what Bioware has in store for Jack. Maybe she becomes some sort of crime person or something. You may have to kill her too

-Grunt: I can see him serving as a diplomat between the Krogans and Shep. Perhaps taking over from Wrex/Wreave at some point as Urdnot Chief.

-Thane: Dead. We know he has a life-threatening disease. I call him a dead man no matter what the outcome in ME2

-Samara/Morinth: I don't think a huge role. Maybe you recruit the Justicars but it seems unlikely. This because you have the old "dual thread" problem. If they survives they will certainly have a cameo though.

Tali: If alive, Quarian diplomat. I can definitely see this happen. EVERYBODY loves Tali. But as I have said before: I can't see Bioware bringing back a character who died.

Legion: Geth diplomat. In a sense it doesn't matter what Legion's outcome is. He's a pretty boring character anyway, and doesn't do much.

ADDITIONAL:

-Joker: Of course
-Chakwas: Probably
-EDI: Probably
-Chambers: If she survived, maybe.

-----------------------

New and exciting characters?

This is basically just guess work but...

-Mordin's nephew? He's referenced afew times and it would be nice to have another him.
-A GREEN Krogan. The green ones look too awesome to deny one a place in the squad.
-A Drell. Thane's son?
-A Turian. Hopefully a female.
-Maybe a Batarian? I don't think they are very likable though.
-A new race. A 'Raloi' perhaps? We don't know what they look like, but they are talked about a bit.
-An Elcor. (fingers crossed)
-NOT a Vorcha or a Volus.

Modifié par Wilbertfrog, 27 mai 2010 - 03:58 .

[Lunatic LK47]

Average Gatsby wrote...
Sub Conflict- Liara VS Shadow Broker. They both will have a significant
role to play, obviously from the previous two games, and it is likely
that the Shadow Broker will be revealed. What will he be is anyone's
guess, but since everyone suspects it's an organization, its probably
NOT that. I'm thinking its one person, but its more of a title thats
passed from owner to owner. Or its an AI. Either way, thats pure
speculation. What we do have evidence for is that there is a conflict
building between the shadow broker and liara, and that will have to be
resolved.
.

Uh, dude, if you haven't been following up on ME2 before the release, the Shadow Broker story arc will be in a DLC pack for ME2 since they wanted to finish Liara's comic book first.

[scorpiosblood]

any one who tock miranda in to fight the final boss will know from the cut sene shes with shepard and not cerberus

[Annihilator27]

Op where did you get this dark matter idea, and you forgot Kadien, Ashley, and Wrex.

Modifié par annihilator27, 01 juin 2010 - 05:35 .

[RiouHotaru]

Arijharn wrote...


3) The nature of Shepherd's injuries, just how much work the Lazarus Project was. Telling me they miraculously raised me from the dead without explainations is jumping-the-shark to me, especially when in the first game they meticulously explained how GARDIAN lasers worked. What was the condition of shep's body, where was it located? In orbit or on the ground? If it was located on the ground, how could it even exist after going through unshielded, the heat of atmospheric re-entry (and not necessarily at the precise angle to provide the least amount of friction)?

Actually, there's a pretty good explaination for this.  Remember Miranda's log, they went from Celluar reconstruction, to bio-synthetic fusion.  Now, there's an ME novel that'll be released this month, Retribution, where TIM starts experimenting with fusing human with REAPER-TECH.  Suddenly Miranda's remark makes me wonder if there's more than one reason Shepard's eyes glow red if you're a Renegade.  It would also explain Shepard's abilities regardless of class, these are experimental/prototype upgrades being used.  I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Shepard is immune to Indoctrination in ME3.

[nhsk]

No real story other than shoot stuff and to many lame romances.

[Sid Shepard]

As for the debts you owe (various people youve pissed off), and the debts of others (helping the rachni/geth,etc), it is most likely time to "collect" in ME3.

Hopefully bioware will listen to the feedback they recieved on ME2 and bring back the characters players like the most. Tali and Gaurus I am sure will be back in ME3, becuase theyve been here since ME1, People really like Thane, so he might be back, and people want Liara back. Those are the only ones im extremely positve about. (I know there are others but this is just what seems to be the case, for right now.) What id really like is to be able to choose what people you have in your team, not just your squad, that would be badass.

As for me, I really hope to be able to go to earth. Although if you do, it might just be right after Harbingers fries the U.S. with a gigantic laser beam; and you have to fight him off. I also hope we get to explore other planets that look cool and have a neet bio, like Trident or explore more of Pragia, stuff like that.

As for the citadel, zakera ward will probably be taken away and well be given just a bathroom to explore, with a security guard standing outside shaking you down every time you need to take a massively effective crap.

Other side choices you made throughout ME2 will shouw up in ME3 like the one where you have to choose between blowing up the factory or the colony.

I so hope to God you wont have to redownload the cerberus network, but you probably will since EA likes money and knows your weakness for awesome looking dlc.

I didnt like the mountain of gear I had to deal with in ME1 but I also didnt like having to choose between like 3 dfferent guns or 5 sets of armor in ME2. They should compromise this issue in ME3.
Dont get me started on planet scan. I have mixed feelings on it.

I really dont see how you would be fighting geth in ME3 but it could be possible.

I want more missions actually pertaining to killing the reapers and less pertaing to your squad. There were like six missions that had to do with the collectors and whatnot but like a possible 22 (i believe) that had to do with "building your team."

Major choices might look somehting like this.
Destroy cerberus and Illusive Man without a thank you from the galaxy or let the illusive man do something really bad and he gives you a bunch of credits only to have half the galaxy pissed at you. Decide between human or alien lives. Destroy the council once and for all or have the council give you a status which is otherwise useless since you can just shoot people in the face to get what you want.

Ending choices might be this.
Destroy yourself, ton of people, and Reapers in the process(ends justify the means)
Join the reapers and go on to conquer other galaxies (most likely their plan from the start)
Destroy the galaxy before the reapers get the chance to (mainly for the lulz, but could be possible none the less)
Or some really obscure choice like opening a mysterious box or going through some wormhole.

Wilbertfrog wrote...
Which leads me on to my next point. I think it's fair to say that the nature of the suicide mission outcome didn't really have any effect in ME2. What I mean is, there was no real incentive (besides an achievement) to go through all the trouble to make sure your buddies turned out OK, or any negative impact if you managed to kill most of them off. The ability to save/let your crew die in ME2 was pointless. It had no repercussions at all. 

I agree. And even if it did have reprecussions in the third game it might only show up as the characters or their families thanking you for keeping them alive. Or if they died their families scold you. And even more likely it would only matter if you keep ALL of them alive or ALL of them die, because thats how you get the achievement; all or none.

Having made several playthroughs on ME1 and ME2 now, if nothing else there is one thing I am certain of; dont make basic or disengenuous assertions. See what happened Al-Jilani? But seriously, most of the time people post their predictions on an upcoming book/movie/game, they are either quite obvious, misinformed or are utterly incoherent with the series. An example would be a topic on the Illusive Man. Ill see questions or comments like this; Maybe hes working with the reapers. Or, look at his eyes, dont they look like reapers? Instead ask questions that dont fist come to mind like; Could there be more than one Illusive Man, or could he be a decoy?

Modifié par Sid Shepard, 29 juin 2010 - 02:52 .

[santaclausemoreau]

God I hope me3 is more to do with the payoff of already making Friends rather than just making it another "build your squad and fight an impossible force" mission again. How epic would that be if the reapers somehow get out of dark space, try to take down earth first, and then, when all hope seems lost, krogan, rachni, quarians, turians, etc. Come in last second to save the day?

[The Big Nothing]

Mass Effect 3 will easily be about gathering an army to combat the Reapers. That means:



- Convincing the Council that the Reapers exist

- Settling the dispute between the Quarians and the Geth

- Uniting the Krogan clans



Ultimately, if things go well, you will have the Council, Alliance, Cerberus, Geth, Quarians, Krogans, and Rachni. My prediction is that they will fight the fleet of Reapers, while Shepard and his squad do some specific task.

[pprrff]

Average Gatsby wrote...

Alright. This is long. Sorry.

I've played through this game 3 times now: 1 non-imported maleshep, paragon, mordin and some of the crew died, 1 imported femshep renegade, no deaths, 1 imported maleshep paragon, no deaths.

I've spent a ridiculous amount of time with this game, and with many other bioware games. And I've started to notice patterns and styles that the writers enjoy. And now that my playing has finally slowed down, I've been analysizing my experience and come up with a few points. So without further blah blah, here it goes:

I. First Things

1. The Fundemental Principle of Mass Effect: The more things change, the more things stay the same.
     For all the choices presented in ME, there reallly isn't much a player can do to substantially change the plot. You are presented with this truth the moment you meet Miranda, who says you can stay on the station and die, or come with her. There is a technical choice, but there isn't a real choice. ME gives you the freedom to choose within a frame that can never be broken. Its great, I love it (obviously), but don't fool yourself into thinking that three will have any sort of sandbox elements, or that the world will fundementally change based on your actions in ME2.
     Case: Saving or Killing the council. When you play both versions, you realize, whether the council was saved or not, the result is the same: Humanity cannot confront the collector threat, and the universe has forgotten the reaper menace. You have a different experience with aliens, different reactions, but the core plot is no different.

2. ME2 is the middle point in an old story
    Its so obvious, but it needs to be repeated over and over. This is the middle game, the mid point in the story, the part of every great trilogy that is really the make or break point. What makes Mass Effect so strong is not its new-ness, although that is very good, but its ability to tell an old story very well. Mass Effect owes so much of its success in that it takes principles laid down in epics like Lord of the Rings and Star Wars and presents them in a very modern world.
     The midpoint is when the real cast, the really important characters, are both introduced and cemented into the story. Take star wars. In empire, we meet the emperor, yoda, and lando, all pivotal characters, yet they weren't even hinted at by the first film. Old characters are made stronger, their backstories and personal problems pushed the forefront, like Obi-Wan's deception of Luke. So all of you terrified that characters as insanely developed as Tali or Garrus won't be coming back, quit shivering in fear. They'll not just be squadmates; they'll be so much more. More on that later.

3. ME enjoys the apparent threat/deeper threat motif
    In ME, and most other bioware games, there is a motif of an apparent threat and deeper threat. ME1 was geth/saren (apparent), reapers (deeper). ME2 also sort of has that going on with collectors/reapers, but it is actually more of setting up the apparent threat before the reveal of the deeper threat in ME3. More on that later, but for now keep it in mind.

II. Characters, Characters, Characters:

1. Tali- BOOM starting with a controversial one. I don't know if there is a character that gets more nerd love than Tali, but its for a good reason; she's the most developed character in ME2. Her backstory is at once the most personal and also the most insightful into the ME universe. It tackles father/daughter relationships, politics of a civilization, the importance of names and heritage, betrayl. I could go on. The point is, her story, even if not her physical body, is coming back.
      a) If she lived, she's a squadmate. This one is crazy obvious. Her name is Tali vas Normandy. Her flotilla ship is now the Normandy. She is tied to shepard through her name. I can't think of a way Bioware could be more obvious she is coming back as a squadmate. The romance option is icing on the cake for her fans, but for plot purposes, her backstory and her name signal the significance she and the quarians will be in ME3
       Even if she died, the story elements started in ME2 will continue in ME3. Think about everything that went on in her personal mission. Its revealed that the quarians have reached a point politically where they are going to make a decision on the future of their race, and it comes down to the three Admirals. Anyone notice how "Morrigan" and "Logain" were two of the Admirals. No chance bioware would bring in those fantastic voice actors just to waste their talent on interesting, but pointless side characters. The quarians are going to have a civil war, and it will be because of Tali and her father's work. Having Tali will just make that experience all the more epic and richer for the careful player, but not having her will still present the same core plot.
      c) Bioware loves Tali, and tali-like characters. Go back and play BGII and see if any of the female characters remind you of her. Tali is even on the cover of ME: Ascension. Could bioware be in anymore love with a character? So quit worrying. She's going to be with you the whole way if you want her to. Lock this one down.

2. Garrus- Garrus in ME2 is not Garrus from ME1 because of what happens to him. He will also be in ME3 and as a squadmate, as its clear bioware loves his type of character as well. Garrus becomes a very tragic, weathered, damaged character because of the events of ME2, and its pretty clear what is going to happen.
      a) Garrus will probably die in ME3. The near death he faced on Omega was only a temporary reprive. Look how Sidonis and the events on Omega shattered him to his core. As even another hint he won't make it, if he is chosen to be squad leader in the suicide run, he's shot again. Very clear foreshadowing that Garrus' life is in danger. Garrus is such a fantastic character because he is hanging on to life out of duty, out of knowledge that he knows he has some role to play in saving the Galaxy from extinction. But at the end, Garrus will not survive the fight. It'll be glorious, but it is inevitable. (For more evidence, watch the romance scene. It's very telling).
       If Garrus died: this is a very interesting proposition. Because while I think it may be possible, I don't know how Bioware could be any more obvious they don't want him to die. Someone will have to confirm the ability to kill Garrus without getting the complete death ending because so far, I haven't seen it done. But lets say it did happen: Garrus likely won't have the development he did in ME2, simply because his death is coming, however awesome it's going to be. So the small extras will be cut, and the player will miss out on the experience of having him. But I have a feeling that, like ME1 where you could not even recruit him, the game will most likely assume he is alive. More on this when I talk import features. Locked down.

3. Miranda: Also kind of a no brainer on if she is coming back. She was in ME Galaxy, which nobody played, but there you have it. She is Cerberus, and bioware did its best to make sure you didn't screw up and kill her.
      a) Miranda will represent another central conflict of ME3: Cerberus VS the Alliance. The tensions are certainly present throughout the story, and will be exacerbated by the fact that Ashley/Kaiden will be returning to the Normandy as a squadmate. Like any good story, in order to make a huge conflict become real, the writer must personalize it. Therefore the conflict between Cerberus and the Alliance will be manifested onboard the Normandy with Miranda and Ashley/Kaiden. Locked down.

4. Jacob: Kind of a tossup if he's coming back. He's not quite as developed as some of the other characters, but more developed than how developed the ME1 characters were in that game. While he expressed misgivings about cerberus, by the end of ME2 he's very loyal to shepard and has a better opinion of cerberus. More likely than not a return as a squadmate.
      a) Jacob could be the middle ground in the fight between Cerberus and the Alliance. His loyalty is to shepard, and I have little doubt he will become an even closer friend/companion in ME3. He stands with Shepard. 75% he comes back.

5. Jack: This character will be the most influenced by how you treated her in ME2.
    a) I have no doubt that ME3 will borrow from DA:O with Jack. Depending on how she was treated in ME2, with kindness and understanding or with harshness and indifference will have a signficant role on her character development. Think hardening from DA:O with Leliana and Alistar. Same principle here. Very likely she will be back as a squadmate since she was so hard to kill on the suicide mission, and her backstory was so rich with conflict and personal development. 90% she comes back

6. Thane: Depends hugely on when the events of the next game take place, but if it corresponds to what I suspect, (more later), he will be in the game. Will he live? Who knows.
     a) Not many clues I can get from thane on what he will be like in the next game.One thing he has going for him is that he was so genuinely interesting and bioware spent a lot of time developing a personal connection to him through the trial with his son. Its the uniqueness of his race, story, and demeanor that makes him a likely candidate for ME3. He may be like Garrus and also die, but it will probably be more tragic than epic. Garrus is going to go out in a blaze of glory; Thane is going to die after achieving some sort of peace. Perhaps in the epilogue after the story is concluded. 75% chance.

7. Grunt: Grunt was fun, but he won't be back. His backstory was more about the insight into krogan life and krogan culture than about grunt personally. Grunt's story was about shepard developing respect with the krogans, which will be important for the plot of ME3, but I don't think theres much evidence for Grunt coming back. The Krogan people seem to want him too much. Then again, shepard is his battlemaster. I could be wrong. 50/50 chance

8. Samara/Morinth: I'm including both of these characters together because of the obvious replacabiltiy of each. Very little chance either is coming back. Samara was only loyal for that specific quest and states that many times, whereas Morinth was around for the ride but has no real loyalty to shepard other than that she finds him interesting. Also, Liara has a pretty good chance of coming back. 10% either one returns.

9. Legion: He will be in ME3 in a big way, no matter what happened in ME2. Even if he was turned over to Cerberus, he will appear. Even if he died, keep in mind that Geth are all geth as he explains.
     a) The geth haven't been dragged around for 2 games just to be forgotten in 3. Legion doesn't present you with such a fundementally challenging question as genocide or brainwashing just to spice things up. The geth legion belongs to will have a big role in me3.
      Whether you destroyed or brainwashed the geth, the heritic geth will be mostly the past and the "legion geth" will be the major players in ME3. It goes back to the fundemental principle. Same result, different paths.
     c) There is a high likelyhood that the Tali/Legion conflict scene is foreshadowing a major conflict in ME3. No prediction on whether legion will be apart of the squad.

10. Zaeed/Any additional DLC character. I am very sad to say almost no chance of these returning. With no dialogue trees, no significant recruitment quest, and no real character developing/changing events, theres not much chance we can expect them to be any more than a background character in ME3. On a personal note, this makes me very sad as Zaeed is, in fact, my favorite ME2 character. I listened to all of his dialogue on the ship and I think he has so much potential. But DLC is DLC. 2%

11. Mordin: He's hilarious, he's got a fascinating backstory and a very compelling quest. However, he's an old man. Expect him to be on the ship, but not a squadmate.

12. New Characters
     a) So far, I've presented 6 high likelyhood characters who will be squadmates. That seems like a pretty fair number to include for the next game as squadmates, and yet it gives the designers plenty of room to add more. I have no doubt that a few will be background chacters from ME2.
      Cpt. Bailey, from c-sec, is coming aboard the Normandy. Not only did they pick a high-profile voice actor and yet give him a relatively small part, which leaves plenty of room for the expansion of that character, but the Illusive Man also mentions in one of his post mission reports that he intends to recruit Bailey. And when one thinks of the kind of guy Bailey was, is he the kind of person who would just sign up, or would he say he'd only want to work if he was with Shepard.
     c) Expect another quarian. Impossible to tell who. Could be an admiral, but I doubt it. More likely Kal-Reegar, or most likely Veetor or a character we haven't met yet. This character could be an optional character that only appears if Tali didn't make it through the first game.
     d) ME3 is going to be epic. An epic game needs an epic cast. I don't think its unreasonable to expect 12 squadmates, especially if a possible new gameplay feature (more on that later) will be the ability to have 3 squadmates instead of 2.

13. Ashley/Kaiden: I think its almost a for sure conclusion that they are coming aboard the normandy again. This is mainly covered in my Miranda section, but I'll reiterate: The Virmire survivor represents the Alliance in the Cerberus VS Alliance conflict, making the conflict personal. Not much else to say, because the devs have already spoken much towards it.

14. Liara: I'm still developing this one. Will update soon.

15. A note on ME2's possible endings.
      So many people seem to be in a certain boat: That you want everyone to live through the suicide mission, and that you are confused as to how in the world bioware will reconcile all of the possible permutations of people dying. Calm yourself. I shall tell you.
      The final mission is designed, with every conceivable help in place, except spoon feeding or forcing the player, to have every squad member live. First, look at how they suggest people you pick for what role in the final mission. Read the descriptions of the characters. Its not rocket science. In fact, its possible to have no one die and only do a few of the loyalty missions.
     Have you walked around your ship after the final mission and some crew members died. Its maddening. It drove me crazy, so crazy that I couldn't play anymore. I couldn't stand not seeing Kelly telling me I had mail, or Mordin giving me sex advice. I know I'm not the only one. This is totally intentional. Bioware doesn't want anyone to die because of what it wants to do in the next game. They want you to go back and make a successful ending. Thats why they have the ME2 import, where you can start at 30 and blaze through the game. Everyone is supposed to live.
     Expect more and less importation in ME3. On the one hand, certain actions will have great impact. However, they will force things down your throat, and that will very likely be certain squadmates living. Always keep in mind that no matter what happened with Garrus in ME1, you were old friends by ME2. It will be the same principle in ME3. Garrus Lived. Tali Lived. Miranda Lived.
    Some have said "well why didn't they just make them invincible if they weren't expendable". It goes back to my insistance that your gaming experience will be maddening without them. They aren't going to force you until ME3. You may say that infringes on your creative gaming expirence, but I would counter with this; would Bioware throw out these characters just because a minority (and it will be a minority by the time ME3 starts coming around and everyone cracks open ME2 to get the good ending) want some more freedom (which the game has never been about), or will they bring back their proven successful characters. Look at Dragon Age Origins Awakening. Alistar is alive whether you like it or not. They will force you, don't doubt it.

*********

III. Plot

1. Its war. Everywhere.
    ME3 isn't going to just be about war with the reapers. It's going to be about the galaxy falling apart with conflict as the Reapers approach. Here are two of the main conflicts hinted at during ME2, which must be resolved, or at least attempted, before the reapers hit
    a) Cerberus VS Alliance: The Illusive man, no matter what ending you decided to pick in ME2, is going to get his hands on some Reaper tech, and he will use it to make Cerberus a competitor to the Alliance. The significance of your choice to either destroy or "clean" the collector base will still result in Cerberus using Reaper tech. It may change certain elements of the story, but it'll sort of be like letting the council live or die: It didn't really matter. See my fundemental thesis.
     Quarian vs Quarian vs Geth: Remember Tali's side mission, how it is clear there are two main factions in quarian society, pro and anti war, and one splinter group, pro-enslavement. That will come to full force in ME3. And since these are "action" rpgs, I doubt the anti war group is going to have much clout, but they will be a factor. Here's what I see happening: "Logain" wants war, and he fills the council seat with another pro-war admiral. Xen aka "Morrigan" is going to take her splinter group off from the rest of the flotilla where she will round up some geth, possibly "good" geth to futher set fire on the situation and let loose a virus that will make them loyal to her quarian band. Shepard's job will be to either diffuse the situation or to pick a side and run with it. I see this point in the game arriving at some real divergence. Legion and his geth will no doubt play a role, likely a side you can join with or destroy. By the end of ME3, this whole lingering conflict will be settled.
     c) Sub Conflict- Liara VS Shadow Broker. They both will have a significant role to play, obviously from the previous two games, and it is likely that the Shadow Broker will be revealed. What will he be is anyone's guess, but since everyone suspects it's an organization, its probably NOT that. I'm thinking its one person, but its more of a title thats passed from owner to owner. Or its an AI. Either way, thats pure speculation. What we do have evidence for is that there is a conflict building between the shadow broker and liara, and that will have to be resolved.

2. Uniting a galaxy:
    a) Shepard and Cerberus know the reapers are coming, but no one else knows or cares. Its going to be Shepards job to go around, not building a team like in ME2 but building an army, like in pretty much any epic. Is it obvious? Perhaps. Cliched? Maybe. But its pretty clear that this is a story that people love, and bioware's story isn't about doing new things, its about doing proven things very well. So likely, the Asari will be scattered and just want to sit around and talk it out, the Turians won't trust the humans, the Krogan will want to roar, visit the female clans, and fight each other instead of the reapers, and the salarians will be very salarian and just make jokes and sing. I can't say I know any details as to what these missions will entail, but I think the basic structure is there.

3. Whats up with those Reapers just floating towards the Milky Way?
    a) This is where things get hazy. Pretty much everything here I have very little evidence for, but based on the last 15 seconds and a few convos, here we go: The Reapers are connected to dark matter in some way. I have a feeling that this dark matter will turn out to literally be an interdimensional force of evil, rather than just a physics term. It also seems very plausible that the sun on haestrom is going to be the vessel for the reapers return. A wormhole or something of that nature. I could definitely see a significant plot element being an attempt to stop what is happening on Haestrom but failing. The ultimate climax could be not a fight between the reapers and the galaxy, which may be happening in the background, but between Shepard and ending the power of the Dark Matter force. No clue on how that would happen. However, this would fit very well with the apparent threat/ actual threat thesis.

4. The End
    a) Pure speculation. However, i think we will finally be rewarded and truly have different endings instead of the same ending/different path. I'm thinking not a copy of but similar to the end of DA:O, except cinematic of course. If you wanted Tali, you get her. If you didn't, you don't. You may be a council member, you may be a merc. But I think at the end of the tale all of our choices will finally matter.

I think I will have to disagree with several of your prediction regarding character.
1) Grunt will be back. He may not be central to any plot, but keep in mind that he is the only Krogan on you team, I think it is almost a must to have your team consist of (Turian, Krogan, Asari, Quarian and human). Not to mention that he is committed to Shepard and call him/her Battle Master.  Same thing will Jacob, if you keep the Normandy SR-2, you pretty much have to take all the cerbrus crew, miranda and Jacob included.

2) Both Thane and Jack will not return as squad mate. You think that Garrus is written to die, but I think Thane is also. I mean he has a terminal illness, he is on a redemption trip before his death to atone, and he stated pretty much that the collector is his last mission. On top of that, his only regret in life was his son, and if you do his loyalty mission, you can take care of that for him so he can die in peace.

I can't really elaborate why Jack will not be back, just a gut feeling.

3) I don't think Garrus will die in ME3. If Bioware were to kill anyone off, it won't be him or Tali. No offense to Garrus/Tali fans, but their importance to the plot is negligible. Killing them off will not have any dramatic effect. 

So here is what I think will happen:

Returning character: (*character central to plot)
Ash/Kaidan*
Liara*
Miranda*
Legion*
Grunt
Jacob
Tali
Garrus

Plot Wise

Like you said, you will be preparing against Reapers. The main quest line involves you investigate weird occurences throughout the Galaxy, like stations disappearing or strange astronomical events. You will actually get these quest from both Alliance and Cerbrus. Each will ask you to pretty much the same thing but will slightly different outcome/flavor. Like Alliance will ask you to do something straight forward like gather evidence on Planet A, while cerbrus will send you the exact same quest, but you have to sabotage or steal something for Cerbrus.

Elements to these quests could be:
*Genophage/Krogan,
*Quarian/Geth conflict
*Dark Energy
*Advancing humanities standing/Advancing human dominance
*Recruit alien allies(turian) if you saved the council / Quash alien rebellion if you let the council die.

You maybe able to play for both alliance and cerbrus at first, but eventually you will have to choose one and destroy the other.

*Final showdown between alliance and cerbrus

I personally don't think that you will defeat the Reaper fleet. It's far more likely that you goal is to prevent them from reaching the galaxy somehow. 

*Final battle against the Reaper.

Here is where I think Bioware will pull another Dragon Age and force Shep to either sacrifice himself or another squad, probably going to be Ash/Kaidan/Miranda/Liara. Here is where the Rachni will come into play. If you saved the queen, then you can avoid sacrificing anyone.

The final cut scene will be the Reaper fleet still left in dark space, plotting a new way of attacking the galaxy.

Modifié par pprrff, 29 juin 2010 - 04:54 .

[santaclausemoreau]

I have a feeling that even if you end up just turning away the reaper fleet, you still get to kill Harbinger. seriously, that would suck if i didn't get to kill him

[Trenrade]

1. Upload a virus,

2. disable reapers

3. ???

4. PROFIT!

Modifié par Trenrade, 29 juin 2010 - 06:10 .

[santaclausemoreau]

idk. a virus seems very lazy. it doesn't really have a buildup or anything to it

[DeckardWasAReplicant]

Wouldnt it be funny if at the end of ME3 you wake up on edan prime after the becon went off only to find all 3 games were a dream? Lol

[The Grey Ranger]

DeckardWasAReplicant wrote...

Wouldnt it be funny if at the end of ME3 you wake up on edan prime after the becon went off only to find all 3 games were a dream? Lol

Let me guess your Shepard is named Dorthy.

[Burdokva]

I expect Miranda to become an unwilling traitor if you destroyed the Collector base and left Cerberus at the end of Mass Effect 2. The Illusive Man took custody of her sister, or at least arranged her reallocation at the end of Miranda's loyalty mission, and is the only one that knows who and where she is. Leverage against Miranda; plus the fact that she's nigh-invincible in Mass effect 2, I expect that she'll have a big role in the final chapter.



Hopefully, Ashley/Kaidan will make a comeback and be the opposite to Miranda, in the sense that they'll support the Alliance dearly. Especially if you cheated.



Reapers will turn out to be the lesser threat at the very end. I don't see it any other way, since BioWare want to continue Mass Effect as a franchise. You have to raise the stakes.

[awpdevil]

I foresee Al Gore being recreated by cerberus to spread the word of galactic dark energy pollution. The reapers will fall to his foul mono tone voice, and checks and balances will be made on the use of mass effect fields to quell the dark energy build up.



On a serious note though, if they don't go with a dragon age like setup I will be massively surprised.

I Also highly agree with the comment made by the OP about there being choice with no real change, which is insanely aggravating.

[Ascension2793]

Great post, i really enjoyed the speculation, but is it possible that the only people comming back to ME3 are the ones that you've saved from the previous games, im not sure what they will do with Shepard if he died,But like some have already said you may be able to choose from team mates in past games, if everyone died possible it still leaves Liara, Kaiden/Ashley, Joker and Edi. No One wants Shepard gone so if they bring him back you have enough for a team (hopefully this time they can tell you how they did it)

Maybe even a few people from the books could make appearances as team mates, Anderson, Paul Grayson, Kahlee Sanders,Gillian

[The Illusive Reaper]

Posted that in its own thread, but I realize it's a ME3 "prediction" and this thread does cover reapers and Dark matter, so, regarding those two topics, I have one possible scenario in head that would be a nice twist:

- the Reapers come back every 50000y to keep the dark matter build up in check (or else the Milky Way would go
bye-bye).

- to sustain themselves and evolve, they need organic minds (just '"maintenance"/lack of variety would doom them in the long run)

- dark matter build up issues have been artificially created, and any species with more than 50000y of sapient time
could develop the dark-matter-related technology with massive destruction potential

- above 2 bullets explain the "wipe out / reset" by the Reapers who would then be, indeed "salvation through destruction" since sapients more or less live on as a single piece of software among a multitude within a reaper

- reapers were built by a highly advanced race wanting both immortality and declaring a pre-emptive ban on a technology that almost destroyed them along the whole galaxy

Shepard would then have to find a less radical way to deal with this dark matter issue and then "negotiate" with the Reapers (who could then splinter into "radicals" - no change whatsoever to a time-tested routine - and "revolutionaries"), cue big fight (Citadel species + revolutionaries vs. radicals).

Very likely off-target, but that would be a nice wrap-up...

Modifié par The Illusive Reaper, 09 juillet 2010 - 09:11 .