104 réponses à ce sujet

[screwoffreg]

Honestly losing people is really difficult as the descriptions of each when you select team leaders/tech/escort is pretty blatant. It is like "Legion is great at electronics!" or "Jack is a POWERFUL Biotic!"

[elearon1]

>>Squad members not loyal to your Shepard? Not inspiring enough of a leader.<<



The problem with this is, you're on a mission to save the galaxy - stopping off so one of your party members can get closure with his daddy should not be high on your list of priorities. I did all those missions the first time through because I'm a completionist ... but the second playthrough I'm not going to bother with the crew members I don't feel a strong attachment to. Arguably you're making poor leadership calls doing any of their side missions because that is distracting you from your ultimate purpose, (can you imagine, in our world, a group of commandos leaving their mission to help one of them make up with his girlfriend before moving on?) but I can see Shepard doing this for people he cares about.

[Sonris]

The way I saw it the more party members that die and fewer loyalty missions done (since they do have a link) the less content will be put into my ME2 save for ME3. I loved seeing Wrex in ME2 and thought saving him in ME1 was well worth the effort. Willing to see how everyone will develop in ME3.

[elearon1]

screwoffreg wrote...

Honestly losing people is really difficult as the descriptions of each when you select team leaders/tech/escort is pretty blatant. It is like "Legion is great at electronics!" or "Jack is a POWERFUL Biotic!"

Yeah, I was a bit disappointed by that.  The Bioware interviews made it sound like you'd end up with numerous "lose one or the other" scenarios like you had with Ash and Whatisface in the first game and that no matter what you did people would be sacrificed.  Turns out you can make it all the way through without losing anyone ... to me that seems like a cop-out, sacrificing drama for the happy ending.

[screwoffreg]

Sonris wrote...

The way I saw it the more party members that die and fewer loyalty missions done (since they do have a link) the less content will be put into my ME2 save for ME3. I loved seeing Wrex in ME2 and thought saving him in ME1 was well worth the effort. Willing to see how everyone will develop in ME3.

This also was my consideration.  It is clear some party members WILL leave, Samara being a clear example as she says that after the Collector mission is done she will be a Justicar.  That said, by killing your party members off, as "realistic" as that may seem, you are probably missing out on big chunks of the ME 3 story.  Imagine Tali dying, for example.  Not only is her romance ended, but any help she could've been with the Quarians and Geth issue would be ended.  Mordin dying ends the hopes for the genophage to be cured in the near future...etc etc.

[Naltair]

elearon1 wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Honestly losing people is really difficult as the descriptions of each when you select team leaders/tech/escort is pretty blatant. It is like "Legion is great at electronics!" or "Jack is a POWERFUL Biotic!"

Yeah, I was a bit disappointed by that.  The Bioware interviews made it sound like you'd end up with numerous "lose one or the other" scenarios like you had with Ash and Whatisface in the first game and that no matter what you did people would be sacrificed.  Turns out you can make it all the way through without losing anyone ... to me that seems like a cop-out, sacrificing drama for the happy ending.

It seems obvious but from what I have read, here and other places most people lost party members there first time through or didn't save the crew.  So yeah I think it was just about right.

[RandomPot322]

I know I felt like I failed cause I lost Thane. Not because of my completionist nature, but more of my, I failed as a leader in protecting my men. So from an RP standpoint you should feel like you failed.

[BamBam38]

don't mean to brag but I saved everyone ... I didn't know people died when they were loyal, I just happened to make right choices.



I came to the forum and people said, "this person died" and etc... I felt proud of my accomplishment

[LxLegend]

screwoffreg wrote...

I rescued everyone my first time through, but that is primarily because I am a completionist and did every loyalty quest before hand as well as paying attention to the descriptions of the team leaders. I also was ready, after the Collector kidnappings, to immediately go to the Omega Relay. I really don't have an interest in having any of my party die as there is the strong suggestion that whoever remains is probably your team for ME 3, with maybe one or two additions. I will need everybody I can get.

That's what I did also, I paid attention to all the information on Shep's squad and that made choosing roles easy.  So, from my perspective the OP did in fact fail.   Nothing about Jacob says that he is good at hacking, and nothing about Zaeed says he's a good leader.  Good leaders don't have their men turn on them, (Garrus was betrayed by one person not the whole team).

I don't understand the OP choices at all, Miranda says clear as day, "send a tech expert into the vents" you have two in your squad, Legion and Tali.  She says you need someone whose combat experience demands respect from the others, you have 3 choices the 2 clearest choices being Jacob and Garrus. 

To escort the crew you have a former member of the STG who mocks holding the line and thinks is better to sneak and be discrete.  For the biotic you need someone strong enough hold a huge barrier to protect you from the swarms, the only two people that could really do that would be Jack or Samara/Morinth and Jack doesn't become anything close to stable until you do her loyalty mission. Finally, to hold the line you need a tactician for which there is again 2 clear choices in Garrus and Miranda. 

The game does everything short of scream at you about who belongs where.  So how could you lose people if you are roleplaying a Shepard that wants to succeed?

And then say I lost people but I don't feel like I failed, isn't losing people on this mission one of the requirements of failing?

Modifié par LxLegend, 04 février 2010 - 05:14 .

[ThePasserby]

elearon1 wrote...

>>Squad members not loyal to your Shepard? Not inspiring enough of a leader.

The problem with this is, you're on a mission to save the galaxy - stopping off so one of your party members can get closure with his daddy should not be high on your list of priorities. I did all those missions the first time through because I'm a completionist ... but the second playthrough I'm not going to bother with the crew members I don't feel a strong attachment to. Arguably you're making poor leadership calls doing any of their side missions because that is distracting you from your ultimate purpose, (can you imagine, in our world, a group of commandos leaving their mission to help one of them make up with his girlfriend before moving on?) but I can see Shepard doing this for people he cares about.

A few points:

1) It can be assumed that everyone on board the Normandy knows that there is a good chance that they will not survive the mission. It is almost akin to someone knowing that he has a terminal illness and has only 6 months to live. What would someone in that situation do? Tie up loose ends, probably. Say final goodbyes, perhaps. Most of the squad members' requests for help with their personal issues were made with great reluctance, but also too aware of their impending doom to ignore. These personal issues will have an impact on their performance. And their requests aren't as trivial as you made it out to be.

2) It should not be about having any strong attachment or not. If Shepard does not see the squad member as a necessary part of the team, he should not recruit him (although the game does not progress unless you recruit everyone one of them, except for Zaeed). If Shepard does not feel that he can trust a particular squad member, fire him (yes, the game does not allow you to do that, so we have to roleplay Shepard trusting his team with his life for good reasons). So given that Shepard has surrounded himself with capable and reliable people whom he can trust, there is little reason not to help them resolve their personal issues in return for their help in a mission from which they might never return. Besides, the player has to hop around the Terminus systems to mine planets for resources for those expensive ship upgrades. You can mine planets near the places you have to go to for those missions.

3) More specifically, I was referring to Shepard's ability to hold on to their loyalty. There are 2 occasions in which loyalty can be lost. A Shepard who is not charismatic enough will not be able to resolve the animosities between squad members and will be forced to choose one side against the other. Also, doing the loyalty missions does not automatically gain you loyalty either. You need to be charismatic enough to convince your squad member that the course you've chosen is the right one (saving the workers in the refinery instead of going after Santiago).

Edited for grammar.

Modifié par ThePasserby, 04 février 2010 - 05:45 .

[izmirtheastarach]

If your intent was to have everyone survive and yet they did not, then yes, you failed. Since it is very easy to have everyone survive, either you make a choice to not maximize your chances, or you make stupid choices about the assignments at the end. If you bother to read through the info that is presented to you, it is very obvious who the logical choices were. You are given short Bios that give you the answers. So even if you spent no time getting to know the characters, the choices are very easy to make.



Bioware did not make it difficult to save everyone, and I appreciate that. Why some people had so much trouble with it is baffling to me.

[screwoffreg]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

If your intent was to have everyone survive and yet they did not, then yes, you failed. Since it is very easy to have everyone survive, either you make a choice to not maximize your chances, or you make stupid choices about the assignments at the end. If you bother to read through the info that is presented to you, it is very obvious who the logical choices were. You are given short Bios that give you the answers. So even if you spent no time getting to know the characters, the choices are very easy to make.

Bioware did not make it difficult to save everyone, and I appreciate that. Why some people had so much trouble with it is baffling to me.

The only thing that might catch people off guard is the death of the NPC crew if you take too long to get to the Relay.  Even then, it doesn't take great leaps of logic to think "Well, my crew was just kidnapped...hold up let me go scan a few planets for a few days".

[izmirtheastarach]

screwoffreg wrote...

The only thing that might catch people off guard is the death of the NPC crew if you take too long to get to the Relay.  Even then, it doesn't take great leaps of logic to think "Well, my crew was just kidnapped...hold up let me go scan a few planets for a few days".

If heard legit explanations for that. To me, it comes down to RP vs. non-RP. If you are actually immersed in the world, it seems bizarre to think that you would traipse about the galaxy with no crew. But if you are playing casually, I suppose it wouldn't much matter to you, until you realize that it does.

[screwoffreg]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

The only thing that might catch people off guard is the death of the NPC crew if you take too long to get to the Relay.  Even then, it doesn't take great leaps of logic to think "Well, my crew was just kidnapped...hold up let me go scan a few planets for a few days".

If heard legit explanations for that. To me, it comes down to RP vs. non-RP. If you are actually immersed in the world, it seems bizarre to think that you would traipse about the galaxy with no crew. But if you are playing casually, I suppose it wouldn't much matter to you, until you realize that it does.

Bear in mind at that point EDI is an unlocked AI, meaning she can control everything.  Speaking of that, I loved when Jacob told Tali about the AI as a little jab there.

[izmirtheastarach]

screwoffreg wrote...

Bear in mind at that point EDI is an unlocked AI, meaning she can control everything.  Speaking of that, I loved when Jacob told Tali about the AI as a little jab there.

I couldn't tell if he was being a jerk, or if that was just the writers making a joke.

[screwoffreg]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Bear in mind at that point EDI is an unlocked AI, meaning she can control everything.  Speaking of that, I loved when Jacob told Tali about the AI as a little jab there.

I couldn't tell if he was being a jerk, or if that was just the writers making a joke.

He was being a jerk since Tali kind of blew him off because of his connection to Cerberus.  As much as I like Tali, he did take her down a few notches.

[monkeyisbest]

I AM SO MAD!... i just beat the game for the first time.,....


I DID EVERY MISSION AND DLC MISSION!!!

All loyalty Achvs.... EVERYTHING..

LVL 30 and EVERYTHING.... i got all upgrades for the ship and my crewmates....


MORDIN DIED!!!!

I got to the very end with no casualties..... i beat the reaper thing and then it went to the final cutscene... and as we were running for the ship and i asked joker if everyone was ok ... HE SAID ALL SURVIORS AND STUFF ON BOARD!!!

but then... as i round a corner... it shows mordin dead on the ground with collectors running voer him... WTF HAPPENED!!!!!!... i am so mad....

I DONT GET IT!

What did i do wrong?

[screwoffreg]

monkeyisbest wrote...

I AM SO MAD!... i just beat the game for the first time.,....


I DID EVERY MISSION AND DLC MISSION!!!

All loyalty Achvs.... EVERYTHING..

LVL 30 and EVERYTHING.... i got all upgrades for the ship and my crewmates....


MORDIN DIED!!!!

I got to the very end with no casualties..... i beat the reaper thing and then it went to the final cutscene... and as we were running for the ship and i asked joker if everyone was ok ... HE SAID ALL SURVIORS AND STUFF ON BOARD!!!

but then... as i round a corner... it shows mordin dead on the ground with collectors running voer him... WTF HAPPENED!!!!!!... i am so mad....

I DONT GET IT!

What did i do wrong?

The only thing I can think of is who did you select for your fire teams?

[Nozybidaj]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Bear in mind at that point EDI is an unlocked AI, meaning she can control everything.  Speaking of that, I loved when Jacob told Tali about the AI as a little jab there.

I couldn't tell if he was being a jerk, or if that was just the writers making a joke.

I was mad my Shep didn't have an option to tell him to close his frickin trap.  There's more than a couple of instances where either Jacob or Miranda make off hand comments that Shep should have had an option to respond to.

[screwoffreg]

Nozybidaj wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

screwoffreg wrote...

Bear in mind at that point EDI is an unlocked AI, meaning she can control everything.  Speaking of that, I loved when Jacob told Tali about the AI as a little jab there.

I couldn't tell if he was being a jerk, or if that was just the writers making a joke.

I was mad my Shep didn't have an option to tell him to close his frickin trap.  There's more than a couple of instances where either Jacob or Miranda make off hand comments that Shep should have had an option to respond to.

She was sort of a jerk to them.  I was disappointed in the lack of interaction between romances.  Those are always a hallmark in Bioware games when they fight/talk it out.

[SgTKilmor]

For a suicide mission, loosing a few men certainly wouldn't count as a loss in my eyes.

[monkeyisbest]

no one died until i BEAT the reaper.....



Legion was my infiltrator.... Miranda My second Leader.. Both times..... Samara my Biotic shiled girl... and Zaeed the survior escort..... NO ONE DIED.... Just mordin??? WTF



I used Miranda and Garrus in the final battle.... Miranda fo her booty and Garruss because we had been through so much.....

[GotchaNL]

Taritu wrote...

Well, it varies. Tali died because Zaeed supposedly isn't a good squad leader, and while he's Bioware's character I just don't agree with that. He started the Blue Suns, led men in combat and has more experience in combat than anyone in the group except Samara (who is not a leader). I thought very carefully about who to put in charge of that squad.

Zaeed is a ruthless selfcentered bastard. You've seen it during his loyalty mission. He lets innocents die (if you let him) in order to reach his goals. I didn't think for one second to make him a squad leader with that attitude.
If he was a good leader then he would not have lost the loyalty of his men. Also, being experienced in combat doesn't equal good leadership.
I wouldn't trust him enough to take out the garbage.

[darthdrake201]

I purposely killed off Jacob.