104 réponses à ce sujet

[DageMan]

I really don't care. If someone dies on a particular play through then thats just the way that particular story went, no big deal.

[ThePasserby]

monkeyisbest wrote...

no one died until i BEAT the reaper.....

Legion was my infiltrator.... Miranda My second Leader.. Both times..... Samara my Biotic shiled girl... and Zaeed the survior escort..... NO ONE DIED.... Just mordin??? WTF

I used Miranda and Garrus in the final battle.... Miranda fo her booty and Garruss because we had been through so much.....

In that final dialogue before you fight the reaper, did you say "I'll need someone to hold the line" or "We'd better hurry then."? I'm not sure if this makes any difference, though.

[GotchaNL]

monkeyisbest wrote...
I used Miranda and Garrus in the final battle.... Miranda fo her booty and Garruss because we had been through so much.....

That might be why Mordin died. Miranda and Garrus are both leaders. If you take them with you then there aren't enough leader types where they're holding the line. I have no idea if this is really the case, but there's an interesting thread about it.

[GotchaNL]

ThePasserby wrote...
In that final dialogue before you fight the reaper, did you say "I'll need someone to hold the line" or "We'd better hurry then."? I'm not sure if this makes any difference, though.

It doesn't make a difference. I've played the ending two times, using both of these options. My whole team remained alive.

[Skilled Seeker]

I'm hoping there will be new squad members to fill the gaps for those that died in ME2. But if you get all your crew out alive then you don't get access to them. Otherwise I can see myself replaying the final mission so that I don't miss out on content since I lost 2 of my team.

[maxulic]

fogofeternity wrote...

I never felt like I was being blatantly reckless, or that the choices were particularly illogical. There was clearly debate about the best person to go through the vents (Jacob volunteered, Miranda's argument for a techie wasn't entirely conclusive). Zaeed has been a mercenary leader in the past, so reasonable for him to head up a distraction team. Both characters were loyal. But they still died.

You probably didn't fail playing the game but you clearly failed as a leader... It is pure logical that when Miranda says you need a tech to get through the vents she's right. Not sending a tech in is a mistake that you - as a leader - made.

Modifié par maxulic, 04 février 2010 - 06:28 .

[Count_Zero_Interrupt]

My main complaint is that it seemed too easy to keep everyone alive. The only main character I lost was Jack, which I expected since she was the only one who wasn't loyal (didn't care either, as she was also one of my least favorite characters). I also lost half my crew (including two of my favorite NPCs, Ken and Gabby), which made me sad.

I took Garrus and Tali with me throughout the final mission (just like old times), and almost freaked out when Tali nearly fell off the platform, and when they were both lying under the debris.

I liked all the characters, and wanted them to survive, but at the same time I feel kinda cheated that they did. It sort of detracts from how epic and impossible the final battle is supposed to be. It would have been more satisfying, over all, if the thrill of victory was tempered with a little more tragedy. The second part of a trilogy is never supposed to have a happy ending.

I also felt the whole ending was a little weak, cinematically. Some characters didn't say anything the entire sequence, and you didn't see them except for when shephard makes a little speech or is choosing people for roles. It would have been nice to have some quick cuts of all the characters fighting side by side, narrowly escaping death, even just talking to each other and Shep more over the radio, to make the final battle feel more like a real, intense final battle.

[Jijan Dax]

Well I actually went into battle fully expecting some of my team to die (or dying myself) and was surprised to find out that on the very first playthrough I saved everyone (including Mordin!!)



Maybe it's not very obvious to everyone, but to me the choices were though, but somewhat logical. I took Tali as my tech specialist (even though I was mortally afraid she wouldn't make it), Samara to raise the biotic shield (Jack has the power, but in my opinion not the wisdom ... but I guess the game lets her live too, didn't know that) and so on.



As for ME3, from a developers point of view the whole 'team members dying' thingie is quite difficult to put into a game. Let's say the developers build an enormous amount of content for Tali in ME3 ... but she died in ME2 ... then all that work would be for naught and the content wouldn't be available. The concequences in-game are severe. Even though that would be a LOT of fun (not her dying, but decisions affecting the game and such) I don't see it happening, at least not in a very thorough capacity... which makes me somewhat sad

[DaddyFoxDerek]

I lost Jack....and it was still an amazing experience. Actually the best video game ending ever. I replayed the game and saved everyone for the achievement, but when I import into ME3 it will be the first playthrough where I lost Jack. I just wouldn't feel right importing another save for my first playthrough--kinda like how when I watch videos of someone else's playthrough I'm like "That's not Shepard!"

[talon4000]

losing some people definitely doesn't mean you failed, I wanted the story to go with my first shepard saving his squad, he ended up losing his crew, and the second shepard I wanted to lose some people.

[Count_Zero_Interrupt]

Jijan Dax wrote...

As for ME3, from a developers point of view the whole 'team members dying' thingie is quite difficult to put into a game. Let's say the developers build an enormous amount of content for Tali in ME3 ... but she died in ME2 ... then all that work would be for naught and the content wouldn't be available. The concequences in-game are severe. Even though that would be a LOT of fun (not her dying, but decisions affecting the game and such) I don't see it happening, at least not in a very thorough capacity... which makes me somewhat sad

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of too. Simply the fact that it's possible for every character in ME2 to die means their roles are going to be necessarily limited in ME3. You may be able to pick some up as party members, but major plot points aren't going to hinge on their presence (particularly dissapointing because I would have liked to see my Tali/Shepard romance developed further). Unless Bioware is actually willing to develope HUGE amounts of content that may possibly go completely unseen, which doesn't seem likely.

[fogofeternity]

LxLegend wrote...

I don't understand the OP choices at all, Miranda says clear as day, "send a tech expert into the vents" you have two in your squad, Legion and Tali.  She says you need someone whose combat experience demands respect from the others, you have 3 choices the 2 clearest choices being Jacob and Garrus.  

It's very clear in hindsight. In the context of the game - Miranda's just another character. At no point elsewhere did I take what she said as gospel truth. Nor do you know the full extent of the situation - it may just as easily have ended up that the lone infiltrator needed to engage in some combat. Plus, Jacob was the only person who volunteered. So from a roleplaying perspective it's a reasonably logical choice.

Ditto with Zaeed. He's a mercenary who started one of the big three mercenary groups in the galaxy, and since he's clearly been around for about 20 years presumably he's pretty good at survival. Sure, after the event you can focus on the stories about him losing his teammates, but those are the kind of stories you'd expect every merc to tell. If you're telling war stories then "well, we all went in, got the job done, and everyone got out fine" is a little boring. Even if you do take the point that he's been reckless with other people, then it would make more sense that someone else in the team dies; he's clearly good at self preservation but he's the one who dies.

And then say I lost people but I don't feel like I failed, isn't losing people on this mission one of the requirements of failing?

Not from a roleplaying perspective. I didn't fail to experience an exciting and emotional ending. Nor did I go into the scene with any idea that it was possible to get the party through without casualties - as far as I knew when I was playing, the people I chose were always going to die. 

Count_Zero_Interrupt wrote...

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of too. Simply the fact that it's possible for every character in ME2 to die means their roles are going to be necessarily limited in ME3. You may be able to pick some up as party members, but major plot points aren't going to hinge on their presence (particularly dissapointing because I would have liked to see my Tali/Shepard romance developed further). Unless Bioware is actually willing to develope HUGE amounts of content that may possibly go completely unseen, which doesn't seem likely. 

Though to be honest, no party member has ever been necessary for a major plot point (in terms of a major impact on the galaxy as a whole). The closest to actually having a long term impact is actually the one ME1 character who may or may not have survived, given the potential for a united Krogan under Wrex as opposed to a more traditional and fractured race under the alternative if Wrex dies.

I don't buy that it's tough to implement extensive content for a reasonable number of ME2 squad members, as discussed in this thread.

Modifié par fogofeternity, 04 février 2010 - 06:43 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Losing Jack because you made an RP decision about who to support is not a failure. I would not try to argue that it was.



However, making the wrong choices at the end feels to me like the result of just not paying attention. So to me, that is definitely a failure.

[Jimbe2693]

I want some of my team to die, makes it more emotional and not just: "Hey guys lets go blow up the collector base and save the galaxy, then get home in time for a movie"

[fogofeternity]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

However, making the wrong choices at the end feels to me like the result of just not paying attention. So to me, that is definitely a failure.

The comment about failing is mainly in reference to the suggestion that I failed to get the most out of the game (rather than succeeding/failing from Shepard's perspective). Which implies that the best "win" scenario is more valuable than the best roleplay experience. The thread has developed into a wider discussion, but that was the main initial point.

[Arrtis]

Mordin died when i sent him through the tunnels

and zaeed couldnt survive being a distraction

otherwise jacob being escort for crew

and Jack for bio shield both fine.

Miranda and Jack for final fight

*should have sent legion in through tunnels and grunt to distract*

I bet all would have survived then.

[Mox Ruuga]

A man after my own heart, OP.

It's a shame most people just play for that one single outcome, over and over again. The game is about your choices, and how they affect the universe and the future games. For example, I know it's easy to save Wrex in ME1. Do I always get his armor before I head out to Virmire? No. I like the hard choice Shepard can't escape, having to kill a powerful ally and a possible friend, for the sake of the mission. Same thing with the suicide mission in ME2: for some Shepard's I want less than a clean run. Some treat the squad as assets, and sacrifice them. Some like them all, but just can't save everyone.

I'm hoping that both ME1 and ME2 casualties keep getting callbacks in ME3.

[Zandilar]

Kenthen wrote...
Except it's not really the same at all. If you get a shotgun blast to the head from an angry Krogan in whatever random mission the game just cuts out, there's no story to it, it doesn't move on, you just get a game over screen.
If people die on the suicide mission, even if Shepard dies after the boss, then the story still goes on, there's weight to it and it matters.

You have to think a little outside the box here. When a person dies, does the world stop because they died? No, it keeps going on. Likewise, if Shep gets an unlucky shotgun blast to the face and dies, the ME universe would go on without him or her. The thing is, since we're playing Shep, and therefore seeing the world from his or her point of view, we don't get to see what happens next, since that point of view no longer exists. Reloading means we decided we didn't want the ME universe to go on without Shep, which is altering the story/world to suit ourselves. See what I'm getting at?

What I am trying to say, is that using the argument that using the save file to get the ending you want is cheating (or anti-storytelling or anti-role playing), is really quite silly and irrelevant. It's a game and a story, and it's interactive. The save file is just one more tool we have to get an enjoyable story and experience. If you personally feel it's cheating, just don't use the function... But be aware that other people don't think the same way, and making a pronouncement to the effect "all you people who use the save file to save your team are cheats!" is simply rude. Not everyone plays the game the same way, and no one has the right to push their style of play onto anyone else.

[MutantSpleen]

I am not reloading my first play through. That is my real play through, no spoilers. Some bad things happened but you can't rewind life. My Normandy crew got juiced, my precious Kelly (oh I was pissed). Jack and Grunt both died in the mission, two of my favorite team mates.

[Mudzr]

Mordin died in my first time through. He was just lieing on the floor as everyone else left.

I felt that I didn't fail, I did everything right, and I destroy the collectors and the Humanator.

I actually thought it was more emotional that besides everything, I wasn't able to save all of my crew, and I really felt bad looking at my coffin.

As I did the rounds I found myself feel a pang of guilt as I passed through an empty lab.



I did redo it though only because I love mordin and I wanted to see him in the next game, but I didn't feel I did it wrong, I actually felt I did it right.

One time I did screw up was when I put him as leader, but his "Tell them, I held the line" speech was so awesome it was worth it.

[MutantSpleen]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Losing Jack because you made an RP decision about who to support is not a failure. I would not try to argue that it was.

However, making the wrong choices at the end feels to me like the result of just not paying attention. So to me, that is definitely a failure.

How can you know if some choices are wrong though until you make them?

I lost Jack on the distraction team, in my mind she was the best suited for it. Look what she did on Purgatory, she ripped her way through the whole damn ship by herself. Yet she died, and she was loyal, my whole team was loyal. How could that have been predicted?

Grunt's death took me toally by surprise.  I had Jacob do the barrier and when he let it drop at the end, the bugs came in swarmed Grunt and carried him off into the darkness.  Jacob to me seemed like the best choice, since the job was to make a barrier and he is the only character with the barrier power. 

[brgillespie]

Jacob died in my finale. Tali and Legion were my teammates since I liked the fact that I could have them both send out drones on different targets. Jacob volunteered, so Jacob went. Guess we won't be getting loud and spilling drinks on the Citadel.



Garrus was my go-to guy for the leadership positions. After all, he successfully led a team of mercenaries/vigilantes for the years I was gone.



Jack was the biotic. I figured she was this ultra-powered biotic and could easily handle the barrier. At the end, she gets pissed and sends the barrier exploding outwards like a shockwave, clearing away the bugs.



I told the crew to get themselves back to the ship. Mission comes first, figured I needed everyone possible. They died... but at least it was probably death from Collector gunfire as opposed to being liquified.



For holding the line, I took Tali and Legion with me. Again, I dig their drone abilities, plus Legion had the wicked Widow sniper rifle upgrade. I, too, just about fell out of my chair when she sailed over the edge of the platform. Good on saving your girl from certain death, Shepard!



Everyone else survived. Normandy's devoid of crew, but EDI's linked into the ship, so apparently the crew were out of jobs, anyway.



---

From the way the game ended, it strongly implied that whoever's left over from the finale is your crew for the third act. There could be extra opportunities for recruitment, as I imagine Zaeed will jump ship (considering he's just DLC), Samara could leave (oath fulfilled?), Legion heads back to geth space to get the non-heretics mobilized.



Only the writers know.

[DaVanguard]

I felt cheated that garrus died on my first run which i didnt want to happen but loosing zaeed and jack felt like a loss but but to me they were replace able saving all the crew important- the normandy didnt feel the same with half crew

[MutantSpleen]

Jacob is described as a strong biotic, not Jack/Samara powerful but still strong. Plus he has the barrier skill which no one else does. Yet that wimp gets overtaxed and loses the barrier at the end and gets Grunt killed by the bugs grrrr.

[MutantSpleen]

Jacob is described as a strong biotic, not Jack/Samara powerful but still strong. Plus he has the barrier skill which no one else does. Yet that wimp gets overtaxed and loses the barrier at the end and gets Grunt killed by the bugs grrrr.