442 réponses à ce sujet

[michal9o90]

I agree with you Jagri xD

[joeymtl]

I don't understand why people compare Terra Firma to Cerberus. Cerberus IS Terra Firma practically.

Claude Menneau was a candidate for leadership of the Terra Firma party in the 2170s after Inez Simmons resigned due to the Nashan Stellar Dynamics kickback scandal. Menneau had two bodyguards, Pel and Keo, and travelled in his own private vessel with a pilot, Paul Grayson. Menneau was a charismatic figure, but not a particularly likeable man in person. He was leading in the polls by three points ahead of Charles Saracino, when he mysteriously disappeared, along with his vessel and bodyguards.

In fact, the Illusive Man, head of Cerberus, had decided that Saracino was the man he wanted to head Terra Firma. Pel and Paul Grayson were actually Cerberus operatives planted to shadow Menneau and watch for an opportunity. While Menneau was en route to Shanxi, asleep in his cabin, Pel put his plan into action. While Grayson took care of Keo, Pel sneaked into Menneau's cabin and killed him. The ship, along with Keo and Menneau's bodies, was disposed of and Menneau's body was never found. Theories and rumours about his disappearance ran riot for a number of years. In the meantime, Charles Saracino ascended to the party leadership unopposed.
Retrieved from "http://masseffect.wi.../Claude_Menneau"

Cerberus cannot represent humanity because it is inhumane. People who played ME1 should remember.

Modifié par joeymtl, 06 février 2010 - 01:30 .

[zr0iq]

I share Grunts opinion on him.



I fear the Illusive Man because he hides, he does not act like a warrior. I daresay he might be the greater evil than the reapers.

[aeetos21]

Look it comes down to this: Do you support the idea of a human led new world order type galaxy? If you do, then you support cerberus. If you want a more multi-lateral community driven galaxy, then you support the council.



Yelling and screaming on the forums isn't going to change a person's mind - unless you pay them.

[yummysoap]

I'm not about to read 11 pages of this, so I'll just chime in my superior opinion:



The Illusive man may be the only one with the right priorities in mind, but that doesn't stop him or his morally reprehensible establishment from being an evil little c*ntface.

[Lord Jaric]

wako58 wrote...

Lord Jaric wrote...

I have yet to see an explanation is to why n a z i is being censored, even through it can be said anywhere else without it being censored and kids learn about in school.

p.s. we should probably stop the argument being that it is an off topic discussion

Yeah, you're trolling and doing a bad job of it.

no I was simple asking why n a z i is being censored, trigger2kill1 decided to get upset about it, he and someone else start arguing about it, all I want to know is why it is being censored, because to me it doesn't make any sense. 

[Spectre_Shepard]

I absolutely abhorred cerberus. I disliked them in more ways than I can name.



I will hunt TIM down and kill him given the option. No one betrays me or a member of my crew and gets away with it.

[Turin_4]

Cerberus is only tolerable so long as there is a threat posed by the Reapers and their assorted pawns, or another different threat of similar magnitude.



They are absolutely not acceptable, though, if the threat is, "We're getting the short end of the political stick with the Council," not when their methods involve kidnapping, torture, murder, inhumane and unethical experimentation, and all sorts of war crimes throughout the galaxy.



The Illusive Man was right, for example, to allow Shepard & Co. to walk into the Collecter trap on their 'derelict' ship-the alternative involved the galaxy's sapient life being wiped out, and as it turns out involved humanity being turned into the next Collectors as well. But that kind of decision isn't acceptable when the threat is 'loss of political power' at the hands of, say, turians or salarians or asari. It's just not. It's only barely tolerable when the threat is extinction.



It's necessary against the Reapers. It's not necessary against the dang Council, which is precisely what Cerberus was doing all of their business for prior to ME1. And if you disagree, just remember, Cerberus wasn't paying its kidnap victims. It wasn't asking for volunteers when it populated the facility that created Jack, decades before the Reaper threat. They're making others do the sacrificing, bear the burdens. And that's chicken****, which is why Cerberus is ultimately cowardly and untrustworthy...but also necessary when dealing with the Reapers.



As for keeping the Collecter base, every single time someone has tried to control or maintain Reaper technology, it has come back to bite them in the ass. Every time. And of course unless the total Collector forces numbered one big ship and one big base throughout the entire galaxy, taking and holding their headquarters might not actually be possible for very long-and then where is everyone left? The Collectors snatch back their base, along with who knows how many other people and ships. They tweak the Mass Relays to keep us out for awhile, and take what they can, and they're off.

[VanguardtoDestruction]

Either way, I feel Cerberus will be dealt with in ME3. Either you fight them and execute TIM or work with them and eventually take his place as head of the Human Supremacy Movement.

If we succeed in beating the Reapers, the end of ME3 will likely either be Shephard celebrating with the other species on the Citadel, or Shephard presiding in the Illusive mans chair as he watches the construction of a Massive Human Fleet that will subjugate the galaxy under human control.

Hmm...sounds like the two endings to Kotor lol.

Modifié par VanguardtoDestruction, 06 février 2010 - 06:25 .

[medlish]

VanguardtoDestruction wrote...

Either way, I feel Cerberus will be dealt with in ME3. Either you fight them and execute TIM or work with them and eventually take his place as head of the Human Supremacy Movement.

If we succeed in beating the Reapers, the end of ME3 will likely either be Shephard celebrating with the other species on the Citadel, or Shephard presiding in the Illusive mans chair as he watches the construction of a Massive Human Fleet that will subjugate the galaxy under human control.

Hmm...sounds like the two endings to Kotor lol.

I hope it's not like that. That would be way to obvious and boring.

[atheelogos]

KrazyKomrade wrote...

Cerberus has good intentions but terrible methods.
But I just want to get a pair of those sweet blue eyes for myself

Hell yeah!! lol

[mcharj11]

MBirkhofer wrote...

OP, did you actually play ME1?
If all you play is ME2, it's very possible to come to the conclusion the Illusive man has the right idea.
But in 1, its pretty clear they are recklessly endangering lives. As well as clearly have no moral compass in achieving their goals.
Whats the point of saving lives, if you have to murder millions to do it?
They also loose control of many of their experiments in 1. Unleashing rabid Rachni and Thorian are very much just as great a threat.
Think about the Geth/Quarians. Cerberus are playing with dangerous things trying to use them as weapons. Weapons that could very easily turn on their masters. And without any real oversight from governments or protection agency.

In a galaxy that holds multiple billions or trillions, millions dead is an acceptable figure.

[atheelogos]

Jagri wrote...

Survival is all well in good be it why did you not go with Saren's plan to begin with in Mass Effect? Saren wanted to secure our survival with great sacrifice and yes we would have... Well as paste to the Reapers and what remained of us would be Collecters but hay! We survived yea!!! Ends did justified the means.

I mean it just killed off any meaning we may have ever had in the galaxy in the first place but survival!

What would TIM do with a Collecters Base?

1) Didn't have shield or offensive weapon capability so can't slavage anything there. Would think it would attack the Normandy alongside the Collecters Ship if capable.

2) Hall wasn't too advance ether.

3) Ability to produce Biological weapons (Seeker Swarms) is appearent and capable of disabling nervious system of organic life forms. -Not going to be effective against the Reapers- Controllable is debateable.

4) Ability to produce Reapers with large amounts of organic material estimated guess to make one is around half a million lives if not a full million. If they can be controlled is debateable.

5) Now perhaps we can slavage Reaper weapons if the Collecters Base was capable of producing them be it from what we seen of the Human Reaper it wasn't fitted with anything but some odd pulse weapon that took a few discharges just to kill or attempt to kill 3 organic life forms. Thinking weapons may be outfitted in a diffirent location.

The only thing TIM is likely to gain is a upper hand in technology which would only be effective in combating the races of the Galaxy. Likely to use Seeker Swarms to collect enough life to build his own Reapers so all that effort goes to waste. But hay we will harvest alien colonies now.

Ether way this all seems a bad idea.

"Not going to be effective against the Reapers- Controllable is debateable." Why wouldn't it be effective againsit them? You do know that a lot of their foot soldiers are organics right? We could disable a whole army of indoctrinated soldiers. How can you not see the benfit in that?

And to answer number five. That reaper was no where near finished. So of course the weapons were week.

"Ability to produce Reapers with large amounts of organic material
estimated guess to make one is around half a million lives if not a
full million. If they can be controlled is debateable." I don't think he wants to make more.

"Didn't have shield or offensive weapon capability so can't slavage anything there." Thats not the point. The base didn't utilize those functions, but that doesn't mean It wont have the information within to build those things. I mean just look at the collector ship. It was probably built at their the base so info has to be there. Imagine outfitting other Alliance ships with that tech. We could actually stand toe to toe with a reaper ship in combat.

To many people here are short sighted. In reality if your enemy has weaponry thats more advaced  than yours you are at an extreme disadvatage. So what do you do? You try to get a hold of tech so you can study it and advance your own. I mean come on can you see a real world military destroying hardware that can give them an edge? No of course not, because they would confiscate it and study it.

[aauxraydar]

My opinion on cerberus was formed by mass effect 1. I think the only reason the illusive man knows what has to be done is because of how much tongue bathing bioware knew would have to be done to make up of the sheer stupidty of cerberus in ME1. I honestly felt cerberus's plan to help humanity was basically a shotgun apporch. Throw money at whatever looked successful, determined by the number of humans it would kill.
Working with cerberus was almost a deal breaker, just because of how much I vowed to finally destroy them. I got over it but I'm still hurt that they didn't give us an option to ask the illusive man what kind of people he last gave to the collectors to. Also i really wanted an option to demostrate how medigel is used and ask how many people they killed before giving up on understanding how it works.  But that was mostly for fun.

But seriously the reapers knew what happened to soverign because the illusive man gave them human prisoners.
That is canon, any evidence disproving that is a retacon.
(:bandit:this isn't serious:)) Also humanity's rapid expansion was due to humans funneling all incomptance and stupidity into cereberus, anyone who seems foolish is a cerberus spy. How did they do that? because biotics are magic now.

[atheelogos]

mcharj11 wrote...

MBirkhofer wrote...

OP, did you actually play ME1?
If all you play is ME2, it's very possible to come to the conclusion the Illusive man has the right idea.
But in 1, its pretty clear they are recklessly endangering lives. As well as clearly have no moral compass in achieving their goals.
Whats the point of saving lives, if you have to murder millions to do it?
They also loose control of many of their experiments in 1. Unleashing rabid Rachni and Thorian are very much just as great a threat.
Think about the Geth/Quarians. Cerberus are playing with dangerous things trying to use them as weapons. Weapons that could very easily turn on their masters. And without any real oversight from governments or protection agency.

In a galaxy that holds multiple billions or trillions, millions dead is an acceptable figure.

Sad but true

[mcharj11]

Caion wrote...

stuchiu wrote...

5) A lot of his experiments have backfired in horrible horrible ways. Rachni queen could have joined Saren and ****ed over the galaxy. Thorian Creeper actually helped Saren move his way towards the Ilos. And I expect that if he got his hands on the Collector base, he would use the tech to build some kind of human/reaper hybrid. And it's probably going to backfire in his face again as the human-reaper hybrid he creates names himself Kefka and destroys the universe as we know it. 

That's actually the premise of the next Mass Effect novel. Cerberus kidnaps Paul Grayson and implants him with Reaper technology in order to study it. I can't wait to see how that will blow up in his face.

Personally, I do not trust TIM for an instant. During the game I saw him as a resource to be used and discarded while keeping a cautious eye on him in the meantime. Someone like TIM would do ANYTHING to advance his own cause, no matter how many innocents must suffer and die for it. I was only too happy to tell him to shove it when I was finally allowed to.

I believe that TIM believes that he is doing the right thing, but his carelessless in regards to his methods will not see a good end to his endeavors. Give TIM too much power and he could potentially become an even greater threat than the Reapers.

Perhaps the experiment on Grayson is the beginning or testing of project Lazarus, a lot of people seem to be taking Shepards new body for granted, how do we know that he isn't running on reverse engineered
Reaper tech?

Modifié par mcharj11, 07 février 2010 - 02:49 .

[armass]

The guy is a paranoid nutcase. The fact that he's ruthless and power hungry is nothing new but when he says "Cerberus is humanity", that should make even you raise an eyebrow.

Modifié par armass, 07 février 2010 - 03:06 .

[mcharj11]

trigger2kill1 wrote...

Lord Jaric wrote...

did I miss something, when did n a z i become a sware word.

It has been a swear word right after they started killing  MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN 1937. they taught it to me in my history classes. I beg your pardon if you missed those years.

The Soviets killed more than the N a z i s and conducted mass rapes across Europe, The British invented concentration camps and conducted nerve gas experiments on our own troops, the US deliberately poisoned servicemen with radiation during nuclear testing, the Ashken a z i run Israeli government conducted radioactive testing on Sephardic Jews, so i take it all those factions should have their names turned into swear words and prohibited from use?
 
(lol can't even type Ashken a z i properly cos it's got n a z i in it )

Modifié par mcharj11, 07 février 2010 - 03:14 .

[jiggs101]

Tim a.k.a vince mcmahon is not to be trusted if u help him in ME3 u will have no chance.... no chance in hell

[Chuck_Vu]

Goals/intentions are worthless. I've heard children say "I didn't mean it for it to happen" too much to care about ones goals/intentions. It's the action taken and the consequences (good and bad)from that action that matters. Forget Cerebus's goals/intentions. Look at their actions and consequences from those action. Do you really want to trust Cerberus???

[The BS Police]

Hitler new how to get stuff done to and look at what happened.

[Chuck_Vu]

The BS Police wrote...

Hitler new how to get stuff done to and look at what happened.

A bunch of people died when he was invading countries he wasn't welcomed, the rest of Europe turned against him, founded death camps where more people died, picked an ally that would ****** off a neutral country which then got involved in his affairs, lost territory after territory, was reduced to a bunker where he commited suicide, and he is now vilified for the rest of history.   So this is your measure of success???

[IbramSkyheart]

 Bringing Shepard back was possibly Cerberus' best idea to date, but we never find out what kind of experiments had to be conducted in order to achieve the goals of Project Lazarus.  Surely they wouldn't have just thought up something which might work and immediately tried it on Shepard him/herself.  Look at Pragia - countless children used for experimentations so they didn't kill Jack.  Granted, TIM didn't know what was going on, but it still shows what humans/Cerberus is willing to do for the 'good of humanity'.

My problem with Cerberus is that they only care about Humans... well, TIM does anyway.  He's the kind of guy who would sit back and watch every other advanced alien race slaughtered if it meant Humanity would survive.  I'd even go so far as to say he'd recreate what the Collectors were doing by creating his own Reaper using one of the other alien species, such as Asari or Taurian, without blinking an eye.

As soon as you get into the opinion that sacraficing a million to save countless trillions the problem then becomes where does that stop?  When does it stop becoming a necessary sacrafice and start becoming monstrous- a million, a billion... an entire species?  Would genocide be an acceptable sacrafice if it meant no more humans died?

Just my two cents 

Modifié par IbramSkyheart, 07 février 2010 - 03:55 .

[The BS Police]

Chuck_Vu wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

Hitler new how to get stuff done to and look at what happened.

A bunch of people died when he was invading countries he wasn't welcomed, the rest of Europe turned against him, founded death camps where more people died, picked an ally that would ****** off a neutral country which then got involved in his affairs, lost territory after territory, was reduced to a bunker where he commited suicide, and he is now vilified for the rest of history.   So this is your measure of success???

*Facepalm*

You completely missed my point. I was stating the fact that TIM is nothing but a future day ****, but instead he doesn't hate humans due to their diffirences.

Basically, TIM is an interesting character but he has his own evil plans very much like Hitler did which involves putting his race at the top. In no way was I saying Hitler was succesfull, I was just comparing their similar traits.

Modifié par The BS Police, 07 février 2010 - 04:07 .

[Lord Jaric]

jesus, I ask one little question all hell breaks loose