442 réponses à ce sujet

[IbramSkyheart]

Lord Jaric wrote...

jesus, I ask one little question all hell breaks loose

The little questions are always the worst. 

[Spectre_Shepard]

i will destroy cerberus.

[Chuck_Vu]

The BS Police wrote...

Chuck_Vu wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

Hitler new how to get stuff done to and look at what happened.

A bunch of people died when he was invading countries he wasn't welcomed, the rest of Europe turned against him, founded death camps where more people died, picked an ally that would ****** off a neutral country which then got involved in his affairs, lost territory after territory, was reduced to a bunker where he commited suicide, and he is now vilified for the rest of history.   So this is your measure of success???

*Facepalm*

You completely missed my point. I was stating the fact that TIM is nothing but a future day ****, but instead he doesn't hate humans due to their diffirences.

Basically, TIM is an interesting character but he has his own evil plans very much like Hitler did.

I didn't get that you were being sarcastic with your Hitler.  Sarcasm does not do well in text.  I discovered that the hard way.

[Gambit One]

I agree with the concept of "the ends justify the means" completely. I even share that idea in my real self.



However, I believe that Cerberus is in it for themselves. I'd love to save the base, but not for Cerberus. Thats why I destroyed it.

[Arijharn]

I support Cerberus' goals, and I am a full paragon. I also have both ME and ME2 for my ole' Xbox360.



At the end of the day, we never know what big bad threat is next awaiting our species and the council (which I should add is totally unwilling to do anything to help humanity, the new council member) proves beyond reasonable doubt that the council is too afraid, if nothing else due to 'political rammifications,' of its actions.



To paraphrase the awesome Grunt: 'offer an arm for help while arming the other.' I see no reason to stifle ourselves in terms for a degree of 'morality' which changes as much as the current major religious movement because at the end of the day, if someone's life depends on a supersoldier having enough torque strength the hold a hammerhead above the ground to prevent it from crushing a VIP to death, then it is progress that should be made. While I am sad for the experimentations, I'm afraid that they had to be made because no one would volunteer (having said that, experimentations for the sake of experimentations is evil, experimentations that have a basis in scientific rationale and expected result isn't in my mind).



This may make me sound like a renegade and all, but I otherwise believe strongly in making nice with the other species because 'human or alien, we're all just animals' but I don't see why we shouldn't seek to better ourselves and in fact, I think of it as our duty to the future generations.



From what I've seen here, people hate them purely out of a knee-jerk holier-than-thou attitude and that is as valid as me believing they are in some way necessary. But I think holier-than-thou attitude isn't per say going to save someone when Heavy Bone Weave could. Hating Cerberus makes as much sense as cutting off your nose to spite your face I think.

[Default137]

And people still don't want to look at the fact the Alliance has done most of the same things Cerberus did, and has possibly done even worse.



And people still don't want to understand why the Council can't know about the Reapers, because if they did it would be metagaming.



And people....

[Shinigami013]

Cerbus has my vote. They take action

[jerms510]

Kuari999 wrote...

Here's one reason: Cerberus was the reason I lost my squad in Akuze. They can bite me.

this. and the dozen other horrific things I stumbled across in ME1. I wouldn't even bat an eye if I found out that TIM is using the collector base to build the human reaper. would not shock me at all. thats why I had to blow it up.

all this talk of "sacrifice a million to save a trillion" is pretty dramatic, because if you jump on that decision you ignore any of the other possible solutions that may not have such a heavy price. Yeah I could break the window to get inside, and that would be fast and would most likely work, but maybe I should lift up the welcome mat and look for the key. I'm not really a "ends justify the means" kind of person, though.

[Korsriddare]

For a faction bend on human dominance they sure like to experiment on their own species.

[Arijharn]

Well, what is the relevance for testing on Asari? If you're trying to make super-humans, you don't want to make super-asari on the way do you?

[Korsriddare]

Yes, because all their deeds are about making super-humans.

[Schneidend]

I was cool with Cerberus up until the Collector base decision. A few of TIM's lines in that portion convinced me he had forgotten the "human" part of "humanity's best interests."

Now I'm running the show. We'll call it...Sherberus...? Sheperberus? Sheparberus?

Modifié par Schneidend, 07 février 2010 - 04:56 .

[Chuck_Vu]

"The ends justify the means" might be valid statement ONLY if you succeed. What do you think happens if you DON'T succeed. Also, it wouldn't be such a problem if Cerberus took responsibility for their failures/abandoned projects. Instead of sweeping it under the carpet and pretending it never happened. Take Jack, for example (love her or hate her, I don't care). Instead of the hunting her down like an animal and locking her up, what might have happened instead if they had got her treatment/therapy instead (and maybe got an powerfull WILLING biotic ally, instead of a powerfull biotic enemy). This is true in real life as well. How a person takes responsibility for his/her failures/missdeeds determines my positive or negative outlook on them.



Also, look up the term "Blowback" as used by intelligence agencies.

[-Area51-Silent]

You could think of the Alliance and Cerberus as two sides of the same coin actually. Cerberus is the side of the coin that gets things done and exists outside the scope of the alliance while still being a part of the central governement, The otherside, the alliance is the side of the coin that represents the public face and interacts with the Council.



To me it seams that the Turian councelor has an issue with humanity as a whole, but the rest of the council seams more subtle but still similar. The fact that they down play everything humanity does and even into the second game where they down play the Citadel invasion and human significants.



While the "Alliance" represents humanity in the spotlight, it wouldnt suprise me if Cerberus was a human governmental organization that was run purposely to allow humanity to keep itself safe in the case of catastrophic diplomatic failure. Just as the Salarians and Asari have their own groups that specifically train for their own races benefits, so should humanity. To trust an ally to much is to ensure your destruction should they change their mind.

[Jagri]

[quote]atheelogos wrote...

[/quote]"Not going to be effective against the Reapers- Controllable is debateable." Why wouldn't it be effective againsit them? You do know that a lot of their foot soldiers are organics right? We could disable a whole army of indoctrinated soldiers. How can you not see the benfit in that?

And to answer number five. That reaper was no where near finished. So of course the weapons were week.

"Ability to produce Reapers with large amounts of organic material
estimated guess to make one is around half a million lives if not a
full million. If they can be controlled is debateable." I don't think he wants to make more.

"Didn't have shield or offensive weapon capability so can't slavage anything there." Thats not the point. The base didn't utilize those functions, but that doesn't mean It wont have the information within to build those things. I mean just look at the collector ship. It was probably built at their the base so info has to be there. Imagine outfitting other Alliance ships with that tech. We could actually stand toe to toe with a reaper ship in combat.

To many people here are short sighted. In reality if your enemy has weaponry thats more advaced  than yours you are at an extreme disadvatage. So what do you do? You try to get a hold of tech so you can study it and advance your own. I mean come on can you see a real world military destroying hardware that can give them an edge? No of course not, because they would confiscate it and study it.
[/quote]

Controlling a Seeker Swarm again is debateable and if a Reaper was conducting operations with indoctrinated beings how would you program the Seeker Swarm to target those life forms without targetting your own? I wouldn't be surprised if the Reapers could overide whatever controll we had and doom us all for depending on it.

No one really understands TIM but I get the feeling he is a man with a God complex so I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit.

Collecters ship was defeated by a Normandy at 30 percent shied power with a Turian developed weapon which was influence by the weapons Sovereign used. -I mention influenced not slavaged-. So whatever weapons or shield technology that ship had we already have the capability to counter and overpower. The Collecter Ship outclassed the Normandy in size and ship class. Cruiser > Frigate. So if the Alliance goes with the same shield systems, ship armor, and weapon systems the Normandy had then they stand a better chance in ship to ship battles.

In the end we are assuming that the Reapers/Collecter wouldn't have a fail safe to wipe out all data if such a situation was to happen or that they would have a means on indocturination within the base. Would love to see TIM marvaling over his prize and slowly have his mind twisted like Saren. Lets just hope for those who gave the base to Cerberus you don't kick yourself too much. But you konw TIM would make quite a villian for Mass Effect 3.

[Sharn01]

Default137 wrote...

And people still don't want to look at the fact the Alliance has done most of the same things Cerberus did, and has possibly done even worse.

And people still don't want to understand why the Council can't know about the Reapers, because if they did it would be metagaming.

And people....

Your just making things up now, name one atrocity that the alliance has intentionally commited that is in the game's lore that comes anywhere close to many of the action's Cerberus has taken.

If your think Kaiden and the other's who where experimented on in childhood to become Biotic's, I got news for you, that was also Cerberus.

[SofaKingLiveBXNY]

TIM is or will be indoctrinated...he just seems like an easy target. I wanted to rock with him but early on I saw he was kind of two-faced. You can clearly see he has some ulterior motives than that "human intersts" routines. I think he might be indoctrinated already and/or wants to use the reaper threat to his advantage and will eventually try to make Shep a martyr(sp) to advance human dominance



And TIM knows everything that goes on in cerberus the good the bad the ugly... I think that whole thing at the plant with Jack was staged...why else was that the only terminal on b4 you got there..the rest you had to activate or play the log, this one was just goin off as you came inside..that made no sense and its right in the front. noone had turned that off. He had his hands on a derelict reaper but didnt kno they were torturing kids at HIS company.. at the end if Shep dies, he says MY ship like it didnt even matter the real cap died for humanity's sake. He is a dirtbag the more i think about it, I like his character story wise but my Shep doesnt take orders specially not from some suit.

[Rapamaha1]

I liked this char. hes a mysterious man and I am having hard time to believe that all he did for shepard was just to stop the collector attacks, I believe he had some larger plans at work, I hope we see it in ME3 what he really wants, as for the Cerberus organization I like the idea of it also, while they do some very cruel stuff they believe its best for humanity (or so they claim) but some of the stuff they do actually benefit humanity like I can remember from the Ascension Novel that they assasinated a politican who was going to be bad for humanity (cant remember exactly how this went but something like that atleast)

[Sharn01]

Rapamaha1 wrote...

I liked this char. hes a mysterious man and I am having hard time to believe that all he did for shepard was just to stop the collector attacks, I believe he had some larger plans at work, I hope we see it in ME3 what he really wants, as for the Cerberus organization I like the idea of it also, while they do some very cruel stuff they believe its best for humanity (or so they claim) but some of the stuff they do actually benefit humanity like I can remember from the Ascension Novel that they assasinated a politican who was going to be bad for humanity (cant remember exactly how this went but something like that atleast)

They assassinated a politician that was not in their pocket, they had control over his rival.

[Poison_Berrie]

mcharj11 wrote...
Perhaps the experiment on Grayson is the beginning or testing of project Lazarus, a lot of people seem to be taking Shepards new body for granted, how do we know that he isn't running on reverse engineered
Reaper tech?

It might have cost a lot to bring Shepard back from the (edge of?) dead, but I'm pretty sure cybernetics and advanced medical nano-technology are reasonably common place. It's more Mass Effect medicine pushed to the extreme.

As for my dislike for Cereberus, it stems from the way they go about their business.
The first game had me very suspicious of them and despite their recourses and help, the things TIM said and did always drove it home that he was only doing it for "his humanity". It just so happened that our goals intersected and the scope of it all made it worth it (for both side), but had it been Batarian raiders he wouldn't have blinked to buy the slaves for his experiments.

[Chung-Wang]

Cerberus can kiss my ass!



Or did someone already beat me to it? I didn't want to flip through all 12 pages.

[Turin_4]

Collecters ship was defeated by a Normandy at 30 percent shied power with a Turian developed weapon which was influence by the weapons Sovereign used. -I mention influenced not slavaged-. So whatever weapons or shield technology that ship had we already have the capability to counter and overpower. The Collecter Ship outclassed the Normandy in size and ship class. Cruiser > Frigate. So if the Alliance goes with the same shield systems, ship armor, and weapon systems the Normandy had then they stand a better chance in ship to ship battles.

Except that it's hinted at in the game that nobody could really afford to field many ships such as the Normandy mk2. The vast fortune the Illusive Man spent on it is hinted at many times, and he is said to have a fortune at least in the billions at his disposal for Cerberus...and I forget who said it, but someone said that he sank most of his fortune into building the Normandy and Shepard. Now, how much of that went to each, who knows? But Normandy mk2 as a super-experimental top-of-the-line proof-of-concept frigate, it's simply not going to be able to be mass-produced yet-especially its upgrades which are often even newer than the ship itself.



It beat the Collector ship, it's true, but that was also a surprise attack...and we didn't win by much, either. We were an upgrade or two away from being destroyed or absolutely mauled. What would've happened if the Collector ship and the Oculon robots fought together, as would normally have happened? Easy victory is what.

[michal9o90]

Chung-Wang wrote...

Cerberus can kiss my ass!

Or did someone already beat me to it? I didn't want to flip through all 12 pages.

Buhahahahahah i agree Cerberus can kiss my ass too! xD I will destroy cerberus!!!!!!! buahahah

[mcharj11]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

mcharj11 wrote...
Perhaps the experiment on Grayson is the beginning or testing of project Lazarus, a lot of people seem to be taking Shepards new body for granted, how do we know that he isn't running on reverse engineered
Reaper tech?

It might have cost a lot to bring Shepard back from the (edge of?) dead, but I'm pretty sure cybernetics and advanced medical nano-technology are reasonably common place. It's more Mass Effect medicine pushed to the extreme.

As for my dislike for Cereberus, it stems from the way they go about their business.
The first game had me very suspicious of them and despite their recourses and help, the things TIM said and did always drove it home that he was only doing it for "his humanity". It just so happened that our goals intersected and the scope of it all made it worth it (for both side), but had it been Batarian raiders he wouldn't have blinked to buy the slaves for his experiments.

Of course cybernetics and nano-tech would be commonly used however it is never specified hwo Shepard is rebuilt, plus it is mentioned a few tmes that nothing like that has ever been done before. He was dead not close to dead but completely dead, Jacob even says that all Shepard was, was a chunk of meat filled with tubes and anyone else would have buried him.

No due to the amount it cost Cerberus and the lack of details, project Lazarus is more than it seems, and if TIM has had Reaper tech implanted in former Cerberus agents like Grayson, it isn't so far fetched to think that Shepard is running on Reaper tech.

[Big Yam]

Cerebus is awesome, but the Illusive man got greedy at the end.  Had to nuke his prize.