442 réponses à ce sujet

[atheelogos]

fogofeternity wrote...

I'm not sure I'd have saved the base if I'd known Cerberus was going to be able to lock it down completely. I thought there'd be the opportunity to pass on information about it to the Alliance at the very least.

I agree. I like the fact that TIM, and Cerberus can get things done and make the hard calls when they need to be made, but I don't like Cerberus having sole ownership of that base. Its not that I don't like them, its that their funding isn't anywhere near as good as the Alliance. The Alliance has deeper pockets, they need to be informed of that base so they can poor all available resources into studying it.

So to say again I agree with what you said and I was a bit disapointed that the option to turn it over to the Alliance wasn't there.

[Darnalak]

Exactly, but they didn't HAVE to kill him, they could've made a phone call and got Kahoku stationed somewhere very cold, instead, they just greased him. That's about as "Ends justify the means" as it gets.

[Agamemnon2589]

Have you guys read "Ascension"? That's what really nailed the lid on the coffin for me with respect to Cerberus. That, and the fact that they killed Kahoku, and the thresher maw incident, etc. I just don't like their methods, and I don't trust the Illusive Man at all. My Shep is a full paragon, so yeah. They don't mesh overly well.

[Sassymcgee]

You're going to /blush when all the 'trust cerb' stuff that was never realized in this game comes to its head in number tres.

[Keltoris]

Agamemnon2589 wrote...

Have you guys read "Ascension"? That's what really nailed the lid on the coffin for me with respect to Cerberus. That, and the fact that they killed Kahoku, and the thresher maw incident, etc. I just don't like their methods, and I don't trust the Illusive Man at all. My Shep is a full paragon, so yeah. They don't mesh overly well.

I haven't read Ascension because Revelation put me off.

[phimseto]

No one's hands are clean. I love the "what have you done for me lately?" of so many of you. On an in-game note, none of you would even be in a position to hate the Illusive Man if he hadn't had the vision to a. bring you back from the dead and b. not implant you with control stuff. He may do some reprehensible stuff, but humanity probably needs a group like Cerberus. Maybe not to the extremes, but a group dedicated to investigating and responding to threads against the species is important.



The question of Cerberus is whether or not they can be curbed/brought back into the fold. I would rather explore that, and work to have the Illusive Man as an ally than outright destroy an organization that saved humanity when humanity's own official representitives were doing little to nothing (and fumbling in the dark all the while).

[atheelogos]

Shipwr3K wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Shipwr3K wrote...

i hope you do realize that all he wanted from the beginning was that base.

What are you talking about. He didn't even know there was a base until Shepards team had eyes on.

I was referring to their technology. 

Why wouldn't he want their technology? It only makes sense to use. If the enemy has more advanced tech than you have to get you hands on that tech so you can better your own. Thats how the game is played. I mean just look at the advances we made by incorporating Sovereign's tech into the main guns of the Normandy. Its a win win.

Modifié par atheelogos, 04 février 2010 - 03:16 .

[Chrisimo79]

ArcanistLibram wrote...

"The ends justify the means" is just an excuse for people who can't accomplish anything. Shepard doesn't need it.

Haha, yet he needs Cerberus' help to fight the Collectors

Modifié par Chrisimo79, 04 février 2010 - 02:58 .

[Shipwr3K]

atheelogos wrote...

Shipwr3K wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Shipwr3K wrote...

i hope you do realize that all he wanted from the beginning was that base.

What are you talking about. He didn't even know there was a base until Shepards team had eyes on.

I was referring to their technology. 

Why wouldn't he want their technology? It only makes sense to use. If the enemy is more advanced you have to get you hands on their tech so you can better your own. Thats how the game is played. I mean just look at advances we made by incorporating Sovereign's tech into the main guns of the Normandy. Its a win win.

yeah, thats why I gave him the base. hopefully, he makes sometimes good out of it, lol. 

[Chaplin_M]

im all for Taking over Cerberus and stuff but i cant work for a douche like TIM

[Shipwr3K]

I still dont get how ashley wasnt taken into the collectors vessel. she was bitten and then frozen on the cut scene lol.

[Chrisimo79]

Arcian wrote...

Chrisimo79 wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

"The ends justify the means" is just an excuse for people who can't accomplish anything. Shepard doesn't need it.

Haha, yet he needs Cerberus' help to fight the Collectors

It's the other way, around, remember?

Shepard was f*cking dead when the attacks began.

Yeah, well, my reply makes more sense when you read the post I replied to

[Apophis2412]

The Shelf wrote...

Oh, how I hate Cerberus!  Let me count the ways:

1. Cruelly experimented on sentient aliens.
2. I'm pretty sure Cerberus killed some really good people in ME1 to continue hiding said experiments.
3. Ruined the lives of countless human children (Kaidan, Jack, etc.)
4. Lured Ashley into a trap (he's lucky we weren't in the same room during that conversation).
5. Lured me and my entire crew into a trap (very lucky during that conversation too)

I'm sure there are other reasons, but these are the ones that spring to mind first.  Yeah, the only good thing TIM or Cerberus ever did was bring me back to life, but that won't excuse them from all the wrong they've done.

I'm Commander Shepard, and I'm going to bring you down, Cerberus.

Tough descisions sometimes have to be made. So yes, the end does sometimes justify the means. Even captain Anderson admitted that in ME1. Wether points 1 to 5 are 'evil' or 'immoral'depends on the question of if they have served a purpose.

Some of the people say in this topic that Cerberus is the only organisation that can make the difficult choices that have to be made. But what about the Spectres? They are above the law for a reason.

And OP,  just because the universe is hostile does not mean we should automatically adopt some kind of darwinist or caveman philosophy.

[atheelogos]

phimseto wrote...

No one's hands are clean. I love the "what have you done for me lately?" of so many of you. On an in-game note, none of you would even be in a position to hate the Illusive Man if he hadn't had the vision to a. bring you back from the dead and b. not implant you with control stuff. He may do some reprehensible stuff, but humanity probably needs a group like Cerberus. Maybe not to the extremes, but a group dedicated to investigating and responding to threats against the species is important.

The question of Cerberus is whether or not they can be curbed/brought back into the fold. I would rather explore that, and work to have the Illusive Man as an ally than outright destroy an organization that saved humanity when humanity's own official representitives were doing little to nothing (and fumbling in the dark all the while).

Good word I agree! Though I have to say I don't trust the Illusive Man. But he and his organization are needed, for now anyway. As a specter my shepard needs friends in high places as well as friends in low places.

[Doug84]

atheelogos wrote...

fogofeternity wrote...

I'm not sure I'd have saved the base if I'd known Cerberus was going to be able to lock it down completely. I thought there'd be the opportunity to pass on information about it to the Alliance at the very least.

I agree. I like the fact that TIM, and Cerberus can get things done and make the hard calls when they need to be made, but I don't like Cerberus having sole ownership of that base. Its not that I don't like them, its that their funding isn't anywhere near as good as the Alliance. The Alliance has deeper pockets, they need to be informed of that base so they can poor all available resources into studying it.

So to say again I agree with what you said and I was a bit disapointed that the option to turn it over to the Alliance wasn't there.

Its because Cerberus wants that base for themselves - they want weapons to conquer the Galaxy, not just stopping the Reapers. The Alliance wants to work with the aliens and generally get along with everyone else.

Hence, if Cerberus has the base, they sure as hell aren't going to let it go - add to that, the only Reaper IFF (and I'm guessing some copies) belong to Cerberus, so even if the Alliance and council invaded the Terminus systems and got to the Omega-4 relay, there'd be no way to reach the base.

[Erakleitos]

[atheelogos]

Shipwr3K wrote...

I still dont get how ashley wasnt taken into the collectors vessel. she was bitten and then frozen on the cut scene lol.

Its really not that hard to picture. The guy said they only got about half the colony. She was simple one of the people who hadn't been taken on board yet. Simple.

[Sturmwulfe]

I am glad I had the chance to metaphorically give the Illusive Man and Cerberus the finger and take two of their best operatives and a damn costly state of the art frigate with me (plus a heck of a lot of crew members). I remember all too well their dirty little experiments in the first game [e.g. Cerberus paid Exogeni to use the Zhu's Hope colonists as test subjects for the Thorian], and I am in total agreement with others that the well being of the galaxy is more important than just the rise of humanity. Of course, the Alliance and Council aren't going to do anything until it's too late, and the whole idea of using Reaper technology and think it won't affect or even indoctrinate you is wishful thinking at best. I'd rather not have to deal with more Husks, thanks.

[The Shelf]

Erakleitos wrote...

The Shelf wrote...

3. Ruined the lives of countless human children (Kaidan, Jack, etc.)

3. If you watch at security records while in Cerberus biotic research plant, you'll see that TIM is unaware of what's happening there.

I'm well aware of the security records and the email I got after that mission stating that TIM didn't know, but be honest.  You can't really tell me you believe that do you?  I mean, it's not like TIM never lied to us before to make us cooperate, right?  Even if it is true, and TIM didn't know about it, he is still in charge of an organization that fosters the mindset that does things like that.

[sodacatkun]

Erakleitos wrote...

w00t cerberus

[Chrisimo79]

The Shelf wrote...

Erakleitos wrote...

The Shelf wrote...

3. Ruined the lives of countless human children (Kaidan, Jack, etc.)

3. If you watch at security records while in Cerberus biotic research plant, you'll see that TIM is unaware of what's happening there.

I'm well aware of the security records and the email I got after that mission stating that TIM didn't know, but be honest.  You can't really tell me you believe that do you?  I mean, it's not like TIM never lied to us before to make us cooperate, right?  Even if it is true, and TIM didn't know about it, he is still in charge of an organization that fosters the mindset that does things like that.

True. And he wouldn't have anything against those methods as long as they provide results. But it doesn't matter. We have already worked with Cerberus and will continue to do so if we need to.

[MarauderW]

I just like explosions.

That and being on the run from the most powerful pro-human group in the galaxy while costing them a hellova lot of money seems like fun.

Modifié par MarauderW, 04 février 2010 - 03:33 .

[hawat333]

I could describe it one word: Methods.

[The Shelf]

Apophis2412 wrote...

Tough descisions sometimes have to be made. So yes, the end does sometimes justify the means. Even captain Anderson admitted that in ME1. Wether points 1 to 5 are 'evil' or 'immoral'depends on the question of if they have served a purpose.

Some of the people say in this topic that Cerberus is the only organisation that can make the difficult choices that have to be made. But what about the Spectres? They are above the law for a reason.

But even Spectres aren't wholly above the law.  They still have to report to the Council, and if they go too far out of line, other Spectres are brought in to take them out.  They have fewer restrictions, but they do still have restrictions.  Where is that balance in Cerberus?  What TIM says, goes, and that's all there is to it.