442 réponses à ce sujet

[Spazticus]

Cerberus did quite a lot of detestable and unneccessary things in ME1, and much of that revolved around the manufacture of slave armies - cultivation of Geth/Thorian husks, the corruption/spreading of the Rachni, mind control experiments on Feros and elsewhere, and much more. If the Reapers weren't a looming threat, TIM would, without a doubt in my mind, still be conducting those types of experiments. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would buy his story about all of it being "for the greater good." It's all about control with him. Who do you think those private slave armies, once raised, would be used against, if the Reapers were not in the picture?



In effect, how are we supposed to fight the threat of dozens, if not hundreds or even thousands of Reapers bearing down on us, when TIM is actively sanctioning the destruction of so many "human resources" for his own machinations? Sacrificing so many, such as Kahoku, in the long run seems like the prelude to a pyrrhic victory. Eventually, you just run out of pawns. Bringing back Shepard was just about the only good thing they did, but even that was just because they knew they'd be just as screwed as everyone else without Shepard around. Shepard's just a means to an end, too, for good or ill (Paragon or Renegade, it's more than likely good, though not necessarily the "good" TIM may plan for.) That single act doesn't absolve them in the least. It just allows them the chance to be around for the big finale.



I destroyed that base, because Cerberus set the prescedent of throwing away whole colonies to fit their goals. Granted, TIM most likely won't take it so far as creating another Reaper. I really don't want anyone in my ME story, Alliance or Cerberus, to have that option.

[MorphlingV2]

I ended up being torn in my opinion of Cerberus. On one hand they are clearly going too far in some of their projects and commit horrible crimes. On another they are the only people actually doing something about the real threat to all life in the galaxy. Many think of TIM as an evil guy and perhaps he is, but you also should not dismiss all the other Cerberus people risking their lives for the sake of your mission and little personal gain (the whole Normandy crew, Jacob, Miranda).



Would be nice to have a storyline option that would allow Shepard to become one of the leaders of Cerberus in an attempt to set them straight.



I ended up destroying the Collectors base, but not because of not wanting to hand it over to Cerberus. It was purely due to belief that relying on Reapers technology to defeat them would be a bad idea because of both Sovereign in ME1 and Legion in ME2 saying it was the reliance on their technology that made civilization develop in a predictable way. That, and the fear of indoctrination.

[F3ralCr]

The way I see it Cerberus works with a large network of completely autonomous proects with their individual leads and command structures. I don't think you can blame the Illusive Man for everything.



For instance: when the Illusive Man finds out what's going on with Jack and the other kids he orders the immediate shut-down of the project. Doesn't seem all that evil to me.



Why is it considered so evil not to BLOW UP A STATION WITH SUPER ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY THAT MILLIONS DIED FOR so that you can try to use the tech in productive ways?



I supported Cerberus by the end.

[atheelogos]

Sturmwulfe wrote...
and the whole idea of using Reaper technology and think it won't affect or even indoctrinate you is wishful thinking at best. I'd rather not have to deal with more Husks, thanks.

I swear no one knows about the new guns the Normandy has. And no one knows where they came from.

[Chrisimo79]

F3ralCr wrote...

The way I see it Cerberus works with a large network of completely autonomous proects with their individual leads and command structures. I don't think you can blame the Illusive Man for everything.

For instance: when the Illusive Man finds out what's going on with Jack and the other kids he orders the immediate shut-down of the project. Doesn't seem all that evil to me.

Why is it considered so evil not to BLOW UP A STATION WITH SUPER ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY THAT MILLIONS DIED FOR so that you can try to use the tech in productive ways?

I supported Cerberus by the end.

The Illusive Man wants human dominance AT ANY COST. He even says so. People should believe him. He surely didn't shut down the base because it was morally wrong. If he shut it down it was because it wasn't producing the wanted results.

[Mister Mage]

F3ralCr wrote...

The way I see it Cerberus works with a large network of completely autonomous proects with their individual leads and command structures. I don't think you can blame the Illusive Man for everything.

For instance: when the Illusive Man finds out what's going on with Jack and the other kids he orders the immediate shut-down of the project. Doesn't seem all that evil to me.

Why is it considered so evil not to BLOW UP A STATION WITH SUPER ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY THAT MILLIONS DIED FOR so that you can try to use the tech in productive ways?

I supported Cerberus by the end.

Except that's nothing like what's going on.  When EDI gets full access to all systems, you get more information on Cerberus from her.  There are only 150 actual people involved, and the Illusive Man keeps it small so that he can personally oversee everything.

[Orogenic]

Facing an invasion by a reaper armada of unknown size and strength, there really is no choice but to keep the base. That technology may represent the only real hope for survival.



I would have flown straight to the citadel and petitioned the council for a multi-species scientific expedition to the base. The information is too powerful to rest in the hands of any single faction.



The Illusive man and Cerberus will eventually be tried for crimes against humanity (actually all sentient life) and I hope Shep gets to put a bullet right between his freaky implanted eyes.

[Gabey5]

i wanna kill half the humans i come across in me 2

[Wolverfrog]

At the end of the game, the smile TIM gave when looking at the Collector base hologram sent shivers down my spine -- he wants power, he doesn't solely care about humanity.

[atheelogos]

F3ralCr wrote...

I supported Cerberus by the end.

I know what you mean. Cerberus still make me feel, uncomfortable, and I will never fully trust TIM, but that base is needed.

[raist747]

I'm pretty certain if Cerberus had their way, aliens would be drinking out of different water fountains.

[Doug84]

The Shelf wrote...

Erakleitos wrote...

The Shelf wrote...

3. Ruined the lives of countless human children (Kaidan, Jack, etc.)

3. If you watch at security records while in Cerberus biotic research plant, you'll see that TIM is unaware of what's happening there.

I'm well aware of the security records and the email I got after that mission stating that TIM didn't know, but be honest.  You can't really tell me you believe that do you?  I mean, it's not like TIM never lied to us before to make us cooperate, right?  Even if it is true, and TIM didn't know about it, he is still in charge of an organization that fosters the mindset that does things like that.

Who knows with TIM. But to be fair, I really do think he didn't know about that. TIM will and does hurt people to get to his goals, but really only when he thinks it necessary. And wasting that many biotics for Jack doesn't seem his style.

However, if you go paragon at the end, TIM says something like "Strength for Cerberus IS strength for humanity" when Shep tells him off.

[Arryngow]

F3ralCr wrote...

The way I see it Cerberus works with a large network of completely autonomous proects with their individual leads and command structures. I don't think you can blame the Illusive Man for everything.

For instance: when the Illusive Man finds out what's going on with Jack and the other kids he orders the immediate shut-down of the project. Doesn't seem all that evil to me.

Go read Ascension. TIM knows. He was fully aware of Cerebrus' experiments on children. And he's good at emotionally manipulating the people under him with his "omigosh, is that really what's going on?? I had no idea!!" routine. He's a GREAT actor.

And consider this: TIM sends you onto a derelict Collector ship, knowing full well it's a trap. He knows exactly what you're walking into, but acts all innocent, until you find out and confront him. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice ...

Cerebrus doesn't care about human dominance. Cerebrus cares about Cerebrus dominance.

[atheelogos]

Orogenic wrote...

Facing an invasion by a reaper armada of unknown size and strength, there really is no choice but to keep the base. That technology may represent the only real hope for survival.

I would have flown straight to the citadel and petitioned the council for a multi-species scientific expedition to the base. The information is too powerful to rest in the hands of any single faction.

An Interesting idea. But if the roles were reversed I doubt they would include us in that research. The other races would love to keep us down and out of the loop.

[Doug84]

Wolverfrog wrote...

At the end of the game, the smile TIM gave when looking at the Collector base hologram sent shivers down my spine -- he wants power, he doesn't solely care about humanity.

Agreed - he wants humanity to conquer the Galaxy, but with him at the helm.

[atheelogos]

Doug84 wrote...

The Shelf wrote...

Erakleitos wrote...

The Shelf wrote...

3. Ruined the lives of countless human children (Kaidan, Jack, etc.)

3. If you watch at security records while in Cerberus biotic research plant, you'll see that TIM is unaware of what's happening there.

I'm well aware of the security records and the email I got after that mission stating that TIM didn't know, but be honest.  You can't really tell me you believe that do you?  I mean, it's not like TIM never lied to us before to make us cooperate, right?  Even if it is true, and TIM didn't know about it, he is still in charge of an organization that fosters the mindset that does things like that.

Who knows with TIM. But to be fair, I really do think he didn't know about that. TIM will and does hurt people to get to his goals, but really only when he thinks it necessary. And wasting that many biotics for Jack doesn't seem his style.

What you say sounds logical. If TIM did hurt those people he would confess to it. He is ruthless at times and he has always been honest about that. I don't see why he would try and conver it up from Shepard who has already seen some of their worst experiments. There's really is no reason to hide the truth from shepard in that situation.

[atheelogos]

[quote]Arryngow wrote...

[quote]F3ralCr wrote...

Cerebrus doesn't care about human dominance. Cerebrus cares about Cerebrus dominance.[/quote]They're one in the same.

[atheelogos]

[quote]Arryngow wrote...

[quote]F3ralCr wrote...

Cerebrus doesn't care about human dominance. Cerebrus cares about Cerebrus dominance.[/quote]

They're one in the same.

[medlish]

If you are a pure, neutral business person you certainly see the value in the relationship with TIM and saving the Collector base. Also, TIM will not ditch you in a long time because he knows you're valuable and it's not good to have you as an enemy.

[KalliChan07]

I see where you're coming from OP.



At first, I felt the same way (mainly because I didn't have a lot of back history with ME1). Over time, him tricking me into going to a trap, risking my crew for his 'desperate' race to save colonies (that had stopped being invaded after I punched the collector ship in the face at Horizon), and all of this AFTER bringing me back from the dead?



Basically, Shepard knows how to do his/her job. To be dragged around like that just shows it's not humanities interests he's keeping in mind, it's his. If he were Turian, Krogan, Salarien, etc he'd be doing the exact same thing.



He just wants to rule it all.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Wolverfrog wrote...

At the end of the game, the smile TIM gave when looking at the Collector base hologram sent shivers down my spine -- he wants power, he doesn't solely care about humanity.

Kinda like this then?

[Kavva]

Cerberus is evil, he experimented on Zero, and there are further facts that will be decrypted by EDI (in one of the optional N7 missions there were some data of cerberus reserch that could be sent to council, return to cerberus or you could keep it for youreself - ive chosen the last option)

[Arryngow]

[quote]atheelogos wrote...

[quote]Arryngow wrote...

[quote]F3ralCr wrote...

Cerebrus doesn't care about human dominance. Cerebrus cares about Cerebrus dominance.[/quote]They're one in the same.
[/quote]

Not really. Not at all actually. Cerebrus is an organization designed for the sole purpose of putting those in charge of it (and really, that's only TIM) on some sort of galaxy-wide throne.

Ask yourself this. If the Reapers were defeated, all other alien races subjugated or destroyed with humans on top and TIM in control, do you think TIMs experiments on humans would stop?

Run of the mill humanity would mean just as much to TIM then as it apparently does now, which is to say, nothing at all.

[nitefyre410]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

Wolverfrog wrote...

At the end of the game, the smile TIM gave when looking at the Collector base hologram sent shivers down my spine -- he wants power, he doesn't solely care about humanity.

Kinda like this then?

Yep the pretty much sums up my opinion of T.I.M and  Cerberus ...not matter how logically the choice for keeping the base is... its just TOO dangerous in the end... It had to go  and if T.I.M keeps messing with my  Shephard  he is going to be next.

[Alien1099]

Mister Mage wrote...

F3ralCr wrote...

The way I see it Cerberus works with a large network of completely autonomous proects with their individual leads and command structures. I don't think you can blame the Illusive Man for everything.

For instance: when the Illusive Man finds out what's going on with Jack and the other kids he orders the immediate shut-down of the project. Doesn't seem all that evil to me.

Why is it considered so evil not to BLOW UP A STATION WITH SUPER ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY THAT MILLIONS DIED FOR so that you can try to use the tech in productive ways?

I supported Cerberus by the end.

Except that's nothing like what's going on.  When EDI gets full access to all systems, you get more information on Cerberus from her.  There are only 150 actual people involved, and the Illusive Man keeps it small so that he can personally oversee everything.

Except pay attention during Jack's personal quest and you'll see that he doesn't micro-manage everything and allows his project leads to work nearly autonomously, just like Shepard.

Modifié par Alien1099, 04 février 2010 - 04:26 .