442 réponses à ce sujet

[Barquiel]

atheelogos wrote...

I don't think they dislike aliens. At least not all of the people in cerberus do.

It's a shame that Kelly isn't the boss of Cerberus (because I am not sure about TIM...)

[Schurge]

Barquiel wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

I don't think they dislike aliens. At least not all of the people in cerberus do.

It's a shame that Kelly isn't the boss of Cerberus (because I am not sure about TIM...)

There are exceptions to every rule. Kelly, obviously loves everyone. I don't think Jacob is racist either (as in humanity is a race, quarians are a race, etc.).

[Himmelstor]

In the end, cerberus is doing what needs to be done...BUT dear old TIM will only do so in a manner that will put humanity on top of all others, and cerberus on top of humanity. He is already on top of cerberus.



As I have said before, I want to pump round after round after round into TIM's smug little face...

[Default137]

http://masseffect.wi...cension_Project



Cerberus was still on the Alliances payroll when those EeZo ships got mysteriously destroyed by Cerberus operatives over planets, in an effort to increase the amount of biotics in the Alliance, it also happened to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people, something which any scientist of the time could have told you would have happened.



Go Alliance!



Oh, there is also the bit where the Alliance councilor tried to create an army of AI controlled machines to "help" the Citadel, but when Anderson and Saren went in to find out what was actually going on, it turned out the Alliance was building them in the hopes they could use them against the Council.



Yeah, the Alliance is just as bad as Cerberus, they are just better then hiding it, if you don't care enough to look, both sides want the exact same thing, and are going to do whatever it takes to reach that goal, one side is just better at lying to Shepard then the other side is, has alot better politicians, and has alot more unlucky soldiers that you have to rescue, doesn't make them the Paragons of Virtue.



I don't like TIM, but his organization gets the job done, and will most likely continue to get the job done in ME3, meanwhile, the Alliance will have a pole so far shoved up its ass that the Reapers will be knocking on the front door of the Citadel before they finally come to their senses, and by that time, billions if not trillions of people would have died to their red tape bull****, if I have to kill fifty people to make sure several bazillion survive a purge, I'll do it gladly, even if my new employer doesn't like aliens, neither did my old employers, they just were more willing to take a second plate.

[MBirkhofer]

atheelogos wrote...

MBirkhofer wrote...

OP, did you actually play ME1?
If all you play is ME2, it's very possible to come to the conclusion the Illusive man has the right idea.
But in 1, its pretty clear they are recklessly endangering lives. As well as clearly have no moral compass in achieving their goals.
Whats the point of saving lives, if you have to murder millions to do it?

Let a million die to save a trillion. Its a hard choice no one should have to make, but at the end of the day it must be done. You can't hold anything back when fighting the reapers.

What gives him the right to make that choice?
How does he know, one of the millions of people he killed weren't the ones that could have stopped the reapers?
What if the Rachni he cloned run wild due to his negligance, and prevent the Alliance from being able to mount a defense becuase they are being overrun by Rachni?

Cerberus and TIM's hand was not forced into making a hard choice.  He is playing god.


Also of note.
Edi tells you TIM has direct control of all Cerberus cells/projects.   This means he was directly responsible and aware of what was going on with Jack, and all ME1 Cerberus events.  He lied to you about it.
She also says up to 12 cells in the past, but currently 3 cells.   We can assume, Shepard is considered one of those cells, so TIM as 2  other projects going on currently.    Which begs the question.  what are they?

1 is likely Dark energy related.

Modifié par MBirkhofer, 04 février 2010 - 08:05 .

[btthegeek]

For me it's all a question of do the ends justify the means? In the case of TIM, absolutely not. I saw what they did on Akuze, and I can't wait to call him out for it.



Unless I play renegade, then I'll probably tell him to go f*** himself anyway.

[Orogenic]

Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
        
-Nietzsche

[pelhikano]

*silence*



- The total amount of sentient thought in the galaxy after the Reapers are done

[Indie Thompson]

Nah, only reason i worked with TIM was because they revived me and the threat was very real.

Otherwise i would have just told him to screw himself up the arse. So screw him and screw Cerberus. They are the biggest evil in the galaxy right after reapers. Damn, even Morinth agrees that the Collectors base is an abomination. And she is one sick psychopath ! Doesnt really speak in TIM's favor now dies it ?

[Abirn]

MBirkhofer wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

MBirkhofer wrote...

OP, did you actually play ME1?
If all you play is ME2, it's very possible to come to the conclusion the Illusive man has the right idea.
But in 1, its pretty clear they are recklessly endangering lives. As well as clearly have no moral compass in achieving their goals.
Whats the point of saving lives, if you have to murder millions to do it?

Let a million die to save a trillion. Its a hard choice no one should have to make, but at the end of the day it must be done. You can't hold anything back when fighting the reapers.

What gives him the right to make that choice?
How does he know, one of the millions of people he killed weren't the ones that could have stopped the reapers?
What if the Rachni he cloned run wild due to his negligance, and prevent the Alliance from being able to mount a defense becuase they are being overrun by Rachni?

Cerberus and TIM's hand was not forced into making a hard choice.  He is playing god.


Also of note.
Edi tells you TIM has direct control of all Cerberus cells/projects.   This means he was directly responsible and aware of what was going on with Jack, and all ME1 Cerberus events.  He lied to you about it.
She also says up to 12 cells in the past, but currently 3 cells.   We can assume, Shepard is considered one of those cells, so TIM as 2  other projects going on currently.    Which begs the question.  what are they?

1 is likely Dark energy related.

If anything Is going to prevent the alliance from mounting a defense, it will be the fact that they are ignoring the threat completley.  Not a rachni squad.

[Lord Atlia]

Really I think that Bioware attempted to salvage Cerberus and thus tried painting them more noble than in ME1. They might have what they considered a noble agenda but most of the galaxy thinks they are terrorists, including the alliance, and most of their actions pre ME2 point to terrorism.

Modifié par Lord Atlia, 04 février 2010 - 09:46 .

[Vaenier]

Right now in my books, Cerberus is even. They have done some really bad things in the past, but have always cleaned up their messes and admitted their mistakes. They have murdered, but they did save my shep, and helped save countless humans from the collectors. They are not good guys yet, just barely even.

Depending on how TIM runs Cerberus from now on, we could become buds. Highly unlikely, and I predict in ME3 that I have to kill him and take my Reaper factory back from his cold dead hands.

I will miss him, his sun was like an acid trip

[Kuari999]

Here's one reason: Cerberus was the reason I lost my squad in Akuze. They can bite me.

[TheShizzo]

Renegade all the way, screw the pansy paragon approach.

[pelhikano]

Cerberus in ME1 was comically evil, nothing at all they did was remotely good. I'm glad that ME2 decided to make things a lot more gray in this regard. Say what you will but without TIM's intervention Shepard would still be dead, and the Collectors would have gone on collecting while the council sat on their thumbs, and the Reapers would likely be simply ignored until they simply arrived on the galactic doorstep one day.

[Abirn]

Cerberus isn't the only secret organization in the galaxy, Like the salarians have the STS, every race has organizations that advance their own causes, Why does cerberus get all the hate.

[Orogenic]

"Evil" can be roughly defined as placing the needs and desires of the self above all other things.



"Good" has the essentially the same goal, but also has the wisdom to realize that all things are essentially an extension of self.



For this reason I almost pity those that seek power in evil.. they are essentially stunted and clueless and in many cases incapable of realizing how pathetic they really are.



Still, I look forward to removing the Illusive man from the universe... persons like this are nothing more than malignant growths that threaten the whole.

[-Area51-Silent]

What Cerberus is, is somthing that still shrouded imo, though when you go back to the council and Anderson and they decide that after everything that went down, the Reapers weren't real and that it wasn't their concern human colonies were disappearing, you have to agree that governmental body just gave you the finger.

The gist I get from the council is that they don't really like humans, even after everything that has happened. They don't really care about human problems, don't really want them to be equals even though they got bailed out by humans. Cerberus is evil, but self-preserving, as most evil things are.

Thus Cerberus gives Shepard the oppertunity to do what has to be done, more for humanity, but really for the entire galaxy, by bailing them out, I feel no remorse for the council that damns everyone to death with ignorance, and the Alliance has to play nice with the council, which is just basic politics.

Modifié par -Area51-Silent, 04 février 2010 - 10:07 .

[medlish]

You guys are forgetting:



Illusive Man does not equal Cerberus. Many things Cerberus did may not have been commanded by TIM. Also, to all those deathes you aren't really aware of the backgrounds.

TIM is a shady person but that doesn't mean following him makes things worse. To the contrary, since you worked for TIM everything did get better.

[Fates end]

most of my characters are Sole Survivors. That alone is reason enough for them to destroy Cerberus. I'm not saying they're all bad, but that doesn't excuse their actions.

[Taritu]

Cerberus are a bunch of terrorists and TIm wants to be dictator over humans, and humans over aliens. Those aren't my Shepard's ideals. Democracy and equality are messy things, and often not the most efficient or effective ways to get things done, but tyranny and terror are worse.

I'm not saving the galaxy so Tim can turn into a human tyranny. And I don't care what Kelly thinks, Tim is in charge not my admin assistant.

And most of the time the ends don't justify means.

Tim tells you repeatedly you are his most valued ASSET. You're not a person to him, no one is a person to him.  It's nice he brought you back, but you didn't ask him to, and he got his money's worth.  No way Miranda, say, could have recruited that squad full of aliens and gained their trust.  There may be people other than Shepard who could, but none of them would work for Cerberus.

Modifié par Taritu, 04 février 2010 - 10:22 .

[Myrmedus]

The Illusive Man has personal interests in his agenda...if not at the forefront then very close behind. If I didn't know better I'd expect a man as manipulative as that to be thinking even beyond the impeding Reaper War as to how to grab the power vacuum that always comes from the end of a war and use it for his own gain - his smile if you save the Collector Base is a perfect example of his loose agendas.



I'm working with him up to the point where I need him and then that's it - the exact same he'd do to me.

[Missouri Tigers]

I thought he was a good character.  I didn't exactly like him, but I didn't hate him.  I liked working for Cerburus after the Council completely put me off again.  At the beginning I'm not liking it too much, but after the Council completely screws me I say "Screw them" and decided that Cerburus was truly the only organization willing to stop an enemy.  Cerberus has saved every single being in Citadel space and the Terminus Systems by stopping the Collectors.  I wasn't a renegade character either.  Both games I've made whatever decision I wanted and had a lot of both, slightly more Paragon.  I chose the paragon ending first game, renegade this game.  If I could redo my ME1 decision, I would choose the neutral ending and focus on Sovereign.

[Myrmedus]

The problem I have with TIM is that he's voiced by Martin Sheen...so no matter how much of a bastard he is I just feel the need to be nice to him :/

But yes he definitely has personal power in his mind at some point. If the galaxy survives the Reapers I wouldn't be surprised if TIM is ready and well prepared to grab power over the galaxy and over the Council itself if you go the Renegade routes in ME2.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 04 février 2010 - 10:31 .