442 réponses à ce sujet

[spurge11]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

I truly enjoyed working for the illusive man, that guy have the same mindset as i have.

Does a "The means justify the end" attitude hold a high moral/ethical value compared to our 2010 western culture standards? Maybe not, but who cares? In a hostile universe as mass effect 2 it truly is survival of the fittest. And most self rightious good doers tends to end up dead.

The Illusive man has plans for humanity. He has ambition and he is strong and resourcefull and i wouldve followed him and cerberus to hell and back. Without him and cerberus recovering shepard the mass effect universe would probarly have ended in tragedy and annihilation.

I look foward to work for him, or even replace him in ME:3!

I thought I was alone on this

[Default137]

Once again, for those who also read the books.

Did none of you catch the fact that Cerberus would have still been on the Alliance payroll when they destroyed those EeZo Ships over human colonies, something they knew in advance would kill billions of innocent people in a quite painful manner, just so the Alliance could get biotics faster.

Did you not catch the fact that it was the Alliance who started the experiments on children, and Cerberus just tried to steal some for their own research?

Did you not catch the fact the Alliance Councilor prior to Udina was messing around with advanced AI programs on the side, programs which "mysteriously" were against the Council, even though the only people who should have had access to them was the Alliance?

Did you miss the memo that the vast majority of Cerberus "terrorist" activity was done while it was an Alliance organization, and only a small amount of things can actually be attributed to them prior to the fallout between the two groups, most of which is very suspect?

Have any of you ever listened to a single thing anyone in Cerberus has said, rather then just listening to what their enemies have to say about them? Nobody in Cerberus says they want to conquer the universe, nobody in the organization says they want to kill and enslave all aliens, their only goal is to keep humanity safe, and try to advance it, through any means necessary, which is exactly what the Alliance is trying to do, Cerberus just has less tape to go through, and doesn't ****** around with Spectres, and Council Seats, but rather just gets the job done.

Cerberus is not a good organization, far from it, they represent the ideal that the ends will justify the means, and TIM belives his ruthless actions will be jusitified after Cerberus saves the galaxy, something that may well be true, but saying Cerberus is dastardly, evil, and scum, all while trying to promote the Alliance is well, ironic at the very least, and fairly hypocritical at best.

Modifié par Default137, 05 février 2010 - 09:50 .

[Peregrinus842]

I hate cerberus not all who works in them but the rep and what they do is rediculesly retarded

But i am also a cynic philospher in a sence so i believe in justice and To help anyone in distress

Me and samara prolly conjoined at the hip in the sence i will also kill for those who deserve to die but would rather see their life waste away in a holding facility

[atheelogos]

Default137 wrote...

Once again, for those who also read the books.

Did none of you catch the fact that Cerberus would have still been on the Alliance payroll when they destroyed those EeZo Ships over human colonies, something they knew in advance would kill billions of innocent people in a quite painful manner, just so the Alliance could get biotics faster.

Did you not catch the fact that it was the Alliance who started the experiments on children, and Cerberus just tried to steal some for their own research?

Did you not catch the fact the Alliance Councilor prior to Udina was messing around with advanced AI programs on the side, programs which "mysteriously" were against the Council, even though the only people who should have had access to them was the Alliance?

Did you miss the memo that the vast majority of Cerberus "terrorist" activity was done while it was an Alliance organization, and only a small amount of things can actually be attributed to them prior to the fallout between the two groups, most of which is very suspect?

Have any of you ever listened to a single thing anyone in Cerberus has said, rather then just listening to what their enemies have to say about them? Nobody in Cerberus says they want to conquer the universe, nobody in the organization says they want to kill and enslave all aliens, their only goal is to keep humanity safe, and try to advance it, through any means necessary, which is exactly what the Alliance is trying to do, Cerberus just has less tape to go through, and doesn't ****** around with Spectres, and Council Seats, but rather just gets the job done.

Cerberus is not a good organization, far from it, they represent the ideal that the ends will justify the means, and TIM belives his ruthless actions will be jusitified after Cerberus saves the galaxy, something that may well be true, but saying Cerberus is dastardly, evil, and scum, all while trying to promote the Alliance is well, ironic at the very least, and fairly hypocritical at best.

I have this weird feeling that Cerberus never left the Alliance. Maybe the whole going rogue thing was a front.... think about it.

[Ulathar]

SomeoneStoleMyName wrote...

I truly enjoyed working for the illusive man, that guy have the same mindset as i have.

Does a "The means justify the end" attitude hold a high moral/ethical value compared to our 2010 western culture standards? Maybe not, but who cares? In a hostile universe as mass effect 2 it truly is survival of the fittest. And most self rightious good doers tends to end up dead.

The Illusive man has plans for humanity. He has ambition and he is strong and resourcefull and i wouldve followed him and cerberus to hell and back. Without him and cerberus recovering shepard the mass effect universe would probarly have ended in tragedy and annihilation.

I look foward to work for him, or even replace him in ME:3!

(I didn't read the whole thread, so if there are other people who think this way - this goes to you too)

I though I was alone in this. I feel exactly the same way. I hope we can continue to work for/with him and (if possible) replace him - that would be awesome. It's also my opinion that when the survival of humanity (and every other species in the galaxy) is at stake, the ends DO justifiy the means. If we can secure humanity's dominance in the galaxy in the process, well, what's not to like 
I don't consider myself evil by the way.

[EG NeoMorph]

Default137 wrote...

Once again, for those who also read the books.

Did none of you catch the fact that Cerberus would have still been on the Alliance payroll when they destroyed those EeZo Ships over human colonies, something they knew in advance would kill billions of innocent people in a quite painful manner, just so the Alliance could get biotics faster.

Did you not catch the fact that it was the Alliance who started the experiments on children, and Cerberus just tried to steal some for their own research?

Did you not catch the fact the Alliance Councilor prior to Udina was messing around with advanced AI programs on the side, programs which "mysteriously" were against the Council, even though the only people who should have had access to them was the Alliance?

Did you miss the memo that the vast majority of Cerberus "terrorist" activity was done while it was an Alliance organization, and only a small amount of things can actually be attributed to them prior to the fallout between the two groups, most of which is very suspect?

Have any of you ever listened to a single thing anyone in Cerberus has said, rather then just listening to what their enemies have to say about them? Nobody in Cerberus says they want to conquer the universe, nobody in the organization says they want to kill and enslave all aliens, their only goal is to keep humanity safe, and try to advance it, through any means necessary, which is exactly what the Alliance is trying to do, Cerberus just has less tape to go through, and doesn't ****** around with Spectres, and Council Seats, but rather just gets the job done.

Cerberus is not a good organization, far from it, they represent the ideal that the ends will justify the means, and TIM belives his ruthless actions will be jusitified after Cerberus saves the galaxy, something that may well be true, but saying Cerberus is dastardly, evil, and scum, all while trying to promote the Alliance is well, ironic at the very least, and fairly hypocritical at best.

The Alliance were working with the kids who were made biotic FROM THE "ACCIDENT" caused by the Illusive Man. I've read books 1 and 2 and from what I have read about book 3 you have the Illusive man rewarding Paul Grayson for protecting his "daughter" by infecting him with very painful Reaper technology.

Cerberus are Xenophobes pure and simple... The Alliance at least will work with other races... The Illusive man just wants to take shortcuts no matter what the cost in collateral damage. I'm wondering if the "Shadow Broker" is actually Cerberus or just the Illusive man himself. Would make sense.

The Alliance is made up of Humans and of course humans are not perfect angels. Of course there will be some who are going to be bastards as well as some of those who are quite the opposite. Compared to what Cerberus has done though shows that Cerberus will even kill humans to give the Illusive man what he wants... This "ends justifying the means" shows how bad they are. If you read the books you realise that killing 600+ Quarians just to get a getaway distraction shows how ruthless some of their teams are.

Cerberus are not a terrorist group though... they are not using terror to get what they want... they are cold blooded murderers, child abusers, xenophobes and basically selfish bastards who really need to be taken down. I really loved it when I came back from the suicide mission and told the Illusive man to shove it and nicked his ship heh.

Even the "Cerberus Cheerleader" agreed that blowing the crap out of the base was the right thing to do. 

I think that in ME3, the Illusive man is going down. Did anyone else see the subtle message right at the end... THE STAR WAS DYING! It had gone from normal red/orange to blue. Remember Tali couldn't figure out why the star she was studying was dying before its time? The Illusive man is developing a weapon that will be able to kill whole planets by killing the life support that is the sun of any enemy.

[Zoe Dedweth]

Keltoris wrote...

ReubenLiew wrote...

Because the Galaxy belongs to the Emperor, not this mortal upstart

Oh boy...

Get your Imperialistic dogma out of here. I don't care if he's still "alive"; the guys working for him are a bunch of cretins who haven't had a new idea in longer than we've had calenders.

To heretics I bring Naught but ruination and flame. Repent or be cleansed sinner.

[nitefyre410]

I looked at my conflict   about Cerbeus along the lines of.... If I become a monster to kill  the Monsters .... what I have to gained... what have I won... nothing.  As logical as it may seem for   Cerebus to  keep the station and use for the battle against the Reapers... I would be a damn fool to think that TIM did not have his own plans  to use that tech for own means and hell its Reaper tech,  maybe Harbinger WANTED  some one to get there hands on it and try use it like a trojan horse it just to much of the risk to keep the station.   

Cerberus is and will always be a case of the The enemy of the my enemy is my friend.

[Chrisimo79]

EG NeoMorph wrote...

Cerberus are Xenophobes pure and simple... The Alliance at least will work with other races... The Illusive man just wants to take shortcuts no matter what the cost in collateral damage. I'm wondering if the "Shadow Broker" is actually Cerberus or just the Illusive man himself. Would make sense.

Kelly is a xenophobe? Didn't notice that. Cerberus doesn't work with Aliens? You should play ME2

[Splinter Cell 108]

I agree, I was angry at the council and the Alliance for not doing anything about the Collectors. All they did was denying everything. I liked working for Cerberus but that doesn't mean I liked them. The Ilusive man is out of his mind, how could he want to take that base back. It's Reaper tech and anyone that gets involved with that always ends up as a husk, dead or indoctrinated. Besides it's basically a Reaper factory, for all we know he would probably start kidnapping Turians or Salarians to start making his own Reaper. He's nuts, and he is mysterious, I've heard that he was alive when the Mars ruins where discovered. Anyone that has lived that long must have had something put into their bodies and not just regular implants. Who knows what kind of alien technology he had installed into him?

[Kyero]

because Cerberus wants humans do dominate the universe. that screams Racist

[atheelogos]

Kyero wrote...

because Cerberus wants humans do dominate the universe. that screams Racist

One thats not racist. Two why shouldn't we try to advance our position? The Council races have been keeping others at a disadvantage for thousands of years. They like the status quo.

[jxd73]

Yes, we should have the UN, I mean Council to send hundreds strongly worded letters of condemnation to the Reapers, that'll show them.



All the aliens in ME2 could do was whine, "boohoo, you humans are so much stronger now we can't boss you around, woe is us"



It's easy to see who's worth saving, who isn't.

[Higgins2009]

In order to accomplish great and meaningful things in the universe, you'll need a lot of ressources, which Shepard does not have. Alliance dropped him, downplaying his success. So there is not much of a choice of sponsors for a renegade. Cerberus is a tool and supports Shepard as long as he wants this. He'll just have to take care to be needed in the future. That's why I had to blow the compound. Bad feelings or cerberus are comfort or you just step back in the second row and let real heros rule. hehe

[aeetos21]

In order to save time here's a link to 41 page thread on the old forum that dicusses this very issue and trust me on this, there isn't an argument anybody can argue on here that hasn't already been discussed.



So do yourself a favor, read the thread, and make up your own mind because this topic has been discussed to death.



http://meforums.biow...&forum=144&sp=0

[Default137]

EG NeoMorph wrote...

Default137 wrote...

Once again, for those who also read the books.

Did none of you catch the fact that Cerberus would have still been on the Alliance payroll when they destroyed those EeZo Ships over human colonies, something they knew in advance would kill billions of innocent people in a quite painful manner, just so the Alliance could get biotics faster.

Did you not catch the fact that it was the Alliance who started the experiments on children, and Cerberus just tried to steal some for their own research?

Did you not catch the fact the Alliance Councilor prior to Udina was messing around with advanced AI programs on the side, programs which "mysteriously" were against the Council, even though the only people who should have had access to them was the Alliance?

Did you miss the memo that the vast majority of Cerberus "terrorist" activity was done while it was an Alliance organization, and only a small amount of things can actually be attributed to them prior to the fallout between the two groups, most of which is very suspect?

Have any of you ever listened to a single thing anyone in Cerberus has said, rather then just listening to what their enemies have to say about them? Nobody in Cerberus says they want to conquer the universe, nobody in the organization says they want to kill and enslave all aliens, their only goal is to keep humanity safe, and try to advance it, through any means necessary, which is exactly what the Alliance is trying to do, Cerberus just has less tape to go through, and doesn't ****** around with Spectres, and Council Seats, but rather just gets the job done.

Cerberus is not a good organization, far from it, they represent the ideal that the ends will justify the means, and TIM belives his ruthless actions will be jusitified after Cerberus saves the galaxy, something that may well be true, but saying Cerberus is dastardly, evil, and scum, all while trying to promote the Alliance is well, ironic at the very least, and fairly hypocritical at best.

The Alliance were working with the kids who were made biotic FROM THE "ACCIDENT" caused by the Illusive Man. I've read books 1 and 2 and from what I have read about book 3 you have the Illusive man rewarding Paul Grayson for protecting his "daughter" by infecting him with very painful Reaper technology

The "accident" was caused while Cerberus was working with the Alliance.

At this time, the Alliance controlled Cerberus.

And they killed billions

While a Alliance group

And the Illusive Man was a government agent

There was no fallout, meaning the Alliance ordered it

Then the Alliance took the kids to experiment on.

Alliance plan -> Alliance plan -> Alliance plan -> Illusive Man deciding it would be good for his organizations goals to have some of those brats on board. There is also the fact that the Alliance has had many other "industrial ship" incidents over their colonies, all of which involved EeZo, and many of which killed thousands of colonists, this was long after Cerberus had left the Alliance however.

And again, have any of you listened to ANY Cerberus personal? The only people in the game that say that Cerberus are racist, and want to dominate the other races are Alliancemembers, or people who they've screwed over in their goals, it's like Liberals calling all Conservatives ****s, or Conservatives calling Libs borderline Commies, its just party loyalty bull****, and doesn't really have any basis on who the people in the party actually are.

TIM told you to go pick up a bunch of aliens, when you ****ed about it to Miranda and Jacob, they both had a huge "What the hell are you talking about" speech, and pointed out Cerberus doesn't hate aliens, they just want to protect humanity with their limited resources, Kelly, the Engineers, Joker, all of them talk about how they actually like aliens, NOBODY IN CERBERUS SAYS OR EVEN MENTIONS ITS AN ANTI-ALIEN ORGANIZATION, JUST THAT ITS PRO-HUMAN.

To use an example here, I like dogs, I am pro-dog, however, that does not immediatly mean I want to commit mass genocide against all cats, I like cats to, just not as much as dogs, being pro something does not mean you are inherently racist against everyone else, and that you want to enslave and kill them.

Modifié par Default137, 05 février 2010 - 07:10 .

[Myrmedus]

Caz Neerg wrote...

Eumerin wrote...

Caz Neerg wrote...

When do they ever *recklessly* endanger lives?  They engaged in controlled experiments on remote backwater worlds.  As for a moral compass, when you are in a fight for the survival of life itself, not having one is a good thing.  What is the point of being "Right" if it results in everyone being dead?

Yes, murdering every man, woman, and child in the colony of Akuze with thresher maws was okay because it was a controlled experiment.

You need to check your moral compass.

There is no evidence that Cerberus had anything to do with the disappearance/death of the colonists.  We only know that they set the the Thresher Maws on the Alliance squad that came to investigate.  If Cerberus had set the Threshers on the colonists, they wouldn't have needed the Marines.  Do we even know for sure that there really were colonists, and not just a Cerberus front set up to make the distress call convincing?

You seem forget that the experiments on Akuze were done long before knowledge of the Reaper threat, so Cerberus wasn't doing them in response to a threat to galactic civilization but purely for spectulative gain.

I chose to preserve the Collector Base, I chose to stick with TIM, but you can not deny that Cerberus' concept of morality is warped at best and completely vacant at worst.

[Malanthor]

If i were shephered id hunt down the illusive man and blow him away alongside all hes ragtag corrupt organication once and for all.

He and hes organication is nothing but trash.

[EG NeoMorph]

Default137 wrote...


The "accident" was caused while Cerberus was working with the Alliance.

At this time, the Alliance controlled Cerberus.

And they killed billions

While a Alliance group

And the Illusive Man was a government agent

There was no fallout, meaning the Alliance ordered it

Then the Alliance took the kids to experiment on.

Alliance plan -> Alliance plan -> Alliance plan -> Illusive Man deciding it would be good for his organizations goals to have some of those brats on board. There is also the fact that the Alliance has had many other "industrial ship" incidents over their colonies, all of which involved EeZo, and many of which killed thousands of colonists, this was long after Cerberus had left the Alliance however.

And again, have any of you listened to ANY Cerberus personal? The only people in the game that say that Cerberus are racist, and want to dominate the other races are Alliancemembers, or people who they've screwed over in their goals, it's like Liberals calling all Conservatives ****s, or Conservatives calling Libs borderline Commies, its just party loyalty bull****, and doesn't really have any basis on who the people in the party actually are.

TIM told you to go pick up a bunch of aliens, when you ****ed about it to Miranda and Jacob, they both had a huge "What the hell are you talking about" speech, and pointed out Cerberus doesn't hate aliens, they just want to protect humanity with their limited resources, Kelly, the Engineers, Joker, all of them talk about how they actually like aliens, NOBODY IN CERBERUS SAYS OR EVEN MENTIONS ITS AN ANTI-ALIEN ORGANIZATION, JUST THAT ITS PRO-HUMAN.

To use an example here, I like dogs, I am pro-dog, however, that does not immediatly mean I want to commit mass genocide against all cats, I like cats to, just not as much as dogs, being pro something does not mean you are inherently racist against everyone else, and that you want to enslave and kill them.

Nope... totally wrong.

The reason the Alliiance haven't pressed the issue is that they are pretty much embarrassed that they supported Cerberus in the first place and then they went rogue and were found to have done all these sick things. That dog and cat example doesn't would be better to say that you are prepared to kill loads of cats to make life better for dogs and you are prepared to sacrifice loads of dogs to make life better for the rest of the dogs.

Cerberus ARE the ultimate in racists... Just read what Cerberus did just to get a single biotic girl... they were willing to kill over 600 Quarians just for that one girl. Cerberus are like the ****s... They want their "Master Race" to grind the rest of the universe under the boot heel of the Human Race.

Oh and Miranda has a twisted view of Cerberus yet even she goes against TIM right at the end (at least she did in my playthrough).

Anyone heard the term "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely?".... That could be put for the description of TIM. Anyone who thinks "The ends justify the means" has lost their link to their humanity.

[spurge11]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

I agree, I was angry at the council and the Alliance for not doing anything about the Collectors. All they did was denying everything. I liked working for Cerberus but that doesn't mean I liked them. The Ilusive man is out of his mind, how could he want to take that base back. It's Reaper tech and anyone that gets involved with that always ends up as a husk, dead or indoctrinated. Besides it's basically a Reaper factory, for all we know he would probably start kidnapping Turians or Salarians to start making his own Reaper. He's nuts, and he is mysterious, I've heard that he was alive when the Mars ruins where discovered. Anyone that has lived that long must have had something put into their bodies and not just regular implants. Who knows what kind of alien technology he had installed into him?

60-70 years have passed since the discovery of the mars ruins humans can live up to 120 years...

[trigger2kill1]

TIM is for Humans just as long as they continue to serve his ends the very second that they rethink the situation he will drop them like a bad habbit. Timmy is not to be trusted any farther than to keep Shepard with up to date tech, which is why Tali, Mordin, Samara, possible Legion are so important they will see that the monitoring devices, and or viruses/bugs are delt with on a timely basis. The loyalty missions only serve to put a thorn in Timmy's backside cause Jackob and Miranda are on Shepards team now. I believe this through and through cause they are practical. You can't continue to make money if the world blows to hell and back. As I believe EDI is though that one remains to be seen. We all know that Zaeed goes only where the money is though also being practical if he isn't alive he won't be around to spend it. Jack dosen't give a hill of beans one way or another just so she is alive to continue to do her mischief. As far as lil ole Grunt goes well he got all he needs namely plenty of enemies and his name.

[Tamcia]

I bet in ME3, Cerberus/Illusive man (cause he IS cerberus) will want to control the reapers and enslave all races. Any humans opposing get turned into bio/metal liquid to create new reapers.



Cerberus is pro-human. I'm pro-balance in galaxy, not with plans for human domination of galaxy, with concentration camps for other races (thats what he wants the collector base for).



Cerberus views everyone else as tools. Humans are numbers on a spreadsheet. Did you read about the upcoming book? Reaper tech being implanted on a guy who saved his daughter from cerberus! I bet the moment shepahard would become useless (lets say after ME3 stopping reapers) he would kill him, because shepahard might interfere with his further work.



People are deceived if they think Cerberus really cares about humans. They are after tech. They want power. They want to be in control. What, you think after cerberus gains power, they will leave democracy in alliance systems? Everyone opposing them will disappear. Everywhere you will have listening devices/cameras, you say one wrong word, and your an experiment subject.



Just like Kaidan (in my case said) - maybe you feel grateful they brought you back to life.

[Lmaoboat]

From what I've taken from the game, Cerberus is actually run sentient piles of glowing sludge from the future. I know this to be an absolute fact, and nothing you can say will convince me otherwise.

[boogu168]

The Shelf wrote...

Oh, how I hate Cerberus!  Let me count the ways:

1. Cruelly experimented on sentient aliens.
2. I'm pretty sure Cerberus killed some really good people in ME1 to continue hiding said experiments.
3. Ruined the lives of countless human children (Kaidan, Jack, etc.)
4. Lured Ashley into a trap (he's lucky we weren't in the same room during that conversation).
5. Lured me and my entire crew into a trap (very lucky during that conversation too)

I'm sure there are other reasons, but these are the ones that spring to mind first.  Yeah, the only good thing TIM or Cerberus ever did was bring me back to life, but that won't excuse them from all the wrong they've done.

I'm Commander Shepard, and I'm going to bring you down, Cerberus.

YESH!!!!