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Who created a Gold Standard Build in ME1


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#1
ME2Shephard

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Ok so I was tinkering around through 100 hrs of gameplay and upon making my Soldier I found that this class in all essences can become gods in ME1. My Soldier can take down Geth Colossus's and Thresher Maws faster outside the MAKO than inside it. I believe that this build is worthy of a Gold Star seeing as how my damage protection is through the roof and for some reason, Husks are the only thing that give me trouble. Well here is the build. I would ask that you try it out because it was so much fun for me to annihilate Thresher Maws and Geth Colossus's not inside the MAKO.

LVL 60 Soldier class Build

Pistols: Max
Shotguns: Max
Assault Rifles: Max
Spectre Training: Max
Assualt Training: Max
Fitness: Max
Combat Armor: Max
Shock Trooper: Max
First Aid/ Barrier: 6 skill points
Intimidate: Max
Charm: Max

Charm/Intimidate i got maxed from many playthroughs on this campaign. There is no point in wasting skill points into them when 4 skill points are awarded to your character based on your Paragon/Renegade levels per play through. The build is designed to take heavy amounts of damage yet still deal it out. A Geth Colossus can't kill me while I have Immunity active. Nor can a Thresher Maw. They die too fast.

Now the Weapons and Armor.

Pistol: HMWP X
Assault Rifle: HMWA X
Shotgun: HMWSG X
Sniper Rifle: HMWSR X

Weapon Upgrades:
Frictionless Materials X
Inferno Rounds X
Scram Rail X

Grenade Upgrade
High Explosive X

Armor: Colossus X Heavy Armor

Armor Upgrades
2 Medical Exoskeleton

All the weapons use Frictionless Materials and Inferno Rounds because it adds a immense amount of Firepower and your weapons never over heat. Inferno Rounds Are good against both Synthetics and Organics. Everyone should be using the Spectre Gear at max level so I want go into that. Colossus X is strictly the best armor in the game on all fronts. High Damage Protection and High Shields. Let me know what guys think of this build and if you guys think you have a "Gold Star" build, post it. I'm interested in hearing.

Modifié par ME2Shephard, 04 février 2010 - 07:09 .


#2
Devos

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I think you mean "gold standard". If you are going for absolute optimization you're off in a few places.

Pistols: Max
Shotguns: Max
Assault Rifles: Max
Spectre Training: Max
Assualt Training: Max
Fitness: Max
Combat Armor: Max
Shock Trooper: Max
First Aid/ Barrier: 6 skill points
Intimidate: Max
Charm: Max


Assault Rifles are superfleous with pistols since pistols have the higher DPS. There are two point distributions I use with soldier:

Pistols - 12
Shotguns - 0
Assault Rifles - 7
Sniper Rifles - 12
Combat Armor - 12
Fitness - 12
Assault Training - 12
Spectre Training - 11
Soldier/Spec class - 12
Bonus Talent - 12

This distribution leaves out shotguns entirely because they are very rarely better than any other gun. AR points are only there to unlock sniper rifles but are also useful early game.

Pistols - 12
Shotguns - 12
Assault Rifles - 7
Sniper Rifles - 12
Combat Armor - 7
Fitness - 12
Assault Training - 12
Spectre Training - 4
Soldier/Spec class - 12
Bonus Talent - 12

This second build adds shotguns at a relatively minor hit to damage and defence.

If you wanted to tune up your build lose 5 points in AR and one in spectre training and boost your bonus talent to 12. Master Unity isn't a big deal with adrenaline burst to bypass the cool down.

As for Barrier as a bonus talent it's not great on a soldier, immunity is already more than enough protection. Warp is the old favourite, it's definitely better than barrier but I find it overrated. Singularity and Lift I have found to be best and both pretty good. Marginally I favour singularity. The reason they work so well is that they cover the soldiers lack of a fast disable. It's no good having a high DPS if you can't see your targets to shoot them. Singularity is the better because it pulls enemies out of cover where as lift doesn't. The advantage of lift is that it has a longer duration which matters since you don't have an amp.

As for Commando vs. Shock Trooper it's much of muchness. Commando's damage boost is much more useful than Shock Trooper's DR boost but Shock Trooper's Adrenaline Burst Specialization is better due to synergy with bonus talents.

All the weapons use Frictionless Materials and Inferno Rounds because it adds a immense amount of Firepower and your weapons never over heat. Inferno Rounds Are good against both Synthetics and Organics.


Frictionless Materials and a Rail Extension VII  gives decent suistainability of heat generation with all the guns. With Master Marksman on a pistol it actually cools faster than it heats. Inferno Rounds' DOT doesn't stack so at best it adds 21 DPS, which is around 3% damage boost give or take on each gun. Switching between Shredder and Tungsten VII's may be a PITA but gives the best results.

Modifié par Devos, 04 février 2010 - 06:35 .


#3
ME2Shephard

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Whoops. "Gold Standard" I meant. Well here is the thing. On Insanity I find myself using one of two weapons. The AR and the Shotgun. The shotgun is great against creatures like Thorian Creeper, the Rachni, and Husks. Carnage is really good as well once you get used to it. Now with my build I literally made Shepard into a tank. That why I went with DR over attack power because in most RPG's, defense wins. I think that still holds true here. The reason for maxing those stats out is because you still get an addition to Damage Resistance. Same with Spectre Training. You get increase in Damage, Health, and one other thing I can't recall at this moment. The Sniper Rifle.... Wasn't fun to play with at all. Thats why I never used it so I didn't waste points in it.



With the Bonus talent, I never found one I really enjoyed so I went with something to increase my Shields. Thats the only weak point on the character is its shields.



I forgot to mention that I was using Scram Rail X's. So I will go back and edit it now. Even with all that the characters weapons never over heat and I'm never worried about multiple enemies hitting attacking me. I guess to each his own for the ammo. I prefer Inferno because mainly of never having to switch between Shredder and Tungsten

#4
Devos

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The shotgun is great against creatures like Thorian Creeper, the Rachni, and Husks. Carnage is really good as well once you get used to it


Creepers to some extent. The others the pistol is more universally effective against. The pistol has enough stopping power to knock down husks. With the shotgun against Creepers the advantage is stopping power, the pistol will still kill them faster and even has the stopping power to drop them though slightly less reliably so is on net better even against creepers. Even the minor stopping power advantage is negated by CC powers, whether from your bonus talent or squad.

The sniper rifle lets you hit targets that are otherwise out of range so it adds something. Anything in shotgun range is already well within pistol range.

I've also come to the conclusion that carnage is fun but near totally useless. What highlighted it for me was playing a vanguard focused around Carnage (Singularity, Warp, Carnage). While there are a few occasions it works well (killing 8 husks in one shot) for the most part it's pointless and unreliable. When I started timing base raids I found I was getting really bad times on the vanguard. Out of curiosity I switched to using pistols, with a pistol skill of 6, giving just basic Marksman. Every single run with pistols was faster than my best time with shotguns.

Really the only advantage of shotguns is they can be the most fun weapon to use. That's not a an insignificant advantage but it's worth bearing in mind.

Now with my build I literally made Shepard into a tank. That why I went with DR over attack power because in most RPG's, defense wins. I think that still holds true here. The reason for maxing those stats out is because you still get an addition to Damage Resistance. Same with Spectre Training. You get increase in Damage, Health, and one other thing I can't recall at this moment.


ME1, Biotics wins. But defences are moot as soon as you have master immunity and colossus armor. Because of how defences stack other bonuses become diminishing returns. The whole concept of "gold standard" is about optimization. You can't max everything so minimise the cost of what you leave and maximise the benefit of what you take. Spectre training, while giving a variety of bonuses only gives a small bonus for the cost. I mean consider the damage bonus, 5% at 11 and 12. In practice Spectre Training 4 is usually worth while, 11-12 give a bit less than 3% for those extra 7 or 8 points. For every 30 odd bullets you fire you do the damage you would have done with 31 with Spectre Training 4. Most things, even on insanity take less than 30 hits to kill, in which case that 3% probably had zero impact since it took the same number of shots regardless. Against bigger things saving one bullet in 30 isn't great when you may have been able to spend those points else where. Or for the Shock Trooper DR bonus how often have you come so close to death and survived that the DR percentage made that difference? If a soldier dies it's because they've been stun locked so long immunity drops. The commando's bump in damage, while in practice no where near as impressive as it sounds (it's actually more like 15% relative to without on an otherwise identical set up) is enough that it makes a real difference. Neither innate bonus is that great but still Commando is the better of the two.

Going back to that point about stun locking deaths on a soldier, the best way to avoid them is use a CC power to prevent it from happening in the first place. This is part of the reason why Lift and Singularity are the best bonus talents. It gives you more of a chance to defend against attacks which are a real threat than just trying to numerically push up your defence stats. Even master barrier means you survive one or two more sniper or rocket hits when you could already survive 50 odd consecutive hits, an extra CC power can help you survive a room of biotics which would otherwise have stun locked you.

I prefer Inferno because mainly of never having to switch between Shredder and Tungsten


You are under estimating how big a difference they make. Wth the kind of damage bonus you are looking at with Inferno again it's questionable whether you will save a single shot and the accuracy hit to your target is a bit redundant against immunity. If you load one or the other up and never change it the advantage you get when it is in effect is big enough to more than make up the relatively minor bonus that inferno gives when it's the wrong type. Just switching to the ammo appropriate to the predominant type once per major plot world will make a big difference and isn't that much hassle. On your particular character you could load the different Ammo types into the AR and Pistol, the bonus for using the right ammo type is significantly larger than the DPS advantage of the pistol over the AR. I keep a second weapon of any type I loaded with mods which makes switching less hassle.

Modifié par Devos, 04 février 2010 - 08:46 .


#5
ME2Shephard

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I see your point on the on the ammo and will definitely give it a shot. It may be difficult to find but I will give the Tungsten and Shredder ammo's a chance. Like you said, its not that huge of a deal to switch between weapons.

The sniper rifle, like I said, I find to be inefficient because the character is a tank. I like being up close and peronal in the action. I agree that singularity would definitely help in this aspect so I will definitely try it out as well.

Modifié par ME2Shephard, 04 février 2010 - 09:53 .


#6
Devos

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It's kind of toma[A]to, toma[R]to with sniper rifle versus shotgun. I'd still argue sniper having the edge on optimality by adding function, but in practice preference dominates going for one or the other. It wouldn't even be that great a loss to lose every gun except pistols for optimization but where would the points go? Having dumped Sniper though I would consider losing points in AR altogether and putting them in first aid, since pistols do the same job better.



Still If you go singularity, try the retune I suggested, Spectre Training - 11, Assault Rifles - 7 (or first aid - 7) and get singularity to 12.

#7
kaff33nd

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Hang on, how did you get 126 points to spend? I'm sure I had 99 distributed at lvl 60.

#8
Devos

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kaff33nd wrote...

Hang on, how did you get 126 points to spend? I'm sure I had 99 distributed at lvl 60.


you start with 2 already spent, get 3 per level to 5 (15), 2 per level to 35 (60), 1 per level to 60 (25), 12 free charm for three plays and 12 free intimimidate. 126.

#9
Phaedra Sanguine

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So you maxed everything. I'm sure that was hard to come up with. ;P

#10
ME2Shephard

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Paxcorpus wrote...

So you maxed everything. I'm sure that was hard to come up with. ;P


I played the game many many times and figured that out. I didn't Max everything out. Its just you don't have to waste stat points into charm and intimidate because you can obtain 4 points of it in a play through depending on your paragon and renegade levels.

#11
aauxraydar

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Oh, I remember trying to create a gold standard build, It was horrible because in order to do it right you have to beat the game three times once as a renegade while exploiting the paragon glitch, then the Lorik Qui'in the next two and I just became so burned out on the game.

#12
Devos

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I think there is some misunderstanding of what a "gold standard build" is. It's not a character who has 12 free points of charm and/or intimidate. It's the template of points that gives something intended to be an optimal build for some meaningful interpretation of optimal. They're templates that don't spend points in charm or intimidate, not characters who have 12 in each. Pretty much every "gold standard" build has some where between 8 and 12 points they won't miss too much so you can make use of them in single play through and have a template on how to spend any more points.



Personally I don't even like the term "gold standard build" at all. It's a misnomer of the true meaning of the phrase and I think there is a better build for nearly every class and specialisation combination than the builds in the original gold standard threads.

#13
aauxraydar

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I did notice that on the thread I read that a gold standard build shouldn't mean "Best at insanity" and should focus on strength and different levels, what I'm working on is an adept/bastion/Sniper Rifle with max pistol and reduced barrier and stasis. The idea being that the adept gets most of its Damage Mitigation from cc and that increasing damage output at the expense of abilities I feel I can sacrifice would be of more benefit. Since the release of ME2 I was thinking of just cheating and speed running through the game so that persuade shouldn't be such an issue.

#14
Devos

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aauxraydar wrote...

I did notice that on the thread I read that a gold standard build shouldn't mean "Best at insanity" and should focus on strength and different levels,


The "Gold Standard" builds were meant to be the best vanilla builds as the standard by which other builds are compared. Not even the best vanilla builds for a given class, just the best vanilla builds in the game. So for example there wouldn't be a gold standard engineer because they can't compete with other builds. (something I actually disagree with). Personally I feel it's more valuable to try and do the best you can within a given criteria, it's worth having a set of solid builds for ideas or a starting point but in practice how people want to play is rarely the optimal way. On the flip side it gets on my nerves when people believe the way they played was optimal, because they would like it to be, contrary to evidence and then give out crappy advice. Shotgun and AR might be fun but they are still crappy.

what I'm working on is an adept/bastion/Sniper Rifle with max pistol
and reduced barrier and stasis. The idea being that the adept gets most
of its Damage Mitigation from cc and that increasing damage output at
the expense of abilities I feel I can sacrifice would be of more
benefit.


With Adepts go Pistol or Sniper. Bastion stasis is the Sniper Adept's best friend. If you want to max DPS just go with the pistol, you aren't really doing anything to improve damage by taking the sniper rifle.

Sniper Adept is actually my favourite adept to play, this is the build I run:

Sniper Rifles - 12
Basic Armor - 3
Throw - 12
Lift - 12
Warp - 12
Singularity - 12
Barrier - 7
Stasis - 12
Bastion - 12
Spectre Training - 8

The pistol adept is actually my preferred vanilla adept

Pistols - 12
Basic Armor - 5
Throw - 12
Lift - 12
Warp - 12
Singularity - 12
Barrier - 7
Stasis - 12
Bastion - 12
Spectre Training - 6

In contrast the best AR adept I've seen is...

Assault Rifles - 11
Basic Armor - 0
Throw - 12
Lift - 12
Warp - 12
Singularity - 12
Barrier - 7
Stasis - 12
Bastion - 12
Spectre Training - 12

So the AR adept has the slight advantage of Spectre Training 12 for Master Unity and a bit more of the synergy bonuses from it's innate bonuses to biotics. The pistol Adept, despite the slight hit to spectre training still has a higher DPS thanks to pistols edge over AR. In addition you gain the Barrier/shield boost combo which can be underrated.

If you are dead set on going Sniper and Pistols I would suggest this:

Pistols - 12
Sniper Rifles - 12
Basic Armor - 5
Throw - 8
Lift - 11
Warp - 7
Singularity - 12
Barrier - 7
Stasis - 12
Bastion - 12
Spectre Training - 4

For example dropping stasis to 6 points and having warp and lift at 12 instead might seem like a better deal but due to how biotic resistance seems to work on insanity the gain from master stasis is much bigger than it looks. The loss of master Warp really isn't that big a deal and losing master lift might seem bad but you don't really need it: to hit areas you have singularity, to deal with tougher enemies stasis and you still have lift at 11. Personally though I think having Pistols and SR on an Adept is an unhappy medium, it's better than the pure sniper adept because you have a pistol but it's at the expense of biotics, while you aren't using the pistol, it's worse. It's worse than the pure pistol adept because the advantage of the SR doesn't come anywhere near justifying the 12 points it costs. The only reason to choose it over the straight pistol build is because you want to use the sniper rifle, in which case the pure sniper does that better. The nice thing about sniper rifles on a Bastion is that usually they are akward to use at short ranges but adept can counter balance that with CC (particularly stasis) to make point blank sniping useful.

Since the release of ME2 I was thinking of just cheating and
speed running through the game so that persuade shouldn't be such an
issue.


Or care less about the Charm/Intimidate options. If it's for a quick import, play on casual, put points into charm or intimidate. The only reason to care about making a solid ME1 character is to play ME1. They're different enough games that it is still worth while.

#15
aauxraydar

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Yeah, it is pretty silly to try and make a fancy build when your cheating and only for a quick import. I'll probably go with the sniper as I don't feel like it's cheating to use the tactical hud glitch because I actually found that one by myself, and using it makes snipers so over powered. I only wanted pistol plus snipers because I'd have the best guns in the game.

I don't find master assassination very useful, as even without the Hud glitch it still one shot most things on the difficulties I recall playing at well enough that I only used it for long range shots, so I myself would drop a point from sniper to grab master lift. I've never done insanity with an adept so if you could help me out on that it would be nice.

On cheating though, I said you should cheat to level 60 just before the last battle if just for the long service bonuses, as the element zero alone will save you so much time scanning, even with a guide.

#16
Devos

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aauxraydar wrote...

I only wanted pistol plus snipers because I'd have the best guns in the game.


Both Infiltrators and Soldiers can get both without sacrificing anything useful. Sniper Rifles are only occasionally useful so if you are going for the perfect adept sacrificing biotics for the SR is a mistake (going for the SR at all is a mistake for that matter). If it's for the fun of using the SR with biotics why not forget about the pistol altogether? But hey, it's your character, your game, that's why I'm happy to help even if it's something I wouldn't do.

I don't find master assassination very useful, as even without the Hud glitch it still one shot most things on the difficulties I recall playing at well enough that I only used it for long range shots, so I myself would drop a point from sniper to grab master lift. I've never done insanity with an adept so if you could help me out on that it would be nice.


Even on Insanity a lot of standard enemies will fall to a single Advanced Assassination shot but enemies that can survive even Master Assassination are pretty common too. Master lift is useful but when you can pretty much lock a Thresher Maw with stasis it is much less important than it would otherwise be. Losing master lift on a Vanguard or a Nemesis Adept is a big deal, Bastion, not so much. That's why I suggest Master Assassination, besides having already sacraficed so much biotics it seems a waste to not finish it off. But the pure sniper route removes the dilemma altogether.

Modifié par Devos, 10 février 2010 - 10:02 .